MightySparrow:
Black and dishonesty are 5 and 6. Soon they will say the oyinbo didn't colonize africa

gregyboy:
It was all a political stunt to claim supiority as the topmost ruler among the chief of council in the former western region

The oba had accepted the Oduduwa genealogy inother to claim his political ambitions towards the chairmanship of the council of chiefs in the western region


There was never the coming of oromiyan to benin it was just a myth coined by the oba of benin to trace the obaship to yorubas for his political aspirations

The first attachment is a list of Obas compiled at different times. the circle indicates a list from 1898.. There is no mention of Oranmiyan there, till the Talbot list from 1930..
The second attachment confirms Talbot as being the first person to decieve the Yorubas that Oduduwa/Oramiyan founded Benin Kingdom.


Even if we want ro believe this connection

There was no written account given by both party
Before 1800

The excavation carried out at orun oba ado was found empty

The benin and ife art are way not alike unlike owo artwork which has same semblance with ife


Roupell list of obaship was composed at 1898 a year after benin invasion and the biggest part of benin history oromiyan was not even told to Roupell in his book untill after the 1900 when the emerge of oromiyan into benin history by talbot

RedboneSmith:
The greatest of the Benin Oba, Oba Ewuare I is also missing from Roupell's list. Which means Ewuare I too was concocted by Talbot and never existed, abi?

RedboneSmith:
The greatest of the Benin Oba, Oba Ewuare I is also missing from Roupell's list. Which means Ewuare I too was concocted by Talbot and never existed, abi?

RedboneSmith:
The greatest of the Benin Oba, Oba Ewuare I is also missing from Roupell's list. Which means Ewuare I too was concocted by Talbot and never existed, abi?

gregyboy:



The names omited by roupell was completed by esekhure
And oromiyan again was omitted

RamessesIV:
But Benin and Yoruba's have always had history I don't really get this argument of supremacy though,in Benin myths I think a benin prince came from ife or so,and the art of bronze casting was brought from ife too,and even in the idia myth when her son went mad after wearing aruahan's beads they called a Yoruba babalawo to cure him,am not sure of the records but this is the little I know from Benin-yoruba historical connections and I think Lagos was once a war camp for Benin soldiers,again these are from the little history I have read

gregyboy:


Check well this time with my arrow

He spelt it as ebowani


RedboneSmith bam waiting for your next counter
Am doing a vigorous research on benin-ife possibilities so i wont you to bring fact thats is new but well documented to ascertain discussion so when am writing i can point out this fact

TAO11:


Exactly! Except that no historian regard such Bini account as myth.

Moreover, I'm mos certain that you as a person do no harbour such low-self esteem to cause you feel inferior because of such as account.

Hkwever

TAO11:


Exactly! Except that no historian regard such Bini account as myth.

Moreover, I know you to an extent that I am most certain that you as a person do no harbour such low-self esteem to cause you to feel inferior because of the existence of such accounts.

There are however some of your own? --- such as gregyboy, davidnazee, samuk, and to some extent AreaFada2, among others --- who are so miserably riddled by inferiority complex, low-self esteem, delusions of grandeur, and insecurity --- that they will go to any extent (including insulting Benin Kings sometimes) just to dissociate themselves from the real-world of sanity.

So my engagement with them is actually in the context of rehabilitation (or put differently in religious context --- reviving lost souls).

To achieve this end, I some times adopt the idea of tough love, in case you see me go hard. It's all for their food.

And so far, I and other on my team are winning this battle against insanity.

Cheers!

RamessesIV:
So i don't understand so i left quora egypt was white vs Egypt was black to come here for another one

Sorry to ask what is the bone of contention here that benin and Yoruba don't have history or one culture is superior to others Cause I don't understand

RamessesIV:
Am mostly talking from the benin account though,most nigerian histories tend to have a mythological sense to it,am not one who distort history to serve agenda(very common with black people),and am a skeptic,before I do away with established myths or history the new claim must go through scrutiny with backed-up credible evidence,so I tend to look at things from both sides,and besides am new to this app but I have noticed a lot of tribal bigotry why is this so

TAO11:


Hahahahaha!

So, history submits that Ife and Benin has dynastic connections with Ife being the origin of the Benin dynasty.

All Ife traditional accounts consistently aligns with this historical submission in its entirety.

