₦airaland Forum

LegendHero:
While I’m also an advocate for Oduduwa Republic, I want you to get something right since you’re a middle belt guy.

You will have the same problem being in a country with the Igbos, they will also call you Aboki and illiterates if you’re in the same country with them, they will never respect you, how many times have the Igbos ever respected a middle beltan? There will still be issue of majority and some will still want to be the born to rule in a country that the tribal percentage is not almost even.

Your best bet is to have a different country of your own, you can do it also and that will be the best option.

The best bet for Nigeria is to divide into 4 countries, Core North, Oduduwa, Biafra, and the Niger Delta.

If any two of these mentioned tribes are lumped up in a single country, they will still face the problem of tribalism faced in Nigeria. That’s a fact looking at how the average mind of a Nigerian is configured.

Orjioorji:
they should support other southern brothers not always a northern Muslim, we supported Obj, we supported Abiola, but when it comes to igbo man a yoruba Muslim will rather vote hausa Muslim than igbo Christian, an average igbo man dot care about your religion as long it doesn't stop him from leaving his life in peace , let support a southern brother the north will stop riding over us, we are more learned

Nowenuse:
Yes I support a country for middlebelters or northern christians alone, but it doesn't stop us from forming a confederacy with the South-South & South-east because we will be landlocked. We can offer them land for agriculture while we use their ports.

I believe the Niger delta would agree to a joint nation with the Igbos if we middlebelters would be involved because their fears of being in a country with absolute Igbo majority will be cleared.

Igbos will never call my people abokii or illiterates because the new nation will be well structured to prevent things like this. Besides, middlebelters are not predominantly illiterates like the Hausa fulanis. We are rapidly catching up with the south in terms of education and most educated Igbos & Niger deltans are fully aware of this. I have been living in the south for over 20 years.

Omoodua007:
You forgot to add oyo

Infact of all the 8 Yoruba speaking states/ territories only 2 out of 8 kwara and Osun are led by Muslims and there’s no wahala so they envy it about us a lot
No civilization can achieve what Yoruba have done with religion

Nowenuse:
Yes I support a country for middlebelters or northern christians alone, but it doesn't stop us from forming a confederacy with the South-South & South-east because we will be landlocked. We can offer them land for agriculture while we use their ports.

I believe the Niger delta would agree to a joint nation with the Igbos if we middlebelters would be involved because their fears of being in a country with absolute Igbo majority will be cleared.

Igbos will never call my people abokii or illiterates because the new nation will be well structured to prevent things like this. Besides, middlebelters are not predominantly illiterates like the Hausa fulanis. We are rapidly catching up with the south in terms of education and most educated Igbos & Niger deltans are fully aware of this. I have been living in the south for over 20 years.

Nowenuse:
This is not true.
Oromos in Ethiopia, one of the largest African ethnic groups with over 40 million people are very much united even though they are almost 50/50 between christians and muslims.
So stop feeling to special and read a book

LegendHero:
Firstly, I’m sorry if I sound harsh in the description.

Secondly, let’s face the fact bro, if you look Nigeria’s history since 1914 up to this moment, you will agree with me that we have not learnt to see eachother as one, forget the wishful thinking bro.

Before independence, all our past leaders shared your sentiments, the Awo, Zik, Balewas were of the thought that we will live together in cohesion and each tribe will contribute their quota to the centre and will remain independent. Just like you opined about the middle belt being the one to provide food, but in reality, human being lust for power and ethnic politics will come in and that’s the truth.

While I understand you when you talked about being landlocked, but you can actually negotiate a trade deal with the new country Biafra, or Niger Delta to give you access to the seaport and you can also be a major exporter of food.

The problem of Nigeria now is that most tribes are thinking they can’t stand alone because of the crude oil economy that we have. Leaders are scared of what the future hold and how their people will survive coz to be honest Nigeria is not that rich as we all think.

It is great to have a peaceful country with homogenous mind such that any government policies will not be viewed from the mirror of tribalism or religious difference.

I’ll still say the optimal solution to all this is to have four individual countries competing against eachother in their own might.

Nowenuse:
This is not true.
Oromos in Ethiopia, one of the largest African ethnic groups with over 40 million people are very much united even though they are almost 50/50 between christians and muslims.
So stop feeling to special and read a book

LegendHero:
Ethiopia is not 50/50.

