masterP042:

Not all scientists claim the world originated from a big bang or evolution, it's just a theory or speculation, it's just a probable guess, it hasn't been proven beyond reasonable doubt. Scientists work with proofs and evidence. But christians claiming explicitly that God created the world, without giving us any clear proof, it's not a fact, and doesn't make it true. They're yet to prove the existence of God not to talk of how God created the universe.
To me I rather believe that I don't know yet how the world came about than believing that one imaginary sky daddy created the world from nothing. I rather leave the gap open than fill it with a god or deity.

You obviously don't know what a scientific theory is nor do you understand what the Big Bang is. Look these things up and upgrade your knowledge.

LordReed:


Strawman. Atheism never posits to answer any big questions of life and existence except the question of belief in a god or gods.

That makes atheism a narrow philosophy without depth.

(Though it's lot better than being a slave of devilish gods like Allah and Yahweh.)

masterP042:

Not all scientists claim the world originated from a big bang or evolution, it's just a theory or speculation, it's just a probable guess, it hasn't been proven beyond reasonable doubt. Scientists work with proofs and evidence. But christians claiming explicitly that God created the world, without giving us any clear proof, it's not a fact, and doesn't make it true. They're yet to prove the existence of God not to talk of how God created the universe.
To me I rather believe that I don't know yet how the world came about than believing that one imaginary sky daddy created the world from nothing. I rather leave the gap open than fill it with a god or deity.

I like your open stance, it's good to say the least. Science is helping to shape the way we understand the physical universe, but take note science doesn't prove the ABSENCE of SOMETHING but only proves what is present. That is why with science we say NOTHING IS IMPOSSIBLE. literally the slogan doesn't mean nothing is impossible but actually means if we can think it, and solve the maths problems behind it, we surely can achieve it. Sir Isaac Newton proved the existence of gravity (gravity always existed but Newton formally discovered it's existence and wrote about it), Albert Einstein proved that gravity alters space and time (gravity always did, but he proved it and from him we all understood it) and the list goes on and on. Science itself admits it has its limitations. Somethings will have to be assumed rather than experimented on and for that reason God easily cannot be overuled but I'll stop here. If you want to find out more quote me

gensteejay:

That makes atheism a narrow philosophy without depth.

(Though it's lot better than being a slave of devilish gods like Allah and Yahweh.)

Nor does it claim to be a philosophy so another strawman. It is like asking someone do you eat bread and he replies no then you say that's a narrow philosophy.

LordReed:


Nor does it claim to be a philosophy so another strawman. It is like asking someone do you eat bread and he replies no then you say that's a narrow philosophy.

You've never heard of the philosophy of atheism?

gensteejay:

You've never heard of the philosophy of atheism?

No. Can you show me where you saw it?

LordReed:


No. Can you show me where you saw it?

There's philosophy of science, philosophy of religion, philosophy of sports, philosophy of atheism, philosophy of theism

Perfectbeing:
Even the devil is not an atheist.

But God is

Hahjascho:
Lol.....I guess you've been misinformed.
Anyway, no man has power to change anyone except God, through deep, self revelation.... reasons why most who are lucky to experience near-death experience eventually acknowledge God's existence.....



For as long you maintain your stand and justification while not ready to submit your old convictions, I guess it won't ever make any meaning to you...

But you know what, it's the real universal truth of which even many chronic un -believers chose to believe eventually.

Ur first and second bolded are contradictory.

U said only God has the power to change people then u turn around and say it depends on the person's maintained stance..

So u are saying God cannot change anyone if they decide not to change their stance?

What exactly can ur God do without the human mind?

gensteejay:

There's philosophy of science, philosophy of religion, philosophy of sports, philosophy of atheism, philosophy of theism

Give me a source where you saw philosophy of atheism.

LordReed:


Give me a source where you saw philosophy of atheism.

Lols. Guess you need to check the meaning of "philosophy" again.

If you check "philosophy" on Wikipedia under the section on "Philosophy of religion" and subsection Existence of God, you will read about different philosophies on that subject matter, including theism, atheism, etc.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philosophy

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Existence_of_God

gensteejay:

Lols. Guess you need to check the meaning of "philosophy" again.

If you check "philosophy" on Wikipedia under the section on "Philosophy of religion" and subsection Existence of God, you will read about different philosophies on that subject matter, including theism, atheism, etc.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philosophy

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Existence_of_God

You said there is a philosophy of atheism, just show me a source clearly marked philosophy of atheism.

LordReed:


You said there is a philosophy of atheism, just show me a source clearly marked philosophy of atheism.

Philosophy: "a theory or attitude that acts as a guiding principle for behaviour." The definition of "philosophy" from the Oxford Dictionary.

