₦airaland Forum

4Play:
No, the stock market broadly is pricing in future economic fundamentals. The stock market doesn't wait for the economy to completely recover before rising. It rises in anticipation of economic recovery.

There are some "mispricing" here and there as we have seen quite a huge influx of retail investors for a variety of reasons including US investors who due to lockdowns are dabbling in the stock market. But in general, I think the stock market is doing what it usually does - reflect the net present value of future earnings.

Future economic fundamentals?

Of what ?

Some of those companies have rotten fundamentals
Like very rotten


FEDS buying their junk bonds is testament to that.

If the fundamental of a company is rotten .

The health of the economy makes no difference

Some traded companies are alright
But many others are not.


Time will tell
And we go see am.

skarz:
so i have an issue with my robinhood
i had 100dollars in my account, i traded and it entered 118 in a day all of a sudden my money dropped to 100dollars when market was closed
then i made little losses it dropped to 94 i traded again i made profit to 105 just for me to wake up to see my stock drop to 84.
i didn’t see anything wrong at first cause i felt maybe it’s because of the time zone
now i made my money from 84 to 106 last night only for me to see my stock drop to 97 dollars again
any reason why this is happening? does this happen only on robinhood?

The market never sleeps. There is premarket and after hours trading currently going on which is why prices are changing. Robinhood however doesn’t offer after hours or premarket trading I’m not sure.

ebuka1997:
Honestly speaking I think Nigeria doesn’t have a functional market. A company can release good results, the stock price doesn’t reflect changes to the company and the liquidity is non existent. If it comes to comparing with the Us market, the liquidity in a small penny stock can be more than three times the volume of the whole Nigerian exchange in a day.

Fundamental are still tied to the Nigerian market
Because we dont have the feds to distort the markets

In the US on the other hand

Stock buybacks plus fed intervention and crazy valuation models are in the way.

As for liquidity
Yes the USA is more liquid.

But when you have solid companies in your portfolio here in Nigeria, you are sure of constant returns (dividend plus capital appreciation)


I'll still be observing sha
Maybe I'll just open an account
And be buying ETFs

DexterousOne:
This one is different


I wont say more than that sha


But for me

No cent of mine will be going to the NYSE
At least till the end of next year


The FED experiment will have serious consequences

Propping up zombie companies dont change the fact that they are zombie companies

Okay, I see you’re going the Buffett route. You must be more of a value investor. That approach is time tested and proven. However, these are strange times and an investor has to be agile, sitting on cash like Buffett has an opportunity cost, rates are low.. the interest rates are nearing negative rates and the Fed has signaled an intention to even utilize negative rates if necessary like the Bank of Japan. What then does one do with cash to tackle inflation?

ebuka1997:
Okay, I see you’re going the Buffett route. You must be more of a value investor. That approach is time tested and proven. However, these are strange times and an investor has to be agile, sitting on cash like Buffett has an opportunity cost, rates are low.. the interest rates are nearing negative rates and the Fed has signaled an intention to even utilize negative rates if necessary like the Bank of Japan. What then does one do with cash to tackle inflation?

Indeed

I'm not much of an arbitrage person

It's not my thing

These times are good for arbitrage bounty hunters sha

Not for folks like me

DexterousOne:
Fundamental are still tied to the Nigerian market
Because we dont have the feds to distort the markets

In the US on the other hand

Stock buybacks plus fed intervention and crazy valuation models are in the way.

As for liquidity
Yes the USA is more liquid.

But when you have solid companies in your portfolio here in Nigeria, you are sure of constant returns (dividend plus capital appreciation)


I'll still be observing sha
Maybe I'll just open an account
And be buying ETFs

Bro quickly open an account I beg you. They’re more sure companies than the Nigerian stock exchange. Is it Zenith bank or what. They’re banks with healthy dividend yields too. Bmo Harris has successfully paid dividends for more than 30 years. They’re companies you can put your money in and over the last 5 years you’re money still remains intact. Apple, Facebook and multiple blue chips, the only way one gets burned is investing in penny stocks. Can the same be said about the comatose Nigerian exchange where stock prices never reach all time highs again.

