₦airaland Forum

TAO11:
You personally don't have to be a speaker.

My point is simple.

If Aworis are one of Edo clans as you claimed (contrary to all facts and common sense); then the etymology of the word itself (i.e. "Awori" ) should be from Edo language.

And if you can't reply the Awori greeting, you should at least be able to find a Bini source which does or at least one person from your enclave of Bini propagandist who can help you out.

Should I disregard what my history is showing in Igodomigodo and what your Oba of Lagos assert.

Or take what you are saying, what do you know, when were you born.

Atigba:
Go and ask any Ilaje elder where his ancestors came from and come back to me.

I wont discuss lagos with you, except you are ignorant you should be aware we once run that city. Eko is our name camp. We used it to camp slaves and sell to the white men.

As for Ekiti. Ado Ekiti mean Edo children in Ekiti

Prince Ado is the name of the first Oba of benin (Eweka). The name Orominyan gave him.

Edo mean Ado.

The bolded are not true. I am from Ado Ekiti
1.. Ado means `We settled down`
2..The Ewi of Ado Ekiti is a younger brother to the Oba of Benin
3..Both of them left Ife together but the Ewi parted ways with his elder brother at Ile-Ibinu (Benin)to establish present day Ado.
4..Many towns such as Agbado, Iluomoba etc were founded during the journey of the Ewi and his family to the present day Ado Ekiti.

Atigba:
There is no tribe called yoruba historically, it is a post colonial word. As I assert before, I don't want to write any derogatory words about the yorubas as I was banned before.

The yorubas as you know now is a conglomeration of tribes, which ours is one of them. Ondo, Ekiti and Lagos to be precise.

The aboriginal king of the so called yoruba is the Oba of Ugbo kingdom, he is the one Oduduwa meant in Ife.

I am not saying yoruba people came from benin, no what am saying is some of our children are now in south west and you guys are referring to them as yorubas.

Stop all these lame arguments!

There is no tribe called "Bini" prior to Oranmiyan, hence the people didn't exist prior to him?

There are no people called by the name of "Nigeria" before the British, hence the people didn't exist prior to them??

I hope you see how lame your argument is now!

MoneyMan5:
The Yoruba is a General Name for any tribe that traces their origin to Oduduwa and Obatala in Ile ife


Yoruba are descendants of Oduduwa and Obatala in Ile ife

In Yoruba we have both Obatala and Oduduwa descendants however if any tribe do not fit this narrative then it means they are not Yoruba

leave that idiot alone, his or her attempt to divide Yoruba has failed already.

MoneyMan5:
The Yoruba is a General Name for any tribe that traces their origin to Oduduwa and Obatala in Ile ife


Yoruba are descendants of Oduduwa and Obatala in Ile ife

In Yoruba we have both Obatala and Oduduwa descendants however if any tribe do not fit this narrative then it means they are not Yoruba

There is nothing like Yorubas descendant of cause there is Oduduwa descendants.

Yoruba is a new word

Ou tribes are living in your land which you are referring as yoruba.

They will be coming home soon

femixx:
[/b]
The bolded are not true. I am from Ado Ekiti
1.. Ado means `We settled down`
2..The Ewi of Ado Ekiti is a younger brother to the Oba of Benin
3..Both of them left Ife together but the Ewi parted ways with his elder brother at Ile-Ibinu (Benin)to establish present day Ado.
4..Many towns such as Agbado, Iluomoba etc were founded during the journey of the Ewi and his family to the present day Ado Ekiti.

Thank you oo.

I knocked him on that already. He is probably still in coma now. Lol!

Herdsmenson:
don't mind that dude, he's not even Benin.

Lol

Atigba:
You just confuse yourself and type rubbish. You claimed Olugbo of Ugbo is not aboriginal king in yoruba and went further to assert he lost his throne to oduduwa.

How can he lost his throne if oduduwa did not meant him in Ife.

For your information the Olugbo of Ugbo palace is in existence till date. He is the Aborigines king in yoruba land. Oduduwa descendants are foreigners in your land

You know nothing

Olugbo of Ugbo ancestor Obatala lost the throne to Oduduwa


the only mistakes you are making is thinking that Yoruba only refer to Oduduwa descendants alone


Yoruba refer to both Oduduwa and Obatala descendants

Atigba:
There is nothing like Yorubas descendant of cause there is Oduduwa descendants.

