₦airaland Forum

jamesversion:
in all, kudos to you for such a high level of self development. human capacity has always been the best form of development known to man.

All this praise for me. Hmm
I take it that you agree that Christianity and Islam have been destructive influences in Africa among black people

omonnakoda:
All this praise for me. Hmm
I take it that you agree that Christianity and Islam have been destructive influences in Africa among black people

I believe in God but I avoid overtly religious people. I do what is right, especially as dictated by law and my conscience. That's all.

Islam is perfect. Muslims are the opposite. Some few Muslims bastardized the religion.

jamesversion:
I believe in God but I avoid overtly religious people. I do what is right, especially as dictated by law and my conscience. That's all.

Africans have generally, always believed in God. We did not need Islam or Christianity for that did we?

chisani:
Islam is perfect. Muslims are the opposite. Some few Muslims bastardized the religion.

As a Muslim myself, the main problem of Muslims is that some of them forgot that sometimes we have to change with the times.

Christianity was able to show that much love because the Europeans modified it to evolve with civilization and societal norms. That’s why you can see people wearing weavon and any kind of cloth in church. It’s not like that in the Bible but Christian leaders understood that there are some things that need to be modified as civilization progress.


Some Muslims are the exact opposite of this. They see Islam as a system of governance that encompass all their way of life and they take it like a culture. They refuse to charge with the times and you can’t use a thousand years ago intellect for the current century because the world/people are dynamic.

Most aspects of the Sharia law in this age and time is utterly useless and got to be abolished forever. Like Omonakoda said about Tunisia and Turkey abolishing polygamy because they have seen how bad it affects society. That is the kind of societal changes Islam need to undergo and with people still having a fixed mindset to the practices of the old, then Islam will continue to be toxic.

Either way, religion in general is now a curse to Africans rather than blessing.

padi94:
Religion is a way of life, let's respect all... am not condemning your writeup. But let's respect differences.

Religion is a personal beliefs that must be limited to your bedroom. Respect constituted authorities

This is the dilemma of Islam the "faith" and Islam the "political ideology" both are intertwined in the doctrine with no clear line of divide.

The case with the west and Christianity was that it was able to separate the matters of religion from that of the state and this was made possibly because of various events that happened in its history, but the most important factor that sustained such a thing was the simple Bible verse "Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar's; and to God the things that are God's." Which essentially meant that the Christian doctrine allowed for such a separation.

Islam on the other hand lacks such a separation, and this made it an all encompassing ideology and why it's difficult for a Muslim majority country or state to maintain its secular status for long, or without the emergence of radical elements in that society, because there exists no theological justification for much a separation... Or so I thought.
Here is a hadith we rarely explore.
The narration in Sahih Muslim is as follows:

After arriving in Medina, the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) passed by some people who were fecundating some date palms, so he asked them what they were doing. When they told him, he said, “I don’t think that will provide any benefit,” or in another narration, “It would be better if you didn’t do that.”

So they refrained from doing it, and that year the crop was not as good. They mentioned it to him (peace and blessings be upon him), and he replied:

“I am only a human: if I command you to do something in your religion, then take it; but if I tell you to do something based on personal opinion, then [realize] that I am only human,” and in another narration, “Yet if I inform you of something from Allah, then do it, for indeed I will never convey an untruth on behalf of Allah Mighty and Majestic,” and in yet another narration, “You know better of your worldly affairs.”

[url]
https://seekersguidance.org/answers/general-counsel/the-prophets-judgement-on-worldly-matters-a-commentary-on-the-hadith-on-pollination-and-affairs-of-this-world/[/url] reference

Now this doesn't make a sufficient theological case for the separation of church and state according to some clerics, but it undeniably opens the door for independent reasoning, based on facts, experience and expertise on worldly matters and we shouldn't down play the significance of it.
Another implication of this hadith is the humanness of the prophet (SAW) and brings into question did he make mistakes and should his every actions outside the worshipping of Allah be emulated?
[This would lead me into my opinions/critique of the sunnah and the muslim perceptions of it, but this would derail the subject here and I'm saving it up for a possible thread or not]

whatisthetruth:
You are not understanding my point. Those that were interviewed in the US were also “liberal” Muslims, but it doesn’t change the fact that is a mandate by their religion.

Unless by liberal you mean, a non practicing Muslim.

To be fair to them, it's like asking a communist "would rather live in a democratic or communist system" of course they would choose communism because it's what they believe in.

I feel the questioning itself was flawed.
Because a democracy with a muslim majority could still vote for a Sharia court system.
And a secular country could also be autocratic.
A proper question should had been "a secular or Sharia system/society"

OP you have a point

padi94:
But once upon a time the church was a political system run by the Pope.
Muslim population has been under threat from time immemorial. Maybe that is why they hv developed it into a political system.