Hello Gurus in the house, please what is the direction of trading for today abeg....recommended stocks

@YerYer, Oalpearl, ebuka1997 and other silent gurus

ebuka1997:
Bro quickly open an account I beg you. They’re more sure companies than the Nigerian stock exchange. Is it Zenith bank or what. They’re banks with healthy dividend yields too. Bmo Harris has successfully paid dividends for more than 30 years. They’re companies you can put your money in and over the last 5 years you’re money still remains intact. Apple, Facebook and multiple blue chips, the only way one gets burned is investing in penny stocks. Can the same be said about the comatose Nigerian exchange where stock prices never reach all time highs again.

He called the Nigerian market comatose


Which broker do you recommend?

Alaska90:
Hello Gurus in the house, please what is the direction of trading for today abeg....recommended stocks

@YerYer, Oalpearl, ebuka1997 and other silent gurus

Oil stocks are currently facing pullback, maybe because oil prices are now going down a little. It’s good to watch and see if there’s a good entry point tho. Watch the tickers Val, QEP Resources, Exxonmobil CPE and others

tommieen:
Hello Ukay,


Trove is a technology platform, not a registered broker-dealer or investment adviser.

Brokerage services are provided by the following:

US-traded securities, including fractional trading, are provided to Trove users by DriveWealth LLC, a regulated member of FINRA/SIPC. Drivewealth is a member of SIPC, which protects securities customers of its members up to $500,000 (including $250,000 for claims for cash). Explanatory brochure available upon request or at www.sipc.org.

Nigerian account traded securities are provided by Sigma Securities LTD and Trove is a technology platform, not a registered broker-dealer or investment adviser. Trove does not offer its own recommendations of any security or provide its own research to any user regarding any security transaction or order. Please note, investing involves risk and investments may lose value. Past performance does not guarantee future results.

Brokerage services are provided by the following:

US-traded securities, including fractional trading, are provided to Trove users by DriveWealth LLC, a regulated member of FINRA/SIPC. Drivewealth is a member of SIPC, which protects securities customers of its members up to $500,000 (including $250,000 for claims for cash). Explanatory brochure available upon request or at www.sipc.org.

Nigerian account traded securities are provided by Sigma Securities LTD & ARM Securities both SEC registered broker-dealer and members of the Nigerian Stock Exchange.

To answer the question about what happens if Trove goes under;

Well your assets are held by the clearing house who in this case are DriveWealth LLC. You have an account number written on your Trove statements. This can be accessed by visiting the settings section of your app.

Please Note : The section would be blank until you make a transaction. Even at that your history begins to show a couple of days after your first purchase.

You can use the account number and a proof of identity to claim ownership of your assets with DriveWealth and then figure whether to liquidate or transfer to some other brokerage. That decision in this case would be between you and DriveWealth.

We intend on being around for a long time though so i don't see that scenario happening in the foreseeable future.

For Nigerian assets, your assets are held with either of our partner brokers. They have both been around for north of 10 years so i'm sure you should be good there.

Here are some links to give you more insight into Trove ;

https://www.thisdaylive.com/index.php/2020/01/03/arm-announces-investment-in-trove-technologies/

http://www.nse.com.ng/mediacenter/pressreleases/Pages/winners-emerge-in-nse-inaugural-hackathon.aspx

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/drivewealth-partners-sigma-securities-trove-110000697.html

There are other resources and links on the internet you can search for too. A Google search should also get some extra links.

Also let me if i can help answer some of your questions. Happy to address any fears that you have.

@tommieen we’ll appreciate it if Trove can show us our returns on stocks owned to make it easy for one to keep track of one’s profit and loss. Like today’s return and total returns I’m sure you know what I mean not just on portfolio but individual stocks as well. Sorry I quote a post from way back looking forward to your response

DexterousOne:
He called the Nigerian market comatose


Which broker do you recommend?

Bro, Nigerian market really burned me. If I had been learning the Us market right from the start I would have been better off. There’s a time for Nigerian stocks however.

The broker you use depends on your location. Brokers like Robinhood, Fidelity don’t accept Nigerians but they’re Nigerian options like Trove, bamboo and the likes

Please has anyone used ARM Stocktrade to trade US stock?

ebuka1997:
The market never sleeps. There is premarket and after hours trading currently going on which is why prices are changing. Robinhood however doesn’t offer after hours or premarket trading I’m not sure.

they do, but it closes 12pm WAT

ebuka1997:
Oil stocks are currently facing pullback, maybe because oil prices are now going down a little. It’s good to watch and see if there’s a good entry point tho. Watch the tickers Val, QEP Resources, Exxonmobil CPE and others

Thanks

Hello anyone use chaka here? Do they show returns on stocks just as bamboo and is it okay to use?

