₦airaland Forum

Alexandro15:
Can this guy read at all? Did you see anything about worship of Mary there? And yet, this is a summary of the Catholic faith.
How does it prove the fact that we worship Mary?

You know what, you are just like a zombie. Countless times we have given you reasons and told you we don't worship her, but you keep repeating the same questions over and over again. I doubt you can even comprehend anything. Little wonder you specialise in copying and pasting from the internet, since you don't even know how to argue or even sustain one.

Zombie, that is what you are. No apologies.

Are you that Naive to believe that crap?

In Nigeria corruption is consider illegal by the consistution.
but we all know that in reality corruption is rampant and a menace to our society.
Likewise your so called Creed, wheather it is written or not the fact remains that you Catholics have been observed just like the pictures I attached to this OP, to worship,bow,pray, praise and sing to Mary which is unbiblical.

If there is any positive to be derived from this Creed, is that it proves that Mary veneration is an anomaly which was never intended by your church hence the reason for it been omitted in your church Creed so it should be corrected.

That I have assisted you guys by pointing it out.

Alexandro15:
Can this guy read at all? Did you see anything about worship of Mary there? And yet, this is a summary of the Catholic faith.
How does it prove the fact that we worship Mary?

You know what, you are just like a zombie. Countless times we have given you reasons and told you we don't worship her, but you keep repeating the same questions over and over again. I doubt you can even comprehend anything. Little wonder you specialise in copying and pasting from the internet, since you don't even know how to argue or even sustain one.

Zombie, that is what you are. No apologies.

You have never given me any reason.

It's up to you to distinguish for me what it means to worship God and to venerate Mary in practical terms.

DownChelsea:
perhaps the opposite.

My church! Lol

What's amusing you?

DownChelsea:
your question is stupid. Even though you have been obliged with answers countless times. These people have told you they worship God not Mary(which is the ultimate answer to your unreasonable question).

The pharisee in you is what makes you keep arguing about imaginations in your botched mind.

None of you have ever given me any answer.

We can Start first with Bible verses that instruct us to venerate Mary.
Give me those Bible verses.

blueAgent:
None of you have ever given me any answer.

We can Start first with Bible verses that instruct us to venerate Mary.
Give me those Bible verses.

does a bible verse have to instruct you to venerate, love, care for, adore, sing to, speak for a thing, person, concept, an animal, a gift, anything at all that is dear to you?

blueAgent:
What's amusing you?

how easy it is to expose your ignorance.

You’ve been typing all sorts of funny things here, it’s also a thing of nature to react in amusememt

DownChelsea:
does a bible verse have to instruct you to venerate, love, care for, adore, sing to, speak for a thing, person, concept, an animal, a gift, anything at all that is dear to you?

Yes of course.

The Bible instructs us to honour our parents that's an example.

Exodus 20:12
Honor your father and your mother: that your days may be
long upon the land which the LORD your God gives you.

blueAgent:
Muslims are better than Catholics, at least they are not pretending that they deny Jesus compared to you guys who worship Mary And claim you only honour her

worshipper!

Mr. Christians defeated Muslims. Even your degree of bigotry (religious) is anti-christian.

Mr. antichrist

blueAgent:
Yes of course.

The Bible instructs us to honour our parents that's an example.

Exodus 20:12
Honor your father and your mother: that your days may be
long upon the land which the LORD your God gives you.

so, do you honour your teachers in school? And if you do, how greatly you have sinned since you were never instructed to do so.


Pharisee!

[quote author=blueAgent post=85197226][/quote]the truth is there for all to see.

Mr. Judge of muslims and “the real Christians” ( Catholics)

blueAgent:
As simple as this question is , you cannot answer .

if you don’t know “how else”? Then what do you know? That “qualifies” you for an argument with your superiors. Absolutely nothing. Start by “knowing” how to worship God

blueAgent:
Are you that Naive to believe that crap?

In Nigeria corruption is consider illegal by the consistution.
but we all know that in reality corruption is rampant and a menace to our society.
Likewise your so called Creed, wheather it is written or not the fact remains that you Catholics have been observed just like the pictures I attached to this OP, to worship,bow,pray, praise and sing to Mary which is unbiblical.

If there is any positive to be derived from this Creed, is that it proves that Mary veneration is an anomaly which was never intended by your church hence the reason for it been omitted in your church Creed so it should be corrected.

That I have assisted you guys by pointing it out.

Nonsense as usual. But I didn't expect more from one who is a pagan.

Even before the Nicene- Creed was formed, the church Father's of old had already honored, venerated and praised Mary for her role in Salvation's history. Church Father's such as Origen, St. Justin Matyr, St. Ireaneus, Tertullian, St. Gregory the wonder worker.

Church Fathers even continued the praise, honour and veneration of Mary after the Nicene-Creed. E.g St. Augustine, St. Jerome, St. John Crystostom, St. Cyril of Alexandria.




Bro, what is your point? You are just fooling yourself for all to see.

Alexandro15:
Nonsense as usual. But I didn't expect more from one who is a pagan.

Even before the Nicene- Creed was formed, the church Father's of old had already honored, venerated and praised Mary for her role in Salvation's history. Church Father's such as Origen, St. Justin Matyr, St. Ireaneus, Tertullian, St. Gregory the wonder worker.

Church Fathers even continued the praise, honour and veneration of Mary after the Nicene-Creed. E.g St. Augustine, St. Jerome, St. John Crystostom, St. Cyril of Alexandria.




Bro, what is your point? You are just fooling yourself for all to see.

You should have said Catholics church father's and not church father's in general because last time I checked the early Christains and disciples of Jesus never venerated any Mary.

DownChelsea:
so, do you honour your teachers in school? And if you do, how greatly you have sinned since you were never instructed to do so.


Pharisee!

I honour my parents and people but I don't pray to them, neither do I sing, praise and bow to them.

