₦airaland Forum

Barristter07:
Dead raised instantly in the twinkling of an eye is a mystery. Even Jesus had to wait for three days in the grave to experience his change to spirit being.

Grab it now ?

For the last time, ASLEEP as being used in that verse is DEATH...so what Apostle Paul meant was WE SHALL NOT ALL DIE

Revelation 20:6 is still in your bible right ?

"Blessed and holy is the one who shares in the first resurrection! Over such the second death has no power, but they will be priests of God and of Christ, and they will reign with him for a thousand years."

Who are those that will be priests of God and reign with Christ ? The one who shares in the first ressurection.

The first resurrection is will happen at the second coming of Christ.

And Christ has not come!

Again its impossible not to die and reign with Christ. First ressurection is a must.

The event of second coming is where first resurrection will occur

May I ask you what exactly are they changing to , and let's see if its not for all of them ?

The dead will be raised to immortal body and the alive will be change/transformed to have the same immortal body...

So it's a mystery for that to happen to living people

Why is it that people who experience the second death were not said to be asleep ? Cos Sleep means death according to you.

For the last time, FALLEN ASLEEP as being USED by Apostle Paul in those verses mean DEATH!

My sarcastic comment on Stephen was to make you realize the word sleep was used cos he had to wait for long before ressurection

But you said Paul who was among the "WE" also has to wait....can you see your confusion?

The point here is that, SLEEP OR ASLEEP when used mean the fellow no longer ALIVE, it's you who decided to read another meaning into it just to propagate your delusion doctrines.

This was plain when Jesus talk about the DEATH of Lazarus, also when Stephen was stoned to death.

Remember, the word SLEEP was used for them to emphasis on their current state NOT WHAT HAPPENED after that....

Reign with Christ , a person must have a share in the first ressurection. Let it sink

And FIRAT resurrection will happen at the second coming, let that blow your empty skull away.

Hahahahaha, Yeeba... Don't tell me that verse is symbolic o ?

It's not symbolic neither was it talking about the REAL ROMAN SOLDIERS

Olodo...

But you said it doesn't mean the soldiers that Peirce him will see him ?

Was the verse says THE SOLDIER THAT PIERCE HIM

Coming vs presence creates a big gap. So I won't go there to avoid creating unnecessary discussion

But isn't the same word translated either to coming or presence...

But let this sink again... Reigning with Christ is for those who have a share in the ressurection.

And the first resurrection will happen at the second coming....grab that with your empty skull

Barristter07:
Dead raised instantly in the twinkling of an eye is a mystery. Even Jesus had to wait for three days in the grave to experience his change to spirit being.

Grab it now ?



Revelation 20:6 is still in your bible right ?

"Blessed and holy is the one who shares in the first resurrection! Over such the second death has no power, but they will be priests of God and of Christ, and they will reign with him for a thousand years."

Who are those that will be priests of God and reign with Christ ? The one who shares in the first ressurection.


Again its impossible not to die and reign with Christ. First ressurection is a must.



May I ask you what exactly are they changing to , and let's see if its not for all of them ?



Why is it that people who experience the second death were not said to be asleep ? Cos Sleep means death according to you.

My sarcastic comment on Stephen was to make you realize the word sleep was used cos he had to wait for long before ressurection



Reign with Christ , a person must have a share in the first ressurection. Let it sink



Hahahahaha, Yeeba... Don't tell me that verse is symbolic o ?



But you said it doesn't mean the soldiers that Peirce him will see him ?



Coming vs presence creates a big gap. So I won't go there to avoid creating unnecessary discussion

But let this sink again... Reigning with Christ is for those who have a share in the ressurection.

Thanks bro , here is the change.

1Corinthians 15

53 For this perishable body must put on the imperishable, and this mortal body must put on immortality. 54 When the perishable puts on the imperishable, and the mortal puts on immortality, then shall come to pass the saying that is written:

“Death is swallowed up in victory.”
55 “O death, where is your victory?
O death, where is your sting?”

56 The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law.


According to liar emusan , only his fantasy living ones will experience that change, I wonder if he didn't read 42-44 , where it says the dead are raised imperishable as well .