But once again not undermining your writeup.

Sharia has always been a political system

chisani:
Islam is perfect. Muslims are the opposite. Some few Muslims bastardized the religion.

I don't think you have read the quran

omonnakoda:
I wonder whether you have the capacity or education to do justice to this issue.

Many of these violent and even genocidal commands are in the bible too however SOCIETY moved beyond that without changing the bible e.g.

This quote is not from the Quran but the bible

Numbers 31

Now kill all the boys. And kill every woman who has slept with a man, 18 but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man.


As far as we in Africa are concerned both religions are plagues.

However we have seen from European society that they can reform and I believe that is because many of those things you complain about are Middle Eastern CULTURES even before Islam.

They did not fit in with European culture and were easier for them to discard e.g polygamy ,foo taboos etc

Islam necessarily entails Arabization and some cultures are more susceptible to that than others.

What of anyone that leave islam, is it in Bible to kill such a person?

Or for blaspheming Muhammad is it In Bible that death is the reward?

Use your brain next time ok

padi94:
Religion is a way of life, let's respect all... am not condemning your writeup. But let's respect differences.

I can respect people but not all religions.

I cannot respect religions that doesn't respect my position, a religion that it doctrines ordered death sentence for my position because I don't believe in it, a religions that dehumanize homosexuals, apostates, women, non-believers etc.

Islam and Christianity are mostly the Religion I cannot respect, I can respect it people if they're not fanatics.

FIRDAUS3:
You cannot escape it naa. Allaah will Surely catch you.

And when Allaah catches you, you're doomed.

Allah that is in a spiritual cage your Muhammed that has mental problem and pedophile spirit will catch ☝️me ko Allah(S.W.T)
A.K.A Allah (SEE.WE.TERRORISTS) ✴️✴️ Your Illiterate Allah that only understands Arabic and Sends a Pedophile as a Prophet as a messenger you are just as Stupid as Prophet Mohammed (PBUH) AKA Mohammed (PLEASE BE USELESS AS HELL)

⭕How Will a Man serve A God that only understands Arabic?
ANSWER: lack of common Sense ☺️

⭕How will a man listen to a prophet that had up to twelve wives and tells you you can only marry four?
ANSWER: Lack of common Sense ☺️

IslamSucks Loves❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️ You♥️♥️♥️♥️♥️♥️☺️☺️☺️♥️♥️❤️✴️☺️⛪⛪⛪⭕⭕⭕⭐✌️

whatisthetruth:
These are some of the LAWS OF SHARIA

Theft is punishable by amputation of the hands (Quran 5:38).

• Criticizing or denying any part of the Quran is punishable by death.

• Criticizing Muhammad or denying that he is a prophet is punishable by death.

• Criticizing or denying Allah is punishable by death

• A Muslim who becomes a non-Muslim is punishable by death

• A non-Muslim who leads a Muslim away from Islam is punishable by death.

• A non-Muslim man who marries a Muslim woman is punishable by death.

• A woman or girl who has been raped cannot testify in court against her rapist(s).

• Testimonies of 4 male witnesses are required to prove rape of a female (Quran 24:13).

• A woman or girl who alleges rape without producing 4 male witnesses is guilty of adultery.

• A woman or girl found guilty of adultery is punishable by death

• A male convicted of rape can have his conviction dismissed by marrying his victim.

• Muslim men have sexual rights to any woman/girl not wearing the Hijab

• A woman can have 1 husband, who can have up to 4 wives; Muhammad can have more.

• A man can marry an infant girl and consummate the marriage when she is 9 years old.

• Girls' clitoris should be cut (Muhammad's words, Book 41, Kitab Al-Adab, Hadith 5251).

• A man can beat his wife for insubordination (see Quran 4:34 and Religion of Peace).

• A man can unilaterally divorce his wife; a wife needs her husband's consent to divorce.
• A divorced wife loses custody of all children over 6 years of age or when they exceed it.

• A woman's testimony in court, allowed in property cases, carries ½ the weight of a man's.

• A female heir inherits half of what a male heir inherits (see Mathematics in Quran).

• A woman cannot speak alone to a man who is not her husband or relative.

• Meat to eat must come from animals that have been sacrificed to Allah - i.e., be "Halal."

• Muslims should engage in Taqiyya and lie to non-Muslims to advance Islam.

where is the proof to all this copy and paste you did? you provided just to references ?

chisani:
Islam is perfect. Muslims are the opposite. Some few Muslims bastardized the religion.

LOL.