I have heard the argument that Nigerian democracy should be similar to American democracy. Meaning that if you live (or were born) in a state you should be able to run for elective office even though your tribe is not from that state. While this sounds good in theory, in reality it is a very dangerous idea. This might work in America but not in Nigeria. If you live in a state and you are not an indigene or member of the state's tribe you should respect yourself and not run for elective office. Otherwise, it will lead to resentment against nomadic tribes who are far more likely to be found outside their states of indigene than other tribes. Tribal co-existence of Nigeria is paramount to the fate of this country. Those that seek to impose European/American ideals on Nigeria will inevitably drive this shaky union off the proverbial cliff.

The entire non-Fulani parts of the country rejected the suggestions of cattle colonies for Fulanis. Because people do not like the idea of non-indigenes coming into their lands and taking over. In some parts of the country, even if you are a member of the tribe, you can't even run for political office if you are not from that particular state. So its clear how Nigeria is to be structured based on this reality. Otherwise, the consequences would be dire.

Who wants the country to even exist sef?

We are not meant to be One Nigeria forever.

Nigeria has grown beyond its usefulness.

YungMillionaire:
I have heard the argument that Nigerian democracy should be similar to American democracy. Meaning that if you live (or were born) in a state you should be able to run for elective office even though your tribe is not from that state. While this sounds good in theory, in reality it is a very dangerous idea. This might work in America but not in Nigeria. If you live in a state and you are not an indigene or member of the state's tribe you should respect yourself and not run for elective office. Otherwise, it will lead to resentment against nomadic tribes who are far more likely to be found outside their states of indigene than other tribes. Tribal co-existence of Nigeria is paramount to the fate of this country. Those that seek to impose European/American ideals on Nigeria will inevitably drive this shaky union off the proverbial cliff.

At the bolded

A shaky union and a shaky relationship have one solution in common.

They need to break up.

Any union or relationship that is not built on solid foundation will eventually end no matter how much or how hard you try.

The sooner we accept this glaring fact, the better for us and our future generations.

TooMuchStuff:

Who wants the country to even exist sef?

We are not meant to be One Nigeria forever.

Nigeria has grown beyond its usefulness.

And what do you hope to replace Nigeria with?

horsepower101:

At the bolded
A shaky union and a shaky relationship have one solution in common.
They need to break up.
Any union or relationship that is not built on solid foundation will eventually end no matter how much or how hard you try.
The sooner we accept this glaring fact, the better for us and our future generations.

The breakup could lead to worse situation than what we have presently. Some of the fragments of breakup would be worse than South Sudan. I believe that some form of restructuring is in order.

YungMillionaire:


And what do you hope to replace Nigeria with?

Split the cesspit.

Arewastan..... for Sharia loving Almajiri
Middlebelt......For coolheaded people
Biafra. ......For African Giants
Oodua For Intellectuals and Corporates

TooMuchStuff:


Split the cesspit.

Arewastan..... for Sharia loving Almajiris
Middlebelt......For coolheaded people
Biafra. ......For African Giants
Oodua For Intellectuals and Corporates

These could lead to endless wars and conflicts. In fact, this prescription could turn into another Syria. The best solution is to maintain what we have so far and clearly define terms by restructuring.

Tribal democracy will work in Nigeria all we need is a few dedicated mad people to fight for it

So we can accept Christianity, Education, Technology and Democracy without it crushing us, It's not the first time we accepted American ideals and they worked for us so far


Op you are suggesting restructuring yet opposing it at the same time

LordVoldermort:
Tribal democracy will work in Nigeria all we need is a few dedicated mad people to fight for it

Yes. Tribal democracy is what we have so far and it is our best bet since we are a nation of tribes.

LordVoldermort:

So we can accept Christianity, Education, Technology and Democracy without it crushing us, It's not the first time we accepted American ideals and they worked for us so far

America is not a pure democracy either. In America some votes are more valuable than others. Trump lost the popular vote (pure democracy) but won the election because of electoral college (a vote in middle America is more valuable than a vote in coastal America).

LordVoldermort:

Op you are suggesting restructuring yet opposing it at the same time

No where did I oppose restructuring in my post. Check again. The restructuring I would suggest will be to legally clarify our tribal democratic system and create tribal/quasi-tribal regions with the stipulation that each region has immigration controls of its borders.