Paul said when that change occur , the saying that Death is swallowed forever comes to pass , Why is he mentioning death if they all won't die? Only ressurection from death can warrant such victory

Barristter07:
Presence vs coming. Big gap

So coming or presence aren't from the same Greek word again.....continue

The roman soldiers that Pierce him are very much still alive to witness that . [/quite]

Just show us where the verse says it was Roman soldiers

[quote]I thought you said people will wail and grief, now they will be busy with things of the world ?

You talked about Noah's time and I tell you what happened before the flood NOT WHAT HAPPENED IMMEDIATELY THE EVENT BEGAN

This is how you know you lack scriptural understanding....

The second coming was liking to Noah's flood because people were busy doing the things of the world but immediately the flood started people begin to wail and regret...not invisible like your demonic organization claim where nothing happened.

The second coming will be as a thief in the night when that's why even scripture warned us to always prepared for it

The ark is physical, Christ is not . " the world will see me no more " he declares.

So much for visibility ...

But the same Christ said, He will come in the cloud of heaven...

Even your lying NWT says He will descend from heaven

"Behold, I tell to you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will ALL be changed-- "

If only you understand the change he was talking about. You won't have spill that nonsense above.

Tell me change to what ?

Reduce the volume of the lies.

The change is to immortal body which the same dead raised will have....so it's a mystery for such to happen to people who will not died...

Just as you said the other time.
Paul was addressing the question: How will the dead raise and IN WHICH BODY....?

You have to lie to separate Paul from the WE....that's what wrong teaching can cause!

Emusan:
For the last time, ASLEEP as being used in that verse is DEATH...so what Apostle Paul meant was WE SHALL NOT ALL DIE



The first resurrection is will happen at the second coming of Christ.

And Christ has not come!



The event of second coming is where first resurrection will occur



The dead will be raised to immortal body and the alive will be change/transformed to have the same immortal body...

So it's a mystery for that to happen to living people



For the last time, FALLEN ASLEEP as being USED by Apostle Paul in those verses mean DEATH!



But you said Paul who was among the "WE" also has to wait....can you see your confusion?

The point here is that, SLEEP OR ASLEEP when used mean the fellow no longer ALIVE, it's you who decided to read another meaning into it just to propagate your delusion doctrines.

This was plain when Jesus talk about the DEATH of Lazarus, also when Stephen was stoned to death.

Remember, the word SLEEP was used for them to emphasis on their current state NOT WHAT HAPPENED after that....



And FIRAT resurrection will happen at the second coming, let that blow your empty skull away.



It's not symbolic neither was it talking about the REAL ROMAN SOLDIERS

Olodo...



Was the verse says THE SOLDIER THAT PIERCE HIM



But isn't the same word translated either to coming or presence...



And the first resurrection will happen at the second coming....grab that with your empty skull

Yes , same word but if we go by Presence. First ressurection is happening now. If we go by coming it project it to a distance which kills it significance . As all ressurection occur at last days for both good and unrighteous.

Now that's now even the point now: Who are those who will reign with Christ for 1000 years ? Those having a part in the first ressurection ?

Emusan:
So coming or presence aren't from the same Greek word again.....continue

I already tell the repercussions of both words in my former post.

If Christ come in the cloud that gives credence to his words that the world will see him no more. An aeroplane in the cloud is not visible.

And concerning the change , you finally proved it's for all of them going to heaven, From perishable to imperishable.

As we have borne the image of the one from dust, we will also bear the image of the heavenly one. Says verse 47-49 that's CHANGE for all of them . But before receiving that new body, the present one must die.

1 Corinthians 15:36 " 36 How foolish! What you sow does not come to life unless it dies. "

Jozzy4:
Thanks bro , here is the change.

1Corinthians 15

53 For this perishable body must put on the imperishable, and this mortal body must put on immortality. 54 When the perishable puts on the imperishable, and the mortal puts on immortality, then shall come to pass the saying that is written:

“Death is swallowed up in victory.”
55 “O death, where is your victory?
O death, where is your sting?”

56 The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law.


According to liar Jozzy4 , only his fantasy living ones will experience that change, I wonder if he didn't read 42-44 , where it says the dead are raised imperishable as well .

Paul said when that change occur , the saying that Death is swallowed forever comes to pass , Why is he mentioning death if they all won't die? Only ressurection from death can warrant such victory

Firstly, stop hiding behind bar to spam my mention after I've exposed your lies.

Secondly, your lack of scriptural understanding is greatly affecting you.

