JMAN05:


Faith is defined as the assured expectations of what is hoped for. Heb 11:1

What does it mean? You hope to get your monthly salary. You guys has been owed for months. Now your friend in the same ministry and in the same bank received an alert of his salary. You went to work, and saw that many have gotten there alerts. You expectation is assured. Yours will likely come soon.

2. Faith is the evident demonstration of realities that are not seen.

What does it mean?

You were at home when you received your alert of monthly salary. But you have not been the money yet. But that alert is an evidence demonstrating that something is in ur account.

It can also be compared to a check issues to you by a trusted friend. The check is the evidence.

That is the meaning of faith. It is no blind belief without evidence backing it up.

I think what you have there is not a true Christian faith. Granted, many profess Christians manifest what we could term blind Faith. They accept things sometimes without evidence.

The Bible is not to blame.

Oh nice

So do you also accept only things that have evidence?

Then please provide evidence for the following : (you're a Christian so I'm assuming it follows that you accept these things)

1. God
2. Talking snakes
3. Talking donkeys
4. A global flood
5. All the animals in the world today existing in one floatable building called an ark and having all the STDs.
6. The dead able to rise after 4 days.
7. A man ascending to heaven without an aircraft or jetpack
8. An all-knowing God granting free will.

I will wait.

budaatum:

Who told you buda is a Christian, Bacteriologist? You quoted the very wise Bertrand Russell in your op, but does that make you a Bertrandian Russellian?

Funny that you don't want your truth (based on your faith that you know that truth), challenged. Nothing proves your point any better, lol, that untested (unquestioned) faith is most definitely no way to determine truth.

Not believing a thing to be so does not mean one has rejected that thing. One may chose to understand it for what it is instead.

Ooooooh sooooooo you are just someone from the blue who quotes the Bible when it fits what YOU want to say.

SO you're like "I accept only the parts of the Bible
that sounds logical to me and that I am comfortable with. When the other ridiculous parts are pointed out to me I will run away from them and claim I'm not a Christian."


NOW IT ALL MAKES SENSE why you're trying to SHOVE the other definition of faith that SUITS YOU rather than actually address my OP.

I now understand you as a Classic Cherry-picker. Makes sense.

Bacteriologist:


How does outlining the values of your divine infallible book called the Bible translate to me making beliefs up in my head?

Is your book not promoting homophobia? Or was it not written by goat herders who claimed to be hearing from god in the dark ages when for example we didn't know where the sun went at night? Or does it not contain instructions for possessing, owning and treating slaves?

You know...I don't just pull out stuff from my ass. That would be what Christians do.

You do just pull out stuff from your ass Bact! In the post above alone you pulled out that buda "your divine infallible" from your ass! You pulled out the opinion that buda "your book" from your ass. Or did you get those opinions you claim buda holds from anywhere else than from your ass?

I'd suggest you learn the lesson of this thread and stop behaving like those the op condemned, but would rather you see evidence than pull it out of your ass since its a better way to get an understanding of truths.

budaatum:

You do just pull out stuff from your ass Bact! In the post above alone you pulled out that buda "your divine infallible" from your ass! You pulled out the opinion that buda "your book" from your ass. Or did you get those opinions you claim buda holds from anywhere else than from your ass?

I'd suggest you learn the lesson of this thread and stop behaving like those the op condemned, but would rather you see evidence than pull it out of your ass since its a better way to get an understanding of truths.

Oh yes. The classic cherry-picking Bible apologist who shys away from the parts of the Bible he cannot provide evidence for tells me I should start accepting evidence as being synonymous to faith.

Oh my...Got to love that logic..don't ya
lol

Bacteriologist:


SO you're like "I accept only the parts of the Bible
that sounds logical to me and that I'm am comfortable with."

Religious inclined people (both atheists and theists) say "accept" and mean "believe". The thought that "understand" has any place is way beyond many. If they actually bothered to read the book they'd know it's not an instruction book. They'd at least know they have the option to obey or not. Or did you miss the bit where Adam and Eve's eyes are written to have opened and they realised they were naked? Who do you know reads the Bible and does the following?

Bacteriologist:


Oh yes. The classic cherry-picking Bible apologist who shys away from the parts of the Bible he cannot provide evidence for tells me I should start accepting evidence as being synonymous to faith.

