A Thread For The Mental Emancipation Of Indoctrinated Religious Adherents - Christianity Etc (9) - Nairaland
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| Re: A Thread For The Mental Emancipation Of Indoctrinated Religious Adherents by sonmvayina(m): 11:40am On May 25, 2020 |
shadeyinka:It is the personification of this spirit that religionists term God.. They give the spirit human attributes to pass a message that we are part of it and he is part of us.. Since one attribute of this spirit is omnipresent |
| Re: A Thread For The Mental Emancipation Of Indoctrinated Religious Adherents by shadeyinka(m): 1:02pm On May 25, 2020 |
sonmvayina:Interestingly, it is humans who are given limited attributes of God. Gen 1:26: "And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth." It is not strange that the AI robot Sophia was made with synthetic rubber, steel, plastics and silicon but in the image of man and with capabilities that only man can have. |
| Re: A Thread For The Mental Emancipation Of Indoctrinated Religious Adherents by IamMichael(op): 2:08pm On May 25, 2020 |
I collapsed that last post on this thread by @Shadeyinka. Don't want any imaginary nonsense here please. You have failed to prove your case when given the chance, best to leave it at that! The book i was writing has really affected this thread, but i will be back to spit it back in the abundance... This thread is for the ages, and I will make it so. Regards!! |
| Re: A Thread For The Mental Emancipation Of Indoctrinated Religious Adherents by IamMichael(op): 2:12pm On May 25, 2020 |
sonmvayina:The person you quoted is a religionist! |
| Re: A Thread For The Mental Emancipation Of Indoctrinated Religious Adherents by sonmvayina(m): 10:38am On May 26, 2020 |
shadeyinka:All the gods of heaven and all on Earth lie within us.. That is the essense of this thread,to make you realise that the God you are clamoring for is with you..not outside of you.. Wisdom and understanding is the greatest gift anyone can possess.. Yours is just ignorance and stupidity..no insult intended . |
| Re: A Thread For The Mental Emancipation Of Indoctrinated Religious Adherents by sonmvayina(m): 10:39am On May 26, 2020 |
IamMichael:Send me the first copy out of the press when you are done...thanks. |
| Re: A Thread For The Mental Emancipation Of Indoctrinated Religious Adherents by IamMichael(op): 10:46am On May 26, 2020 |
sonmvayina:Alright. It's a Sci-Fi novel though! |
| Re: A Thread For The Mental Emancipation Of Indoctrinated Religious Adherents by shadeyinka(m): 11:12am On May 26, 2020 |
sonmvayina:I understand you..just like Sophia created itself and is now fully human! |
| Re: A Thread For The Mental Emancipation Of Indoctrinated Religious Adherents by sonmvayina(m): 11:39am On May 26, 2020 |
IamMichael:The more reason..I have I'll read it.. |
| Re: A Thread For The Mental Emancipation Of Indoctrinated Religious Adherents by sonmvayina(m): 11:55am On May 26, 2020 |
IamMichael:You are falling into problem because either by ommission or commission you are delebrately separating yourself from God...is it not easier for you to say..God is existence itself....you are making it sound like here and there.. |
| Re: A Thread For The Mental Emancipation Of Indoctrinated Religious Adherents by IamMichael(op): 12:07pm On May 26, 2020 |
sonmvayina:When you pronounce God, do you pronounce it with capital "G"? Here is how the word came to be associated with capital "G" in writing. The development of English orthography was dominated by Christian texts. Capitalized, "God" was first used to refer to the Judeo-Christian concept and may now signify any monotheistic conception of God, including the translations of the Arabic Allāh, Persian Khuda, Indic Ishvara and the Maasai Ngai. |
| Re: A Thread For The Mental Emancipation Of Indoctrinated Religious Adherents by sonmvayina(m): 12:12pm On May 26, 2020 |
shadeyinka:Even the Bible you so much Revere warned people of trusting in personal experiences..it is not a proof of anything...how do you decide which experience is from God or not.... Deuteronomy 13.. |
| Re: A Thread For The Mental Emancipation Of Indoctrinated Religious Adherents by IamMichael(op): 4:37pm On May 26, 2020 |
One man's magic is another man's reality. The telephone was magic before 1876. |
| Re: A Thread For The Mental Emancipation Of Indoctrinated Religious Adherents by IamMichael(op): 4:40pm On May 26, 2020 |
"People who don't listen with the intent to understand, listen with the intent to reply." |
| Re: A Thread For The Mental Emancipation Of Indoctrinated Religious Adherents by IamMichael(op): 8:27am On May 30, 2020 |