How is atheism not a kind of philosophy? Should this even be up for a debate?

gensteejay:

Philosophy: "a theory or attitude that acts as a guiding principle for behaviour." The definition of "philosophy" from the Oxford Dictionary.

How is atheism not a kind of philosophy? Should this even be up for a debate?

Philosophy of mathematics, philosophy of science, these are real things. Philosophy of atheism was made up by you.

LordReed:


Philosophy of mathematics, philosophy of science, these are real things. Philosophy of atheism was made up by you.

Lols. You obviously don't understand what you're saying. How will philosophy apply to virtually every field, movement and religion on earth, including sports and arts and exclude atheism? Does that make sense to you?

Maybe I was the one that put the definition of the term in Oxford dictionary as well. or I wrote the dictionary.

How is atheism not a kind of philosophy when several other fields, religions, and movements are?

gensteejay:

Lols. You obviously don't understand what you're saying. How will philosophy apply to virtually every field and religion on earth, including sports and arts and exclude atheism? Does that make sense to you?

Maybe I was the one that put the definition of the term in Oxford dictionary as well. or I wrote the dictionary.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philosophy_of_science
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philosophy_of_mathematics

Very simple find me philosophy of atheism or you just dreamed it up.

LordReed:


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philosophy_of_science
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philosophy_of_mathematics

Very simple find me philosophy of atheism or you just dreamed it up.

This is philosophy as defined by Oxford dictionary: "a theory or attitude that acts as a guiding principle for behaviour." How is atheism not a kind of philosophy?

Maybe you're mixing up "philosophy" as a term with "religion" because this issue isn't even debatable.

gensteejay:

This is philosophy as defined by Oxford dictionary: "a theory or attitude that acts as a guiding principle for behaviour." How is atheism not a kind of philosophy?

Maybe you're mixing up "philosophy" as a term with "religion" because this issue isn't even debatable.

When asked to provide a source and you can't then indeed there is no debate, you made it up.

LordReed:


When asked to provide a source and you can't then indeed there is no debate, you made it up.

You're merely arguing for the mere sake of it. I don't have time for this kind of discussion.

This is a simple matter that requires no argument whatsoever but you must defend your atheistic dogma. No sense in being dogmatic.

"There are also several philosophical positions with regard to the existence of God that one might take including various forms of theism (such as monotheism and polytheism), agnosticism and different forms of atheism." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philosophy_of_religion

If that doesn't show you the philosophy of atheism, then that means you don't understand what atheism is all about in the first place.

Philosophy: "a theory or attitude that acts as a guiding principle for behaviour." That definition clearly defines the atheistic philosophy.

gensteejay:

You're merely arguing for the mere sake of it. I don't have time for this kind of discussion.

This is a simple matter that requires no argument whatsoever but you must defend your atheistic dogma. No sense in being dogmatic.

"There are also several philosophical positions with regard to the existence of God that one might take including various forms of theism (such as monotheism and polytheism), agnosticism and different forms of atheism." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philosophy_of_religion

If that doesn't show you the philosophy of atheism, then that means you don't understand what atheism is all about in the first place.

Philosophy: "a theory or attitude that acts as a guiding principle for behaviour." That definition clearly defines the atheistic philosophy.

You made it up, just admit it.

LordReed:


You made it up, just admit it.

Yea, I am the author of the Wikipedia articles and Oxford dictionary. Happy now?

LordReed:


You made it up, just admit it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atheism#Atheistic_philosophies

I made that up as well.

And this too: The Epistemology of Atheism, https://www.iep.utm.edu/atheism/#H2

Epistemology is a core aspect of philosophy.

gensteejay:

Yea, I am the author of the Wikipedia articles and Oxford dictionary. Happy now?

Your sarcasm is irrelevant, you made it up and we both know it.

gensteejay:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atheism#Atheistic_philosophies

I made that up as well.

And this too: The Epistemology of Atheism, https://www.iep.utm.edu/atheism/#H2

Epistemology is a core aspect of philosophy.

Are those written as philosophy of atheism? You should pay attention to what you read. Also did you see that there are different atheistic philosophies? That there is no one philosophy of atheism? You should read to understand not just regurgitate for argument sake.

Still the same stories without evidence

LordReed:


Are those written as philosophy of atheism? You should pay attention to what you read. Also did you see that there are different atheistic philosophies? That there is no one philosophy of atheism? You should read to understand not just regurgitate for argument sake.

So, you know now there are different philosophies of atheism and you're still arguing. You don't even understand what atheism is all about.

So, if I say the philosophy of sports, it means I don't know that sports are diverse and there are different philosophies of sports. Even in football, which is just one sport, coaches adopt different philosophies to train their players and set up their formation (while some are attack-minded, others are defensive, and others try to strike a balance between the two).

I also mentioned philosophy of religion, does that also apply to a single religion when each religion has different philosophies? Under philosophy of science, some people study philosophy of chemistry, philosophy of mathematics, etc.

