jln115:
I don't remember quoting your moniker, so only God know why you are on this thread.

Seems like you stalked me here.

Yes you are right....I couldn't locate your previous podt so I heard to input you name in the search column so I could locate your profile and voila I found this

shadowprimezero:


For the Egyptian MEKO 200's?

https://dsm.forecastinternational.com/wordpress/2019/10/01/denel-egypt-in-talks-on-umkhonto-deal/

"The Egyptian military is seeking to move forward with an acquisition of South African firm Denel’s Umkhonto, a surface-to-air missile.

Mail & Guardian, a South African newspaper, reported last week that Denel is working on a ZAR4.5 billion ($294 million) sale of missiles to the Egyptian Navy. According to the report, Egypt is seeking to procure the Umkhonto-R, a radar-guided variant of the Umkhonto missile. The newspaper reported that Denel and Egypt are discussing the supply of 96 Umkhonto-Rs. Its report added, “The state arms company also intends to sell 32 units of an infrared variant of the Umkhonto-R.”

The proposed missile contract comes with a ZAR1.5 billion advance, which would provide crucial support to cash-strapped Denel.

According to the report, Denel said the Umkhonto contract is related to ThyssenKrupp Marine Systems vessels, a possible reference to the Meko 200. Earlier this year, Germany’s government approved an export license for at least three Meko 200s, as well as three other unspecified frigates, to the Egyptian Navy.

It had previously been assumed that Egypt would arm its frigates with surface-to-air missiles from the Aster family.

Darren Olivier, an expert on African militaries who is the director of the website African Defence Review, noted the Umkhonto-R is still in development and has not yet made a test flight, meaning the proposed contract between Denel and Egypt involves funding for development purposes. It is not clear when the missile will be ready for serial production, but external financing from Egypt could speed the process along.

South Africa’s National Conventional Arms Control Commission (NCACC), a regulatory body, must approve the sale before it can move forward. The NCACC is obligated to consider the importing state’s human rights record when determining whether to approve a sale.

A South African government source expressed confidence to Mail & Guardian that the deal would be approved despite Egypt’s human rights record, given that the missiles are for surface-to-air purposes and therefore unlikely to facilitate human rights abuses. The source said, “You must remember Egypt is not under any arms embargo, so the financial benefits far outweigh the possibility of us finding ourselves on the wrong side of history.”

State-owned Denel has struggled to remain profitable amid declining orders from the South African military. The company is jettisoning loss-making businesses and looking to boost exports abroad to shore up its portfolio. The sale to Egypt would be the largest export contract in Denel’s history, underscoring the importance of the proposed deal."

TayserMahri:


Why did you quote me when I said Ezugwu is a MRAP not an APC?

Because a MRAP is an APC, that's why

Nigeria. Independence Day celebrations

SANDF. Internal security deployments. Why do things seem to be escalating?

Nigerian Army AFSF

jln115:

Because a MRAP is an APC, that's why

Yes in the apartheid era. In the modern era a MRAP has a specific role and so do APCs.

Kenyan and Jordanian maritime reaction ship boarding exercise.

TayserMahri:


Yes in the apartheid era. In the modern era a MRAP has a specific role and so do APCs.

They literally have the same role!!!

But Im guessing you are right and the likes of Denel, Paramount, milkor ect ect are all wrong because they don't call their vehicles MRAPs but call them APCs.

Algerian1:
Algerian navy exercise this days ,Kalibr cruse missile launched from kilo 636 M submarines to a ground target at 290 km


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=41F3Gvh50E0


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kDiJLgYG8aM

1.5 mn$ a pop!

TayserMahri:
Chinook Drifting ?? Pretty dope


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xtZpcUj_wqQ

The fruit of hundreds of man hours of tough training in all conditions and contingencies!

How do i classify these pls.

TayserMahri:


Its not about physical looks but the physics of the looks. Look at any MRAP, from Casspir to Ezugwu and notice that it would tip over in steep terrain (high CoG). APCs wont tip over as easily. That makes the MRAPs very unsuitable for troop transfer. Typically they are usually sling loaded by helicopter to the theatre, where the troops then use them for patrol. KDF does this sling loading very often in Somalia because if used to transport infantry on the tricky terror infested roads the MRAPs are too vulnerable to ambush & shoulder launched missiles. On the other hand APCs will safely transfer troops over thousands of miles; all terrain. So yea, the 'looks' can disqualify a MRAP as APC due to its limited troop transfer capacity. MRAPs are by far and large patrol vehicles.

REALLY!? Pic?

jln115:
They literally have the same role!!!

But Im guessing you are right and the likes of Denel, Paramount, milkor ect ect are all wrong because they don't call their vehicles MRAPs but call them APCs.

Not the same role by definition but you will find some armies (mis)using MRAPs for transport. Today MRAPs are meant for insurgent areas (even police patrol) while APCs are meant for conventional theatres. All your examples are apartheid era companies which explains alot why you are sticking to your guns.