Before you subscribe to any belief system, you should always take it upon yourself to verify it rather than rely on the experience of others. Experiences are subjective, even if experienced in groups. A belief is a strong conviction that something is true of something. Don't assume something to be true just because it sounds good. Everything about a belief is verifiable, and there are always simple ways of verifying your beliefs, and i don't just mean religious beliefs alone. The only true belief's are the ones that cannot be refuted. If a belief being paraded as truth is refuted with verifiable facts, then it is senseless still trying to hold on to it. It's now about your ego rather than the subject of belief. Here is an excerpt that you should really take your time to read and digest. There is nothing wrong in admitting that you don't know for certain. There is nothing wrong in accepting that you may be wrong. You cannot grow as a person if you don't step out of your comfort zone and verify things for yourself. Enjoy. HOW DO I KNOW MY BELIEFS ARE TRUE? This was the subject i had in mind to discuss today, but it appears someone else beat me to it. So instead of repeating it, I'm just deferring to it as it is comprehensively well laid and written. Do not read to argue, read to understand. I had to stress on this topic because of the moniker @whitestar who seem to be really conflicted about the word "Freethinking" and the moniker @shadeyinka who is always confusing himself with the Uncreated First Cause ridiculous absurdity. I will also open a thread for it for wider audience. |
| Re: A Thread For The Mental Emancipation Of Indoctrinated Religious Adherents by shadeyinka(m): 11:46am On May 30, 2020 |
IamMichael:Can you please apply what you have preached here to this dogma 1. Because God cannot be experimentally verified, therefore He doesn't exist! Is this a FACT or a BELIEF? |
| Re: A Thread For The Mental Emancipation Of Indoctrinated Religious Adherents by IamMichael(op): 1:38pm On May 30, 2020 |
shadeyinka:You are always in a hurry to argue illogical conclusions. Just slow down for once and think, try to conceptualise. Don't always be in a hurry to show you know. Before you pose a question, at least try and first consider if the question you are asking have been asked properly, so that you elicit proper reply. What god are you talking about? Is it Zeus, Ogun, Allah, Yahweh, Amadioha? |
| Re: A Thread For The Mental Emancipation Of Indoctrinated Religious Adherents by shadeyinka(m): 1:57pm On May 30, 2020 |
IamMichael:See escapism in full blare! I speak about the "Creator God/ gods" Now answer the question Can you please apply what you have preached here to this dogma Because God cannot be experimentally verified, therefore He doesn't exist! Is this a FACT or a BELIEF? |
| Re: A Thread For The Mental Emancipation Of Indoctrinated Religious Adherents by IamMichael(op): 2:16pm On May 30, 2020 |
shadeyinka:You are not listening. When you say you speak about the creator God/gods, you have not said anything because already you have made a conclusion about a non-existent thing as existing. The only thing you succeeded in doing is asking an open ended ambiguous and vague question. Be specific and coin the question using a specific name. When you use a specific name, you get a specific answer. I hope that's more clearer for you now!
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| Re: A Thread For The Mental Emancipation Of Indoctrinated Religious Adherents by IamMichael(op): 12:41pm On Jun 01, 2020 |
He has run away... ![]() |
| Re: A Thread For The Mental Emancipation Of Indoctrinated Religious Adherents by IamMichael(op): 1:08pm On Jun 01, 2020 |
The religious statistics that should get you worried: Christians are estimated to be 2.3billion worldwide while the rest make up the remaining 5billion+ who are not christians. If as they say, majority carries the vote, christians are already in the minority. Who is wrong, who is right? Of the remaining 5billion+, Islam is estimated to have 1.8billion people. Hinduism has an estimated 1.1billion of the remaining 3.2billion population. Budhism has an estimated 535million of the remaining 3.2billion population. The rest are affiliated to other forms of worship system and then the Freethinkers(atheists, nontheists, humanists, etc)... If this number doesn't fear you as a non-religious person, I doubt there is anything else more frightening for the hope of humanity. We are surrounded by billions of people who believe in fairy tales. This billions of people will go ahead to give birth to more billions of people who they will go on to force to believe in the same fairy tales. We are finished. Can we win this fight to get all to start reasoning logically? |
| Re: A Thread For The Mental Emancipation Of Indoctrinated Religious Adherents by gsegun43: 8:55pm On Jun 01, 2020 |
@iammichael You seem to be giving up, but what you forgot is that you were born religious as many of us, but we got to know better at a particular point in life. The only thing you are not seeing is the rate at which people are leaving religion. I can bet you that religion will soon become thing of the past. |
| Re: A Thread For The Mental Emancipation Of Indoctrinated Religious Adherents by IamMichael(op): 9:13pm On Jun 01, 2020 |
gsegun43:I'm really very grateful for this your encouraging words. Thank you! |
| Re: A Thread For The Mental Emancipation Of Indoctrinated Religious Adherents by IamMichael(op): 9:15pm On Jun 01, 2020 |
For what reason does science deny witchcraft, sorcery and black magic, if it is something that they did not even verify? They are energies that break the laws of physics and can never be measured.