Yoruba is a new word

[s]Ou tribes are living in your land which you are referring as yoruba.

They will be coming home soon[/s]

"Benin" is a new word which didn't exist prior to the Portuguese arrival.

So what then?

TAO11:
Stop all these lame arguments!

There is no tribe called "Bini" prior to Oranmiyan, hence the people didn't exist prior to him?

There are no people called by the name of "Nigeria" before the British, hence the people didn't exist prior to them??

I hope you see how lame such argument is now!

So you have refused to learn, the people you are calling bini are originally IDU who occupied the land of Igodomigodo.

It was the Portugueses that called them bini

TAO11:
"Benin" is a new word which didn't exist prior to the Portuguese arrival.

So what then?

We are on the same page, even as that benin still predate yoruba word.

The word benin came into existence 850 years ago.

Yoruba is not up to 200

Atigba:
Should I disregard what my history is showing in Igodomigodo and what your Oba of Lagos assert.

Or take what you are saying, what do you know, when were you born.

First you noted that you wouldn't take my words over your history. In reply to this I'd say:

Your history doesn't say any of what you've said here.

Provide me with any academic reference (by any Bini person) which is consistently recognized in the whole world as authoritative.

I have repeated this request for the umpteenth time.



Also, if you won't accept "MY" testimony on Benin history because I am not a Bini;

why then did you rush to put forward "Oba Akiolu's testimony on Awori" when he is not even an Awori (and never claimed to be one)??


[Although I have shown from a careful analysis that even the words you've attributed to Oba Akiolu on Awori are not his, but rather the words of an Edo man whose name is Gabriel OMOHINMIN]

Atigba:
We are on the same page, even as that benin still predate yoruba word.

The word benin came into existence 850 years ago.

Yoruba is not up to 200

"The point" is what I am asking.

Does THAT show that the people who identify with the word "Benin" are then more ancient than those who identify with the word "Yoruba"??

That's the idiocy I was pointing you to.

Moreover, the word "Yoruba" has long been around since at least 600 years ago.

The word "Yoruba" began as a supremacist ethnonym of the Great Oyo Empire --- from: "Oyo-Oba"; i.e. Oyo the king --- when Oyo began to gain military, political, and economic ascendancy over others starting from as early as the 1400s, but most likely earlier.

On the other hand, you lied about the word "Benin" being 850 years old.

The word "Benin" was first used by the Portuguese.

And the first Portuguese delegation to visit the Nigeria region was led by Jõao Afonso d'Aveiros in circa 1480 --- that is, some 539 years ago.

So, the word "Benin" is at most 539 years old, but most likely less than that.

So, regardless of how you look at it, you still ended up being stupid.



However, if you like to know, I can present you with a traditional account of the Edos themselves which claim that the autochthonous Edos are originally from Ile-Ife.

femixx:
[/b]
The bolded are not true. I am from Ado Ekiti
1.. Ado means `We settled down`
2..The Ewi of Ado Ekiti is a younger brother to the Oba of Benin
3..Both of them left Ife together but the Ewi parted ways with his elder brother at Ile-Ibinu (Benin)to establish present day Ado.
4..Many towns such as Agbado, Iluomoba etc were founded during the journey of the Ewi and his family to the present day Ado Ekiti.

You see how you show your ignorance, Orominyan came to Igodomigodo around 900 years ago, that time there was no single human being in Ondo and Ekiti state.

It is our children who fled from Orominyan invasion that set up Ondo and Ekiti.

You are been fair by saying that one of our son is ruling in Ekiti as Oba. Tell me if our children weren't living there why would Oba of benin put his son there to rule.

Same thing we did in Lagos, prince Ado

Atigba:
You see how you show your ignorance, Orominyan came to Igodomigodo around 900 years ago, that time there was no single human being in Ondo and Ekiti state.

It is our children who fled from Orominyan invasion that set up Ondo and Ekiti.

You are been fair by saying that one of our son is ruling in Ekiti as Oba. Tell me if our children weren't living there why would Oba of benin put his son there to rule.