CAUTION! CAUTION!! CAUTION!!!
Glad to see very healthy, informative and quality debate going on about the current euphoria in the market.
For the information and enlightenment of those who may not know, there is a term called "Pump and Dump". It is done by market makers engaged by companies to fake heavy trades and an attendant price spike in order to lure unsuspecting investors to invest. Their ultimate aim is to self off bad stocks and move on with their funds, leaving the uninformed with the empty "can". There can be no better time to do that except now that their is a frenzy in anticipation of economic and social activities resuming around the world. This whole exercise eventually causes a herd mentality that drives everybody into the market "investing" with reckless abandon.

This is the reason why bankrupt and dead businesses suddenly experience unimaginable price appreciation ranging from 20% to over 150% in a day.

People of God, this is the time to be cautious.
Be sure the companies you are investing in have sound fundamentals. They may not move too fast, but you are sure they will continue to be going concerns after this pandemic.

It is getting more dangerous as the euphoria continues to sweep stock prices upwards. The rise of the market is somewhat justified due to the beating businesses received and are coming back to productivity especially for genuine businesses that have continued to survive the hard economic times. Some businesses will still go bankrupt at the end of the pandemic as they have been dealt irrecoverable blows.
Don't get your fingers burnt, don't try catching a falling knife, don't join the bandwagon of people throwing their hard earned money at any stock because you saw it rising.
We want everyone safe and I mean financially secured and prospering even after this euphoria and beyond.
Apologies for the long epistle.
We just care.
Enjoy your bull ride by the way.

Iamsoulomon:
Hello anyone use chaka here? Do they show returns on stocks just as bamboo and is it okay to use?

@oakpearl any answer for this bro?

DexterousOne:
Future economic fundamentals?

Of what ?

Some of those companies have rotten fundamentals
Like very rotten


FEDS buying their junk bonds is testament to that.

If the fundamental of a company is rotten .

The health of the economy makes no difference

Some traded companies are alright
But many others are not.


Time will tell
And we go see am.

The broad market indices reflects the likelihood that the economy (both the US and global) will be in a much better place in 2 years time than it is today.

The economy did not suffer an endogenous shock, i.e., where internal factors like excess credit growth causes the economy to topple over. The economy suffered because of the coronavirus and will recover once the virus is under control.

Yes, there are companies with junk credit (there always are) but the Fed has bought relatively little junk credit and definitely no stocks.

Investors are looking at the long-term picture and asking: What would earnings for Microsoft, Apple, JP Morgan etc look like in 2 or 3 years? They are buying stocks accordingly.

Iamsoulomon:
@oakpearl any answer for this bro?

I use Trove predominantly, and Chaka occasionally.
I am not sure what you mean by returns on stocks but there are bar and pie charts showing a brief summary.
It is not very appealing for me and I consider their platform not user friendly enough as I would have wanted.
IMO

Thanks for this great write up bro.
But do you advise to buy these stocks that fall under “pump & dumb”, just to cash out quickly? Example CHK or NKLA?

OakPearl:
CAUTION! CAUTION!! CAUTION!!!
Glad to see very healthy, informative and quality debate going on about the current euphoria in the market.
For the information and enlightenment of those who may not know, there is a term called "Pump and Dump". It is done by market makers engaged by companies to fake heavy trades and an attendant price spike in order to lure unsuspecting investors to invest. Their ultimate aim is to self off bad stocks and move on with their funds, leaving the uninformed with the empty "can". There can be no better time to do that except now that their is a frenzy in anticipation of economic and social activities resuming around the world. This whole exercise eventually causes a herd mentality that drives everybody into the market "investing" with reckless abandon.

This is the reason why bankrupt and dead businesses suddenly experience unimaginable price appreciation ranging from 20% to over 150% in a day.

People of God, this is the time to be cautious.
Be sure the companies you are investing in have sound fundamentals. They may not move too fast, but you are sure they will continue to be going concerns after this pandemic.

