₦airaland Forum

jl115:
answer the question.... From the above prototype, what attack helicopter did it develope in to.

The roovalk

Answer the question,was the prototype called an attack helicopter?

Stubborn guy but we like him. And to think that slow, big, lumbering Super Puma became an AH just by adding rocket pod and some precision guided munitions. That just won the argument.

Jimi24:
Stubborn guy but we like him. And to think that slow, big, lumbering Super Puma became an AH just by adding rocket pod and some precision guided munitions. That just won the argument.

Thats the funny thing,the roovalk came from a utility helicopter (puma) that they armoured,swept the engines back and removed the cabin space. He can't see the irony.

dragon2:
Answer the question,was the prototype called an attack helicopter?

YES.
I dont even know why we are arguing this. Very few chopper manufacturers are going to be doing single role helicopters im future. Rockets and missiles are getting smart, UAVs are being re invented as agile swarm vehicles and stand off override command and control of all missiles an aircraft has launched is going to be a commonplace capability.
Attack Choppers are going to be more like Super Pumas.

dragon2:
Thats the funny thing,the roovalk came from a utility helicopter (puma) that they armoured,swept the engines back and removed the cabin space. He can't see the irony.

One big advantage is the higher weapon payload when you have a big chopper in the AH role. Just fly off somewhere, land, reload new rockets and shells and re-join the battle.

Jimi24:
YES.
I dont even know why we are arguing this. Very few chopper manufacturers are going to be doing single role helicopters im future. Rockets and missiles are getting smart, UAVs are being re invented as agile swarm vehicles and stand off override command and control of all missiles an aircraft has launched is going to be a commonplace capability.
Attack Choppers are going to be more like Super Pumas.

Indeed,heavy radar/optics with long range stand-off missiles guided by helicopter deployed drones. The sensor suite will be the winner.Agility will play less and less a role early on until the engagement range is within both helicopters radar.

Massive helicopter functioning as ELINT/AWAC at low terrain with long standoff missiles may appear in intermediate threat environments in future wars. A massive version of the Apache long-bow

Jimi24:
One big advantage is the higher weapon payload when you have a big chopper in the AH role. Just fly off somewhere, land, reload new rockets and shells and re-join the battle.

I think our A109's ,due to their speed, will act as armed scouts/first responder to suppress the boko-haram technicals while the alpha jets (likely second responders) will arrive to bomb.The mi35 will probably come late and take out any remaining heavy technicals armed with AAA missed by the alphas,and the retreating forces wiped out by the A109's.

dragon2:
I think our A109's ,due to their speed, will act as armed scouts/first responder to suppress the boko-haram technicals while the alpha jets (likely second responders) will arrive to bomb.The mi35 will probably come late and take out any remaining heavy technicals armed with AAA missed by the alphas,and the retreating forces wiped out by the A109's.

Exactly. The A109K is a light scout attack helicopter. Nobody would use it to attack amour, but it's great against BHT technicals and light armour.

dragon2:
I think our A109's ,due to their speed, will act as armed scouts/first responder to suppress the boko-haram technicals while the alpha jets (likely second responders) will arrive to bomb.The mi35 will probably come late and take out any remaining heavy technicals armed with AAA missed by the alphas,and the retreating forces wiped out by the A109's.

Agreed. Just to add that Nigerian Army Aviation is coming as well and those Army Choppers may be to support their own ground patrols.

Meanwhile - This chopper would launch drones and is a hint as to what the new generation battle field would look like:

https://googleweblight.com/i?u=https://futurism.com/the-byte/attack-helicopter-launch-drones&hl=en-NG

dragon2:
Answer the question,was the prototype called an attack helicopter?

the Rooivalk was developed from the Puma as was the Oryx........ The prototype was developed into a dedicated AH and a dedicated transport helicopter. That's the point I was making.

dragon2:
I think our A109's ,due to their speed, will act as armed scouts/first responder to suppress the boko-haram technicals while the alpha jets (likely second responders) will arrive to bomb.The mi35 will probably come late and take out any remaining heavy technicals armed with AAA missed by the alphas,and the retreating forces wiped out by the A109's.

You have no idea how military doctrine works

Jimi24:
Stubborn guy but we like him. And to think that slow, big, lumbering Super Puma became an AH just by adding rocket pod and some precision guided munitions. That just won the argument.

Thats exactly the point I was making

But just btw the Oryx is faster, has a better climb rate, and is more maneuverable than any A109

jl115:
the Rooivalk was developed from the Puma as was the Oryx........ The prototype was developed into a dedicated AH and a dedicated transport helicopter. That's the point I was making.

What was the prototype designated as even before the roovalk came to existence.what was the prototype that had reached beta stage called?

dragon2:
What was the prototype designated as even before the roovalk came to existence.what was the prototype that had reached beta stage called?