DownChelsea:
if you don’t know “how else”? Then what do you know? That “qualifies” you for an argument with your superiors. Absolutely nothing. Start by “knowing” how to worship God

For how long would you keep avoiding to answer my question?

The truth is that to pray,sing,praise and bow are all forms of worship which was practiced by different people in the Bible, who worshipped God or other gods.

So you claiming that you only venerate Mary while you pray,sing, praise, bow to her statue and image is a big lie.

DownChelsea:
worshipper!

Mr. Christians defeated Muslims. Even your degree of bigotry (religious) is anti-christian.

Mr. antichrist

I will take that as a compliment.

DownChelsea:
does a bible verse have to instruct you to venerate, love, care for, adore, sing to, speak for a thing, person, concept, an animal, a gift, anything at all that is dear to you?

THE MEANING OF WORSHIP
INTRODUCTION: One writer notes that:
"Worship in our time has been captured by the tourist mind
set. Worship is understood as a visit to an attractive site to be
made when we have adequate leisure. For some it is a weekly
jaunt to church. For others, occasional visits to special
services.. Some, with a bent for Christian entertainment and
sacred diversion, plan their lives around special events like
retreats, rallies and conferences. We go to see a new
personality, to hear a new truth, to get a new experience and
so, somehow, expand our otherwise humdrum lives. We'll try
anything -- until something else comes along."
Does this describe our attitude toward worship? What is
worship all about?
BODY
I. WHAT IS WORSHIP?
A. A look at both the original language and the origin of
the word in English will help us understand the meaning.
1. The primary Hebrew word for worship.
a. Shachah - "to depress, i.e. prostrate (in
homage to royalty or God): bow (self)
down, crouch, fall down (flat), humbly
beseech, do (make) obeisance, do
reverence, make to stoop, worship."
2. Three Greek words.
a. Proskuneo - "meaning to kiss, like a dog
licking his master's hand), to fawn or
crouch to, homage (do reverence to,
adore): worship." It occurs 59 times in the
New Testament. It originally carried with it
the idea of subjects falling down to kiss
the ground before a king or kiss their feet.
b. Sebomai - "to reverence, hold in awe."
Used 10 times in the New Testament.
c. Latreuo - "to render religious service of
homage." Used 21 times in the New
Testament.
3. The word in the English language.
a. Literally means to ascribe worth to
something.
4. True worship begins with a deep respect or
reverence for God, a frame of heart, an attitude.
This must be fixed in one's mind before we go
further. An "act" of worship is an act proceeding
from or the result of that attitude.
B. The Bible talks about several "kinds" of worship.
1. Ignorant Worship--Acts 17:22-31
a. Acts 17:23 - "for as I was passing
through and considering the objects of
your worship, I even found an altar with
this inscription: TO THE UNKNOWN GOD.
Therefore, the One whom you worship
without knowing, Him I proclaim to you:
b. Paul perceived that they were very
religious but he warned them that their
religious service was not pleasing to God
for it was done without knowledge of what
God wanted or even who God was.
c. Ignorant worship is like throwing darts
at a bulls eye while blindfolded--sure you
might hit the mark but more than
likely you will do a lot of damage
d. ignorant worship is not pleasing to God
for he is not glorified by accident, but by a
conscience praise of His name.
e. Such worship will never be pleasing to
God, for His will has been revealed (John
4:24).
f. God does not wink (tolerate) ignorance -
Acts 17:30.
2. Vain Worship
a. Matthew 15:7-9 "Hypocrites! Well did
Isaiah prophesy about you, saying: 8 -
'These people draw near to Me with
their mouth, And honor Me with their lips,
But their heart is far from Me. 9- And in
vain they worship Me, Teaching as
doctrines the commandments of men.'"
b. The Pharisees made their worship Vain
(useless) because they had layered on the
commandments of men to their
practices.
c. This is the attitude which changes what
God has said, does not respect what God
has said, and not obey what He has
commanded. See Leviticus 10:1-11.
3. Will Worship
a. Colossians 2:23 - Which things have
indeed a show of wisdom in will worship,
and humility, and neglecting of the body;
not in any honour to the satisfying of the
flesh. (KJV)
b. Colossians 2:23 - These things indeed
have an appearance of wisdom in self-
imposed religion, false humility, and
neglect of the body, but are of no value
against the indulgence of the flesh.
c. This is worship that centers in
satisfying self. This is the same type of
worship that we often have today, that
which calls for "audience centered"
worship.
4. True Worship.
a. John 4:23-24 "But the hour is coming,
and now is, when the true worshipers will
worship the Father in spirit and truth; for
the Father is seeking such to worship Him.
24 - "God is Spirit, and those who worship
Him must worship in spirit and truth."
II. THE CORRECT ELEMENTS OF WORSHIP
A. Worship is God centered.
1. Psalms 95:6 - Oh come, let us worship and
bow down; Let us kneel before the LORD our
Maker.
2. Acts 17:23 - "for as I was passing through and
considering the objects of your worship, I even
found an altar with this
inscription: TO THE UNKNOWN GOD. Therefore,
the One whom you worship without knowing, Him
I proclaim to you:
3. Hebrews 13:15 - Therefore by Him let us
continually offer the sacrifice of praise to God,
that is, the fruit of our
lips, giving thanks to His name.
4. One of the great errors in modern worship is
making it worshiper centered. Worship is to be
centered on praising God, not entertaining
ourselves.
a. We need to understand that the
blessings we receive from worship are a
by-product of our worship and not the
focus. In worship we come to do and give,
not receive.
b. The effort to "get more" out of worship
has led to all types of artificial, superficial,
and unscriptural gimmicks to "liven up"
worship periods. Such IS NOT
WORSHIPING GOD; it is bowing to altar of
the social gospel.
c. Our problem is that we have determined
that we have a problem but have not
correctly diagnosed the problem. The
problem is not with the content of our
worship. The problem is with our hearts.
We are so materialistic and carnal minded
that we cannot center our minds of
praising God and need artificial stimulation
to "feel" spiritual.
B. The correct place of our worship.
1. Anyplace where God's people dwell.
2. Acts 17:24-25 "God, who made the world and
everything in it, since He is Lord of heaven and
earth, does not dwell in temples made with
hands. 25- "Nor is He worshiped with men's
hands, as though He needed anything, since He
gives to all life, breath, and all things.
3. This is the truth that Jesus revealed to the
Samaritan woman.
a. John 4:20-21 "Our fathers worshiped on
this mountain, and you Jews say that in
Jerusalem is the place where one ought to
worship." 21 - Jesus said to her, "Woman,
believe Me, the hour is coming when you
will neither on this mountain, nor in
Jerusalem, worship the Father."
C. There must be a combining of reverence toward God
and worshiping according to the truth of God's will.
1. John 4:24
2. Joshua 24:14 - "Now therefore, fear the LORD,
serve Him in sincerity and in truth, and put away
the gods which your fathers served on the other
side of the River and in Egypt. Serve the LORD!
CONCLUSION: The child of God does not need special
stimulants to bring about proper worship. He centers his life
on pleasing God, therefore he is always happy to come before
the throne of grace in praise to the King.