YungMillionaire:

Yes. Tribal democracy is what we have so far and it is our best bet since we are a nation of tribes.


America is not a pure democracy either. In America some votes are more valuable than others. Trump lost the popular vote (pure democracy) but won the election because of electoral college (a vote in middle America is more valuable than a vote in coastal America).


No where did I oppose restructuring in my post. Check again. The restructuring I would suggest will be to legally clarify our tribal democratic system and create tribal/quasi-tribal regions with the stipulation that each region has immigration controls of its borders.

Lol by tribal democracy I meant people allowed to contest in different regions, funny doublespeak

LordVoldermort:
Lol by tribal democracy I meant people allowed to contest in different regions, funny doublespeak

That's the opposite of tribal democracy. Why do you think this is the way forward for Nigeria?

So the offspring of an Igbo man and a Yoruba woman cannot contest either in SE or SW? You're creating far more problems. If an Igbo man residing in lagos is popular enough to win, so be it likewise a yoruba man in the East. But you cant stop people from contesting, nowhere in the world where democracy is practice stop people!

YungMillionaire:

Yes. Tribal democracy is what we have so far and it is our best bet since we are a nation of tribes.


America is not a pure democracy either. In America some votes are more valuable than others. Trump lost the popular vote (pure democracy) but won the election because of electoral college (a vote in middle America is more valuable than a vote in coastal America).


No where did I oppose restructuring in my post. Check again. The restructuring I would suggest will be to legally clarify our tribal democratic system and create tribal/quasi-tribal regions with the stipulation that each region has immigration controls of its borders.

YungMillionaire:


That's the opposite of tribal democracy. Why do you think this is the way forward for Nigeria?

I think it counters tribalism I know it won't get rid of it but imagine if the Blacks in America just decided to never do something about segregation it just wouldn't get better, we need Nigerians to be more United good for our economy and military and tribal democracy prevents it to a degree

There would surely be stubborn people who would surely fight to the death against it, these people basically fight against everything new until it becomes normalized and they love dreaming about the good ol days

In summary I think it's time Nigeria experimented a little it's time we try something new, but we need the mad people first

YungMillionaire:
I have heard the argument that Nigerian democracy should be similar to American democracy. Meaning that if you live (or were born) in a state you should be able to run for elective office even though your tribe is not from that state. While this sounds good in theory, in reality it is a very dangerous idea. This might work in America but not in Nigeria. If you live in a state and you are not an indigene or member of the state's tribe you should respect yourself and not run for elective office. Otherwise, it will lead to resentment against nomadic tribes who are far more likely to be found outside their states of indigene than other tribes. Tribal co-existence of Nigeria is paramount to the fate of this country. Those that seek to impose European/American ideals on Nigeria will inevitably drive this shaky union off the proverbial cliff.

The entire non-Fulani parts of the country rejected the suggestions of cattle colonies for Fulanis. Because people do not like the idea of non-indigenes coming into their lands and taking over. In some parts of the country, even if you are a member of the tribe, you can't even run for political office if you are not from that particular state. So its clear how Nigeria is to be structured based on this reality. Otherwise, the consequences would be dire.

You are pitifully wrong bro. Nigeria does not need to exist. It needs unconditional disintegration.

LordVoldermort:
I think it counters tribalism I know it won't get rid of it but imagine if the Blacks in America just decided to never do something about segregation it just wouldn't get better, we need Nigerians to be more United good for our economy and military and tribal democracy prevents it to a degree There would surely be stubborn people who would surely fight to the death against it, these people basically fight against everything new until it becomes normalized and they love dreaming about the good ol days In summary I think it's time Nigeria experimented a little it's time we try something new, but we need the mad people first

Interesting. Personally I see it differently. Corruption, not tribalism, is Nigeria's main problem. What you are proposing will exacerbate tribalism not prevent it. Here is how. Nigerian tribes who are not very nomadic in nature (and or who do not have the population) would resent someone from another tribe representing them since they do not have the numbers to do that in the rep's region. Human beings can tolerate most things but one thing that is sure to create enmity is a sense of unfairness. This approach would hand over even more country of over to the 3 major tribes who have the population to influence politics outside their region. This would lead to more suspicion and increase tribal conflicts. Pure democracy is rare. America (the example most people like to use) is not a pure democracy. In America the votes in the middle of the country (which is largely white) are effectively more valuable than those in the coastal areas (which are more diverse). This is why Trump (not Hillary Clinton) is president.