QuietMynd:
How do i classify these pls.

These are MRAPs to my knowledge.

kikuyu1:


REALLY!? Pic?

*Humvees* not exactly MRAPs. That was an oversight. Will try to get a video.

Denel Dynamics has successfully completed the missile qualification and certification for it’s 5th generation A-Darter IIR Short Range Air-to-Air Missile (SRAAM) System, with the Type Certificate issued in September 2019 by Brazil and South Africa.

jln115:
They literally have the same role!!!

But Im guessing you are right and the likes of Denel, Paramount, milkor ect ect are all wrong because they don't call their vehicles MRAPs but call them APCs.

You'd grow grey today

Happy belated 59th Independence day to Nigeria

QuietMynd:
How do i classify these pls.

pic [1] APC
pic [2] MRAP heavy
pic [3] MRAP light

MRAP (Mine Resistant Ambush Protected-Vehicle) do have a V-shaped monocoque hull like the [2] ARA2 for better protection against landmines. While APCs like [1] PF2 (and US Humwee) are engieered in common fashion with reinforced steel on the hull.
[3] Cobra 1 has a v-hull and by defintion it is a MRAP but lacks good armor (STANAG Level 1) while ARA 2 has STANAG Level 3A and 3B, and an underbelly of 4A and 4B.

shadowprimezero:
SANDF. Internal security deployments. Why do things seem to be escalating?

The media blows things out of proportion, from protests to so called xenophobic attacks. South Africa has hundreds of towns and townships (combined). If one township has its protests the media has a tendency of making it look like the whole country is burning. There was a "Cape Town Shutdown" protest and that weekend I was in the Cape, I didn't even know it existed until someone called me to check if I was safe. There were few burning tires with unhappy people (as always) but on TV it looked like the whole of Cape Town was on flames.

Also, I've seen fake news capitalise on this, so during the so-called xenophobic attacks I'd see pictures from the DRC being used, even pictures from Nigeria itself added as if they were from South Africa.

Learn to filter the noise, when they say SA is burning then know that it's only 0.0000001% of the population on some mischievous behaviour and the media is out there to sell some dramatic news.

SuperSixSeven:

pic [1] APC
pic [2] MRAP heavy
pic [3] MRAP light

MRAP (Mine Resistant Ambush Protected-Vehicle) do have a V-shaped monocoque hull like the [2] ARA2 for better protection against landmines. While APCs like [1] PF2 (and US Humwee) are engieered in common fashion with reinforced steel on the hull.
[3] Cobra 1 has a v-hull and by defintion it is a MRAP but lacks good armor (STANAG Level 1) while ARA 2 has STANAG Level 3A and 3B, and an underbelly of 4A and 4B.

Totally agree. I thought the first one has the V shape hull too.

TayserMahri:


Not the same role by definition but you will find some armies (mis)using MRAPs for transport. Today MRAPs are meant for insurgent areas (even police patrol) while APCs are meant for conventional theatres. All your examples are apartheid era companies which explains alot why you are sticking to your guns.

Actually you are just sucking things out your thumb:

Striet Group UAE: Refers to their vehicles as MRAP APCs
Bushmaster Australia: Doesn't refer to their vehicles as MRAPs but APCs
IAG Canada: Refers to their smaller lighter Non Mine resistant vehicles as APCs yet their much larger Guardian extreme and Rila are called MRAPs

P.s Paramount isn't an apartheid era Company...........Do your research PLEASE!!!

MRAPs are APCs end of story!

The Aermacchi MB-326BK locally known as the Atlas Impala. The SAAF oparated 260 of these and 220 were manufactured in South Africa. Flew hundreds of sorties in Angola, dropped dozens of bombs (sorry Namibians) and it was the very first jet I saw flying in the 90s, it flew very low and inverted over our house and could see the pilot's legs.


Sweet childhood memories

QuietMynd:
How do i classify these pls.

All of them are APCs

TayserMahri:


Totally agree. I thought the first one has the V shape hull too.

What?? so now you agree that this is an APC:
You are contradicting yourself with every post now!!!

Odunayaw:
You'd grow grey today

Probably should check in the mirror tonight.

Didn;t think explaining that MRAPs are just APCs with Mine protection will be so difficult!

jln115:
What?? so now you agree that this is an APC:
You are contradicting yourself with every post now!!!

Am not going to waste any more time arguing with you for a second straight day over a mundane issue. Im going to leave these here:

They serve different purposes.

MRAPs are Mine-resistant vehicles that are primarily intended to transport soldiers on internal security and counter-insurgency missions. They are designed to protect against IEDs, landmines, and small arms fire. They do not (usually) have a built-in primary armament that can engage a target. The soldiers are supposed to function just like regular dismounted infantry. Also, MRAPs are way lighter than IFVs/APCs and are not tracked - they have normal tyres like any heavy vehicle. They are usually used by Police units and Internal Security Forces/Gendarmerie and very rarely by regular Army.