Alexandro15:
Nonsense as usual. But I didn't expect more from one who is a pagan.

Even before the Nicene- Creed was formed, the church Father's of old had already honored, venerated and praised Mary for her role in Salvation's history. Church Father's such as Origen, St. Justin Matyr, St. Ireaneus, Tertullian, St. Gregory the wonder worker.

Church Fathers even continued the praise, honour and veneration of Mary after the Nicene-Creed. E.g St. Augustine, St. Jerome, St. John Crystostom, St. Cyril of Alexandria.




Bro, what is your point? You are just fooling yourself for all to see.

THE MEANING OF WORSHIP
INTRODUCTION: One writer notes that:
"Worship in our time has been captured by the tourist mind
set. Worship is understood as a visit to an attractive site to be
made when we have adequate leisure. For some it is a weekly
jaunt to church. For others, occasional visits to special
services.. Some, with a bent for Christian entertainment and
sacred diversion, plan their lives around special events like
retreats, rallies and conferences. We go to see a new
personality, to hear a new truth, to get a new experience and
so, somehow, expand our otherwise humdrum lives. We'll try
anything -- until something else comes along."
Does this describe our attitude toward worship? What is
worship all about?
BODY
I. WHAT IS WORSHIP?
A. A look at both the original language and the origin of
the word in English will help us understand the meaning.
1. The primary Hebrew word for worship.
a. Shachah - "to depress, i.e. prostrate (in
homage to royalty or God): bow (self)
down, crouch, fall down (flat), humbly
beseech, do (make) obeisance, do
reverence, make to stoop, worship."
2. Three Greek words.
a. Proskuneo - "meaning to kiss, like a dog
licking his master's hand), to fawn or
crouch to, homage (do reverence to,
adore): worship." It occurs 59 times in the
New Testament. It originally carried with it
the idea of subjects falling down to kiss
the ground before a king or kiss their feet.
b. Sebomai - "to reverence, hold in awe."
Used 10 times in the New Testament.
c. Latreuo - "to render religious service of
homage." Used 21 times in the New
Testament.
3. The word in the English language.
a. Literally means to ascribe worth to
something.
4. True worship begins with a deep respect or
reverence for God, a frame of heart, an attitude.
This must be fixed in one's mind before we go
further. An "act" of worship is an act proceeding
from or the result of that attitude.
B. The Bible talks about several "kinds" of worship.
1. Ignorant Worship--Acts 17:22-31
a. Acts 17:23 - "for as I was passing
through and considering the objects of
your worship, I even found an altar with
this inscription: TO THE UNKNOWN GOD.
Therefore, the One whom you worship
without knowing, Him I proclaim to you:
b. Paul perceived that they were very
religious but he warned them that their
religious service was not pleasing to God
for it was done without knowledge of what
God wanted or even who God was.
c. Ignorant worship is like throwing darts
at a bulls eye while blindfolded--sure you
might hit the mark but more than
likely you will do a lot of damage
d. ignorant worship is not pleasing to God
for he is not glorified by accident, but by a
conscience praise of His name.
e. Such worship will never be pleasing to
God, for His will has been revealed (John
4:24).
f. God does not wink (tolerate) ignorance -
Acts 17:30.
2. Vain Worship
a. Matthew 15:7-9 "Hypocrites! Well did
Isaiah prophesy about you, saying: 8 -
'These people draw near to Me with
their mouth, And honor Me with their lips,
But their heart is far from Me. 9- And in
vain they worship Me, Teaching as
doctrines the commandments of men.'"
b. The Pharisees made their worship Vain
(useless) because they had layered on the
commandments of men to their
practices.
c. This is the attitude which changes what
God has said, does not respect what God
has said, and not obey what He has
commanded. See Leviticus 10:1-11.
3. Will Worship
a. Colossians 2:23 - Which things have
indeed a show of wisdom in will worship,
and humility, and neglecting of the body;
not in any honour to the satisfying of the
flesh. (KJV)
b. Colossians 2:23 - These things indeed
have an appearance of wisdom in self-
imposed religion, false humility, and
neglect of the body, but are of no value
against the indulgence of the flesh.
c. This is worship that centers in
satisfying self. This is the same type of
worship that we often have today, that
which calls for "audience centered"
worship.
4. True Worship.
a. John 4:23-24 "But the hour is coming,
and now is, when the true worshipers will
worship the Father in spirit and truth; for
the Father is seeking such to worship Him.
24 - "God is Spirit, and those who worship
Him must worship in spirit and truth."
II. THE CORRECT ELEMENTS OF WORSHIP
A. Worship is God centered.
1. Psalms 95:6 - Oh come, let us worship and
bow down; Let us kneel before the LORD our
Maker.
2. Acts 17:23 - "for as I was passing through and
considering the objects of your worship, I even
found an altar with this
inscription: TO THE UNKNOWN GOD. Therefore,
the One whom you worship without knowing, Him
I proclaim to you:
3. Hebrews 13:15 - Therefore by Him let us
continually offer the sacrifice of praise to God,
that is, the fruit of our
lips, giving thanks to His name.
4. One of the great errors in modern worship is
making it worshiper centered. Worship is to be
centered on praising God, not entertaining
ourselves.
a. We need to understand that the
blessings we receive from worship are a
by-product of our worship and not the
focus. In worship we come to do and give,
not receive.
b. The effort to "get more" out of worship
has led to all types of artificial, superficial,
and unscriptural gimmicks to "liven up"
worship periods. Such IS NOT
WORSHIPING GOD; it is bowing to altar of
the social gospel.
c. Our problem is that we have determined
that we have a problem but have not
correctly diagnosed the problem. The
problem is not with the content of our
worship. The problem is with our hearts.
We are so materialistic and carnal minded
that we cannot center our minds of
praising God and need artificial stimulation
to "feel" spiritual.
B. The correct place of our worship.
1. Anyplace where God's people dwell.
2. Acts 17:24-25 "God, who made the world and
everything in it, since He is Lord of heaven and
earth, does not dwell in temples made with
hands. 25- "Nor is He worshiped with men's
hands, as though He needed anything, since He
gives to all life, breath, and all things.
3. This is the truth that Jesus revealed to the
Samaritan woman.
a. John 4:20-21 "Our fathers worshiped on
this mountain, and you Jews say that in
Jerusalem is the place where one ought to
worship." 21 - Jesus said to her, "Woman,
believe Me, the hour is coming when you
will neither on this mountain, nor in
Jerusalem, worship the Father."
C. There must be a combining of reverence toward God
and worshiping according to the truth of God's will.
1. John 4:24
2. Joshua 24:14 - "Now therefore, fear the LORD,
serve Him in sincerity and in truth, and put away
the gods which your fathers served on the other
side of the River and in Egypt. Serve the LORD!
CONCLUSION: The child of God does not need special
stimulants to bring about proper worship. He centers his life
on pleasing God, therefore he is always happy to come before
the throne of grace in praise to the King.