Same thing we did in Lagos, prince Ado

Will you shut your non-sense which you spew around without evidence, proof or reason??

Under the sub-heading Yoruba Origins, the historian R. C. C. Law writes:


"The Yoruba occupies an extensive territory, embracing southwestern Nigeria and adjacent areas of Dahomey and Togo. They comprise several distinct sub-groups the most important being the Oyo in the north, the Ife, Ijesha, Ekiti and Ondo in the east, the Ijebu and Egba in the south, and Ketu in the west ... the various Yoruba sub-groups share a common language and culture ..."


see: R. C. C. Law, "The Heritage of Oduduwa: Traditional History and Political Propaganda among the Yoruba", The Journal of African History, Vol, 14, No. 2 (1973), p. 208.



**Please note that "Ketu" mentioned above is in today's Benin Republic.

TAO11:
The point is what I am asking.

Does THAT show that the people who identify with the word "Benin" are then more ancient than those who identify with the words "Yoruba"??

That's the idiocy I was pointing you to.



However, if you like to know, I can present you with a traditional account of the Edos themselves which claim that the asynchronous Edos are originally from Ile-Ife.

Benin is an ancient city , no argument about that. It is the cradle of civilisation of the whole south south, part of southwest and part of south east.

The people living in Igodomigodo/Benin are different from people from Ife. I think I should upload an interview with aboriginal king, the Olugbo of Ugbo here for you to know some secret about Ife. He is the one oduduwa meant in Ife. He even assert he has a link with us, which I don't know.

I cant really say between Igodomigodo/benin and Ife people who came into existence first. But we are different the only thing that link us is the guy who invade your land Oduduwa, his descendants Orominyan also came to invade our land overtime.

Edo people has nothing to do with Ife, except the Oba of benin who is a descendant of Orominyan.

Atigba:
So you have refused to learn, the people you are calling bini are originally IDU who occupied the land of Igodomigodo.

It was the Portugueses that called them bini

The same way the people you're calling Yoruba are originally OLUKUMI who "occupy an extensive territory embracing southwestern Nigeria and adjacent areas of Dahomey and Togo"

TAO11:
Will you shut your non-sense which you spew around without evidence, proof or reason??

Under the sub-heading Yoruba Origins, the historian R. C. C.Law writes:


"The Yoruba occupies an extensive territory, embracing southwestern Nigeria and adjacent areas if Dahomey and Togo. They comprise several distinct sub-groups the most important being the Oyo in the north, the Ife, Ijesha, Ekiti and Ondo in the east, the Ijebu and Egba in the south, and Ketu in the west... the various Yoruba sub-groups share a common language and culture ..."


see: R. C. C. Law, "The Heritage of Oduduwa: Traditional History and Political Propaganda among the Yoruba", The Journal of African History, Vol, 14, No. 2 (1973), p. 208.



Please note that "Ketu" mentioned above is in today's Benin Republic.

Lol, you are quoting one stupid book

You dont know your history

Atigba:
You see how you show your ignorance, Orominyan came to Igodomigodo around 900 years ago, that time there was no single human being in Ondo and Ekiti state.

It is our children who fled from Orominyan invasion that set up Ondo and Ekiti.

You are been fair by saying that one of our son is ruling in Ekiti as Oba. Tell me if our children weren't living there why would Oba of benin put his son there to rule.

Same thing we did in Lagos, prince Ado

Sir, while not trying to join issues with you, because I can perceive your limit of intellectual capacity to understand simple and straight forward statements, I will like that you try to have an open mind about issues.

TAO11:
The same way the people you're calling Yoruba are originally OLUKUMI who "occupy an extensive territory embracing southwestern Nigeria and adjacent areas of Dahomey and Togo"

You have benin blood, you can keep denying your history and refused to learn. Those that have ear let them hear.

Am only here to pass a message, I have meant so many yorubas who 100 percent agreed with me that they are from Benin.

Atigba:
Lol, you are quoting one stupid book

You dont know your history

A peer-reviewed academic Journal of African History a "stupid book"?? Lol

A way by which an ignoramous concedes defeat and finds his place.

Like Amujale will say, now jog along


Please be reminded that you didn't cite even one book all along.

