blueAgent:


Afraid of what? do you know the number of articles and sites I consulted why writing this article and many more on my blog?


The site did nothing, to refute my argument other then the usual we don't worship her we only venerate her.

but the question is how do you say you only venerate her when you demonstrate or give to her all the honour that should be reserved for God?

blueAgent:



There is nothing to think about. it's obvious Catholics worship Mary.

blueAgent:



Is not what I think but what I see.

First we are warned not to bow to any image weather in Heaven or Earth, We are told to pray only through one medium and that is Jesus, the Bible also instructs us to love God only with all our hearts and many more examples but no where are we instructed to do the same to Mary.

blueAgent:


Where did you learn or read this from, how do we trust your source?

sonmvayina:


Read the old testament first.. Start from Genesis.. Or better still find the places that talks about the promised Messiah and see if Jesus meets any of the requirements.. Or accomplish what God promised he would accomplish..
One thing I know, he was not coming to die for sins, because God already gave them a solution to the problem of sin in 2nd Chronicles 7 :14.. Read it and see for yourself..

DownChelsea:
exactly. Did Catholics tell you they do otherwise? Have you even asked them? When the bible tells you not to bow to images, do you know the REAL connotations? Is everything in the bible “literal” in interpretation? Don’t lawyers bow to judges in courts? Do they do so OUT OF WORSHIP? Don’t people (even Christians) wear rings as a sign of marriage? Is it biblically prescribed? Don’t you eat rice? Does the bible ask you to do so? Don’t people bow to their parents (as show of respect)? Does it mean they do so OUT OF WORSHIP?


You cannot worship something “as your God” without having intention to do so. Have you asked catholics if their intended honor for saints is done with intention to worship the saints “as their God”? I believe they have answered you. Haven’t they?

Those that bowed to images/items in the bible, Didn’t they do so WITH THE INTENTION OF WORSHIPING SUCH ITEMS AS THEIR god? Do Catholics do the same?

Do you not bow to danfos and kekes before boarding? Did you intend to worship them? Don’t you give utmost respect and honor to your parents? Do you worship them merely cos of that?

What you worship stays in your heart.
Ask Catholics who they worship, accept whatever answer they give you else you’ll be proving to be foolish. You can’t force a god on people who have clearly told you that their “intention” is not to worship this “god” you have forced on them.

Your bible is merely a guide! ONLY CATHOLICS SEEM TO UNDERSTAND THAT and it’s no surprise.

You can’t be more Nigerian than Buhari, neither can you be more British than the Queen. It is also common knowledge that you can’t be more Christian than the Catholics. Your obsession with the Catholics won’t change how Christian they are cos in the global realities, they are before the others and more than the others and so globally a Christian is presumed to be catholic.

The Catholic church is the hallmark of the christian gathering as it is the most all encompassing there is.

Instead of worrying about the Catholic church which is obviously bigger than all protestant groups put together, worry about why there is division in protestantism and why there are thousands of protestant groups.

Remember that protestantism started with the aim of dividing the church(Catholic). Worry about why there are numerous protestant groups in disagreement with eachother.

Alexandro15:


Worship is a thing of the mind. I might prostrate when greeting my elders but it doesn't mean I am worshiping them. It is an honor I accord to the person because of his status as a older person. Thus, you might see people praising, or honouring Mary. It is not the same as worship.

Catholic Theologians in past centuries, has differentiated the honor/worship we give to God, and the honor/veneration we give to Mary:

Latria: Supreme honor given to God alone. This is also called adoration and worship, giving glory and to God. These words are due to God alone. Thus, you can't find a Catholic saying we worship or adore God.

Dulia: honor given to angels and saints. We do not worship them, but recognize and acknowledge the power of God in their lives.

Hyperdulia: the highest form of Dulia given to Mary, the Mother of God.

blueAgent:




Yes lawyers bow to judges.

But first a court is not a religious ground.

2. They don't pray to Judges neither do they praise judges and exalt them to godlike status.

On The issue of intention, the Bible says from the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh.

Secondly the Bible also teaches that as a man thinketh His heart so he is.

Angels in the Bible refused worship or been bowed to, so why did they not accept it, since the persons didn't have intentions to equate them with God?


Only in your small mind is Catholics all the nonsense you claim.

Christaintity and church has been existing long before your church was formed and hijacked it.

Am sure you don't know the history of your church.
You are only contempt with the little information your handlers give you sheepie's for you to parraot like you really know anything.

Go and read books by ex- Catholics who have seen the truth and have come out to denounced the mystery Babylon called the Catholic Church.

blueAgent:




Keep deciving yourself.

It's funny how none the apostles ever venerated Mary.

Alexandro15:


After shouting that I should show evidence, this is the best you can come up with? You cannot even refute one if my points and you are still writing.