Alexandro15:
Nonsense as usual. But I didn't expect more from one who is a pagan.

Even before the Nicene- Creed was formed, the church Father's of old had already honored, venerated and praised Mary for her role in Salvation's history. Church Father's such as Origen, St. Justin Matyr, St. Ireaneus, Tertullian, St. Gregory the wonder worker.

Church Fathers even continued the praise, honour and veneration of Mary after the Nicene-Creed. E.g St. Augustine, St. Jerome, St. John Crystostom, St. Cyril of Alexandria.




Bro, what is your point? You are just fooling yourself for all to see.

What is the
difference between
veneration and
worship?
Question: "What is the difference between
veneration and worship?"
Answer: In response to the accusation that they
worship Mary and the saints , Catholics will often
claim that they “venerate,” not worship, them. To
venerate is to regard with great respect or to revere.
Veneration can be defined as “respect or awe
directed toward someone due to his/her value or
greatness.”
The simplest definition of worship is to “ascribe
worth.” Worship can be more completely defined as
“showing respect, love, reverence, or adoration.”
Based on the dictionary, no clear difference between
veneration and worship exists. In fact, veneration
and worship are often used as synonyms for each
other.
But dictionary definitions are not the point. It does
not matter what it is called. The Bible nowhere
instructs followers of Jesus Christ to offer worship,
veneration, adoration, or anything similar to anyone
but God. Nowhere does the New Testament describe
any followers of Jesus Christ worshipping,
venerating, or adoring anyone other than God. They
did not receive worship, either. Peter refused to
receive adoration from Cornelius (Acts 10:25–26 ),
and Paul and Barnabas were equally adamant that
the people of Lystra not venerate them (Acts 14:15 ).
Twice in the Book of Revelation (Revelation 19:10 ;
22:8 ), the apostle John begins to worship an angel,
and the angel instructs him, “Worship God!” Mary
and the saints who have gone to heaven before us
would say the same thing: “Worship God!”
The Catholic Church has different degrees of
worship: dulia, hyper dulia, and latria. Dulia is the
honor given to the saints. Hyper dulia is the honor
given to Mary alone, as the greatest of the saints.
Latria is the honor given to God alone. In contrast,
the Bible always ascribes honor, in the context of
worship, to God alone (1 Chronicles 29:11 ; 1
Timothy 1:17 ; 6:16 ; Revelation 4:11 ; 5:13 ). Even if
there were biblical support for different levels of
worship, there still would be no biblical support for
offering lower/lesser levels of worship to anyone
other than God.
Only God is worthy of worship, adoration, praise
(Nehemiah 9:6 ; Revelation 4:11 ; 15:4 ), and
veneration, no matter how it is defined. Mary’s worth
comes from the fact that God choose her for a
glorious role and saved her from her sins through
the death of Jesus Christ (Luke 1:47 ). The saints’
worth comes from the fact that God saved them,
transformed them, and then used them in mighty
and amazing ways. May we all, with Mary and the
saints, fall on our knees and worship the only One
who is worthy.