Your "evidence" lies in your wishful thinking. You make it up, and then you say it out.


More like, I don't care whether historians and experts
(who have studied it all their life) agree with me. Lol

Atigba:
You have benin blood, you can keep denying your history and refused to learn. Those that have ear let them hear.

Am only here to pass a message, I have meant so many yorubas who 100 percent agreed with me that they are from Benin.

Cite experts and scholars. He says "NO"

He instead insists, I will only cite unverifiable and unsubstantiated "many Yorubas (whom I have met) who 100 percent agreed with me"

Lol

You're the personification of "JOKE"

And then he became a preacher who after been hit by hard facts (and being bereft of any substantial and verifiable reference/evidence) begs that I should accept what he is saying for my own good.

Lol

Isn't he a joke??

TAO11:
A peer-reviewed academic Journal of African History a "stupid book"?? Lol

A way by which an ignoramous concedes defeat an finds his place.

Like Amujale will say, now jog along


Please be reminded that you didn't cite even one book all along.

Your "evidence" lies in your wishful thinking. You make it up, and then you say it out.


More like, I don't care whether historians and experts
(who have studied it all their life) agree with me. Lol

Peer reviewed nonsense

For your information every articles or books you read, the writer has an agenda. I just published an article in one of the accounting journals few weeks ago. I have a particular reason why I did it, and an audience i was trying to communicate to.

Generally, you have always read that the benin people went to Ife to ask for someone to rule them, oduduwa now gave them one of his son Orominyan. That is a lie

You are probably hearing this for the first time, what actually happened is he brought war to the land Igodomigodo.

The people who were telling and writing those stories did not want to cause tribal war or hate. But we the Ogisos know the truth.

Again, every writer has an agenda

femixx:
Sir, while not trying to join issues with you, because I can perceive your limit of intellectual capacity to understand simple and straight forward statements, I will like that you try to have an open mind about issues.

Which open again, I am telling you guys what you dont know. I am not here to prove tribal superiority.

Atigba:
Benin is an ancient city , no argument about that. It is the cradle of civilisation of the whole south south, part of southwest and part of south east.

The people living in Igodomigodo/Benin are different from people from Ife. I think I should upload an interview with aboriginal king, the Olugbo of Ugbo here for you to know some secret about Ife. He is the one oduduwa meant in Ife. He even assert he has a link with us, which I don't know.

I cant really say between Igodomigodo/benin and Ife people who came into existence first. But we are different the only thing that link us is the guy who invade your land Oduduwa, his descendants Orominyan also came to invade our land overtime.

Edo people has nothing to do with Ife, except the Oba of benin who is a descendant of Orominyan.

Did you really say that Benin is the cradle of civilization for the Yorubas??

Are you kidding me now?? Lol


Did you not know that the PRIMARY "invention" (i.e. IRON PRODUCTION and BRONZE CASTING) through which many cultures in the southern Nigeria region (including the Binis) became civilized was "invented by the Yorubas??

In Yorubaland, evidence of ancient IRON PRODUCTION have been found in Ife-Ijumu, among other ancient iron working sites found and dated in Yorubaland.

This archaeological site at Ife-Ijumu has been dated to c. 160 C.E.

Please name me one ancient iron working site found in Benin Kingdom (if any) which is even somewhat close to (let alone earlier than) the foregoing one at Ife-jumu. Lol.


On BRONZE CASTING, Margaret Plass an academic and expert on Ife-Benin relationship admits in the article entitled "The Art of Benin: An Evaluation Based on Discussions with William Fagg" that:


" ... the early Oba Oguola --- supposed to have reigned about A.D. 1280 --- applied to his spiritual OVERLORD, the Ooni of Ife, for the service of a bronze founder to teach his people to make memorial bronzes formerly imported from Ife that they might be made in Benin."


Why do you think Ile-Ife till date has the ethnonym "Ibi Ojumo Ti Mo Wa" (lit. "The Place From Where the First Dawn Came" ) since ancient times??

This ethnonym of Ife is well known throughout Yorubaland till date. In fact, it is also well known (as an ethnonym of Ife) even in ancient Benin Kingdom until as late as the 1920s when Eweka the 2nd reigned in Benin.

