johnydon22:


I haven't actually thought about it since whether someone is a Christian or atheist has never come up in my considerations when deciding why I want to date or marry someone.

OK please can you think about it and let me know which you prefer? Thanks
Be honest in your reply

NLmember:


OK please can you think about it and let me know which you prefer? Thanks
Be honest in your reply

I just have. I actually don't know since it is still not something I consider or feel is important at all.

It is like asking me if I prefer a woman whose favourite color is red or one whose favourite color is pink.

I don't fu_cking know cus the factors listed are insignificant to my choice on that particular issue

johnydon22:


Conscience is informed.

It is shaped.

It may not necessarily be religiously influenced but it is aa a result of a prevailing moral provision learnt/followed by an individual

There is no such thing as a pre-installed moral compass (conscience) due to evolutionary reasons.

That's absurd.

That would suggest morality is intrinsic (objective) which I doubt you'd agree to.

Really?

Compassion and kindness are a part of conscience

Animals sometimes show compassion to each other

Animals in the wild


So when animals show compassion it means they were informed by a prevailing moral provision which was learned by the animal?

johnydon22:
I just have. I actually don't know since it is still not something I consider or feel is important at all.

It is like asking me if I prefer a woman whose favourite color is red or one whose favourite color is pink.

I don't fu_cking know cus the factors listed are insignificant to my choice on that particular issue

Stories

I know what your choice is though

NLmember:


Stories

I know what your choice is though

If you were only looking for confirmation of your pet hypothesis you shouldn't have bothered starting the thread.

hucknall:


Atheists have no morals, in fact cannot have morals.

atheism is amoral. it does not tell you what is right or wrong

NLmember:


Conscience is not religion or symptom of religiousness.

Its just an evolutionary instinct to promote easy coexistence.

Prove it?
Do animals have conscience?

Conscience depend on the knowledge of right and wrong. Where there is no law, there is no sin.

NLmember:


Stories

I know what your choice is though

I never knew that you come preinstalled with omniscience.

I guess, life surprises me everyday.

hakeem4:
atheism is amoral. it does not tell you what is right or wrong

True statement

NLmember:


Really?

Compassion and kindness are a part of conscience

Animals sometimes show compassion to each other

Animals in the wild


So when animals show compassion it means they were informed by a prevailing moral provision which was learned by the animal?

Actually No, because you are assuming that animal's behavior is controlled by a sense of right and wrong which is a baseless claim at best.

Conscience requires a sense/basic graps of the concepts of right - wrong.

johnydon22:


I never knew that you come preinstalled with omniscience.

I guess, life surprises me everyday.

Well now you know

LordReed:


If you were only looking for confirmation of your pet hypothesis you shouldn't have bothered starting the thread.

Hmmm?
How?

When you guys kept shying away from answering the question I had to answer it for you.

NLmember:


Hmmm?
How?

When you guys kept shying away from answering the question I had to answer it for you.

And when we do answer you dismiss it and hold on to your preconceived notions. Did you come to learn about atheists or to confirm what you already believe?

hakeem4:
atheism is amoral. it does not tell you what is right or wrong

Yeah, leaves you to decide your own right and wrong. which will always be selfish.

johnydon22:


1. Necessity of order within the circle for each to thrive
2. Obligation as a commodity for unity
3. Understanding that interpersonal interaction is inevitable



1. necessity of interpersonal interactions
2. Conceived advantages of an orderly community
3. Belief in a central authority
4. Shared imaginary order/belief



Depends the specimen your are considering since these humans are enshrined within social orders such as country, continent, states, hamlets, towns, families, religion.


Continue

you managed to exclude it from religion. Let's not go to that side.

these standards are set by
powers and submission is achieved through fear and when you fail to abide you are punished right?

hucknall:
Yeah, leaves you to decide your own right and wrong. which will always be selfish.

All moral systems are inherently selfish. They always embody the ideals of the group formulating it.That's why you don't think killing an animal is bad, you are looking out for your own (human) group.and why the Israelites could justify making slaves of other tribes, they were looking out for themselves.

LordReed:


All moral systems are inherently selfish. They always embody the ideals of the group formulating it.That's why you don't think killing an animal is bad, you are looking out for your own (human) group.and why the Israelites could justify making slaves of other tribes, they were looking out for themselves.

'looking out for themselves' as an atheist you look out for only yourself.

hucknall:
you managed to exclude it from religion.

Actually I didn't. Religion falls under these:

3. Belief in a central authority
4. Shared imaginary order/belief

Let's not go to that side.
these standards are set by
powers and submission is achieved through fear and when you fail to abide you are punished right?