Classical Benin traditional accounts align with this historical submission, while [b]modern (from the 1970s) Benin accounts although agree with the connection asserts that Benin is the origin of the Ife monarchy.

Now, all the foregoing Bini Nairalanders used to agree with the modern Bini account until a couple of weeks ago when something happened.

Weeks ago, I demonstrated that the scholars of Benin history the world-over regard the modern Benin account as an "apocryphical", a "pseudohistorical", a "deliberately unauthentic" narrative made up by some Bini intelligentsia in order to ground the false idea of some exceptional antiquity for their people.

After, this exposé, they became stuck in between two options, viz.

(1) Accepting the historical account that Ife is the origin of Benin's present dynasty, or

(2) Rejecting the Ife and Benin Connection altogether.

Guess what they went with! ... Your guess is has good as mine.

RamessesIV:
Hmm one thing am sure of according to their myths/history is that Benin had a prince from ife and left his son to become king and later went to Yoruba land,in Yoruba account that king is thought to be oranmiyan they said he was a yoruba prince that went to Benin(I think),in either case this shows that both Benin and ife have a unique history and connection but have different accounts of myths

Take example in esan we a king or warrior who defeated the Benin and killed the oba,in benin account esans didn't defeat them or kill their king their king was betrayed and got killed in battle but at the end is generally agreed that the Oba lost his life in the war to esans

So I think the bone of contention here should be is

if the prince was from Benin sent to ife??

If ife sent a prince to benin??
(Mind you am not well knowledgable in both myths everything is from the little I can remember so please bear my errors)

Mind you I would like to say is that benin,ife both have lovely cultures and history I do not see the need to prove a myth right to show some faux superiority,the romans claimed to come from troy in greece after it's fall doesn't downplay the achievement of rome or the cultural significance of both rome and greece take example our Hausa/fulanis i don't really see them engaging in such arguments

TAO11:


Got you!

The Ife-Benin relationship is although well established with early-1500s European writtings which speak to it.

And regarding mythology, yes it pervades all cultures and history in the world not only Bini or Nigeria.

However, experts examining mythologies all over the world do not simply discount mythologies as valueless.

In fact, what I have learnt recently from examining mythologies from many ancient cultures around the world (particularly Flood myths), is that those myths didn't actually pop up from thin air.

Considering their preponderance in almost all cultures of the ancient world (from Asia, to Europe, to the Americas, and to Africa) among other reasons, geo-mythologists conclude that they are based on a kernel of historical fact and event that later became exaggerated, distorted, snowballed into what have come to meet them to be.

RamessesIV:
Yes even i am aware of it is just i came here and the supremacy argument is surprising

Am not discrediting myths,I just make sure they are highly scrutinzed,you know in Nigeria we didn't have our own written records,and our architecture is gone,arhcealogy is very poor so that's why I tend to be skeptical of african myths,and with the rise of afrocentrism taking over credible history I tend to be skeptical

Talking of ancient floods,the jewish flood myths is probable gotten from ancient mesopotamians mythology as part of the fertile crescent suffered great flooding that affected agriculture and production,archealogisy has found out that the mesopotamian myth is way too similar to the one found in the hebrew bible,and the fact mesopotamia pre-dates canaanites and jews and its influence makes it plausible

TAO11:


Got you!

Moreover, there is a specific reason why I insist on correcting your description of this specific account as myth.

And the reason is simply that early eye-witness European writtings from as early as the 1500s testify to the dynastic dependence of Benin Kingdom on Ife.

Moreover, there are tons upon tons of historical writtings from historians all over the world affirming the account as history.

Those boys are only jonzing!

RedboneSmith:


Lmao. I got four mentions for just this one small comment?

You're really bored sha. Looking for an argument anyhow. What is your evidence that Ebowani is the same as Ewuare? The names don't even look or sound similar. That the writer of that article (Stefan Eisenhofer) assumed they were the same person and put the names side by side isn't proof enough that it was the same person.

And on the issue of Oranmiyan, given the fact that it was said by some that he didn't reign but only gave birth to the first ruler of the second dynasty (Eweka), it is understandable why his name would be absent in some kinglists.

By the way, the current Oba has affirmed that Oranmiyan indeed is the founder of the current dynasty. Are you calling your oba a liar? Please answer this question. Very important.

TAO11:


Exactly! Except that no historian regard such Bini account as myth.