https://www.gotquestions.org/veneration.html

blueAgent:
THE MEANING OF WORSHIP
INTRODUCTION: One writer notes that:
"Worship in our time has been captured by the tourist mind
set. Worship is understood as a visit to an attractive site to be
made when we have adequate leisure. For some it is a weekly
jaunt to church. For others, occasional visits to special
services.. Some, with a bent for Christian entertainment and
sacred diversion, plan their lives around special events like
retreats, rallies and conferences. We go to see a new
personality, to hear a new truth, to get a new experience and
so, somehow, expand our otherwise humdrum lives. We'll try
anything -- until something else comes along."
Does this describe our attitude toward worship? What is
worship all about?
BODY
I. WHAT IS WORSHIP?
A. A look at both the original language and the origin of
the word in English will help us understand the meaning.
1. The primary Hebrew word for worship.
a. Shachah - "to depress, i.e. prostrate (in
homage to royalty or God): bow (self)
down, crouch, fall down (flat), humbly
beseech, do (make) obeisance, do
reverence, make to stoop, worship."
2. Three Greek words.
a. Proskuneo - "meaning to kiss, like a dog
licking his master's hand), to fawn or
crouch to, homage (do reverence to,
adore): worship." It occurs 59 times in the
New Testament. It originally carried with it
the idea of subjects falling down to kiss
the ground before a king or kiss their feet.
b. Sebomai - "to reverence, hold in awe."
Used 10 times in the New Testament.
c. Latreuo - "to render religious service of
homage." Used 21 times in the New
Testament.
3. The word in the English language.
a. Literally means to ascribe worth to
something.
4. True worship begins with a deep respect or
reverence for God, a frame of heart, an attitude.
This must be fixed in one's mind before we go
further. An "act" of worship is an act proceeding
from or the result of that attitude.
B. The Bible talks about several "kinds" of worship.
1. Ignorant Worship--Acts 17:22-31
a. Acts 17:23 - "for as I was passing
through and considering the objects of
your worship, I even found an altar with
this inscription: TO THE UNKNOWN GOD.
Therefore, the One whom you worship
without knowing, Him I proclaim to you:
b. Paul perceived that they were very
religious but he warned them that their
religious service was not pleasing to God
for it was done without knowledge of what
God wanted or even who God was.
c. Ignorant worship is like throwing darts
at a bulls eye while blindfolded--sure you
might hit the mark but more than
likely you will do a lot of damage
d. ignorant worship is not pleasing to God
for he is not glorified by accident, but by a
conscience praise of His name.
e. Such worship will never be pleasing to
God, for His will has been revealed (John
4:24).
f. God does not wink (tolerate) ignorance -
Acts 17:30.
2. Vain Worship
a. Matthew 15:7-9 "Hypocrites! Well did
Isaiah prophesy about you, saying: 8 -
'These people draw near to Me with
their mouth, And honor Me with their lips,
But their heart is far from Me. 9- And in
vain they worship Me, Teaching as
doctrines the commandments of men.'"
b. The Pharisees made their worship Vain
(useless) because they had layered on the
commandments of men to their
practices.
c. This is the attitude which changes what
God has said, does not respect what God
has said, and not obey what He has
commanded. See Leviticus 10:1-11.
3. Will Worship
a. Colossians 2:23 - Which things have
indeed a show of wisdom in will worship,
and humility, and neglecting of the body;
not in any honour to the satisfying of the
flesh. (KJV)
b. Colossians 2:23 - These things indeed
have an appearance of wisdom in self-
imposed religion, false humility, and
neglect of the body, but are of no value
against the indulgence of the flesh.
c. This is worship that centers in
satisfying self. This is the same type of
worship that we often have today, that
which calls for "audience centered"
worship.
4. True Worship.
a. John 4:23-24 "But the hour is coming,
and now is, when the true worshipers will
worship the Father in spirit and truth; for
the Father is seeking such to worship Him.
24 - "God is Spirit, and those who worship
Him must worship in spirit and truth."
II. THE CORRECT ELEMENTS OF WORSHIP
A. Worship is God centered.
1. Psalms 95:6 - Oh come, let us worship and
bow down; Let us kneel before the LORD our
Maker.
2. Acts 17:23 - "for as I was passing through and
considering the objects of your worship, I even
found an altar with this
inscription: TO THE UNKNOWN GOD. Therefore,
the One whom you worship without knowing, Him
I proclaim to you:
3. Hebrews 13:15 - Therefore by Him let us
continually offer the sacrifice of praise to God,
that is, the fruit of our
lips, giving thanks to His name.
4. One of the great errors in modern worship is
making it worshiper centered. Worship is to be
centered on praising God, not entertaining
ourselves.
a. We need to understand that the
blessings we receive from worship are a
by-product of our worship and not the
focus. In worship we come to do and give,
not receive.
b. The effort to "get more" out of worship
has led to all types of artificial, superficial,
and unscriptural gimmicks to "liven up"
worship periods. Such IS NOT
WORSHIPING GOD; it is bowing to altar of
the social gospel.
c. Our problem is that we have determined
that we have a problem but have not
correctly diagnosed the problem. The
problem is not with the content of our
worship. The problem is with our hearts.
We are so materialistic and carnal minded
that we cannot center our minds of
praising God and need artificial stimulation
to "feel" spiritual.
B. The correct place of our worship.
1. Anyplace where God's people dwell.
2. Acts 17:24-25 "God, who made the world and
everything in it, since He is Lord of heaven and
earth, does not dwell in temples made with
hands. 25- "Nor is He worshiped with men's
hands, as though He needed anything, since He
gives to all life, breath, and all things.
3. This is the truth that Jesus revealed to the
Samaritan woman.
a. John 4:20-21 "Our fathers worshiped on
this mountain, and you Jews say that in
Jerusalem is the place where one ought to
worship." 21 - Jesus said to her, "Woman,
believe Me, the hour is coming when you
will neither on this mountain, nor in
Jerusalem, worship the Father."
C. There must be a combining of reverence toward God
and worshiping according to the truth of God's will.
1. John 4:24
2. Joshua 24:14 - "Now therefore, fear the LORD,
serve Him in sincerity and in truth, and put away
the gods which your fathers served on the other
side of the River and in Egypt. Serve the LORD!
CONCLUSION: The child of God does not need special
stimulants to bring about proper worship. He centers his life
on pleasing God, therefore he is always happy to come before
the throne of grace in praise to the King.

what does your faulty opinion/conclusions change?

blueAgent:
I will take that as a compliment.

you sure have a talent of irony application. Whatever makes you feel alive to yourself!! Enjoy

blueAgent:
For how long would you keep avoiding to answer my question?