Lastly, let this stick to your empty skull...what we're discussing here is the event that will happen at the second coming of Christ.

Where you people are missing it, is using lies to lump this event together...

For instance:
1. The first claim was, the asleep people are those who died before Christ presence
2. The statement in 1 Thess 4 is for those under the Christ presence
3. The claim that those who will be resurrected ASLEEP ONES and the ONES in this current presence of Christ will reign with Him....
4. Yet resurrection is still taking place (that is the quick ones: the one that will not fall asleep)
5. Yet according to your deluded organization, not everyone will reign with Christ not even some but MANY people will be resurrected back to earth.
6. Which means as some JWs will die some will be quickly resurrected while the rest will be left ASLEEP in the grave....

This now leaves us with the question, why will some people be left asleep and some be resurrected instantly when we are already at the Christ presence that the statement of 1 Thess 4 said to happen?

Emusan:
Firstly, stop hiding behind bar to spam my mention after I've exposed your lies.

Secondly, your lack of scriptural understanding is greatly affecting you.

Lastly, let this stick to your empty skull...what we're discussing here is the event that will happen at the second coming of Christ.

Where you people are missing it, is using lies to lump this event together...

For instance:
1. The first claim was, the asleep people are those who died before Christ presence
2. The statement in 1 Thess 4 is for those under the Christ presence
3. The claim that those who will be resurrected ASLEEP ONES and the ONES in this current presence of Christ will reign with Him....
4. Yet resurrection is still taking place (that is the quick ones: the one that will not fall asleep)
5. Yet according to your deluded organization, not everyone will reign with Christ not even some but MANY people will be resurrected back to earth.
6. Which means as some JWs will die some will be quickly resurrected while the rest will be left ASLEEP in the grave....

This now leaves us with the question, why will some people be left asleep and some be resurrected instantly when we are already at the Christ presence that the statement of 1 Thess 4 said to happen?

Not everyone have the heavenly calling or are born again . 1The 4:15-17 is about those having the heavenly calling as it says " we shall always be with the Lord " . they are going there to rule with him for the 1000 years.

Barristter07:
Yes , same word but if we go by Presence. First ressurection is happening now. If we go by coming it project it to a distance which kills it significance . As all ressurection occur at last days for both good and unrighteous.

Now that's now even the point now: Who are those who will reign with Christ for 1000 years ? Those having a part in the first ressurection ?

Dubious JWs.....the same word in the same verse cant be given two different event.

Second coming is the rounding up of the event and is just one event while THE SIGNS that preceding that event is what is happening right now in the word...

Second coming has not happened....if it happened the way scripture described it is what we'll experience just as we can experience the same PRECEEDING SIGNS now...when He comes, AL KINDREDS OF EARTH will wail BECAUSE OF HIM, people will see Him, it will be as lightning shineth from the east to west, that's why Christ warned us against people like Jehovah witness who says He has come invisibly because the event will be opened to everyone and it's not what someone will tell another person about everyone on EARTH will experience the event by themselves.....

None of this was experienced during your presence in 1914 no wonder it was tagged INVISIBLE PRESENCE....

Scammer JWs

Emusan:
Firstly, stop hiding behind bar to spam my mention after I've exposed your lies.

Secondly, your lack of scriptural understanding is greatly affecting you.

Lastly, let this stick to your empty skull...what we're discussing here is the event that will happen at the second coming of Christ.

Where you people are missing it, is using lies to lump this event together...

For instance:
1. The first claim was, the asleep people are those who died before Christ presence
2. The statement in 1 Thess 4 is for those under the Christ presence
3. The claim that those who will be resurrected ASLEEP ONES and the ONES in this current presence of Christ will reign with Him....
4. Yet resurrection is still taking place (that is the quick ones: the one that will not fall asleep)
5. Yet according to your deluded organization, not everyone will reign with Christ not even some but MANY people will be resurrected back to earth.
6. Which means as some JWs will die some will be quickly resurrected while the rest will be left ASLEEP in the grave....

This now leaves us with the question, why will some people be left asleep and some be resurrected instantly when we are already at the Christ presence that the statement of 1 Thess 4 said to happen?

Mr second coming, since all the dead good and unrighteous will be ressurected when Jesus comes , ( John 5:28,29) , where is the first ressurection ?