Oh my...Got to love that logic..don't ya
lol

Evidence for what? That a thing is written in the Bible, or that what is written in the Bible is so?Or is there no difference to you?

budaatum:

Religious inclined people (both atheists and theists) say "accept" and mean "believe". The thought that "understand" has any place is way beyond many. If they actually bothered to read the book they'd know it's not an instruction book. They'd at least know they have the option to obey or not. Or did you miss the bit where Adam and Eve's eyes are written to have opened and they realised they were naked? Who do you know reads the Bible and does the following?

Oh yes.... füčking Bacteriologist!! how much more verses from the Bible do I have to cherry pick and show him before he understands that although I disagree with some parts of the Bible I like to use it to suit my agenda when it pleases me!

Who doesn't read the Bible and cherry-picks?!

Those hypocritical Füčking ignorant Atheists!

budaatum:

Evidence for what? That a thing is written in the Bible, or that what is written in the Bible is so?Or is there no difference to you?

Smh

Bacteriologist:

Those hypocritical Füčking ignorant Atheists!

There you go pulling opinions out of your ass again. Are atheists the only "hypocritical Füčking ignorant"? Is this thread not against equally "hypocritical Füčking ignorant" theists who rely on their faith alone?

An intelligent person who use his brain and wrote the following, Bacteriologist. The only pity is he didn't quite understand the full extent of what he wrote, and he does not have the ability to walk his talk.

Bacteriologist:
Let's discuss this "Faith" thing. Faith is like the single most important thing in religion and theism in general.

It is safe to say that the basis of theism is faith.

I hear Christians for example, talk about faith a lot and they say that once you have Faith a lot of things especially in the Bible begins to make sense.

Same thing with Muslims. "Faith" in Allah makes you believe that Islam is the true religion.

But my main point is this why would faith be required to know the truth?

A lot of things we recognise as facts and truths today do not require any sort of faith whatsoever.

Does anyone need faith to know that 1 + 1 = 2?

Is faith required to make an airplane glide in the air? Or a ship remain buoyant?

Does anyone need faith to know that water + clay makes mud?

Do you need faith to accept that whatever is thrown up gets pulled back down (except held up by an external force/obstacle?)

It looks like faith is needed only when believing something that cannot be demonstrated or shown to actually be true or exist.

And that is the greatest downfall of this thing called "faith." ANYONE can believe whatever they want and CLAIM it as true based on "Faith."

Christians even call it "evidence of things not seen." Then I can claim to have a dragon in my basement/backyard. And believe it on "faith."

Faith is a good way to believe in anything but is not a reliable way of determining the truth. And it is not enough to believe claims: especially those with heavy weight as god claims based on faith alone.

If you care about the truth, Faith is not enough.

What are your thoughts?

CaveAdullam:
You do not believe God exists and at the same time you are asking me to prove His duty over the lives of innocent children.

Me I don't understand you o.

You are guilty of the crime called "Faith."

Faith is first believe then work is deployed, this is no blind faith my brother.

Have you proven the existence of your mind like other parts of your body?

The false equivalences are getting tiresome, mister. Based on your faith, is your god responsible for everything? Yes or no.

budaatum:

There you go pulling opinions out of your ass again. Are atheists the only "hypocritical Füčking ignorant"? Is this thread not against equally "hypocritical Füčking ignorant" theists who rely on their faith alone?

An intelligent person who use his brain and wrote the following, Bacteriologist. The only pity is he didn't quite understand the full extent of what he wrote, and he does not have the ability to walk his talk.

Yes! Checkmate buda! I completely agree with you. Pitiable bacteriølogist.Trying to expose your cherry-picking stance... I mean! How could he even think you could be wrong?!

Bacteriologist:


Yes! Checkmate buda! I completely agree with you. Pitiable bacteriølogist.Trying to expose your cherry-picking stance... I mean! How could he even think you could be wrong?!

You'll have to forgive buda for having a brain and using it.

The same Bible you claim promotes homophobia, asks you to love one another, and not judge, and remove your own sin before concerning yourself with the sin of others, so perhaps cure your cherry picking before concerning yourself with buda's cherry picking.

budaatum:

You'll have to forgive buda for having a brain and using it.

The same Bible you claim promotes homophobia, asks you to love one another, and not judge, and remove your own sin before concerning yourself with the sin of others, so perhaps cure your cherry picking before concerning yourself with buda's cherry picking.

Yes...it also SPECIFICALLY says to stone homosexuals to death. But of course let's ignore that and pick the VAGUE verse where it says to love one another...CherryPickAtum.