The truth is that to pray,sing,praise and bow are all forms of worship which was practiced by different people in the Bible, who worshipped God or other gods.

So you claiming that you only venerate Mary while you pray,sing, praise, bow to her statue and image is a big lie.

Chief Judge!! We hail thee

Alexandro15:
Nonsense as usual. But I didn't expect more from one who is a pagan.

Even before the Nicene- Creed was formed, the church Father's of old had already honored, venerated and praised Mary for her role in Salvation's history. Church Father's such as Origen, St. Justin Matyr, St. Ireaneus, Tertullian, St. Gregory the wonder worker.

Church Fathers even continued the praise, honour and veneration of Mary after the Nicene-Creed. E.g St. Augustine, St. Jerome, St. John Crystostom, St. Cyril of Alexandria.




Bro, what is your point? You are just fooling yourself for all to see.

Is worship of
saints / Mary
biblical?
Question: "Is worship of saints / Mary biblical?"
Answer: The Bible is absolutely clear that we are to
worship God alone. The only instances of anyone
other than God receiving worship in the Bible are
false gods, which are Satan and his demons. All
followers of the Lord God refuse worship. Peter and
the apostles refused to be worshipped (Acts 10:25–
26; 14:13–14 ). The holy angels refuse to be
worshipped ( Revelation 19:10 ; 22:9 ). The response
is always the same, “Worship God!”
Roman Catholics attempt to “bypass” these clear
Scriptural principles by claiming they do not
“worship” Mary or saints, but rather that they only
“ venerate ” Mary and the saints. Using a different
word does not change the essence of what is being
done. A definition of “venerate” is “to regard with
respect or reverence.” Nowhere in the Bible are we
told to revere anyone but God alone. There is
nothing wrong with respecting those faithful
Christians who have gone before us (see Hebrews
chapter 11). There is nothing wrong with honoring
Mary as the earthly mother of Jesus. The Bible
describes Mary as “highly favored” by God (Luke
1:28 ). At the same time, there is no instruction in the
Bible to revere those who have gone to heaven. We
are to follow their example, yes, but worship, revere,
or venerate, no!
When forced to admit that they do, in fact, worship
Mary, Catholics will claim that they worship God
through her, by praising the wonderful creation that
God has made. Mary, in their minds, is the most
beautiful and wonderful creation of God, and by
praising her, they are praising her Creator. For
Catholics, this is analogous to directing praise to an
artist by praising his sculpture or painting. The
problem with this is that God explicitly commands
against worshipping Him through created things. We
are not to bow down and worship the form of
anything in heaven above or earth below (Exodus
20:4–5 ). Romans 1:25 could not be more clear:
“They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and
worshiped and served created things rather than the
Creator—who is forever praised. Amen.” Yes, God
has created wonderful and amazing things. Yes,
Mary was a godly woman who is worthy of our
respect. No, we absolutely are not to worship God
“vicariously” by praising things (or people) He has
created. Doing so is blatant idolatry.
The major way Catholics “venerate” Mary and the
saints is by praying to them. But prayer to anyone
other than God alone is anti-biblical. Whether Mary
and/or the saints are prayed to, or whether they are
petitioned for their prayers—neither practice is
biblical. Prayer is an act of worship. When we pray
to God, we are admitting that we need His help.
Directing our prayers to anyone other than God is
robbing God of the glory that is His alone.
Another way Catholics “venerate” Mary and the
saints is by creating statues and images of them.
Many Catholics use images of Mary and/or the
saints as “good luck charms.” Any cursory reading
of the Bible will reveal this practice as blatant
idolatry (Exodus 20:4–6 ; 1 Corinthians 12:1–2 ; 1
John 5:21 ). Rubbing rosary beads is idolatry.
Lighting candles before a statue or portrayal of a
saint is idolatry. Burying a Joseph statue in hopes of
selling your home (and countless other Catholic
practices) is idolatry.
The terminology is not the issue. Whether the
practice is described as “worship” or “veneration” or
any other term, the problem is the same. Any time
we ascribe something that belongs to God to
someone else, it is idolatry. The Bible nowhere
instructs us to revere, pray to, rely on, or “idolize”
anyone other than God. We are to worship God
alone. Glory, praise, and honor belong to God alone.
Only God is worthy to “receive glory and honor and
power” (Revelation 4:11 ). God alone is worthy to
receive our worship, adoration, and praise
(Nehemiah 9:6 ; Revelation 15:4 ).

DownChelsea:
worshipper!

Mr. Christians defeated Muslims. Even your degree of bigotry (religious) is anti-christian.