It was used as a test bed for the development of an AH hence why it was called an AH

jl115:
Thats exactly the point I was making

But just btw the Oryx is faster, has a better climb rate, and is more maneuverable than any A109

Do due research before spitting out rubbish

dragon2:
Do due research before spitting out rubbish

Smh:

https://www.saairforce.co.za/the-airforce/aircraft/3/a109-luh

https://www.saairforce.co.za/the-airforce/aircraft/53/oryx

jl115:
It was used as a test bed for the development of an AH hence why it was called an AH

Wrong,level of development determines designation. If it was unarmed they may have called it prototype adc,xyz platform, as it begins to mature they hand it designations,the level of maturity determines the role and environment it is suppose to operate under.They roovalk is a modification for high intensity anti armour combat that suited the budget of the then SADF. The fact that the cant afford it anymore shows that doctrine has to change and capability gaps covered.Whether that occurs is a different thing.

jl115:
Smh:

https://www.saairforce.co.za/the-airforce/aircraft/3/a109-luh

https://www.saairforce.co.za/the-airforce/aircraft/53/oryx

You quoted a forum that gave you its never exceed speed as top speed.SMH Never exceed speed is not its operational top speed. There is no rate of climb quoted.

dragon2:
Wrong,level of development determines designation. If it was unarmed they may have called it prototype adc,xyz platform, as it begins to mature they hand it designations,the level of maturity determines the role and environment it is suppose to operate under.They roovalk is a modification for high intensity anti armour combat that suited the budget of the then SADF. The fact that the cant afford it anymore shows that doctrine has to change and capability gaps covered.Whether that occurs is a different thing.

You cant eve spell Rooivalk correctly yet you are trying to lecture me on its development? Lol

"The Atlas XTP-1 Beta was an Aerospatiale SA.330 Puma converted by Atlas Aircraft Corporation as testbed for testing and evaluation of the Rooivalk's dynamic systems."

What I said:

" It was used as a test bed for the development of an AH hence why it was called an AH"

dragon2:
You quoted a forum that gave you its never exceed speed as top speed.SMH Never exceed speed is not its operational top speed. There is no rate of climb quoted.

It's not a forum its a website run by Dean Wingren.... Although he also runs the Saaf forum

Anyway from Defenceweb :

https://www.defenceweb.co.za/aerospace/aerospace-aerospace/fact-file-agusta-a109luh-light-utility-helicopter/

https://www.defenceweb.co.za/resources/fact-files/fact-file-denel-m1-oryx/

The Super Puma helicopter can fly at a cruise speed of 260km/h and a maximum speed of 278km/h. It can climb at a rate of 8.2m/s, offering a maximum range of 642km

https://www.airforce-technology.com/projects/as332-c1e-super-puma-twin-engine-helicopter/


A109 max cruise is 285 Km/h

https://www.aircraftcompare.com/aircraft/agusta-westland-aw109-power/

dragon2:
The Super Puma helicopter can fly at a cruise speed of 260km/h and a maximum speed of 278km/h. It can climb at a rate of 8.2m/s, offering a maximum range of 642km

https://www.airforce-technology.com/projects/as332-c1e-super-puma-twin-engine-helicopter/


A109 max cruise is 285 Km/h

https://www.aircraftcompare.com/aircraft/agusta-westland-aw109-power/

I wasnt talking about the Super Puma..

If you noticed I said Oryx

jl115:
I wasnt talking about the Super Puma..

If you noticed I said Oryx

Even worse.the oryx max speed is less than the supa puma and a109,i was using safe cruising speed of A109. The max speed of a109 is 311km

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AgustaWestland_AW109

jl115:
You cant eve spell Rooivalk correctly yet you are trying to lecture me on its development? Lol

"The Atlas XTP-1 Beta was an Aerospatiale SA.330 Puma converted by Atlas Aircraft Corporation as testbed for testing and evaluation of the Rooivalk's dynamic systems."

What I said:

" It was used as a test bed for the development of an AH hence why it was called an AH"

What role was the test bed performing? Was it transport? Anti-submarine?Anti-surface ? ELINT? Ground attack? what role?

Level of development is based on doctrine.

dragon2:
Even worse.the oryx max crusing speed is less than the supa puma and a109,i was using safe cruising speed of A109. The max speed of a109 is 311km

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AgustaWestland_AW109

Bro did you even bother to look at the links?

Dean Wingren gets his stats straight from SAAF so does Defenceweb

The Oryx is slightly faster, has nearly double the climb rate, has a service ceiling nearly a kilometer higher than the A109...

dragon2:
What role was the test bed performing? Was it transport? Anti-submarine?Anti-surface ? ELINT? Ground attack? what role?

Level of development is based on doctrine.

"The Atlas XTP-1 Beta was an Aerospatiale SA.330 Puma converted by Atlas Aircraft Corporation as testbed for testing and evaluation of the Rooivalk"

What do you think it was

jl115:
"The Atlas XTP-1 Beta was an Aerospatiale SA.330 Puma converted by Atlas Aircraft Corporation as testbed for testing and evaluation of the Rooivalk"

What do you think it was

You ability to avoid giving a direct answer says it all

dragon2:

You ability to avoid giving a direct answer says it all

I already gave you a direct answer :

"It was used as a test bed for the development of an AH hence why it was called an AH"

jl115:
I already gave you a direct answer :

"It was used as a test bed for the development of an AH hence why it was called an AH"

I asked,what role is the test bed playing.

jl115:
Bro did you even bother to look at the links?

Dean Wingren gets his stats straight from SAAF so does Defenceweb

The Oryx is slightly faster, has nearly double the climb rate, has a service ceiling nearly a kilometer higher than the A109...

The max speed is 306 if l am wrong show me.