Bacteriologist:


Yes...it also says to stone homosexuals to death. But of course let's ignore that and say it permits us to love one another...CherryPickAtum.

I would expect you to be honest and base your claims on verifiable evidence, Bact, and not just pull stuff out of your ass, because I assume your 'ologist' has something to do with science and the scientific method.

Please show me where the Bible "says to stone homosexuals to death"!

budaatum:

I would expect you to be honest and base your claims on verifiable evidence, Bact, and not just pull stuff out of your ass, because I assume your 'ologist' has something to do with science and the scientific method.

Please show me where the Bible "says to stone homosexuals to death"!

Expected from a cherrypicker who only reads certain parts of the Bible that suit his bias. Read Leviticus 20:13.

Bacteriologist:


Expected from a cherrypicker who only reads certain parts of the Bible that suit his bias. Read Leviticus 20:13.

This Leviticus 20:13?

Please show where it "says to stone homosexuals to death"!

budaatum:

This Leviticus 20:13?

Please show where it "says to stone homosexuals to death"!

It does says to put them to death.

Bact. I know we can't yet see each others point, but kindly consider helping here as it is a thread that seems to do what op alleged some do and might have to do with your ology.

Why The Theory Of Evolution Should Be Expunged From Curriculum Of Biology

Bacteriologist:


It does says to put them to death.

It does not tell me to "put them to death", bact, and if I claim it does please tell me to have my deranged head checked!

Besides, what happened to the bit that says "buda, don't kill"? Did my cherry picking conveniently miss that bit?

budaatum:

It does not tell me to "put them to death", bact, and if I claim it does please tell me to have my deranged head checked!

Besides, what happened to the bit that says "buda, don't kill"? Did my cherry picking conveniently miss that bit?

Yes it doesn't tell you to put them to death.

So how also does it now tell you to not kill then?

Are you seeing your double standards?

Tamaratonye1:

The false equivalences are getting tiresome, mister. Based on your faith, is your god responsible for everything? Yes or no.

god huh!

You are not ready for an answer.

Bacteriologist:


Yes it doesn't tell you to put them to death.

So how also does it now tell you to not kill then?

Are you seeing your double standards?

Not telling me to put them to death agrees with do not kill, by my understanding. Either ways, I do not kill anyone so how's that double standards?

P.s. I'm not one who buys into "Bible tells". Its a trick some use to input their own [mis]understanding into the mouth of their God! As far as my experience goes, my Bible does not talk (and I say that despite currently listening to an audio version).

I am solely responsible for my own stupidity in misunderstanding what I read in the Bible, or any book, or anywhere, for that matter..

budaatum:

Not telling me to put them to death agrees with do not kill, by my understanding. Either ways, I do not kill anyone so how's that double standards?

P.s. I'm not one who buys into "Bible tells". Its a trick some use to input their own [mis]understanding into the mouth of their God! As far as my experience goes, my Bible does not talk (and I say that despite currently listening to an audio version).

I am solely responsible for my own stupidity in misunderstanding what I read in the Bible, or any book, or anywhere, for that matter..

No, you missed my point.

You were showing me a verse that said "put them to death" and you said it doesn't pertain to you.

And you also turn around and tell me that there was a verse that said "Thou shall not kill" and claim that was specifically speaking to you.

And I am telling you that you cannot simultaneously claim that one verse applies to you on one end and in the same breath claim that another verse does not apply to you without showing why. That would be having double standards.

Do you understand how double standard works?

Bacteriologist:


No, you missed my point.

You were showing me a verse that said "put them to death" and you said it doesn't pertain to you.

"Put them to death does not pertain to anybody", and if I claim it pertains to me, I'd expect you to say I am deranged! Or do I need to ask?

Ok, I'll ask! If I say the Bible tells me to go and put homosexuals to death, please tell me what you would say to me.

Bacteriologist:

And you also turn around and tell me that there was a verse that said "Thou shall not kill" and claim that was specifically speaking to you.

No, I was not saying that was specifically speaking to me. I specifically asked "Did my cherry picking conveniently miss that bit".

It's a big book see, hard to understand at times, so lazy people cherry pick to justify their own doing. They forget that in the same book it is clearly written that "those who pick cherries die of malnutrition!"

So if you were truly convinced that you had the best evidence and best reasons for believing god how were you able to change your mind (if you did)?[/quote]




I have checked and did not see where you mentioned that the definition is that of the skeptic community.well it doesn't matter now let's look at the more important things

You know sometimes having an intellectual understanding of something may not be enough to understand how a thing works..You need some kind of working experience or a demonstration to completely know what you have been taught.