Seems you should be the one to read a book.

See Wikipedia below. I even have a colleague from Ethiopia and I’ve asked this question from her before.

Nowenuse:
4 individual countries? 5 if you ask me because there is no way in hell the middlebelt will have one country with Hausa-fulanis. Impossible.

Like I said we could have a very loosed confederacy with the Igbos & SS. Something like the EU or the UK where seccession will be included in the constitution. Anyone who is tired of the union can easily pull out anytime.

This union can be possible because we will have christianity as a common denominator.

It will be good for the Yorubas to be in such a union too, but you guys and Igbos will always clash as 2 large tribes.

Hausa fulanis are the problem of Nigeria. We middlebelters, Niger deltans, Yorubas & Igbos, no matter how much we quarrel with each other, we have common values. We value life, education and a prosperous future, unlike Hausa fulanis.
We intermarry ourselves, socialize, eat and drink together. We can form a progressive nation or confederacy together where everyone controls her resources, or better still everyone goes his way and maintain friendship from afar.

Nowenuse:
Who said Ethiopia was 50/50?

I said Oromos were 50/50 not ET.
Oromos are the largest ethnic group in Ethiopia. In a country of about 100 million people, they have about 40 million. Amharas, Tigrays and the other minority tribes are predominantly christian. Only Somali is predominantly muslim.

LegendHero:
Alright I got you. Thought you said Ethiopia as a whole. I re-read and I saw that you meant an ethic tribe Oromos.

Nice one tho, it actually depicts a high level of civility for an ethnic group to learn to conquer the animosity of religious differences.

I see no reason why sane minds will fight over religion, you can disagree over issues but it shouldn’t degenerate to an extent of killing eachother in the name of religion.

Any tribe practicing that kind of barbaric attitude in this time and age should be ashamed of their identity.

Omoodua007:
iPob and lies

Nowenuse:
First of all, I am a middlebelter from Plateau state and I am not an Igbo.

That statistics of yours from Wiki has 2 errors in my context of approach.

1) It includes Oromos of Kenya. Oromos of Kenya are predominantly muslim, But those of ET are 50/50.

2) Oromos of Ethiopia were slightly muslim majority in the past like you yorubas, but today it is a 50/50. Ask any Ethiopian you know.
Many Oromos have been leaving Islam till date since they were ruled by the christian Amharic empire.

How can you confirm this? Check their names. Take the current Prime minister for example. He is Abiy Ahmed, an Oromo, but he is a pentecostal christian. His fathers were obviously muslims from the surnames just like we see among you yorubas today too.

There has been a rise of pentecostalism in Ethiopia over the decades and it has been spearheaded by the Oromos, just like you Yorubas did in Nigeria, hence many of your people left and are leaving islam just like the Oromos are doing too.

Have I made myself clear

Cc LegendHero

LegendHero:
Alright I got you. Thought you said Ethiopia as a whole. I re-read and I saw that you meant an ethic tribe Oromos.

Nice one tho, it actually depicts a high level of civility for an ethnic group to learn to conquer the animosity of religious differences.

I see no reason why sane minds will fight over religion, you can disagree over issues but it shouldn’t degenerate to an extent of killing eachother in the name of religion.

Any tribe practicing that kind of barbaric attitude in this time and age should be ashamed of their identity.

Nowenuse:
I have hardly seen any ethnic group with 50/50 or 60/40 or even 70/30 religious divides killing each other except in the case of Indians during the partition of India.

But in an ethnic group with 80-90% of one religion? They see it more or less like purification. Hausa muslims treat their own Hausa christian minorities as trash & 2nd class and can kill them at the slightest provocation.

This same things happens in the middlebelt too where many tribes who are predominantly christian kill/chase away their muslim minorities because to them these muslims take sides with Hausa fulanis because of religion.

LegendHero:
Yeah, you’re right about the figures. They are actually almost 48.1% Christian and 47.6 muslims while the rest are traditional worshippers.

Really don’t know much about their conversion rate or ideology behind their equal religious population.

Nowenuse:
Thank you, from what an Ethiopian friend told me, even the Oromos in ET are now becoming majority christian gradually, just like Yorubas

In the next decades, muslims could be a small minority among them with the rates of conversions going on.

