₦airaland Forum

LarryBee1k:
I'm not living in Lagos.

Thanks. You’ve been very helpful

Guestlander:
You have left the substance of the discussion to harp on inanity. Just kindly tell us where and when the Chinese took over another country because of some unpaid debt.

China lends u money to buy their goods and to let them build for u. In building they riddle it with spyware which puts u at their mercy - a win-win-win situation for them!

CanadaOrBust:
Not true. US debt is 22 trillion. China is owed 1.1 trillion
Bluejayy, Banty, temple1288, jubrinelsudan

You have to also understand that most of these loans between these powerful economies are non-collateralized. Which means that even if. any of them defaults on their loan payments, the other guy can't really do anything about it due to the agreement and terms. They may just stop giving out the loans.

This is not the case with Nigeria.

BLUEJAYY:
You have to also understand that most of these loans between these powerful economies are non-collateralized. Which means that even if. any of them defaults on their loan payments, the other guy can't really do anything about it due to the agreement and terms. They may just stop giving out the loans.

This is not the case with Nigeria.

Yeah, this guy summarized it well:

Unlike Africa countries, US don’t go and borrow money, all US debts are paper debts.
US simply create treasury notes, then go to the market and sell the notes. Note holders get paid interest and when they are tired of holding the notes, they go into the same market and sell them to another individual

CanadaOrBust:
Not true. US debt is 22 trillion. China is owed 1.1 trillion
Bluejayy, Banty, temple1288, jubrinelsudan

Despite the debt, America is still mounting pressure on China's economy doesn't that show you that African type of borrowing is different and don't be surprised if they signed some shîtty papers on how Africans will be you used as collateral.

.

.

Temple1288:
Despite the debt, America is still mounting pressure on China's economy doesn't that show you that African type of borrowing is different and don't be surprised if they signed some shîtty papers on how Africans will be you used as collateral.

Word.
Funny how people seem to always defend where they live EXCEPT we living in Naija

CanadaOrBust:
Not true. US debt is 22 trillion. China is owed 1.1 trillion
Bluejayy, Banty, temple1288, jubrinelsudan

Almost 30% of sovereign debt (or treasuries)...
>

BLUEJAYY:
You have to also understand that most of these loans between these powerful economies are non-collateralized. Which means that even if. any of them defaults on their loan payments, the other guy can't really do anything about it due to the agreement and terms. They may just stop giving out the loans.

This is not the case with Nigeria.

Substantively no different from any sovereign debt...
When many countries defaulted in the 1980s/90s, what happened?

With few exceptions, there are two basic options with sovereign debt default...
Blacklist the country and/or rescheduled/restructure (or even sell off) their debt.
>

Temple1288:
Despite the debt, America is still mounting pressure on China's economy doesn't that show you that African type of borrowing is different and don't be surprised if they signed some shîtty papers on how Africans will be you used as collateral.

The US is not only the world’s biggest debtor but also the biggest market...
China (as with most countries with intelligent leadership) is playing the LONG game. Tantrums and ego is for Nairalanders.
>

CanadaOrBust:
Interest what. I am talking of the popular $100 bill American money

In that case, it’s even more irrelevant to the discourse at hand...
>

bro4u:
From the write-up they are actually warning us from taking Chinese loans, lols which looks like a cry from a drowning nation because nations no longer go to the US for loans but now opt for the Chinese. Hypocrites, they won't tell you they are the biggest debtor in the world.

Plz write only sensible stuffs cuz ppl are reading...the US does not grant loans instead sh gives grants....they are only warining you cuz they may never be able to free you fom china's slavery.....

9jaRealist:
Almost 30% of sovereign debt (or treasuries)...
>

Boss USA sovereign debt is about $22 trillion. Out of which about 1 trillion is owed to China and about 1 trillion to Japan. See below.
(BTW how come Japan doesn’t make noise like China)

9jaRealist:
In that case, it’s even more irrelevant to the discourse at hand...
>

So it is irrelevant that China has to buy dollars to be able to trade internationally? If she wishes, how long do U think it will take US to print enough $100 bills to liquidate her debt to China?!

9jaRealist:
The US is not only the world’s biggest debtor but also the biggest market...
China (as with most countries with intelligent leadership) is playing the LONG game. Tantrums and ego is for Nairalanders.
>

Even if u r financially illiterate, use your common sense:
Trump is waging trade war against China, banning their companies, imposing tariffs on their products. If all debt is same as u imply, why doesn’t China say: “Ok, give us back our $1 trillion”. Think.

CanadaOrBust:
Even if u r financially illiterate, use your common sense:
Trump is waging trade war against China, banning their companies, imposing tariffs on their products. If all debt is same as u imply, why doesn’t China say: “Ok, give us back our $1 trillion”. Think.