Mr. antichrist

Is prayer to saints /
Mary biblical?
Question: "Is prayer to saints / Mary biblical?"
Answer: The official position of the Roman Catholic
Church is that Catholics do not pray to saints in
heaven or to Mary; rather, Catholics are taught they
can ask saints or Mary to pray for them. According
to the Roman Catholic Church, asking saints in
heaven for their prayers is no different from asking
someone here on earth to pray for us.
Despite official Catholic claims, it’s hard to see how
the words of the Memorare, a famous Catholic
prayer, are not a direct petition to Mary:
“Remember, most loving Virgin Mary,
never was it heard
that anyone who turned to you for help
was left unaided. . . .
I run to your protection
for you are my mother.”
The same can be said for the words of another
traditional Catholic prayer, “Hail, Holy Queen”:
“ Hail, holy Queen, Mother of mercy,
hail, our life, our sweetness, and our hope.
To you we cry, the children of Eve;
to you we send up our sighs,
mourning and weeping in this land of exile.
Turn, then, most gracious advocate,
your eyes of mercy toward us;
lead us home at last.”
(from A Book of Prayers , 1982, International
Committee on English in the Liturgy, Inc.)
In practice, many Catholics diverge from official
Roman Catholic teaching on prayer. Many Catholics
do, in fact, pray directly to saints and/or Mary, as
seen in the above prayers. Even in cases in which
Mary or a saint is simply being asked to pray, the
practice has no biblical basis.
The Bible nowhere instructs believers in Christ to
pray to anyone other than God. The Bible nowhere
encourages, or even mentions, believers asking
individuals in heaven for their prayers. Why, then, do
many Catholics pray to Mary and/or saints such as
Gertrude, Rita, Sylvester, Vincent, Agnes, etc.? Why
do they petition the dead to request their prayers?
Catholics view Mary and the saints as “intercessors”
before God. They believe that a saint, who is
glorified in heaven, has more “direct access” to God
than we sinners do from our earthly vantage point.
In Catholic thinking, if a saint delivers a prayer to
God, it is more effective than our praying to God
directly. This concept is blatantly unbiblical.
Hebrews 4:16 tells us that we, believers here on
earth, have direct access to God and can “approach
the throne of grace with confidence.”
No saint can take Jesus’ place: “There is one God
and one mediator between God and men, the man
Christ Jesus” ( 1 Timothy 2:5 ). There is no one else
who can mediate with God for us. Since Jesus is
the only mediator , Mary and the saints cannot be
mediators. Further, the Bible tells us that Jesus
Christ Himself is interceding for us before the Father:
“He is able to save completely those who come to
God through Him, because He always lives to
intercede for them” (Hebrews 7:25 ). With Jesus
Himself interceding for us, why would we need Mary
or the saints to intercede for us? Whom would God
listen to more readily than His only begotten Son?
Romans 8:26–27 says the Holy Spirit is also
interceding for us. With the second and third
Persons of the Trinity already interceding for us
before the Father, why would we need to have Mary
or the saints interceding for us?
Catholics argue that praying to Mary and the saints
is no different than asking someone here on earth to
pray for us. Let us examine that claim: (1) Asking
other believers (on earth) to pray for us is certainly
biblical (2 Corinthians 1:11 ; Ephesians 1:16 ;
Philippians 1:19 ; 2 Timothy 1:3 ). The apostle Paul
asks other Christians to pray for him in Ephesians
6:19 . (2) The Bible nowhere mentions anyone asking
for someone in heaven to pray for him. The Bible
nowhere describes anyone in heaven praying for
anyone on earth. (3) The Bible gives absolutely no
indication that Mary or the saints can hear our
prayers. Mary and the saints are not omniscient.
Even glorified in heaven, they are still finite beings
with limitations. How could they possibly hear the
prayers of millions of people? (4) Whenever the Bible
mentions praying to or speaking with the dead, it is
in the context of sorcery, witchcraft, necromancy,
and divination—activities the Bible strongly
condemns ( Leviticus 20:27 ; Deuteronomy 18:10–
13). In the one instance when a dead “saint” is
addressed by a living person, the saint, Samuel, is
not exactly happy to be disturbed ( 1 Samuel 28:7–
19). Praying to Mary or the saints is completely
different from asking a friend here on earth to pray
for us. Asking people on earth to pray for us has a
strong biblical basis; asking the heavenly saints or
Mary to pray has no biblical basis whatsoever.
It is wrong to think that God will hear and answer
the prayers of St. Jude, for example, over yours.
Scripture teaches that prayer offered to God in faith,
according to God’s will, from a redeemed heart will
be heard. As an example, “Elijah was a human
being, even as we are. He prayed earnestly that it
would not rain, and it did not rain on the land for
three and a half years. Again he prayed, and the
heavens gave rain, and the earth produced its
crops” (James 5:17–18 ).
There is absolutely no scriptural basis to pray to
anyone other than God alone. There is no need to,
either. Jesus, our Intercessor, has it covered. No one
in heaven can mediate on our behalf except for
Jesus Christ. Only God can hear and answer our
prayers. The temple veil was torn in two ( Hebrews
10:19–20 ); the child of God on earth has just as
much access to God’s throne of grace, in Jesus’
name, than anyone in heaven (Hebrews 4:16 ).

https://www.gotquestions.org/prayer-saints-Mary.html

blueAgent:
I honour my parents and people but I don't pray to them, neither do I sing, praise and bow to them.

your life, your ignorance, your rules. Who cares?

Others sing to people, praise people, and respect people (without worshiping the said people).

Only a fool would argue with a man about his own convictions.