My proposal of a tribal democracy would ensure that each state is only represented by an indigene or tribal member. This would remove the sense of unfairness that would surely be the case if we go towards your proposal. In addition, it will lead to mutual respect among the tribes and encourage greater unity in the country.

Dedetwo:


You are pitifully wrong bro. Nigeria does not need to exist. It needs unconditional disintegration.

Defend your opinion. And what would you replace the current Nigeria with?

YungMillionaire:


Interesting. Personally I see it differently. Corruption, not tribalism, is Nigeria's main problem. What you are proposing will exacerbate tribalism not prevent it. Here is how. Nigerian tribes who are not very nomadic in nature (and or who do not have the population) would resent someone from another tribe representing them since they do not have the numbers to do that in the rep's region. Human beings can tolerate most things but one thing that is sure to create enmity is a sense of unfairness. This approach would hand over even more country of over to the 3 major tribes who have the population to influence politics outside their region. This would lead to more suspicion and increase tribal conflicts. Pure democracy is rare. America (the example most people like to use) is not a pure democracy. In America the votes in the middle of the country (which is largely white) are effectively more valuable than those in the coastal areas (which are more diverse). This is why Trump (not Hillary Clinton) is president.

My proposal of a tribal democracy would ensure that each state is only represented by an indigene or tribal member. This would remove the sense of unfairness that would surely be the case if we go towards your proposal. In addition, it will lead to mutual respect among the tribes and encourage greater unity in the country.

Pure democracy is not rare you didn't mention countries like Norway or Finland

Your proposal of tribal politics is already what Nigeria is using, your not proposing anything new and it never encouraged greater unity

You said people won't like a non indigene running in their state but people's opinion change easily, someone in 2007 would never believe Buhari could be president

I think any non indigene who could be popular enough to win shouldn't be discouraged, I think people who are born in states should be allowed to contest there

It's not as if ghosts are voting for them

LordVoldermort:
Pure democracy is not rare you didn't mention countries like Norway or Finland

But you used America as your example. Nigeria is not Norway. How many tribes are in Norway?. The system of government has to fit the reality on ground. Otherwise, complete disintegration will become inevitable.

LordVoldermort:

Your proposal of tribal politics is already what Nigeria is using, your not proposing anything new and it never encouraged greater unity

Yes, we practice tribal democracy but its actually not the law. Our practice of tribal democracy is the reason why we are as united as we are today. If you consider the number of tribes in this country, the fact that we have even this level of unity is a miracle. Currently our tribal democratic system is been threatened by tribal suspicions (e.g. the strong opposition to cattle colonies for Fulanis, the electoral fracas in Lagos during the last election etc.). We must not allow this suspicions to generate into tribal conflicts. Now, I propose restructuring should include the encoding of our tribal democratic system into law.

LordVoldermort:

You said people won't like a non indigene running in their state but people's opinion change easily, someone in 2007 would never believe Buhari could be president

This is not the same thing. Having Buhari as president is not the same thing as having a Fulani governor of Abia state bringing Fulani cattle colony to Abia because he is governor.

LordVoldermort:

I think any non indigene who could be popular enough to win shouldn't be discouraged, I think people who are born in states should be allowed to contest there

I disagree. And I have comprehensively explained my reasons.

YungMillionaire:


Defend your opinion. And what would you replace the current Nigeria with?

If given the opportunity, I shall divide Nigeria into nation states where cultural affinity shall remain the foundation of unity. I have no business in a union such as Nigeria as a country.

YungMillionaire:


Interesting. Personally I see it differently. Corruption, not tribalism, is Nigeria's main problem. What you are proposing will exacerbate tribalism not prevent it. Here is how. Nigerian tribes who are not very nomadic in nature (and or who do not have the population) would resent someone from another tribe representing them since they do not have the numbers to do that in the rep's region. Human beings can tolerate most things but one thing that is sure to create enmity is a sense of unfairness. This approach would hand over even more country of over to the 3 major tribes who have the population to influence politics outside their region. This would lead to more suspicion and increase tribal conflicts. Pure democracy is rare. America (the example most people like to use) is not a pure democracy. In America the votes in the middle of the country (which is largely white) are effectively more valuable than those in the coastal areas (which are more diverse). This is why Trump (not Hillary Clinton) is president.