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| Re: A Thread For The Mental Emancipation Of Indoctrinated Religious Adherents by IamMichael(op): 9:20pm On Jun 01, 2020 |
gsegun43:You are also welcome to add/contribute in any way you can. |
| Re: A Thread For The Mental Emancipation Of Indoctrinated Religious Adherents by gsegun43: 10:18pm On Jun 01, 2020 |
IamMichael:uwc |
| Re: A Thread For The Mental Emancipation Of Indoctrinated Religious Adherents by donjazet(m): 11:18pm On Jun 01, 2020 |
Nice thread O.P. Micheal, you are a brilliant writer. I have found your arguments quite insightful, consistent and illuminating. Kudos. |
| Re: A Thread For The Mental Emancipation Of Indoctrinated Religious Adherents by IamMichael(op): 11:02am On Jun 02, 2020 |
donjazet:Wow! Thank you a lot bro. I'm really grateful you found it helpful. |
| Re: A Thread For The Mental Emancipation Of Indoctrinated Religious Adherents by donjazet(m): 11:19am On Jun 02, 2020 |
IamMichael:Believe you me, you are helping a lot more nairalanders than you know. More grease to your elbows. |
| Re: A Thread For The Mental Emancipation Of Indoctrinated Religious Adherents by IamMichael(op): 11:23am On Jun 02, 2020 |
donjazet:Thank you bro. I will continue to do my best. ![]() |
| Re: A Thread For The Mental Emancipation Of Indoctrinated Religious Adherents by IamMichael(op): 12:21pm On Jun 02, 2020 |
In the early hours of today, at around 12:11am, a neighbor and his household started midnight prayers. I was recording it, despite the fact they lived in another house. It was very clear from my end, and i don't even want to imagine the noise it was causing the persons in same compound with him. At a point, i quit recording cuz i wanted to engage in some other gainful stuff online. However, the prayer points the leader of the midnight prayer (the husband) raised really got me thinking hard. For emphasis, here are some of them: - Jesus Christ take control of our life - God destroy all the people holding our life - God destroy our enemies - God energize our spirit - Jesus Christ do not allow the enemies see us, and if they do, destroy them. - God forgive us our sins - God speak into our lives as a family. - God we have come before you, do not forsake us. - God whatever the enemy did that is stopping our family from going forward, destroy it. The prayers were too much, i had to plug an earpiece and start watching movies till i fell asleep. ****** I was left wondering. I mean, if someone can dedicate all this time to pray, it shouldn't be hard to also do some personal retrospection or hard thinking about one's life to actually try and know where one got it wrong to begin with. - For someone asking God to energise them, they were awake by 12am, shouting and praying very hard. A time that should have been given to sleep, to nourish an exhausted body and be refreshed. But, they dedicated it to prayer instead. And they do this regularly. - This people have succeeded in wrongfully believing that there is an enemy out there who is controlling their lives. They therefore have technically absolved themselves of responsibility for their actions. They have found the perfect person to blame for all their predicaments. - Then, they have found a helper too. In their mind, after being fed all the beliefs about an all-powerful god, they have now believed the god will fight for them. All they need do is wake up at midnight (the long held superstition as the best hour to destroy demons and evil spirits) and call on the god's name. This god will then go and destroy the enemy. They will continue this prayer till this year ends, will still continue it to the next because it never ends obviously. - They also tell their god to speak into their lives. You would think that this has been sufficiently done in the bible they subscribe to. But this is like a permanent prayer too. It never ends. For this people, all their problems and solutions in life are the unseen enemy and the all-powerful god who fights on their behalf. Yet, the next day, they are the ones who will wake up and actually face their problems in 3D, staring them in the face. Everything is still as it is, and they will wave it off as the will of their god. This people have been made to believe that they don't have a choice, yet everything in our life is our choice. The things we got no choice in have already been decided by evolution and nature. We had no choice in our birth, in our gender, in the family, tribe or religion. We have no choice in how nature operates and does its things. But, we have the choice to decide what to make of our life from the moment we are born(and I'm not even talking about people nature robbed with disabilities). The day you decide to give away your ability to choose and take responsibility for your acts, that's the day you are finished... and that's the day religious beliefs will sprout roots in your life with thick branches and heavy stems. |
| Re: A Thread For The Mental Emancipation Of Indoctrinated Religious Adherents by IamMichael(op): 11:28am On Jun 03, 2020 |