Muslims have refused to reform their religion to suit the 21st century, they should expect to loose more members. Birth rates are their only growing option.

LegendHero:
I can’t speak for the Hausas and the history of religious killings in the North verifies your claim although middle belt is also part of the evil (Berom tribe or so)

While I can’t talk of other tribes, I’m very sure that even if the Yorubas are 90% / 10% in religious difference, we WILL never stoop so low in killing or breeding animosity against eachother.

The secret is that it is Yoruba first before religion. That is the first instinct of an average Yoruba.

Nowenuse:
First of all, I am a middlebelter from Plateau state and I am not an Igbo.

That statistics of yours from Wiki has 2 errors in my context of approach.

1) It includes Oromos of Kenya. Oromos of Kenya are predominantly muslim, But those of ET are 50/50.

2) Oromos of Ethiopia were slightly muslim majority in the past like you yorubas, but today it is a 50/50. Ask any Ethiopian you know.
Many Oromos have been leaving Islam till date since they were ruled by the christian Amharic empire.

How can you confirm this? Check their names. Take the current Prime minister for example. He is Abiy Ahmed, an Oromo, but he is a pentecostal christian. His fathers were obviously muslims from the surnames just like we see among you yorubas today too.

There has been a rise of pentecostalism in Ethiopia over the decades and it has been spearheaded by the Oromos, just like you Yorubas did in Nigeria, hence many of your people left and are leaving islam just like the Oromos are doing too.

Have I made myself clear

Cc LegendHero

LegendHero:
You are wrong, the reason why you are under the illusion of the increasing spread of Christianity is that among the Yorubas, some people tend to need miracles such that they go to churches and crusades even when they are still Muslims.

Religion itself shouldn’t be a subject of divide among rational minds. The main reason people are religious in Africa is because we believe prayer is sacrosanct and in as much as you can get your problem solved under any means to God, then everyone should be happy.

Infact, I can say religion in Yoruba land have been modified such that it’s practiced differently as it’s been practiced in other places. In Yorubaland, you’ll see a Muslim that have been to church and also a Christian that have been to mosque maybe for just accompanying a friend or just for sightseeing.

Infact, people from different religion intermarry a lot such that their offsprings might choose different religion.

There is no issue of majority or minority, coz it’s still dosen’t make sense to categorize people based on that.

You’re looking at the situation with a northern mindset, the Yoruba mindset is not configured that way and no one lose sleep about religious dominance.

OfoIgbo:
Junaib and his ilk can jump into Argungu. One thing that everyone should know about Igbos is that they don't bluff. What Igbos say they will do, they will surely do.
Igbos did not shy away from a war when the whole nation was against them, let alone now that the Fulanis may not get the same universal support they got from other Nigerians back in the days.
Southsouth is not going Fulani way this time. Middlebelt may not go Fulani way. The only regions that may still do that will be the Southwest and the northeast, but Igbos are way more than a match for those three regions put together.

The line has already been drawn. No Igbo presidency in 2023, no Igbo (and possibly Southsouth) in Nigeria.

At the moment, it is mainly the poor and the working class in Igboland that are fanatically in support of Biafra. By 2023 presidential primaries, the middle class, the political class and the upper class of Igboland may join in the agitation, and the critical mass buildup will be so explosive that Junaib and his fellow travellers will be scampering for cover.

No gragra will help Junaib and his ilk this time

Nowenuse:
For me I blame no middlebelt tribe for that. Hausas brought about the evil and the muslim minorities chose to allign with the evil.

Don't say things yorubas will do and will not do. Life is not predictable.

I'm sure if you had asked the Ottoman muslims about wiping out their christian minorities in the Armenian genocide before 1914, they would have spoken like you now, but when before their very eyes they saw their Armenian christian minorities taking sides with Russia to destroy Turkey, they embarked on the worst genocide in the 20th century after the holocaust.

Someone may say the Turkish muslims were different ethnic group from the christian ethnic groups. Later on, the same Turkey exchanged Turkish christian remnants for Greek muslims with Greece just to have a 100% muslim country.

My brother if yorubas are even 80% christian and they see the 20% muslim minority taking sides with the caliphate to bring down an Oduduwa republic, they will do the needful.