If you have never had any sort of religious belief before and actually practice it then it's difficult to understand how anyone could have faith in anything without evidence.

Faith as I understand it then is not a complete rejection of objective truth.Faith recognises what you regard as truth but rejects it if it becomes a threat.

For instance if a true believer or someone with faith is diagnosed of having an incurable illness the fiirst reaction is to reject it.But from the report nothing can change this diagnosis,.This is the truth .What does the faith person do? He says its lie of the devil.It cannot be true and decides to pray to change it Well I don't know if you will accept this.Some persons have had a miraculous turn around after praying.I have had experiences in the pastwhere my health improved after been prayed for
Of course it's expected at those times to conclude its a godthat was responsible.But I now know better I will come back to this later

So faith is way of focusing on what you have come to accept as truth based on your personal experience even if it goes against every other established truth out there.Whiith faith you create your own truth even if outer evidence does not support it.I am sure so many person who practice faith would tell you the same if you ask them

.What can you tell someone who prays for a job and in a dream he is directed to go to certain company and apply.He does this and the jobs .That's not all the exact salary to be paid he already knows this from the dream.is that not evidence ?or is it coincidence? I had some experiences similar this in the past.But why did I stop believing?

Well ,the first reason I think could be my family background my father was an atheist but he never stopped me and my siblings from going to church..And so his life became a point of reference later in my own life when started to experience a crisis of Faith.What I believe no longer works and I was on the brink.Then one day while thinking of what to do I suddenly remembered my late father and reasoned that when he was alive ,he never experienced what I am now experiencing and he never believed in any god.why is my case different? something must be wrong with what I believe.

So I took the courage to find out the truth about what I have come to accept as "truth" .At the initial stage I was filled with much trepidation each time I read what shattered my religious beliefs.My major worry was fear.Fear of witches and wizards.Who is going to protect me now?
But fortunately for me ,my late father was a point of reference.He used to tell us that witches are not real When we ask him what of those who confess to been witches?He says any such person has mental problem.So whenever fear comes,I look back to my late father and started getting courage to overcome my fears which kept me stuck to my former religion.If no witches attacked my late father and he lived closed to 80 years what was the basis for my fear.

What most people in this part of the world would not admit is that it is the fear of witches that drive them to attending churches.They are looking for a safe haven.


And finally the most liberating thing was that I got explanations for what was responsible for those miracles I had .God was not involved.My mind was largely responsible and I have been able to have some of those experiences even now when I no longer subscribe to the conventional God.I am nor asking any to follow me .

Believe what you believe as long as you don't try forced it down my throat.My current position is due to my past experiences and I am not looking back

An examples of those God directly speaks to (and not those merely told by their Bible), are here.

CaveAdullam:
god huh!

You are not ready for an answer.

Based on your faith, is your god responsible for everything? Yes or no.

Tamaratonye1:

Based on your faith, is your god responsible for everything? Yes or no.

My God is not responsible for the spaghetti I ate this afternoon but He is responsible enough to give me mouth with a nice sets of healthy teeth and tongue so that I can eat anything that pleases me.

Shikena!

Bacteriologist:


Oh nice! A Christian who doesn't believe that snakes and donkeys could talk! Finally. Someone in touch with reality!

So what's your basis for rejecting that part of the Bible? Or I'm quoting out of context as usual...

Many Christians do not believe that snakes and donkeys can talk. What world have you been living in for heaven's sake?

Tamaratonye1:

Based on your faith, is your god responsible for everything? Yes or no.

If God is responsible for the evil in the world, then how come he wants to redeem the world? and why do we pray for the kingdom of God to come and his will to be done on earth as it is in heaven? Come on now, if God actually controlled this world, then everything would be different, but God is not really in charge of this world and there is a better world to come where there would be no more death and sorrow, and this l speak by faith. This faith shall save me if l continue therein, not by works of the law but only faith working through love.

CaveAdullam:
god huh!

You are not ready for an answer.

But I was prepared for the answer. I am wearing protection. I have a helmet just in case my head explodes, a breastplate in case a priest comes out of the fiery depths of hell and grabs at my family jewels, and even applied some hemorrhoid cream just in case ......

Additional protection was provided when I stuffed some broken glass into my juicy frontal dome and my rectum. If god or some priest gets me, at least they wind up circumcised.