Trauma from Leaving Religion RELIGIOUS TRAUMA SYNDROME Article 3 of 3 by Dr Marlene Winell Understanding Religious Trauma Syndrome: Trauma from Leaving Religion Religious Trauma Syndrome (RTS) is a function of both the chronic abuses of harmful religion and the impact of severing one’s connection with one’s faith and faith community. It can be compared to a combination of PTSD and Complex PTSD (C-PTSD). In the last article of this series, I explained some of the toxic aspects of authoritarian religions that cause long-term psychological damage (Bible-based ones in particular). In this writing, I will address the trauma of breaking away from this kind of religion. With PTSD, a traumatic event is one in which a person experiences or witnesses actual or threatened death or serious injury, or a threat to the physical integrity of self or others. Losing one’s faith, or leaving one’s religion, is an analogous event because it essentially means the death of one’s previous life – the end of reality as it was understood. It is a huge shock to the system, and one that needs to be recognized as trauma. What it means to leave: Breaking out of a restrictive, mind-controlling religion is understandably a liberating experience. People report huge relief and some excitement about their new possibilities. Certain problems are over, such as trying to twist one’s thinking to believe irrational religious doctrines, handling enormous cognitive dissonance in order to get by in the ‘real world’ as well, and conforming to repressive codes of behavior. Finally leaving a restrictive religion can be a major personal accomplishment after trying to [b]make it work and going through many cycles of guilt and confusion. However, the challenges of leaving are daunting. For most people, the religious environment was a one-stop-shop for meeting all their major needs – social support, a coherent worldview, meaning and direction in life, structured activities, and emotional/spiritual satisfaction. Leaving the fold means multiple losses, including the loss of friends and family support at a crucial time of personal transition. Consequently, it is a very lonely ‘stressful life event’ – more so than others described on Axis IV in the DSM. [/b]For some people, depending on their personality and the details of their religious past, it may be possible to simply stop participating in religious services and activities and move on with life. But for many, leaving their religion means debilitating anxiety, depression, grief, and anger. Usually people begin with intellectually letting go of their religious beliefs and then struggle with the emotional aspects. The cognitive part is difficult enough and often requires a period of study and struggle before giving up one’s familiar and perhaps cherished worldview. But the emotional letting go is much more difficult since the beliefs are bound with deep-seated needs and fears, and usually inculcated at a young age. Problems with self-worth and fear of terrible punishment continue. Virtually all controlling religions teach fear about the evil in ‘the world’ and the danger of being alone without the group. Ordinary setbacks can cause panic attacks, especially when one feels like a small child in a very foreign world. [/i]Coming out of a sheltered, repressed environment can result in a lack of coping skills and personal maturity. The phobia indoctrination makes it difficult to avoid the stabbing thought, even many years after leaving, that one has made a terrible mistake, thinking ‘what if they’re right?’ It is truly amazing the pain I went through due to what was inputted into my mind… All I know is it took such a toll on me that I did not care if I died and went to hell to escape the hell I was in and the immense fear it put into my life. Depression, anxiety, fatigue, insomnia, etc... you name it. It sucks. Probably from years of guilt being a Christian and a sinner, and thinking people I love are in hell. Making the break is for many the most disruptive, difficult upheaval they have ever gone through in life. To understand this fully, one must appreciate the totality of a religious worldview that defines and controls reality in the way that fundamentalist groups do. Everything about the world - past, present, and future – is explained, the meaning of life is laid out, morality is already decided, and individuals must find their place in the cosmic scheme in order to be worthwhile. The promises for conformity and obedience are great and the threats for disobedience are dire, both for the present life and the hereafter. Controlling religions tend to limit information about the world and alternative views so members easily conclude that their religious worldview is the only one possible. Anything outside of their world is considered dangerous and evil at worst and terribly misguided at best. So leaving this sheltered environment is bursting a bubble. Everything a person has believed to be true is shattered. My foundation has truly dropped out from under me. Despite being told I am courageous, tenacious, and this is rugged work, I consistently find wave after wave of grief that overwhelms me. I can hardly believe how upended it has made my life. My whole sense of purpose, value, and