You're merely arguing about a clear issue that needs no debate to defend your atheistic dogma.

ThinkFreely:
Still the same stories without evidence

Going by your theory your belief in evolution will not hold. Scientists believe the universe came about by the BIG BANG THEORY.

When asked how those energy that created the universe where formed before the Big Bang, science doesn't have any conclusive answers. It simply believes those elements SOMEHOW where there leading to the Big Bang. PS: both Big Bang and evolution are both called THEORIES and not FACTS because it cannot be proven beyond reasonable doubt. Still an element of FAITH is required to believe it happened that way!

Now to God existence without creation. I once had a discussion with a friend who wanted to know God's origin. He owns a pet dog. I asked him if his dog was intelligent, he said yes! I asked him if his dog could obey simple and some complex commands, he said yes! I asked him, if his son and his dog were trained from infancy in the same things, like they were both going to school who would come out tops? Who would graduate to become a lawyer, doctor, engineer etc? He said his son! I asked him why, he said because his son has higher reasoning capacity than a dog! And he was right!

Truth is no matter how smart an animal is, explaining complex things that humans can easily understand will be difficult for an animal to grasp. An animal can never grasp how to build an airplane or a computer program no matter how intelligent it is or how hard you try to explain it. Of cause they are intelligent in their own way but all animals have a limit to their intelligence even man!
To God we are like that dog or any other animal. Even if he tried to explain his origin we will never fully understand it, because human knowledge is limited by what he or she can experience( it is limited to the physical universe of which we still don't fully understand).

God is a higher being that transcends both the physical and spiritual universe, God doesn't need to explain in details His origin, instead He says in the Bible "He has no beginning and ending".

LordReed:


Your sarcasm is irrelevant, you made it up and we both know it.

Argue for KNOWLEDGE SAKE and not for ARGUMENT SAKE. no one knows everything, we learn from each other

kingxsamz:


You came here, using logic to butress your point and at the end, you failed to do justice to that same logic.
If you claim that a complex being (which no one can prove exists) created the universe, then you must apply that same logic that this complex being was also created.
It's one thing to believe that there's a higher intelligence. It's also another thing to know what this higher being wants...
It'd be foolish to just believe that there's a God who wants to punish people for everlasting if they don't fulfill his will. How did you know? Because a 2000 year old book said so?
Same way you can have faith that there's a God, is the same way one can have faith that Zeus created the universe...

If you agree that there's a higher intelligence that created us, then you must also agree that that same higher intelligence was also created by another higher being. If not, there's no need continuing this conversation.
Till you have proof, the belief in God remains dumb.

The creator is beyond human understanding. For instance, science has shown that there are some colours some animals like eagles, cats, can see, but the human eyes can not interpret those colors. Can we now deny the existence of such colors just because our eyes cannot see them?

God's attribute and human understanding is similar to that. As far as the heavens us above the earth, so is God's superiority to man. God is I Am that I Am. He is self existing. He is timeless and ageless. Our human brain , with the way we understand time, and cause and effect finds it to comprehend this.

But we see His works, which we cannot deny.

Plead:

You’re dumb.
All religions in the world are formed around a supreme being,therefore saying that religion is a scam means the supreme being concept is a scam and doesn’t exist.

If you weren’t religious you wouldn’t believe in God in the first place.

The Term GOD could mean different thing to different people.

To me God is everything. Everything is God.
To some God is Jesus Christ, to some it is Allah. To some it is Buda etc.

gensteejay:

So, you know now there are different philosophies of atheism and you're still arguing. You don't even understand what atheism is all about.

So, if I say the philosophy of sports, it means I don't know that sports are diverse and there are different philosophies of sports. Even in football, which is just one sport, coaches adopt different philosophies to train their players and set up their formation (while some are attack-minded, others are defensive, and others try to strike a balance between the two).

I also mentioned philosophy of religion, does that also apply to a single religion when each religion has different philosophies? Under philosophy of science, some people study philosophy of chemistry, philosophy of mathematics, etc.

You're merely arguing about a clear issue that needs no debate to defend your atheistic dogma.

It is you who knows nothing of atheism. You constantly formulate strawman arguments and deflections to support whatever imaginary thing you think of. Its a clear question show me a source for PHILOSOPHY OF ATHEISM because that is not how anybody phrases it but because you have created this strawman you need to defeat you coined the term philosophy of atheism. Go read up the atheistic philosophies and stop creating strawman arguments.

onlyfacts:


Argue for KNOWLEDGE SAKE and not for ARGUMENT SAKE. no one knows everything, we learn from each other

I don;t argue for argument sake which is why terms need to be clear. When I asked him for a source for PHILOSOPHY OF ATHEISM it was a sign to show I need clarification. I don't ask questions of what I know.