You mean like China has told all African countries “Ok, give us back our $billions”?
You drivel on about “common sense” and financial literacy, and yet do not seem to grasp the basics about how sovereign debt works.

Meanwhile, China is also placing tariffs on US goods (while lowering same for competing goods from the EU and other countries), excluding the US from entire sectors, limiting what several US companies (such as Google or Facebook) can do in China. Just because Dotard Trump stumbles from one idiocy to the next - pulling out of the Paris Climate Change Accord, the Iran nuclear deal, etc. - does not change basics.
>

CanadaOrBust:
Even if u r financially illiterate, use your common sense:
Trump is waging trade war against China, banning their companies, imposing tariffs on their products. If all debt is same as u imply, why doesn’t China say: “Ok, give us back our $1 trillion”. Think.

Meanwhile, just in case your memory needs refreshing...
Here’s what I actually wrote - it’s a distinction with a DIFFERENCE!

9jaRealist:
Debt is debt...
It may come in several forms, but it still means the same thing - you OWE money.

Treasury bills are not just “paper”, they are PROMISSORY NOTES...
The not only pay interest, but they ultimately have to be redeemed!
>

9jaRealist:
You mean like China has told all African countries “Ok, give us back our $billions”?
You drivel on about “common sense” and financial literacy, and yet do not seem to grasp the basics about how sovereign debt works.

Meanwhile, China is also placing tariffs on US goods (while lowering same for competing goods from the EU and other countries), excluding the US from entire sectors, limiting what several US companies (such as Google or Facebook) can do in China. Just because Dotard Trump stumbles from one idiocy to the next - pulling out of the Paris Climate Change Accord, the Iran nuclear deal, etc. - does not change basics.
>

Google clearly defined sovereign debt for you. It means national debt and US has $22 trillion. Stop making a fool of yourself.
African countries are not waging a trade war against China. Stop making a fool of yourself.
US is the only one that owes China $1Trillion. Is US behaving like a country that owes China anything? Is that how someone behaves when they owe u money?
Quit making a fool of yourself

9jaRealist:
Meanwhile, just in case your memory needs refreshing...
Here’s what I actually wrote - it’s a distinction with a DIFFERENCE!

Do you know the meaning of the word “IMPLY”?
In actuality US owes China nothing. If China chooses they can easily sell those papers and people will snap them up. They choose not to.
Meanwhile here is education for you:
Do you know that anybody that owns US dollars is in debt to the Federal Reserve? That $100 bill in your pocket means u owe $100 yet u see it as meaning u have $100. Read what’s written on it - that u promise to pay the US Fedral Reserve $100 on demand. So my friend there are debts then there are “debts”. Educate yourself.

CanadaOrBust:
Google clearly defined sovereign debt for you. It means national debt and US has $22 trillion. Stop making a fool of yourself.
African countries are not waging a trade war against China. Stop making a fool of yourself.
US is the only one that owes China $1Trillion. Is US behaving like a country that owes China anything? Is that how someone behaves when they owe u money?
Quit making a fool of yourself

Huh?! What are you blathering on about?
What does tariffs and trade war (that YOU raised nonetheless) have to do with the definition of sovereign debt? Are you OK?!

Meanwhile this discourse is obviously about foreign debt, same as with foreign the African/Nigerian debt that generated the discourse.
>

CanadaOrBust:
Do you know the meaning of the word “IMPLY”?
In actuality US owes China nothing. If China chooses they can easily sell those papers and people will snap them up. They choose not to.
Meanwhile here is education for you:
Do you know that anybody that owns US dollars is in debt to the Federal Reserve? That $100 bill in your pocket means u owe $100 yet u see it as meaning u have $100. Read what’s written on it - that u promise to pay the US Fedral Reserve $100 on demand. So my friend there are debts then there are “debts”. Educate yourself.

Yes I do, which is why I know that's NOT what my post "implied"...
The SPECIFICATION "in several forms" means exactly the OPPOSITE of your (mis)understanding - it means NOT the same type!

Perhaps you should your on counsel and "educate yourself"...
Meanwhile, even though this is Nairaland, some of you really need to become circumspect with words. SMH
>

CanadaOrBust:
Do you know the meaning of the word “IMPLY”?
In actuality US owes China nothing. If China chooses they can easily sell those papers and people will snap them up. They choose not to.
Meanwhile here is education for you:
Do you know that anybody that owns US dollars is in debt to the Federal Reserve? That $100 bill in your pocket means u owe $100 yet u see it as meaning u have $100. Read what’s written on it - that u promise to pay the US Fedral Reserve $100 on demand. So my friend there are debts then there are “debts”. Educate yourself.

Another irrelevancy...