meaning was wrapped tightly around my Christian faith...I kept my doubts buried and crucified, and I tried hard not to think about the troubling things of faith...A year ago, I abandoned evangelicalism...the pain I feel is deep and raw. The impact can create problems with day-to-day functioning. The amount of inner turmoil during this time was overwhelming. It affected my daily life and many days I didn’t want to get out of bed. I was depressed and anxious at the same time. Being in college was difficult. I could hardly focus on class. I am utterly confused and at the moment my whole life is ruined as I don't know what to think. I've been off work a month with anxiety. I have - for about three years - been dependent on drinking alcohol every night for a very long time. Shattered assumption framework In the study of trauma, certain developments are highly relevant to understanding RTS. One is the shattered assumption framework, or ‘loss of the assumptive world’ (Kauffman, 2002). It has been used to understand traumatic loss such as death of a loved one, but can easily be applied to loss of faith. According to Beder (2004), ‘The assumptive world concept refers to the assumptions or beliefs that ground, secure, stabilize, and orient people. They are our core beliefs. In the face of death and trauma, these beliefs are shattered and disorientation and even panic can enter the lives of those affected.’ The most damaging traumas are those that are human-caused and involve interpersonal violence and violation (DePrince and Freyd, 2002). (In my opinion, this would describe indoctrinating children in fear-based religion.) This approach names three basic assumptions held about the world that are shattered with these traumas: the world is benevolent, the world is meaningful, and the self is worthy (Janoff-Bulman, 1992). A fourth is sometimes included which says that others are trustworthy (Roth and Newman, 1991). This model applies well to religion if one thinks of the ‘world’ as that created and maintained by the religious group. The religious version of ‘self is worthy’ is usually a paradoxical view of the self which is both sinful and special. That is, an individual has nothing intrinsic to be proud of but can have great purpose, and can play a role in a cosmic, spiritual drama. These researchers explored the way schemas and other cognitive factors lead to humans’ cognitive conservatism and resistance to changing basic assumptions. Another line of research indicates negative responses in the brain when a person is confronted with information that conflicts with strongly-held beliefs (Shermer, 2011). Traumatic experiences shatter basic assumptions and beliefs. Conversely, a shattering of beliefs is traumatic. Coping and healing from trauma requires an individual to reconcile their old set of assumptions with new, modified assumptions (DePrince & Freyd, 2002). The trauma is understood to have both affective and cognitive components. Loss of faith or leaving one’s religion viewed through this lens helps to explain the intensity of the trauma. A religion contains a large and complex set of assumptions held to be true by the group. Rejecting the ‘meme complex’ that has been passed on through generations is a major cognitive disruption as well as a risk of social rejection. Panic about being helpless in a meaningless world can result. Never have I experienced such confusion, pain, grief, loss fear, anxiety, depression, paralysis. All because of religion, faith, God. It is noteworthy that all of the most controlling, authoritarian religions make sweeping, ultimate promises along with demands for devotion. Individuals who were most sincere, devout, and dedicated seem to be the ones most traumatized when their religious assumptive world crumbles. This would make sense from Kauffman’s (2002) perspective that shattered assumptions cause the self to fragment into pieces. As he puts it, ‘The assumptive world order is the set of illusions that shelter the human soul.’ Some days are better than others of course but most days are blighted by some form of dark cloud. The real tragedy for me is that I love life - in all of its hues, shades, problems and challenges - I just can't see life through a prescribed formula any more. [i] I feel in total crisis, panicked, and terrified of facing a future alone. No confidence in my own decision making if it isn’t in line with Christianity, and inability to find fulfillment from within. For many people who leave their faith, it is like a death or divorce. Their ‘relationship’ with God was a central assumption, such that giving it up feels like a genuine loss to be grieved. It can be like losing a lover, a parent, or best friend who has always been there. It is like a death in the family as my god Jesus finally died and no amount of belief could resurrect him. It is an absolutely dreadful and pull-rightening experience and dark night of the soul. When I left, it felt like I was losing a friend or even a spouse - was definitely ‘traumatic’. Now, as an outsider, I see how crazy-making and damaging it was to me. |
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