Emusan:
Dubious JWs.....the same word in the same verse cant be given two different event.

Second coming is the rounding up of the event and is just one event while THE SIGNS that preceding that event is what is happening right now in the word...

Second coming has not happened....if it happened the way scripture described it is what we'll experience just as we can experience the same PRECEEDING SIGNS now...when He comes, AL KINDREDS OF EARTH will wail BECAUSE OF HIM, people will see Him, it will be as lightning shineth from the east to west, that's why Christ warned us against people like Jehovah witness who says He has come invisibly because the event will be opened to everyone and it's not what someone will tell another person about everyone on EARTH will experience the event by themselves.....

None of this was experienced during your presence in 1914 no wonder it was tagged INVISIBLE PRESENCE....

Scammer JWs

Who are those that will reign with Christ for a thousand years ? Those who experience the first ressurection ?

Barristter07:
I already tell the repercussions of both words in my former post.

If Christ come in the cloud that gives credence to his words that the world will see him no more. An aeroplane in the cloud is not visible.

And concerning the change , you finally proved it's for all of them going to heaven, From perishable to imperishable.

As we have borne the image of the one from dust, we will also bear the image of the heavenly one. Says verse 47-49 that's CHANGE for all of them . But before receiving that new body, the present one must die.

1 Corinthians 15:36 " 36 How foolish! What you sow does not come to life unless it dies. "

You're a liar...

The word is just interpretation....why some interpreted as presence, some COMING but it was describing just one EVENT!

So not that there will be Christ presence first then COMING after!

The change is for those who are still on earth ALIVE when Christ will come because when Christ will come PEOPLE WILL STILL BE ALIVE ON EARTH, healthy and living fine...not that everyone on earth will be in a state of DEATH.

So what apostle Paul described is for those who will be alive when the quick catching away will happen....

In summary of what Apostle Paul meant:

At the second coming of Christ, the dead ones will rise first [having the incorruptible body] while the living one will be changed (their current state which is corrupted body into incorruptible body [as flesh and blood can't inherit the kingdom of God] and these two will reign with Christ)

Barristter07:
Mr second coming, since all the dead good and unrighteous will be ressurected when Jesus comes , ( John 5:28,29) , where is the first ressurection ?

When the dead people good and unrighteous will be resurrected is for the final judgment of Christ where everyone will be judge and sent to their final destination including Devil, the first resurrection is catching away of the saints from the event of the Antichrist, that will be allowed to reign for awhile on earth.

I'm tired of this Sunday school lecture abeg...

Go for Sunday school you know go gree

Emusan:
You're a liar...

The word is just interpretation....why some interpreted as presence, some COMING but it was describing just one EVENT!

So not that there will be Christ presence first then COMING after!

The change is for those who are still on earth ALIVE when Christ will come because when Christ will come PEOPLE WILL STILL BE ALIVE ON EARTH, healthy and living fine...not that everyone on earth will be in a state of DEATH.

So what apostle Paul described is for those who will be alive when the quick catching away will happen....

In summary of what Apostle Paul meant:

At the second coming of Christ, the dead ones will rise first [having the incorruptible body] while the living one will be changed (their current state which is corrupted body into incorruptible body [as flesh and blood can't inherit the kingdom of God] and these two will reign with Christ)

You are just making noise, for anyone to reign with Christ in heaven, they must have a share in the first ressurection. You are preaching an hoax

Barristter07:
Who are those that will reign with Christ for a thousand years ? Those who experience the first ressurection ?

Lol, he will avoid this like plague

Barristter07:
Who are those that will reign with Christ for a thousand years ? Those who experience the first ressurection ?

This is my post "Second coming is the rounding up of the event and is just one event while THE SIGNS that preceding that event is what is happening right now in the word...
Second coming has not happened....if it happened the way scripture described it is what we'll experience just as we can experience the same PRECEEDING SIGNS now...when He comes, AL KINDREDS OF EARTH will wail BECAUSE OF HIM, people will see Him, it will be as lightning shineth from the east to west, that's why Christ warned us against people like Jehovah witness who says He has come invisibly because the event will be opened to everyone and it's not what someone will tell another person about everyone on EARTH will experience the event by themselves.....
None of this was experienced during your presence in 1914 no wonder it was tagged INVISIBLE PRESENCE....

Provide the evidence that all these happened in 1914 your demonic organization claimed the invisible return....