blueAgent:
Is prayer to saints /
Mary biblical?
Question: "Is prayer to saints / Mary biblical?"
Answer: The official position of the Roman Catholic
Church is that Catholics do not pray to saints in
heaven or to Mary; rather, Catholics are taught they
can ask saints or Mary to pray for them. According
to the Roman Catholic Church, asking saints in
heaven for their prayers is no different from asking
someone here on earth to pray for us.
Despite official Catholic claims, it’s hard to see how
the words of the Memorare, a famous Catholic
prayer, are not a direct petition to Mary:
“Remember, most loving Virgin Mary,
never was it heard
that anyone who turned to you for help
was left unaided. . . .
I run to your protection
for you are my mother.”
The same can be said for the words of another
traditional Catholic prayer, “Hail, Holy Queen”:
“ Hail, holy Queen, Mother of mercy,
hail, our life, our sweetness, and our hope.
To you we cry, the children of Eve;
to you we send up our sighs,
mourning and weeping in this land of exile.
Turn, then, most gracious advocate,
your eyes of mercy toward us;
lead us home at last.”
(from A Book of Prayers , 1982, International
Committee on English in the Liturgy, Inc.)
In practice, many Catholics diverge from official
Roman Catholic teaching on prayer. Many Catholics
do, in fact, pray directly to saints and/or Mary, as
seen in the above prayers. Even in cases in which
Mary or a saint is simply being asked to pray, the
practice has no biblical basis.
The Bible nowhere instructs believers in Christ to
pray to anyone other than God. The Bible nowhere
encourages, or even mentions, believers asking
individuals in heaven for their prayers. Why, then, do
many Catholics pray to Mary and/or saints such as
Gertrude, Rita, Sylvester, Vincent, Agnes, etc.? Why
do they petition the dead to request their prayers?
Catholics view Mary and the saints as “intercessors”
before God. They believe that a saint, who is
glorified in heaven, has more “direct access” to God
than we sinners do from our earthly vantage point.
In Catholic thinking, if a saint delivers a prayer to
God, it is more effective than our praying to God
directly. This concept is blatantly unbiblical.
Hebrews 4:16 tells us that we, believers here on
earth, have direct access to God and can “approach
the throne of grace with confidence.”
No saint can take Jesus’ place: “There is one God
and one mediator between God and men, the man
Christ Jesus” ( 1 Timothy 2:5 ). There is no one else
who can mediate with God for us. Since Jesus is
the only mediator , Mary and the saints cannot be
mediators. Further, the Bible tells us that Jesus
Christ Himself is interceding for us before the Father:
“He is able to save completely those who come to
God through Him, because He always lives to
intercede for them” (Hebrews 7:25 ). With Jesus
Himself interceding for us, why would we need Mary
or the saints to intercede for us? Whom would God
listen to more readily than His only begotten Son?
Romans 8:26–27 says the Holy Spirit is also
interceding for us. With the second and third
Persons of the Trinity already interceding for us
before the Father, why would we need to have Mary
or the saints interceding for us?
Catholics argue that praying to Mary and the saints
is no different than asking someone here on earth to
pray for us. Let us examine that claim: (1) Asking
other believers (on earth) to pray for us is certainly
biblical (2 Corinthians 1:11 ; Ephesians 1:16 ;
Philippians 1:19 ; 2 Timothy 1:3 ). The apostle Paul
asks other Christians to pray for him in Ephesians
6:19 . (2) The Bible nowhere mentions anyone asking
for someone in heaven to pray for him. The Bible
nowhere describes anyone in heaven praying for
anyone on earth. (3) The Bible gives absolutely no
indication that Mary or the saints can hear our
prayers. Mary and the saints are not omniscient.
Even glorified in heaven, they are still finite beings
with limitations. How could they possibly hear the
prayers of millions of people? (4) Whenever the Bible
mentions praying to or speaking with the dead, it is
in the context of sorcery, witchcraft, necromancy,
and divination—activities the Bible strongly
condemns ( Leviticus 20:27 ; Deuteronomy 18:10–
13). In the one instance when a dead “saint” is
addressed by a living person, the saint, Samuel, is
not exactly happy to be disturbed ( 1 Samuel 28:7–
19). Praying to Mary or the saints is completely
different from asking a friend here on earth to pray
for us. Asking people on earth to pray for us has a
strong biblical basis; asking the heavenly saints or
Mary to pray has no biblical basis whatsoever.
It is wrong to think that God will hear and answer
the prayers of St. Jude, for example, over yours.
Scripture teaches that prayer offered to God in faith,
according to God’s will, from a redeemed heart will
be heard. As an example, “Elijah was a human
being, even as we are. He prayed earnestly that it
would not rain, and it did not rain on the land for
three and a half years. Again he prayed, and the
heavens gave rain, and the earth produced its
crops” (James 5:17–18 ).
There is absolutely no scriptural basis to pray to
anyone other than God alone. There is no need to,
either. Jesus, our Intercessor, has it covered. No one
in heaven can mediate on our behalf except for
Jesus Christ. Only God can hear and answer our
prayers. The temple veil was torn in two ( Hebrews
10:19–20 ); the child of God on earth has just as
much access to God’s throne of grace, in Jesus’
name, than anyone in heaven (Hebrews 4:16 ).

https://www.gotquestions.org/prayer-saints-Mary.html

Originator of Christianity!
Judge of Christians!

DownChelsea:
worshipper!

Mr. Christians defeated Muslims. Even your degree of bigotry (religious) is anti-christian.

Mr. antichrist

So how exactly is "worship"
defined? if you kneel before the picture of Mary (or a saint)
and you pray to him/her... is that not exactly what you do
when you kneel and pray in front of a picture of Jesus?

Alexandro15:
Nonsense as usual. But I didn't expect more from one who is a pagan.

Even before the Nicene- Creed was formed, the church Father's of old had already honored, venerated and praised Mary for her role in Salvation's history. Church Father's such as Origen, St. Justin Matyr, St. Ireaneus, Tertullian, St. Gregory the wonder worker.

Church Fathers even continued the praise, honour and veneration of Mary after the Nicene-Creed. E.g St. Augustine, St. Jerome, St. John Crystostom, St. Cyril of Alexandria.




Bro, what is your point? You are just fooling yourself for all to see.

So how exactly is "worship" defined? if you kneel before the picture of Mary (or a saint)
and you pray to him/her... is that not exactly what you do
when you kneel and pray in front of a picture of Jesus?

blueAgent:
So how exactly is "worship" defined? if you kneel before the picture of Mary (or a saint)
and you pray to him/her... is that not exactly what you do
when you kneel and pray in front of a picture of Jesus?

fixated obsessed pharisee!
Who has refused to get anything correct

blueAgent:
So how exactly is "worship"
defined? if you kneel before the picture of Mary (or a saint)
and you pray to him/her... is that not exactly what you do
when you kneel and pray in front of a picture of Jesus?

go to school 1st. No one would oblige you with English lectures here.

DownChelsea:
go to school 1st. No one would oblige you with English lectures here.

Is this all you can respond with?

blueAgent:
Is this all you can respond with?

absolutely.
AND
it was a golden response. Fully deserved by you. A favour I did you.