Now you understand why I was hesitant in engaging you at first. You cannot make or hold a point. Continue in your delusion. Continue with your obsession with Catholics instead of your Christian Life.

[/quote]

DownChelsea:
you made wrong points at the wrong places, your 1st error is saying that they praise Mary as if she were God. nobody exalts Mary in a godlike manner, your prejudice has your mind all messed up. Your 2nd point of fallacy reminds us all that There are books by ex protestants who have also arguably “seen the truth”. Your 3rd area of myopia is failing to realise that “knowledge” is where Catholics are richest of all denominations. Number 4, I have no church and I hate Christianity but if Christianity is real at all, it can only be practised in the catholic church, another point where you are malinformed is thinking that anybody has equated angels with God or worship angels,


Really?

So who gave Mary names like Mother of God,Queen of Heaven,
mother of mercy, mother of peace, Mother of Divine Grace, Holy Virgin of Virgins ,Virgin Most Merciful,. Mirror of Justice, and many more titles?



Your problem is very traceable. Help yourself! You are a protestant and protestants are habitually ignorant. Try to be different! Ask questions and most importantly, ACCEPT ANSWERS! Don’t argue like you know, for you do not know.

Protestants are too insignificant (in Christianity) to be lied to by Catholics. Ask questions and accept the answers you get cos you know nothing.

I refuse to accept answers that are contrary to God's teachings

Lastly, you did not debunk any logical statements in my last post. So if you want to feel intelligent or philosophical,task yourself, read it up again and get busy. Your thoughts would be more productive in that line and not in this your failed attempt at trying to make mary or the angels equal to god.

There was nothing logical about your statements.

DownChelsea post=84862434:
you made wrong points at the wrong places, your 1st error is saying that they praise Mary as if she were God. nobody exalts Mary in a godlike manner, your prejudice has your mind all messed up. Your 2nd point of fallacy reminds us all that There are books by ex protestants who have also arguably “seen the truth”. Your 3rd area of myopia is failing to realise that “knowledge” is where Catholics are richest of all denominations. Number 4, I have no church and I hate Christianity but if Christianity is real at all, it can only be practised in the catholic church, another point where you are malinformed is thinking that anybody has equated angels with God or worship angels,


Really?

So who gave Mary names like Mother of God,Queen of Heaven,
mother of mercy, mother of peace, Mother of Divine Grace, Holy Virgin of Virgins ,Virgin Most Merciful,. Mirror of Justice, and many more titles?



Your problem is very traceable. Help yourself! You are a protestant and protestants are habitually ignorant. Try to be different! Ask questions and most importantly, ACCEPT ANSWERS! Don’t argue like you know, for you do not know.

Protestants are too insignificant (in Christianity) to be lied to by Catholics. Ask questions and accept the answers you get cos you know nothing.

I refuse to accept answers that are contrary to God's teachings

Lastly, you did not debunk any logical statements in my last post. So if you want to feel intelligent or philosophical,task yourself, read it up again and get busy. Your thoughts would be more productive in that line and not in this your failed attempt at trying to make mary or the angels equal to god.

There was nothing logical about your statements.

[quote author=DownChelsea post=84862434] you made wrong points at the wrong places, your 1st error is saying that they praise Mary as if she were God. nobody exalts Mary in a godlike manner, your prejudice has your mind all messed up. Your 2nd point of fallacy reminds us all that There are books by ex protestants who have also arguably “seen the truth”. Your 3rd area of myopia is failing to realise that “knowledge” is where Catholics are richest of all denominations. Number 4, I have no church and I hate Christianity but if Christianity is real at all, it can only be practised in the catholic church, another point where you are malinformed is thinking that anybody has equated angels with God or worship angels,




Your problem is very traceable. Help yourself! You are a protestant and protestants are habitually ignorant. Try to be different! Ask questions and most importantly, ACCEPT ANSWERS! Don’t argue like you know, for you do not know.

Protestants are too insignificant (in Christianity) to be lied to by Catholics. Ask questions and accept the answers you get cos you know nothing.


Lastly, you did not debunk any logical statements in my last post. So if you want to feel intelligent or philosophical,task yourself, read it up again and get busy. Your thoughts would be more productive in that line and not in this your failed attempt at trying to make mary or the angels equal to god.

blueAgent:





So in your mind Catholicism is Christain life?

Stop fooling yourself Catholics worship Mary that is a fact which I proved with my OP.

You are the one who is unable to refute any of the points I listed on the OP.

blueAgent:



There was nothing logical about your statements.





Really?

So who gave Mary names like Mother of God,Queen of Heaven,
mother of mercy, mother of peace, Mother of Divine Grace, Holy Virgin of Virgins ,Virgin Most Merciful,. Mirror of Justice, and many more titles?

I refuse to accept answers that are contrary to God's teachings.
There was nothing logical about your statements.