Emusan:
When the dead people good and unrighteous will be resurrected is for the final judgment of Christ where everyone will be judge and sent to their final destination including Devil, the first resurrection is catching away of the saints from the event of the Antichrist, that will be allowed to reign for awhile on earth.

I'm tired of this Sunday school lecture abeg...

Go for Sunday school you know go gree

Emusan, you are the comedian of the year.

The same final destination of those ruling with Christ ? No be heaven again ? Then it means first ressurection have no significance . cos all those ruling with Christ have a share in it now you are saying people will be sent to their final destination . heaven again to rule with Christ. Haba

Jozzy4:
You are just making noise, for anyone to reign with Christ in heaven, they must have a share in the first ressurection. You are preaching an hoax

Finding and escape route....

You're preaching lies and deceits

Emusan:
This is my post "Second coming is the rounding up of the event and is just one event while THE SIGNS that preceding that event is what is happening right now in the word...
Second coming has not happened....if it happened the way scripture described it is what we'll experience just as we can experience the same PRECEEDING SIGNS now...when He comes, AL KINDREDS OF EARTH will wail BECAUSE OF HIM, people will see Him, it will be as lightning shineth from the east to west, that's why Christ warned us against people like Jehovah witness who says He has come invisibly because the event will be opened to everyone and it's not what someone will tell another person about everyone on EARTH will experience the event by themselves.....
None of this was experienced during your presence in 1914 no wonder it was tagged
INVISIBLE PRESENCE ....

Provide the evidence that all these happened in 1914 your demonic organization claimed the invisible return....

The world will see me no more - Jesus .

The question he asked was : who are those ruling with Christ ? Those having a share in the first ressurection ?

Emusan:
I believe this include your brothers too, right?



You are using your JW understanding to ask this question and if we turn the question around, we can then ask you, is Christ not ruling now? according to you..



So now that Christ is ruling according to you, why is Satan still misleading people?



The beast that will force people to take its mark and without the mark there won't be transactions, which is the purpose of this thread.

The reign is just the moment Christ took away His saints from the world and allowed the beast to run its one world/New world/new order government , not the interpretation your organization have

You should have noticed that i don't fancy arguments of no practical benefits so when there no progressive understanding between us i'll stylishly quit the discussion!

What Jehovah's Witnesses taught me is that Jesus cast Satan out of heaven in 1914 as the beginning of his heavenly rule, Satan immediately began devastating the relative peace on earth {Revelations 12:7-9}

But in heaven those living there have no business with counting of days months or years since they have all the time to do what they have to do, it's here on earth that we need taking note of time because death rules in our midst and whether we like it or not we will grow old and die.

The 1,000 years spoken of at Revelations 20:1-5 could only make sense to the inhabitants of the earth who must reckon with times!

So when Jehovah's Witnesses now said Jesus' 1,000 years rule has not began, i started meditating on what was WRITTEN in the scriptures, if the thousand years reign of Christ will commence Satan and his cohorts will be thrown in the abyss (state of inactivity) since the Bible confirmed that during Jesus 1,000 year reign "Satan and his group won't be allowed to mislead people anymore "

That's why i want to hear your own understanding on the issue since you disagree with the Jehovah's Witnesses on their interpretation here.

Please where will Jesus' rule take effect within the space of 1,000 years Heaven or Earth?

When will Satan or AntiChrist or Whatever begin his own rule and where Heaven or Earth?

Will both Satan and Jesus reign at the same time?

If not what has Jesus' rule got to do with the inhabitants of the earth?
Because Jesus asked us to pray for God's Kingdom to come, where God's will (rule) will become effective on earth as it is taking place in heaven! Matthew 6:10
And according to Apostle Paul God's kingdom will not tolerate 99% of what is happening on planet earth today!
So going by Apostle Paul's comment God's kingdom has not come to the earth!

Emusan:
Finding and escape route....

You're preaching lies and deceits

You are a big joke. Jesus will ressurect the saint yet will leave some good ones in the grave for judgment again . And according to you they have the same hope to reign with Christ ? First ressurection ?

Jozzy4:
Jozzy4, you are the most deluded person of the year.

The same final destination of those ruling with Christ ? No be heaven again ? Then it means first ressurection have no significance . cos all those ruling with Christ have a share in it now you are saying people will be sent to their final destination . heaven again to rule with Christ. Haba

For the last time....
The first resurrection is catching away of the saints from the event of Antichrist....