It's a good thing you are using this discourse as a LEARNING opportunity...
But frankly not everything that you stumble upon on Google is relevant hereto.
>

Meanwhile...

budaatum:
A large chunk of US debt is China too. About $1.12 trillion as of March 2019, that's 28% of the $4.07 trillion!

Now, do that analysis you done above again and lets see.

>

9jaRealist:
Huh?! What are you blathering on about?
What does tariffs and trade war (that YOU raised nonetheless) have to do with the definition of sovereign debt? Are you OK?!

Meanwhile this discourse is obviously about foreign debt, same as with foreign the African/Nigerian debt that generated the discourse.
>

Sorry about telling u to stop making a fool of yourself just that u simply refuse to acknowledge u have no argument whatsoever.

YOU WERE WRONG when u said China holds 30% of US sovereign debt. Accept that and move on. It is not life or death

You obviously missed this my post. Here it is again below. Read it carefully and stop making baseless arguments.

The perception throughout the world is that debt issued by the U.S. Treasury is virtually free of credit risk, meaning that the world assumes that the U.S. will never default on its debt. There are not many investments like that. Which makes it very easy for China or anybody else to easily sell such debt if they wish to - there are never shortage of buyers.

9jaRealist:
Yes I do, which is why I know that's NOT what my post "implied"...
The SPECIFICATION "in several forms" means exactly the OPPOSITE of your (mis)understanding - it means NOT the same type!

Perhaps you should your on counsel and "educate yourself"...
Meanwhile, even though this is Nairaland, some of you really need to become circumspect with words. SMH
>

Ok genius, what does your statement “debt is debt” imply?
If u notice I’ve been quite polite all this while till your unwillingness to concede obvious defeat had me frustrated.

9jaRealist:
Another irrelevancy...

It's a good thing you are using this discourse as a LEARNING opportunity...
But frankly not everything that you stumble upon on Google is relevant hereto.
>

How is that irrelevant in trying to teach u that some debts are not truly debts.

CanadaOrBust:
Sorry about telling u to stop making a fool of yourself just that u simply refuse to acknowledge u have no argument whatsoever.

YOU WERE WRONG when u said China holds 30% of US sovereign debt. Accept that and move on. It is not life or death

You obviously missed this my post. Here it is again below. Read it carefully and stop making baseless arguments.

The perception throughout the world is that debt issued by the U.S. Treasury is virtually free of credit risk, meaning that the world assumes that the U.S. will never default on its debt. There are not many investments like that. Which makes it very easy for China or anybody else to easily sell such debt if they wish to - there are never shortage of buyers.

Not wrong, because we are discussing foreign debt...
And even US domestic debt is not classified as "US debt" (because some of that is held by the govt itself).

Quit chasing shadows in derogation of substance...
However you define "sovereign debt", China remains the US biggest foreign creditor!

And what does the perception of US treasuries as virtually risk-free has to do with whether it is debt or not?
>

CanadaOrBust:
Ok genius, what does your statement “debt is debt” imply?
If u notice I’ve been quite polite all this while till your unwillingness to concede obvious defeat had me frustrated.

It's right there before your eyes in Plain English...

9jaRealist:
Debt is debt...
It may come in several forms, but it still means the same thing - you OWE money.

>

9jaRealist:
Not wrong, because we are discussing foreign debt...
And even US domestic debt is not classified as "US debt" (because some of that is held by the govt itself).

Quit chasing shadows in derogation of substance...
However you define "sovereign debt", China remains the US biggest foreign creditor!

And what does the perception of US treasuries as virtually risk-free has to do with whether it is debt or not?
>

Stop splitting hairs. us SOVEREIGN debt is 22T. China is owed 1.12T . Japan is your owed 1.08T
Those are the facts. Your statement was wrong. Accept it and move on

9jaRealist:
It's right there before your eyes in Plain English...


>

But I just demonstrated to u that u r wrong! Not all debts mean you owe money. Not all debt is truly debt. How stubborn can a guy be!

Sri Lanka formally handed over commercial activities in its main southern port in the town of Hambantota to a Chinese company in 2017 as part of a plan to convert $6 billion of loans that Sri Lanka owes China into equity.

U.S. officials have warned that a strategic port in the tiny Horn of Africa nation of Djibouti could be next, a prospect the government there has denied.

From 2000 to 2016, China loaned around $125 billion to the continent, according to data from the China-Africa Research Initiative at Washington’s Johns Hopkins University School of Advanced International Studies.

bro4u:
From the write-up they are actually warning us from taking Chinese loans, lols which looks like a cry from a drowning nation because nations no longer go to the US for loans but now opt for the Chinese. Hypocrites, they won't tell you they are the biggest debtor in the world.