It is getting more dangerous as the euphoria continues to sweep stock prices upwards. The rise of the market is somewhat justified due to the beating businesses received and are coming back to productivity especially for genuine businesses that have continued to survive the hard economic times. Some businesses will still go bankrupt at the end of the pandemic as they have been dealt irrecoverable blows.
Don't get your fingers burnt, don't try catching a falling knife, don't join the bandwagon of people throwing their hard earned money at any stock because you saw it rising.
We want everyone safe and I mean financially secured and prospering even after this euphoria and beyond.
Apologies for the long epistle.
We just care.
Enjoy your bull ride by the way.

jclassiq:
As a complete novice I put 50 dollars on AAL when it was already sky high hoping it would go higher. Just yesterday after some unimpressive e movements I've opted to sell and I'm looking for an oil stock to put it and cash out before Friday. As I'm seeing all these numbers on the energy stocks I'm very sad that I always find out when its already late. I've been reading o..but apparently I've been reading all the wrong things.

How can someone help me to recognize a breakout opportunity so I can grow my little capital? I need help pls.
Cc.
Yer yer
Oakpearl
Afroxyz
Dexterous one
Ebuka1997

All the gurus pls.

You sound like you intend to be a day trader.
You need to study about how to day trade and understand price movements and all before experimenting.
At the time you bought AAL, it had done several tens of percentage gains and it was totally the wrong time to enter.
If conventional stock behaviour is anything to go by, you bought just when a pull back set in and would have waited a bit more as price recovery is possible due to this euphoria.
I would recommend Trading For A Living by Alexander Elder and a conscious study about the market on investopedia.com to help your minsitry.
Good luck.

Skymoore1004:
Thanks for this great write up bro.
But do you advise to buy these stocks that fall under “pump & dumb”, just to cash out quickly? Example CHK or NKLA?

Without reference to any particular stock (as some might just be getting ready to collapse back), I would say why not if you can time their ascension.
The problem with such stocks is nobody gets to notice them until they have risen for all to see. When everyone is now looking at the same stock money flocks there. But how long is what makes it a risky game. For the not-too-greedy, they may be lucky to hop in and ride a few cents or even dollars and exit fast.
The problem with this is you may come to the market without a clear cut strategy other than looking for the next pump and its easier to become a victim. You may not know that you are literally at war with people around the world with more sophisticated programmes, algorithms and large LCD screens following these same stocks and successfully predicting the movement with their efficient data connections and strong market social network.
In the end na high risk, high reward.
So the choice is yours.

Great advise, thanks boss

OakPearl:
Without reference to any particular stock (as some might just be getting ready to collapse back), I would say why not if you can time their ascension.
The problem with such stocks is nobody gets to notice them until they have risen for all to see. When everyone is now looking at the same stock money flocks there. But how long is what makes it a risky game. For the not-too-greedy, they may be lucky to hop in and ride a few cents or even dollars and exit fast.
The problem with this is you may come to the market without a clear cut strategy other than looking for the next pump and its easier to become a victim. You may not know that you are literally at war with people around the world with more sophisticated programmes, algorithms and large LCD screens following these same stocks and successfully predicting the movement with their efficient data connections and strong market social network.
In the end na high risk, high reward.
So the choice is yours.

4Play:
The broad market indices reflects the likelihood that the economy (both the US and global) will be in a much better place in 2 years time than it is today.

The economy did not suffer an endogenous shock, i.e., where internal factors like excess credit growth causes the economy to topple over. The economy suffered because of the coronavirus and will recover once the virus is under control.

Yes, there are companies with junk credit (there always are) but the Fed has bought relatively little junk credit and definitely no stocks.

Investors are looking at the long-term picture and asking: What would earnings for Microsoft, Apple, JP Morgan etc look like in 2 or 3 years? They are buying stocks accordingly.

I get you

But I hope you get where I am coming from as well

jclassiq:
Hi. Thanks for this. Pls can you give me your email address? Thanks my name is Ernest , Lagos state.

Please use the DM facility on Nairaland homepage to email me.
I don chop Nairaland ban tire here.

Drenimarcus:
abeg any one with change he/she is not using? i need some lapo to invest Yer Yer,oakpearl,afroxyz

Sell part of your non-performing stock and fund this trade.
I just did yesterday.

Which stocks did you buy of recent please?

OakPearl:
Sell part of your non-performing stock and fund this trade.
I just did yesterday.

Market Live Update.
Dow futures down by 350 points.
Very likely to halt come back rise in the market.
Sometimes, these premarket updates dont get to affect some portfolios though.
We watch.