Although, this ethnonym of Ife later came to be misunderstood and thus erroneously interpreted literally; i.e., "The Place from which The Day's Sunlight is First Observed".


But reality is that the ethnonym was not originally and literally about Sunlight, but rather about Civilization.


Ile-Ife is known throughout Yorubaland, and was also known in ancient Benin as the place from which civilization came.

A daily morning devotion of Oba Eweka the 2nd (as documented by Ward-Price during his visit to the king in the 1920s) contains a hint of this fact.

cc: 2fine2fast

TAO11:
Did you say that Benin is the cradle of civilization for the Yorubas

Are you kidding me now?? Lol


What civilization (other than IRON production, and BRONZE casting) if I may ask??

Did you know where these techniques we're invented??

They were invented by the Yorubas and introduced to other parts of southern Nigeria including Benin Kingdom.

Margaret Plass an academi and expert on Ife-Benin relationship admits in the article entitled "The Art of Benin:An Evaluation Based on Discussions with William Fagg" that:


"... the early Oba Oguola --- supposed to have reigned about A.D. 1280 --- applied to his spiritual OVERLORD, the Ooni of Ife, for the service of a bronze founder to teach his people to make memorial bronzes formerly imported from Ife that they might be made in Benin."

In Yorubaland, evidence if ancient iron works have been found in Ife-jumu, dated to c. 160 C.E, among other sits diaciered by archaeoloists


Why do you think Ife has the ethnonym Ibi Ojumo Ti Mo Wa (lit. The Place From Where the First Dawn Came) since ancient times??

--- An ethnonym by which it was known even in Benin Kingdom till as recent as around the 1920s when Eweka the 2nd reigned in Benin.

Read again, I said part of yoruba, ekiti, ondo and lagos.

Part of south east and the whole of south south.

I will open a thread soon to unite Igodomigodo children world wide. There you can see all the children of Igodomigodo.

Atigba:
Peer reviewed nonsense

For your information every articles or books you read, the writer has an agenda. I just published an article in one of the accounting journals few weeks ago. I have a particular reason why I did it, and an audience i was trying to communicate to.

Generally, you have always read that the benin people went to Ife to ask for someone to rule them, oduduwa now gave them one of his son Orominyan. That is a lie

You are probably hearing this for the first time, what actually happened is he brought war to the land Igodomigodo.

The people who were telling and writing those stories did not want to cause tribal war or hate. But we the Ogisos know the truth.

Again, every writer has an agenda

Yes, R. C.C. Law (as well as the enclave of other world-leading historians who peer-reviewed the article before it's publication in the prestigious Journal of African History) all have the agenda of elevating the Yorubas and surpressing the Bins because of R. C. C. Law et al.'s Yoruba ancestry??

Lol

Atigba:
Read again, I said part of yoruba, ekiti, ondo and lagos.

Part of south east and the whole of south south.

I will open a thread soon to unite Igodomigodo children world, there you can see all the children of Igodomigodo.

Yes, you make claims a lot.

But what you fail to realize is the difference between making a claim and proving the claim.

You haven't proven any single one of your claims.

Any Tom, Dick, and Harry on Nairaland can make any nonsensical claim without bothering to provide evidence or proof.

TAO11:
Yes, R. C.C. Law (as well as the enclave of African historians who peer-reviewed i) have the agenda of elevating the Yorubas and surpressing the Bins because of their Yoruba ancestry??

Lol

Go and carry out the assignment I gave to you and stop the argument.

What is your age sef

TAO11:
Yes, you make claims a lot.

But what you fail to realize is the difference between making a claim and proving the claim.

You haven't proving any single one of your claims.

Anyone Tom, Dick, and Harry on Nairaland can make any nonsensical claim without bothering to provide evidence or proof.

I'm not just any body here, my ancestors sent me here to do some work. I will start soon, you can follow me because you are one of Igodomigodo descendant.

Atigba:
Benin is an ancient city , no argument about that. It is the cradle of civilisation of the whole south south, part of southwest and part of south east.

The people living in Igodomigodo/Benin are different from people from Ife. I think I should upload an interview with aboriginal king, the Olugbo of Ugbo here for you to know some secret about Ife. He is the one oduduwa meant in Ife. He even assert he has a link with us, which I don't know.