BeLookingIDIOT:
Don't you do the same to Jesus,what's the difference
Catholicism/ ideal Christianity (if Christianity ain’t a scam) is worship of God while Christianity protestantism is pikin worship.

blueAgent:



you are confusing yourself.

Jesus the reason for Christaintity, without him Christaintity will not exist or have a meaning.

For your information Jesus was birth,death and mission on Earth was decleared or prophecised thousands of years before he was born and he fufilled every prophecy concerning him.

Here is Isaiah in the old testament speaking about Jesus his birth, life, death and mission.

Isaiah 53:1 Who hath believed our report? and to whom is the arm of the LORD revealed? 53:2 For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground: he hath no form nor comeliness; and when we shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him. 53:3 He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not. 53:4 Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted. 53:5 But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed. 53:6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all. 53:7 He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth. 53:8 He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken. 53:9 And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death; because he had done no violence, neither was any deceit in his mouth. 53:10 Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand. 53:11 He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities. 53:12 Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.

Alexandro15:


You asked me to show you how praise and veneration to Mary is different from that if God. I have given you solid reasons and for two days you couldn't reply because you were empty. Only for you to surface and write " you are deceiving yourself".

If you want to reply me, counter what I have written. If not, hold your peace.

sonmvayina:


Isaiah 53 is talking about a servant.. And time after time Isaiah told you the servant was Israel.. There is no controversy there at all... Read Isaiah 41:8-9..there was never any need for the Jesus story.. Never..

DownChelsea:
you have chosen to be ignorant, but guess whose fault it is, definitely not mine or the Catholics’. If you have asked questions to your superiors and have been adequately answered then the problem is yours.
Mirror of Justice, virgin of virgins, mother of peace, queen of heaven and all the other names you say they call Mary have not implied how they worship Mary (as God). Which is the fundamental issue YOU HAVE CHOSEN TO SHY AWAY FROM.

I was even expecting you to accuse them of calling Mary Godlike names such as: My Lord, creator of my life, king of kings, el shaddai, almighty God, creator of heaven and earth, God the father, son and holy spirit e.t.c. Cos guess what, these words are not alien in the Catholic Church, so we expected you to lie that Mary is whom they refer to as “those”

When I still had a degree of your breed of ignorance, I did my homework on the catholics and learnt quite a lot. Do you even know what catholics call “the creed”? Have you read it up? Do you know the crux of what catholics call “the mass” or Eucharistic sacrament (which is the hallmark of the mass)? Have you ever listened to a homily in seasons like lent or advent? Do you even read? Have you engaged seminarians in bible issues (which ofcourse would be a suicide mission for you?

You must really be a disappointment to think when catholics sing things like hallelujah or hossana, they do so to Mary! or when then undergo the sacrament of penance, they do so for Mary’s sake. Or even that the terbanacle is all about Mary.

The Catholic Church is apparently too deep for you and you have refused to pursue non-shallow ideologies.

The gathering you call “church” unlike the Catholic Church may be ignorant, misleading and patchy but you are responsible for YOUR OWN personal inadequacies

Alexandro15:
Op, you see why I was hesitant to engage you in the first place. Because I knew you were one of those kwashiorkor christians who went to 6 weeks Bible School, and feel that they are now knowledgeable enough to condemn anything the Catholic Church does. I knew you lack the Bible knowledge, or even scholarly proficiency to maintain a position. You will only be moving from a point to another, not admitting when enough reason and evidence has been shown you, but moving foolishly to display your ignorance.

Poor protestant, you feel frustrated that every one if your points is being countered, that the Catholic Church is almost effortlessly growing despite your efforts to pull it down, whereas people are leaving your church everyday for another.

I will not tell you to leave your church, but only to focus more on your spiritual life. If you are really spiritual, you will be see the truth, and you will come to the church seeking. Ask John Cardinal Newman.

DownChelsea:
Christianity used to be One/universal/unified/undivided (which also means “catholic”).
And there came protestantism, which decided to be in disagreement with the global undivided/catholic state of the church And then “denomination/division” began.

One would wonder why the protestant movement isn’t as unified as the Catholic Church(what is left of Christianity in its global unified state).

Instead of having two separate solid denominations at war, i.e (original Christianity/Catholicism VERSUS protestantism), what we now have is a solid/ sacred/unified/ denomination of original christians/catholics VERSUS a confused protestant movement that is IN DISAGREEMENT WITH ITS OWN SELF leading to its further division into thousands of segments.


Protestantism is a joke. No two protestant gatherings are in agreement with their doctrines. How then can they validly come together and make a case against the catholics who are indeed the true Christians BY ORIGIN?