Then there will be resurrection of both the good and the wicked for final judgment....the judgement of the Saints will be their rewards...

I said it, what you people lack is Sunday school lecture....

My friend go for Sunday school tomorrow

Jozzy4:
You are a big joke. Jesus will ressurect the saint yet will leave some good ones in the grave for judgment again . And according to you they have the same hope to reign with Christ ? First ressurection ?

It's evident you don't understand this thread, so take a back seat for now

And if you think you have something reasonable to say....i will put it to you that:

Now, list all the event that will happen from now to the end of the whole system of things ACCORDING to the scripture orderly....

Emusan:
For the last time....
The first resurrection is catching away of the saints from the event of Antichrist....

After the catching away would now come back for judgment ba ? . I thought the verse says " we shall always be with the Lord "

Then there will be resurrection of both the good and the wicked for final judgment....the judgement of the Saints will be their rewards...

I said it, what you people lack is Sunday school lecture....

My friend go for Sunday school tomorrow

This ya judgement dey amaze me o ,

So those caught away will be.killed again to be ressurected again ? Cos I don't get why some saints are still in the grave when Jesus was raising the dead again.

Wicked final judgement ? Hahahaba I thought they are judged when they die, to check if there was a mistake in the previous judgment ba ?

Emusan:
For the last time....
The first resurrection is catching away of the saints from the event of Antichrist....

Then there will be resurrection of both the good and the wicked for final judgment....the judgement of the Saints will be their rewards...

I said it, what you people lack is Sunday school lecture....

My friend go for Sunday school tomorrow

Both dead and alive are included in the caughting away by first ressurection ?

Emusan:
When the dead people good and unrighteous will be resurrected is for the final judgment of Christ where everyone will be judge and sent to their final destination including Devil, the first resurrection is catching away of the saints from the event of the Antichrist, that will be allowed to reign for awhile on earth.

I'm tired of this Sunday school lecture abeg...

Go for Sunday school you know go gree

Which good again, I thought all of them that are saints have followed the first ressurection ? your effort to differentiate is just hitting the wall.

Whether you like it or not, using the word coming place all ressurection at the exact same time. Which is unscriptural.

Beside I still repeat that point again: First ressurection is essential for all who will reign with Christ

Emusan:
For the last time....
(1)The first resurrection is catching away of the saints from the event of Antichrist....

Then (2)there will be resurrection of both the good and the wicked for final judgment....the judgement of the Saints will be their rewards...

I said it, what you people lack is Sunday school lecture....

My friend go for Sunday school tomorrow

Please Mr Emusan, if the FIRST RESURRECTION means catching away of the saints (good ones) for the event of AntiChrist.
Does that mean the good have been resurrected?
Because your second sentence somehow seems confusing.
WHY?
The saints (righteous) have been resurrected and taken away, so it means the second resurrection should be pure for only the wicked and not for both the good and the wicked again, since all the good ones have been resurrected during the first resurrection.
Please i'll wish you to clarify that!

Emusan:
It's evident you don't understand this thread, so take a back seat for now

And if you think you have something reasonable to say....i will put it to you that:

Now, list all the event that will happen from now to the end of the whole system of things ACCORDING to the scripture orderly....

Since these people don't go to Sunday school as you do, and you're here to prove them wrong.
Is it not better you answer these questions to show everyone following NOT only JWs that you fully grasp what you're saying?
This person's question is showing some loopholes in your Sunday school interpretation, so if you're now insisting he should join your so called Sunday school program, how do you expect other followers to see that it's not just some kind of brainwashing that's going on in your so called Sunday school?

So don't just assume that it's only you and Jehovah's Witnesses that's following the thread, when you're asked a question, try to make a reasonable response or just say "I don't know!"

Jozzy4:
I believe your quote was clear enough.

Thank you for eventually accepting JWs BELIEVE in TWO HOPES for CHRISTIANS even WHEN the scriptures states CLEARLY ONE.

Emusan:
Firstly, stop hiding behind bar to spam my mention after I've exposed your lies.

Secondly, your lack of scriptural understanding is greatly affecting you.

Lastly, let this stick to your empty skull...what we're discussing here is the event that will happen at the second coming of Christ.