IFVs are often the heaviest of the three. They have a primary armament that has a huge caliber that can seriously tear up hard targets and can destroy enemy Armour - even Tanks. Most IFVs have the primary weapon as a 30mm to 40mm caliber Autocannon. This caliber of cannons can destroy most Main Battle Tanks, let alone enemy IFVs/APCs. Thus they are primarily functioning in a heavy support role to dismounted infantry - the IFV itself is a weapons' platform and provide huge firepower. They are tracked vehicles just like Tanks. Examples are the BMP-2 and the CV 90/Strf 90 (Stridsfordon 90), M2 Bradley etc. They are usually used by designated Mechanized Infantry units and Heavy Cavalry.

APCs are somewhere between MRAPs and IFVs. While they offer the same sort of protection from small arms fire, they usually have some primary armament that can engage targets, such as a 12.7 mm or 14.5mm heavy machine gun, enough to destroy soft targets (including enemy APCs and field fortifications) but not enough to destroy enemy Armour/Tanks. Their primary purpose is to be used as "Battle Taxis" to ferry infantry troops onto the mission area, and keep them safe from small arms fire. Examples are BTR-70, Stryker, LAV, M113 etc. They are usually used by regular Infantry/Motorized Rifle Infantry/Light Cavalry units.

APC is Armored Personnel CARRIER, the so called battle taxis. They are transport for troops (usually a platoon) to their objective. APC only have some machine guns for self protection on urban areas or in case encounters flanking enemy infantry. And many times they carry no weapons at all.
Once the vehicle reaches is destiny, the infantry dismounts and fight on foot.

IFV is Infantry FIGHTING Vehicle. This vehicles are mobile support weapons for infantry. They fill the role tanks had in the past when they were infantry support units, now tanks main job is destroy enemy armor, so they have oversized cannons for infantry fire support and that mission is secondary for them.
IFV's carry less infantry than APC, usually, because they use internal space for a combat crew as Commander and Gunner. That and that most of the IFV's have turrets that penetrates the hull taking more space, but others no, having remote controlled weapons on the roof.
IFV's carry 20 to 50 mm automatic cannons, a coaxial machine gun or even an extra low velocity bigger cannon or anti-tank missiles.
Once the vehicle reaches its destiny it provide fire support to dismounted infantry shooting High Explosive ammo over enemy machine guns and covered positions, High Velocity Armor Piercing on enemy armor and even can provide some short of air defense against low flying enemy aircraft.
IFV's can act as assault vehicles breaking over enemy lines and deposit infantry on their rears.

MRAP is Mine Resistant Ambush Protected vehicles. They are designed for asymmetric warfare where the enemy is not a regular army and can be within your own grounds.
MRAP's are designed to replace from utility vehicles to APC's. Since 4x4, trucks and APC's usually get blown by IED's and antitank mines deployed by guerrillas or terrorists. They take the job of patrols, medical evac, troop transports, fast response light motorized infantry.

MRAPs are less related to APCs and IFVs, and more to other light skinned troop transports, that have been uparmoured to resist mines, IEDs and ambushes in primary counterinsurgency warfare, as opposed to the IFVs and APCs use in (or at least design for) conventional warfare. They are definitely not designed to be used in a conventional battlefield, due to vulnerabilities against other armoured fighting vehicles and other threats (artillery, aviation etc), and lighter armaments of MMGs (7.62mm) and HMG/GMGs. However in their role of resisting IED blasts and offering protection from at least small arms fire in the case of a subsequent ambush, they are ideal compared to the use of the lightly armoured troop transport vehicles which they replaced. They are also relevantly newer in concept than the other two types of vehicle, which have existed for at least since around the Second World War (APC) and Cold War (IFV), as it caters to more modern counterinsurgency operations such as Afghanistan and Iraq. Examples include the namesake US MRAPs, the Cougar, Buffalo, Maxxpro, RG-31 and RG-33, the Australian Bushmaster IMV, , the Russian Typhoon, the above Lazar and the South African Casspir.

That should keep you busy for the rest of the day!

TayserMahri:


These are MRAPs to my knowledge.

U sure, maybe u should re-view it again

jln115:
What?? so now you agree that this is an APC:
You are contradicting yourself with every post now!!!

I thought am the only one who noticed thesame thing.

QuietMynd:

U sure, maybe u should re-view it again

What are they to you?

QuietMynd:
How do i classify these pls.

Pic 1 is an APC, because it lacks the needed armour to make it an MRAP,
Pic 2: MRAP, because it has the needed armour to be one
Pic 3: i will call it an APC, because it doesnt meet the criteria to be called an MRAP, because an MRAP that can't withstand Mines is NO MRAP.