Moreover, I know you to an extent that I am most certain that you as a person do no harbour such low-self esteem to cause you to feel inferior because of the existence of such accounts.

There are however some of your own? --- such as gregyboy, davidnazee, samuk, and to some extent AreaFada2, among others --- who are so miserably riddled by inferiority complex, low-self esteem, delusions of grandeur, and insecurity --- that they will go to any extent (including insulting Benin Kings sometimes) just to dissociate themselves from the real-world of sanity.

So my engagement with them is actually in the context of rehabilitation (or put differently in religious context --- reviving lost souls).

To achieve this end, I some times adopt the idea of tough love, in case you see me go hard. It's all for their food.

And so far, I and other on my team are winning this battle against insanity.

Cheers!

RamessesIV:
Hmm one thing am sure of according to their myths/history is that Benin had a prince from ife and left his son to become king and later went to Yoruba land,in Yoruba account that king is thought to be oranmiyan they said he was a yoruba prince that went to Benin(I think),in either case this shows that both Benin and ife have a unique history and connection but have different accounts of myths

Take example in esan we a king or warrior who defeated the Benin and killed the oba,in benin account esans didn't defeat them or kill their king their king was betrayed and got killed in battle but at the end is generally agreed that the Oba lost his life in the war to esans

So I think the bone of contention here should be is

if the prince was from Benin sent to ife??

If ife sent a prince to benin??
(Mind you am not well knowledgable in both myths everything is from the little I can remember so please bear my errors)

Mind you I would like to say is that benin,ife both have lovely cultures and history I do not see the need to prove a myth right to show some faux superiority,the romans claimed to come from troy in greece after it's fall doesn't downplay the achievement of rome or the cultural significance of both rome and greece take example our Hausa/fulanis i don't really see them engaging in such arguments

AreaFada2:

(1) Woman, please mind your tongue.
Benin people sit jeje and you guys begin threads on Benin.

(2) Benin have no inferiority complex to anybody. Not even to the British in 1897. Otherwise Benin would have meekly signed up to British machinations without a fight.

(3) Were you around when Oduduwa was alive? Which contemporary of Oduduwa documented his coming from Israel or Arabia?

(4) If with all the many versions of Oduduwa, you want us to believe new ones written by Obas and Frederick as the truth and not call it a myth.

(5) The problem with our SW people is playing population politics. Something Midwest realised 60 years ago and left Western Region.

(6) Your stories written down centuries later are not myths. Benin ones are myths. You guys have this notion that sun doesn't shine anywhere else.

But it's due to ignorance.

RamessesIV:
Am aware so i think is best to call it tradition then,i read from some british records that an ife looking sculpture was found in the palace after the sacking,so i think I am well to stick to what is widely believed but I will do well on my research I tend to have a thing for credible information devoid of agendas that's i don't do black vs white history,history should be viewed without bigotry or agendas

Sorry to ask if you don't mind are you historian

Or do you live outside nigeria?? Cause the way you buttress your points is not like regular Nigerians here i don't just want to equate it to being because you're a woman cause the males here have been utterly disappointed.

AreaFada2:

Thing is SW claim to be educated, sophisticated and so anyone else in the South should not say a word. We all should allow them twist and turn our history.
In their mind all the Sango, Orunnmila, Oduduwa and all are true. Even though they are tribal oral stories with many versions. But Benin stories are simply myths. Di not even mention anything Igbo to them.

When correct their version of your own story they hurl vulgar agbero insults at you which at same time claiming sophisticated.
What they forget is history lives and breathes in Benin. Even each family has a praise name called uwaenmen. Each family. Each family also greets elders in the morning with an ancient specific greeting. Not good morning as most other tribes do.

In the absence of writing it helped to identify family clan. Upon greeting elders, you knowing the historical feats and strength of each family progenitor, you are praised accordingly.

That way each Benin family clan and history is told daily. Every morning. You will never be found dead greeting the clan greeting of another family. Unless you married into that clan as woman.

TAO11:


Got you!

History should definitely be without bigotry, and that's the reason I'm bent on rehabilitating those guys with facts.
Lol .

TAO11:


Who was it
Moreover, more than 100 years before anything about Ubinu (Benin) was documented into writting, Ife has already been documented into writing by the most travelled human in the world's history.

RamessesIV:
Who was it