My proposal of a tribal democracy would ensure that each state is only represented by an indigene or tribal member. This would remove the sense of unfairness that would surely be the case if we go towards your proposal. In addition, it will lead to mutual respect among the tribes and encourage greater unity in the country.

Please expatiate on the bolded.

Dedetwo:


If given the opportunity, I shall divide Nigeria into nation states where cultural affinity shall remain the foundation of unity. I have no business in a union such as Nigeria as a country.

which is stronger - cultural affinity or tribal affinity?

Dedetwo:


Please expatiate on the bolded.

Basically, the stealing of government funds is an inter-tribal affair.

YungMillionaire:


which is stronger - cultural affinity or tribal affinity?

Similarity in culture sometimes transverses tribal boundaries.

YungMillionaire:


Basically, the stealing of government funds is an inter-tribal affair.

This is the bane of African intellectualism. Corruption is NOT limited to embezzlement of public funds. There are more severe aspect of corruption than stealing of public fund. A person steal a fund and state can recover from it in a given time. However there are aspects of corruption that engender or incorporate or perpetuate the stealing of public fund.

YungMillionaire:

But you used America as your example. Nigeria is not Norway. How many tribes are in Norway?. The system of government has to fit the reality on ground. Otherwise, complete disintegration will become inevitable.

I personally believe tribe itself is man made, tribe will exist where people have need for it, before Nigeria gained independence tribe wasn't such a big deal same goes in South Sudan,look at North Korea and South Korea same culture same heritage yet they found one stupid reason to go to war, there isn't much tribalism in Norway because they practice pure democracy hence they don't need it *modified I'm not saying Norway is perfect

YungMillionaire:


Yes, we practice tribal democracy but its actually not the law. Our practice of tribal democracy is the reason why we are as united as we are today. If you consider the number of tribes in this country, the fact that we have even this level of unity is a miracle. Currently our tribal democratic system is been threatened by tribal suspicions (e.g. the strong opposition to cattle colonies for Fulanis, the electoral fracas in Lagos during the last election etc.). We must not allow this suspicions to generate into tribal conflicts. Now, I propose restructuring should include the encoding of our tribal democratic system into law.

These suspicions have always been in Nigeria and inspite of regionalism they were still there and might always be there, when your scared of darkness it is advisable not to avoid darkness but to go into it and realize there's nothing to be scared of, this is why people need non indigene leaders to reduce their anxiety

YungMillionaire:


This is not the same thing. Having Buhari as president is not the same thing as having a Fulani governor of Abia state bringing Fulani cattle colony to Abia because he is governor.

Lol no fulani governor of abia would ever try to bring in cattle colony he might even do the opposite, remember it's democracy so he can only do what those who voted for him wants him to do.

Goodnight

The name "Nigeria" is an insult to all of us.

Dedetwo:

This is the bane of African intellectualism. Corruption is NOT limited to embezzlement of public funds. There are more severe aspect of corruption than stealing of public fund. A person steal a fund and state can recover from it in a given time. However there are aspects of corruption that engender or incorporate or perpetuate the stealing of public fund.

Never said it was limited to that. But you do agree stealing funds meant for roads and other infrastructure is corruption right?

Dedetwo:


Similarity in culture sometimes transverses tribal boundaries.

Can you give a Nigerian example?

If u cared to reflect more and dive deeper you wud have come to the valid conclusion that what we need is a complete dissolution of the contraption called Nigeria, it is the only way to improve the lives of the people in that geography

YungMillionaire:


Never said it was limited to that. But you do agree stealing funds meant for roads and other infrastructure is corruption right ?

When you have an airhead as the minister of works because he/she is a crony, he/she will embezzle the fund, bring fellow cronies and destroy the ministry to perpetuate what became of Nigeria today.

Dedetwo:

When you have an airhead as the minister of works because he/she is a crony, he/she will embezzle the fund, bring fellow cronies and destroy the ministry to perpetuate what became of Nigeria today.

I will take that as a YES. Corruption is Nigeria's biggest problem.