Not necessarily.

There are moral requirements that are not an obligation hence bears no legal implications.


P.s: Remember the premise you trying to prove here is that an atheist cannot be moral. It is taking quite a long time to.

hucknall:
'looking out for themselves' as an atheist you look out for only yourself.

LMAO Morality can't exist in isolation my dude.

hucknall:
'looking out for themselves' as an atheist you look out for only yourself.

I look out for myself and others as any good moral system should, trouble is how far does the looking out for others go. You think your religious framework provides for an extensive reach but in reality it fails when it encounters certain issues. Slavery for one, your bible supports. People had to override bible beliefs to outlaw slavery.

shadeyinka:

They do, it's called survival of the fittest. If they do not support it, it is purely from the relics of religion they subconsciously carry around

this shows you have no idea what "survival of the fittest" means. most Christians I've come across don't either

NLmember:


Would you choose a hardcore atheist wife over a liberal and open minded christian woman?

i dig the way you qualified the christian woman though, " liberal and open minded." you are simply saying being a christian isnt good enough.

I doubt very much though that a woman who is liberal and open minded would bẹ christian.

hopefulLandlord:

this shows you have no idea what "survival of the fittest" means. most Christians I've come across don't either

Dear Professor hopefulLandlord,
You should have first defined the term/phrase "survival of the fittest" before beating your chest in self glory. After all, I didn't define it for you to conclude it's a wrong definition.

Conscience depend on the knowledge of right and wrong and where there is no law, there is no sin.

The rule of morality isn't self determined and without a rule that guides us "survival of the fittest" is the only rule.

Is your problem the realisation that you as an atheist still carry the relics of religion?

Sheunma:
i dig the way you qualified the christian woman though, " liberal and open minded." you are simply saying being a christian isnt good enough.

I doubt very much though that a woman who is liberal and open minded would bẹ christian.

With an opportunity to commit a perfect murder, your Atheist wife will do the needful and move on with her life. Your hardcore Christian wife knows that there is no perfect crime under God. What you sow is what you reap!

hucknall:


Atheists have no morals, in fact cannot have morals.

That's a lie Sir!

LordReed:


I look out for myself and others as any good moral system should, trouble is how far does the looking out for others go. You think your religious framework provides for an extensive reach but in reality it fails when it encounters certain issues. Slavery for one, your bible supports. People had to override bible beliefs to outlaw slavery.

The German soldiers at the end of the second world war served as what in USSR, USA and Britain as what!?

If there is a third world war, do you think the same will happen to the looser?

Please learn and understand:
There are different forms of slavery starting from house helps to gladiators.

All men should be free irrespective of their race, color and nationality however, slavery will always exist. That is why you have a class of people called Civil Servants

shadeyinka:

Dear Professor hopefulLandlord,

nah, I'm an illiterate

You should have first defined the term/phrase "survival of the fittest" before beating your chest in self glory. After all, I didn't define it for you to conclude it's a wrong definition

that's not necessary as your use of it betrays your total lack of knowledge about what it means.

shadeyinka:

The German soldiers at the end of the second world war served as what in USSR, USA and Britain as what!?

If there is a third world war, do you think the same will happen to the looser?

Please learn and understand:
There are different forms of slavery starting from house helps to gladiators.

All men should be free irrespective of their race, color and nationality however, slavery will always exist. That is why you have a class of people called Civil Servants

Irrelevant. Your bible supports slavery, period.

LordReed:


Irrelevant. Your bible supports slavery, period.

Caught in your own web!
Close your ears and eyes by screaming "irrelevant"!
The truth you want to avoid remain before you unyielding.

hopefulLandlord:
nah, I'm an illiterate
that's not necessary as your use of it betrays your total lack of knowledge about what it means.

Ok!
Dear Illiterate Professor hopefulLandlord,
True to your nature, It's actually not a surprise that you jump to conclusions before having sufficient data and information.

Your illiteracy isn't in reading and writing, but in major aspects of deductions required in acquisition of wisdom. Total information is not necessary as far as you are concerned: for your mind is already made up.

johnydon22:
Actually I didn't. Religion falls under these:

3. Belief in a central authority
4. Shared imaginary order/belief

Not necessarily.

There are moral requirements that are not an obligation hence bears no legal implications.

what are they? some examples will do

P.s: Remember the premise you trying to prove here is that an atheist cannot be moral. It is taking quite a long time to.

I know I'm taking it slow in order to avoid misunderstanding.

johnydon22:


LMAO Morality can't exist in isolation my dude.

to be clear, you guys are saying is there are no personal moral.