Where you people are missing it, is using lies to lump this event together...

For instance:
1. The first claim was, the asleep people are those who died before Christ presence
2. The statement in 1 Thess 4 is for those under the Christ presence
3. The claim that those who will be resurrected ASLEEP ONES and the ONES in this current presence of Christ will reign with Him....
4. Yet resurrection is still taking place (that is the quick ones: the one that will not fall asleep)
5. Yet according to your deluded organization, not everyone will reign with Christ not even some but MANY people will be resurrected back to earth.
6. Which means as some JWs will die some will be quickly resurrected while the rest will be left ASLEEP in the grave....

This now leaves us with the question, why will some people be left asleep and some be resurrected instantly when we are already at the Christ presence that the statement of 1 Thess 4 said to happen?

Thank you!

The point below simply means

the GB of JWs and those EATING THE EMBLEMS at the MEMORIAL of christ death(which the JWS see as the ANOINTED ONES) get RESURRECTION in twinkling of an eye UPON DEATH while those still ALIVE wait for THEIR TIME TO DIE, the reason you see THEM trying hard to HANG on to Revelation 20:6. Should they decide to drop REV 20:6 they know their CHRIST INVISIBLE PRESENCE comes to NOTHING and their BELIEFs concerning 1 Thessa comes to NONSENSE.

Therefore rephrasing point 6 it becomes

"6. Which means as some JWs will die some will be quickly resurrected( aka THE BORN AGAINS/ THE Governing body/ THE ANOINTED JWS) while the rest will be left ASLEEP in the grave (THE GREAT CROWD OF OTHER SHEEP or NON ANOINTED JWS)...."

To Emusan for your reading pleasure and see the mindset embedded in Jozzy4, barristter07......how they use POSSIBLY, MAYBE, CANNOT DIRECTLY CONFIRM, IT SEEMS to cause confusion here ad there.

A look at paragraph 11 and 12 no single scriptures is used to back whatever is written or contained in there.......

Now Under Way?

9. How do Revelation 12:7 and 17:14 help us to approximate the time when the first resurrection begins?

9 When does the first resurrection occur? There is strong evidence that it is now under way. For example, compare two chapters of Revelation. First, look at Revelation chapter 12. There we read that the newly enthroned Jesus Christ, along with his holy angels, wages war against Satan and his demons. (Revelation 12:7-9) As this journal has often shown, that battle began in 1914.* Notice, though, that none of Christ’s anointed followers are said to be with Jesus in that heavenly war. Now look at chapter 17 of Revelation. We read there that after the destruction of “Babylon the Great,” the Lamb will conquer the nations. Then it adds: “Also, those called and chosen and faithful with him will do so.” (Revelation 17:5, 14) “Called and chosen and faithful” ones must already have been resurrected if they are to be with Jesus for the final defeat of Satan’s world. Reasonably, then, anointed ones who die before Armageddon are resurrected sometime between 1914 and Armageddon.

10, 11. (a) Who are the 24 elders, and what does one of them reveal to John? (b) What can we deduce from this?

10 Can we say more precisely when the first resurrection begins? An interesting clue is found at Revelation 7:9-15, where the apostle John describes his vision of “a great crowd, which no man was able to number.” The identity of that great crowd is revealed to John by one of the 24 elders, and these elders represent the 144,000 joint heirs with Christ in their heavenly glory.* (Luke 22:28-30; Revelation 4:4) John himself had a heavenly hope; but since he was still a man on earth when the elder spoke to him, in the vision John must represent anointed ones on earth who have not yet received their heavenly reward.

11 What, then, can we deduce from the fact that one of the 24 elders identifies the great crowd to John? IT SEEMS THAT RESURRECTED ONES of the 24-ELDERS GROUP MAY BE involved in the COMMUNICATING of DIVINE TRUTHS TODAY. Why is that important? Because the correct identity of the GREAT CROWD was revealed to God’s ANOINTED servants on EARTH in 1935. If one of the 24 ELDERS was used to convey that IMPORTANT TRUTH, he would have had to be RESURRECTED to heaven by 1935 at the LATEST. That would indicate that the FIRST RESURRECTION began sometime between 1914 and 1935. Can we be more precise?