I cant really say between Igodomigodo/benin and Ife people who came into existence first. But we are different the only thing that link us is the guy who invade your land Oduduwa, his descendants Orominyan also came to invade our land overtime.

Edo people has nothing to do with Ife, except the Oba of benin who is a descendant of Orominyan.

Having disproven your unsubstantiated argument (that civilization came to Ife kingdom from Benin kingdom) and having shown the opposite to be the case;

consider also the hard fact that archaeological excavations at a rock shelter at Iwo Eleru (Yoruba land) have yielded valuable information about the Yoruba people.

The human bones found at Iwo Eleru are dated to circa 7,000 BCE.

Please name me one human remains from Benin kingdom which is older. Lol

There is actually none because the Iwo Eleru human bones are the oldest human remains found yet in the whole of West Africa.

I hope you now know who is more ancient. Lol

Atigba:
Benin is an ancient city , no argument about that. It is the cradle of civilisation of the whole south south, part of southwest and part of south east.

The people living in Igodomigodo/Benin are different from people from Ife. I think I should upload an interview with aboriginal king, the Olugbo of Ugbo here for you to know some secret about Ife. He is the one oduduwa meant in Ife. He even assert he has a link with us, which I don't know.

I cant really say between Igodomigodo/benin and Ife people who came into existence first. But we are different the only thing that link us is the guy who invade your land Oduduwa, his descendants Orominyan also came to invade our land overtime.

Edo people has nothing to do with Ife, except the Oba of benin who is a descendant of Orominyan.

In response to your ignorant and unsubstantiated claim that "Edo people has [sic] nothing to do the with Ife except ...":

An ancient Edo tradition on the origin of the Edos found in S. B Omoreige's "Edo History" --- an unpublished typescript publicized c. 1970 --- claims with a flow chart that:


Oghene (God) created Iso (Sky), Ason (Night), and Avan (Day), and that from Iso(Sky) descended: Ame (Water) and Oto (Earth).

The flow chart continues to claim that:

Uzon (i.e. the Ijaw people) descended from Ame (Water), and that from Oto (Earth) descended: Igbon (i.e.the Igbo people), Idu (i.e. the Edo people), and Olukumi (i.e. the Ile-Ife people).


This ancient Edo tradition clearly shows the common ancestry of the Igbos, the Edos, and the Yorubas according to the Edos themselves.

[Refer to: Roger Blench and Matthew Spriggs, Archaeology and Language I: Theoretical and Methodological Orientations, 2003, p. 312. ]



Another ancient Edo tradition of their origin (known as "Iso Norho" or the myth of the pouring sky) adds more details to the foregoing as follows:


Uhe (Ile-Ife) was (originally) occupied by Olukumi (Yoruba), Idu (Edo), Igbon (Igbo), and Izon (Ijaw).


It stated that Oto (Earth) had committed incest and as a result Iso (Sky) issued Ame (Flood) as punishment for the act.


Oghene (God) is then said to have come to the rescue because he "did not want the children to suffer undue hardship."


Oghene (God) is said to have "By means of a chain ... poured sand on the flood water to form dry land for their habitation."


After Idu's death, his children (Akka, Efa, and Emehi) are all said to have "to migrate from Uhe to the present site of Benin City --- then called Ubini --- where they displaced a group of original settlers Ivbirinwineko ("dwarfs from the spirit world" )."

[Refer to: Roger Blench and Matthew Spriggs, Archaeology and Language I: Theoretical and Methodological Orientations, 2003, pp. 312 - 313. see also: Michael Crowder: The Story of Nigeria, pp 63. ]



It is seen very clearly from the foregoing Edo tradition of origin that not only do the Edos share common ancestry with the Yorubas, they both originally inhabited Ile-Ife alongside the Igbos and the Ijaws before they (i.e. the Edos), the Igbos, and the Ijaws later obviously resettled. -

Notice that this is according to the tradition of origin of the Edos themselves.


The foregoing tradition of origin of the Edos is also somewhat corroborated and augmented by more solid historical documentation in the works of experts like Amaury Talbot, J. U. Egharevba, Dmitri M. Bondarenko among others.


I hope you now agree with your own tradition on your origin. Lol