OakPearl:
CAUTION! CAUTION!! CAUTION!!!
Glad to see very healthy, informative and quality debate going on about the current euphoria in the market.
For the information and enlightenment of those who may not know, there is a term called "Pump and Dump". It is done by market makers engaged by companies to fake heavy trades and an attendant price spike in order to lure unsuspecting investors to invest. Their ultimate aim is to self off bad stocks and move on with their funds, leaving the uninformed with the empty "can". There can be no better time to do that except now that their is a frenzy in anticipation of economic and social activities resuming around the world. This whole exercise eventually causes a herd mentality that drives everybody into the market "investing" with reckless abandon.

This is the reason why bankrupt and dead businesses suddenly experience unimaginable price appreciation ranging from 20% to over 150% in a day.

People of God, this is the time to be cautious.
Be sure the companies you are investing in have sound fundamentals. They may not move too fast, but you are sure they will continue to be going concerns after this pandemic.

It is getting more dangerous as the euphoria continues to sweep stock prices upwards. The rise of the market is somewhat justified due to the beating businesses received and are coming back to productivity especially for genuine businesses that have continued to survive the hard economic times. Some businesses will still go bankrupt at the end of the pandemic as they have been dealt irrecoverable blows.
Don't get your fingers burnt, don't try catching a falling knife, don't join the bandwagon of people throwing their hard earned money at any stock because you saw it rising.
We want everyone safe and I mean financially secured and prospering even after this euphoria and beyond.
Apologies for the long epistle.
We just care.
Enjoy your bull ride by the way.

Someone gets my drift here
Thank God for that

OakPearl:
CAUTION! CAUTION!! CAUTION!!!
Glad to see very healthy, informative and quality debate going on about the current euphoria in the market.
For the information and enlightenment of those who may not know, there is a term called "Pump and Dump". It is done by market makers engaged by companies to fake heavy trades and an attendant price spike in order to lure unsuspecting investors to invest. Their ultimate aim is to self off bad stocks and move on with their funds, leaving the uninformed with the empty "can". There can be no better time to do that except now that their is a frenzy in anticipation of economic and social activities resuming around the world. This whole exercise eventually causes a herd mentality that drives everybody into the market "investing" with reckless abandon.

This is the reason why bankrupt and dead businesses suddenly experience unimaginable price appreciation ranging from 20% to over 150% in a day.

People of God, this is the time to be cautious.
Be sure the companies you are investing in have sound fundamentals. They may not move too fast, but you are sure they will continue to be going concerns after this pandemic.

It is getting more dangerous as the euphoria continues to sweep stock prices upwards. The rise of the market is somewhat justified due to the beating businesses received and are coming back to productivity especially for genuine businesses that have continued to survive the hard economic times. Some businesses will still go bankrupt at the end of the pandemic as they have been dealt irrecoverable blows.
Don't get your fingers burnt, don't try catching a falling knife, don't join the bandwagon of people throwing their hard earned money at any stock because you saw it rising.
We want everyone safe and I mean financially secured and prospering even after this euphoria and beyond.
Apologies for the long epistle.
We just care.
Enjoy your bull ride by the way.

That’s true Sir. It’s funny bankrupt companies like Hertz making 300% in a week. It’s profitable for those that can play the game tho

Skymoore1004:
Thanks for this great write up bro.
But do you advise to buy these stocks that fall under “pump & dumb”, just to cash out quickly? Example CHK or NKLA?

If you intend to find the next pump search for this on Twitter $IXEA and see what people are saying, follow some of the guys and learn what’s trending out there. Also follow @stantradingman he is a ‘pump and dump’ specialist

But be careful to get out when you see some gains as they’ll be profit taking and dips. Pump and dumps are essentially psychological games. I was lucky to make on GNUS DGLY and IXEA from hearing it on Twitter. I’m now interested in blue chip companies no much risk again, maybe once in a while lol.

DexterousOne:
I get you

But I hope you get where I am coming from as well

I know, the Feds actions can keep companies alive when they should have gone bust. Instead, you have zombie companies hoarding precious capital and market share as they continue to operate inefficiently and barely making money. A lot of the airlines come to mind as their long-term outlook remain dire.

It think the dysfunction/inefficiencies are identifiable on a selective basis to specific zombie companies and assets, but in general, we shouldn't be too pessimistic about the long-term economic health of the global economy or the US stock market.