Only that Yoruba muslims are mostly folk muslims/liberal muslims, they will never do such a thing. But with a group like MURIC on the rise, people are no longer sure.

Omoodua007:
Nope your missing the point the numbers of oromos outside ET is less than 5% so it doesn’t matter

They are 70 30 and even if they are tolerant like Yorubas they are not plenty tribes like Yorubas and oromos

Nowenuse:
You are quite correct about your people, however like I tell you, life is unpredictable.

Once upon a time, the north (especially the minority ethnic groups) was once a place of religious harmony where people of different religions intermarried and coexisted as one.

My mother practiced both islam & christianity simultaneously while growing up. Her immediate junior sister maintained islam while she maintained christianity later on, but today everything has changed! Nobody knew things would be like this as of then.

Kpoikpoi:
Your comment is interesting.
So how does your Igbo problem affect South South?
South South have had their president and will have another one soon.
I think you missed the point, the man was talking about Igbos and South East but all of a sudden you are talking about South South.
See how una no get sense?
Abi una de fear to fight alone for your Biafra?
Every time SS ,wetin concern SS with your Biafra?
MUMU Igbo people.

LegendHero:
Why do people keep saying the Muslims in Yorubaland are taking side with the caliphate? In terms of politics or in terms of religion? Can you please explain what you meant.

Islam first got to yorubaland in the 14th century through the Malian itinerant traders (Wangara Traders) even when the Fulanis were still in Futalajon, That is why it is called Esin Imale (religion of the Malian).

MURIC does the same thing CAN always do and that is to protect their religion and to show trait of paranoia everytime. Both groups are political group, while CAN is for PDP, MURIC is for APC.

You can’t know the Yorubas than I do, even if we are 90% / 10%, we will never degenerate to that kind of hateful religious intolerance.

Even as we are almost 50/50 in terms of religion stat, 5 of the current governors in SW are Christians and there is no noise about that. What does that tells you about the Yorubas?

Nowenuse:
I am not arguing with you about your people. I am only telling you that life is full of surprises. Though like I said in the beginning, no ethnic group of almost 50/50 can kill each other except in Indian partition.
Wait till you become 80/20 or 90/10 before you speak about it. Every feature has it's challenges. You can never comprehend some challenges unless you are there.

My ethnic group in Plateau state is almost 50/50 and we are neighbours with tribes who have chased away their muslims. We can never do such a thing to ourselves cos it is tantamount to suicide. However, I can't speak for our future.

Besides what about the recurring fracas between Yoruba muslims & traditionalists?

LegendHero:
The problem of the north is more of culture than just religion. Normally, the Hausa/Fulanis are people that have a different kind of thinking and culture which manifested in their way of practice of religion. Remember culture itself is a way of life.

They are using the hardcore part of the sunnah as their way of life and the law, they believe too much in Qadr which made them always think there is nothing in this world and they are always ready to die for their belief.

People that take religion too much to the core are prone to violence either Muslim or Christian as we have seen in earlier times during the crusades.

In USA, UK, Germany, and Nordic countries, Atheism is on the rise, infact Atheism is growing faster in these countries because they have seen that hardcore religion is toxic especially for people.

North is North while SW is SW. No matter how much you try to logically explains it, there will always be wide disparities among the two even if they practice thesame religion.

Nowenuse:
No, the problem of the north is religion. Hausas would have been a very progressive and lovely people if the fulanis (Danfodio) hadn't brought in toxic islam through the caliphate.

Hausas were already muslims before Danfodio came but they were mostly folk/liberal muslims like Yorubas are today.

Hausa culture of the old and what hausas call culture today is very very very different. Fulanis have destroyed the Hausa ethnic group.

European Christian Crusades were formed to counter the rapid spread of islam into Europe. Christianity as a religion hardly gives room for extremism which involves killings and wars unless if being pushed.

LegendHero:
What do you mean by recurring fracas? How many cases of fracas have we seen in recent times among them? Do you mean to say Christians don’t have fracas with traditionals in other part of the country too (SE, SS, NC). We always see the case of Christians praying at shrines and masquerade flogging pastors in the SS/SE, some of the news even featured on Nairaland.