Alexandro15:
Op, you see why I was hesitant to engage you in the first place. Because I knew you were one of those kwashiorkor christians who went to 6 weeks Bible School, and feel that they are now knowledgeable enough to condemn anything the Catholic Church does. I knew you lack the Bible knowledge, or even scholarly proficiency to maintain a position. You will only be moving from a point to another, not admitting when enough reason and evidence has been shown you, but moving foolishly to display your ignorance.

Poor protestant, you feel frustrated that every one if your points is being countered, that the Catholic Church is almost effortlessly growing despite your efforts to pull it down, whereas people are leaving your church everyday for another.

I will not tell you to leave your church, but only to focus more on your spiritual life. If you are really spiritual, you will be see the truth, and you will come to the church seeking. Ask John Cardinal Newman.

DownChelsea:
Christianity used to be One/universal/unified/undivided (which also means “catholic”).
And there came protestantism, which decided to be in disagreement with the global undivided/catholic state of the church And then “denomination/division” began.

One would wonder why the protestant movement isn’t as unified as the Catholic Church(what is left of Christianity in its global unified state).

Instead of having two separate solid denominations at war, i.e (original Christianity/Catholicism VERSUS protestantism), what we now have is a solid/ sacred/unified/ denomination of original christians/catholics VERSUS a confused protestant movement that is IN DISAGREEMENT WITH ITS OWN SELF leading to its further division into thousands of segments.


Protestantism is a joke. No two protestant gatherings are in agreement with their doctrines. How then can they validly come together and make a case against the catholics who are indeed the true Christians BY ORIGIN?

blueAgent:


You confusing yourself.

Was it a servant that was killed to save humanity

if so what is the name of the servant?


No servant has ever existed without sin, as you can see from that Bible verse that Jesus had no sin.

blueAgent:



QUEEN OF HEAVEN - God has exalted Mary in heavenly glory
as Queen of Heaven and earth. (Catechism 966) She is to be
praised with special devotion. (Catechism 971, 2675)
Psalm 148:13 says, “Let them praise the name of the Lord:
for his name alone is excellent; his glory is above the
earth and heaven.” This makes it quite clear that only
God’s name (not Mary’s) is to be exalted. (In Catholic
Bibles the numbering of the chapters and verses of some
of the Psalms is slightly different.)
When people tried to give Mary special honor and pre-
eminence because she was His mother, Jesus corrected them.
“And it came to pass, as he spake these things, a certain
woman of the company lifted up her voice, and said unto
him, Blessed is the womb that bare thee, and the paps
which thou hast sucked. But he said, Yea rather, blessed
are they that hear the word of God, and keep it.” (Luke
11:27-28)
In chapters four and five of the Book of Revelation, we are
given a quite detailed picture of Heaven. God is seated on the
throne, surrounded by 24 elders and four living creatures. The
Lamb (Jesus) is standing in the center of the throne.
Thousands upon thousands of angels circle the throne,
singing God's praises. And Mary is not in the picture at all.

DownChelsea:
simple puzzles are hard for you to solve

sonmvayina:
Jesus is just a fictional character and story, I can write a story about a man who lived in Benin city in 1920s,and claim he had no sin and his people liked him.. And that he was mistakenly killed.. When he was falsely accused of a crime he never committed.. And that after his death, the people saw their mistake and made him a hero... And named a market after him...
It is just a story, it does not mean it really happened.. Even if the setting is a real place.. Same as Jesus.. The story tellers who wrote the story said he was sinless.. It does not mean Jesus existed in real life.. There is no where outside of the Bible that claim they know anybody who saw him... The gospel are all written in the 3rd person and the authors are far from the story.. They never said how the story affected them....
Think, use your brain.. It is not for decoration

blueAgent:



Tell why this is not Idolatry?
On May 13, 1981, a man shot Pope John Paul II. As the
ambulance carried him to the hospital, the Pope kept praying,
“Mary, my mother! Mary, my mother!” One year later, the Pope
made a pilgrimage to Fatima to thank Our Lady of Fatima for
saving his life and to consecrate the entire human race to her.
[27] The video Catholicism: Crisis of Faith shows the Pope
kissing the feet of a statue of Mary. [28]
Millions of pilgrims go to shrines which honor apparitions of
Mary. Every year fifteen to twenty million pilgrims go to
Guadalupe in Mexico, five and a half million go to Lourdes in
France, five million go to Czestochowa (Jasna Gora) in
Poland, and four and a half million go to Fatima in Portugal.
Special dates draw huge crowds. On August 15, half a million
pilgrims go to Czestochowa. On October 13, a million people
go to Fatima. On December 12, 1999, five million pilgrims
went to Mexico to honor Our Lady of Guadalupe.

blueAgent:



You are more confused and deluded than I thought.

Where is the source of your information because the Bible from Genesis to Revelation is all about Jesus.

As for your claim you are all alone because the Bible does not agree with your lies.