12. Explain why the spring of 1918 MAY be VIEWED as a POSSIBLE time for the first resurrection to begin.

12 At this point, it may be helpful to consider what might be viewed as a Bible parallel. Jesus Christ was anointed as the future King of God’s Kingdom in the fall of 29 C.E. Three and a half years later, in the spring of 33 C.E., he was resurrected as a mighty spirit person. Could it, then, be REASONED that since Jesus was ENTHRONED in the FALL of 1914, the resurrection of his faithful anointed followers began three and a half years later, in the spring of 1918? That is AN INTERESTING POSSIBILITY. Although this CANNOT be DIRECTLY CONFIRMED in the BIBLE, it is not out of harmony with other scriptures that indicate that the first resurrection got under way soon after Christ’s presence began.


https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/2007006#h=8


Finally from the same article........

God’s Word does not DISCLOSE a PRECISE DATE for the FIRST RESURRECTION, and you see them make COMMENT as if God gave them a PRECISE DATE first RESURRECTION started.

Jozzy4:
Transporting of some believers to heaven from earth , without them dying, so ?

To Oga Jozzy4 when individuals join discussion learn to read through and try understand there sense of direction when they make post here on this platform, your first SALVO on this thread was.........

Jozzy4: There is nothing like RAPTURE. Read your Bible.........Jozzy4: 4:47pm On Mar 08

Achorladey: Now read the BELOW........

Does this mean that there will be a “rapture” of the anointed ones? Many in Christendom believe, according to this teaching, that Christians will be bodily caught up from the earth. Then, they expect that Jesus will visibly return to rule the earth. However, the Bible clearly shows that “the sign of the Son of man” will appear in heaven and that Jesus will come “on the clouds of heaven.” (Matt. 24:30) Both of these expressions imply invisibility. Additionally, “flesh and blood cannot inherit God’s Kingdom.” So those who will be taken to heaven will first need to be “changed, in a moment, in the blink of an eye, during the last trumpet.” * (Read 1 Corinthians 15:50-53.) Therefore, while we do not use the TERM “RAPTURE” here because of its WRONG CONNOTATION, the remaining faithful anointed will be GATHERED TOGETHER in an INSTANT OF TIME.

https://www.jw.org/en/library/magazines/w20150715/rapture-anointed-great-tribulation/


Do JEHOVAH’S WITNESSES believe in the RAPTURE? The term “RAPTURE” isn’t found in scripture and unless THEY HAD COINED the TERM themselves, JEHOVAH’S WITNESSES are UNLIKELY to refer to the PHENOMENON of being CAUGHT UP into HEAVEN as a “RAPTURE”.

Jehovah’s Witnesses believe in the rapture. The only reason they don’t like to use the term is because some Christian denominations believe that they will be caught up bodily from the earth. But the truth be told, many denominations believe in the rapture and, like Jehovah’s Witnesses, believe that they will be “CHANGED IN the BLINK OF AN EYE”.


For your reading pleasure Oga Jozzy4 and to your brothers and feel free to add.........

U NO WELL when responding to it. Hahahahaha!

achorladey:
Thank you for eventually accepting JWs BELIEVE in TWO HOPES for CHRISTIANS even WHEN the scriptures states CLEARLY ONE.

Jesus said some will go to heaven:-
Matthew 5:3

Jesus said some will inherit the earth:-
Matthew 5:5

David:- Psalms 37:9-11, 29; 67:6-7
Solomon:- Proverbs 2:20-22
Isaiah:- 2:1-4; 65:21-25

All said everlasting life will be on earth!

Only Jesus made a totally strange promise of taking his followers to heaven {John 14:1-4} this has never been heard before, Jesus explained that those going there must be transformed into spirits so they must be born again {John 3:3} they won't marry because marriage is meant for flesh and blood {Luke 20:35-36} their purpose is to rule over the earth as Kings and Priests {Revelations 20:6} this made their own resurrection different from all others {Revelations 20:5} in every society the ruling class are referred to as the FIRST citizens so the born again are the FIRST to be resurrected and their residence where the will live in their destination (heaven) is already PREPARED by Jesus unlike the others who will build their own houses! Isaiah 65:21

The one hope stands which is LIFE ETERNAL, so whether their going to live in heaven or on earth God will bless them all because he is the owner of both heaven and earth, when Satan, demons and their human agents are gone for good God will bless all those who belongs to him either in heaven or on earth! 1Corinthians 15:26-28