IMAliyu:

Maybe simple wasn't the right word 'lazy' may had been more fitting.

I'm aware of most of this history.

The fact is majority of Muslims, just like any other people are good people that don't really want to harm anyone.
And a minority are usually the bad people and they will use any means they can to justify their actions and sometimes because of their conviction that they are the side of good can sometimes influence others.

A question is how do you differentiate the righteous scholars from the un-righteous ones?

The question is indeed a very important one, as the Prophet SAW was reported to have said, what he fears most for this ummah are the wicked scholars...

One most important factor is the fact that we have the best examples in the Prophet SAW, and thus, à scholar who follows the sunnah with a sound creed would most likely be righteous...

Al – Hasan Al-Basri-Allah have mercy on him- said:

“When a man sought knowledge, it would not be long before it could be seen in his humbleness, his sight, upon his tongue and his hands, in his prayer, in his speech and in his disinterest (zuhd) in worldly allurements. And a man would acquire a portion of knowledge and put it into practice, and it would be better for him than the world and all it contains-if he owned it he would give it in exchange for the hereafter.”
Ibn Al-Mubarak, Al-Zuhd wa Al-Raqa'iq Vol. 1 p. 156.




“The closer you come to the DEEN that much more you are supposed to become courteous, kind, generous, understanding and forgiving of others. That's what you are supposed to be.” Nouman Ali Khan

A red flag is when a group or a scholar is notorious for pronouncing others kaafir at every slightest opportunity.

tintingz:


This is the nonsense response of yours, you posted it in between my post.



Atleast you agree with the intolerance among Muslims.

Ha! Taiwo ti binu old age must have caused the mix-up

Oh you still want to be 'breaking bread' with those you denigrate their way of life and make a mockery of their revered figures on a daily basis?! That's a bit rich coming from you my friend...

sino:


.

Although I know your view does not necessarily represent the law of apostacy in Saudi, Pakistan, Malaysia etc where one will be killed for just leaving the religion.
However, judging from one of your analogy about Jews and non-Muslim that wish to embrace Islam. You Saud they should study the deen and be very sure before they embrace it. Let me ask you these sir

1. If a non-Muslim come to you that he wish to be a Muslim. Will you tell him that he should go and study Islam very well before accepting it, because once he join, he cannot leave. He will be killed if he attempt to leave.

2. Did you allow your children to study Islam very well, before imposing it on them? . If you don't have children now, will you force your children to pray at 10yrs (by beating them if they refuse?.

Xmuslim:


Although I know your view does not necessarily represent the law of apostacy in Saudi, Pakistan, Malaysia etc where one will be killed for just leaving the religion.
However, judging from one of your analogy about Jews and non-Muslim that wish to embrace Islam. You Saud they should study the deen and be very sure before they embrace it. Let me ask you these sir

1. If a non-Muslim come to you that he wish to be a Muslim. Will you tell him that he should go and study Islam very well before accepting it, because once he join, he cannot leave. He will be killed if he attempt to leave.

2. Did you allow your children to study Islam very well, before imposing it on them? . If you don't have children now, will you force your children to pray at 10yrs (by beating them if they refuse?.

I have quoted Saudi Jurists as well as traditional scholars of Islam...

1. The reasoning for a law with historical precedence has been established, except the non-Muslim has ulterior motives to join Islam, accepting a religion as a way of life should be based on strong convictions that it is the truth...Be that as it may, I have already established that Islam isn't forced on anyone, and as a former Muslim that you claim, you should know of the stories of the Prophets (Peace be upon them all). Even in the Qur'an Allah would command the Prophet (SAW) to only convey the message and not force them to accept the religion. Prophet Muhammed's (SAW) uncle was a kafir, and even though the Prophet (SAW) wanted him to accept Islam passionately, he didn't force him not even at his death bed! Prophet Nuh's son was a kafir, he didn't force him, he even prayed that he be saved...Prophet Lut's wife was also of the disbelievers, he didn't force her to accept the religion...You are not forced to become a Muslim or remain one.

2. Children upbringing is one of the crucial responsibility of a parent, and teaching them Islam is obligatory as this is the basis of distinguishing right from wrong in a Muslim family...There are rules and guidelines and as I have already pointed out to you above, Islam isn't forced on anyone, even children...Until a child reaches puberty, the child isn't responsible for his/her actions, as such the responsibility falls on the parent to guide them, and discipline them when necessary, they need to learn that there are consequences for their actions... Beating as a form of discipline in Islam has rules and regulation, first of all, it should be the last resort, and you do not hit the face, sensitive/private parts, leave a mark not to talk of bodily harm...From all indications, it is meant to be symbolic, to show displeasure...Of course people get angry and do the opposite, and this is sinful, but our best example is from the Prophet (SAW) and he was reported to never have beaten any child...

sino:


.

Well, I would like us to conclude here to avoid back and forth. We can agree to our disagreement anyway. But my concerns are:

1. One may think he's sure of something today, but may have a reason to doubt it tomorrow. One may embrace Islam today base on the available evidence, but the evidence may become void tommorow. In this way, we should not hold him back. But unfortunately, Islam doesn't give such room.

I was once very convinced about Islam and I even encouraged friends and family to practice sunni form of Islam to avoid eternal hell. However, as I grow older, new knowledge and exposure to the loop holes in the Qur'an and hadith lead me out of the religion.


2. Regarding the children, Islam want us to beat a 10yrs old child if he refuse to offer solat. I don't see this as a good thing. I think it's enforcement of the religion to the child. If such child grow up with that indoctrination and one day realised the false in the religion, the law in the Islamic country does not permit him to renounce the faith (which was forced on his throat while young).

I don't want to write much, but I see no freedom in forcing religion on the kids that are innocent

Xmuslim:


Well, I would like us to conclude here to avoid back and forth. We can agree to our disagreement anyway. But my concerns are:

1. One may think he's sure of something today, but may have a reason to doubt it tomorrow. One may embrace Islam today base on the available evidence, but the evidence may become void tommorow. In this way, we should not hold him back. But unfortunately, Islam doesn't give such room.

I was once very convinced about Islam and I even encouraged friends and family to practice sunni form of Islam to avoid eternal hell. However, as I grow older, new knowledge and exposure to the loop holes in the Qur'an and hadith lead me out of the religion.


2. Regarding the children, Islam want us to beat a 10yrs old child if he refuse to offer solat. I don't see this as a good thing. I think it's enforcement of the religion to the child. If such child grow up with that indoctrination and one day realised the false in the religion, the law in the Islamic country does not permit him to renounce the faith (which was forced on his throat while young).

I don't want to write much, but I see no freedom in forcing religion on the kids that are innocent

To agree to disagree? Of course, I can't force you to change the way you choose and want to see things, mine is to just convey the facts about my religion, Islam!

The following Qur'an verses addresses this:

"He who obeys the Messenger has obeyed Allah ; but those who turn away - We have not sent you over them as a guardian." (Qur'an 4:80)

"And they say, "[We pledge] obedience." But when they leave you, a group of them spend the night determining to do other than what you say. But Allah records what they plan by night. So leave them alone and rely upon Allah . And sufficient is Allah as Disposer of affairs." (Qur'an 4:81)


" We are most knowing of what they say, and you are not over them a tyrant. But remind by the Qur'an whoever fears My threat."(Qur'an 50:45)

" And whether We show you part of what We promise them or take you in death, upon you is only the [duty of] notification, and upon Us is the account." (Qur'an 13:40)

" Indeed, We sent down to you the Book for the people in truth. So whoever is guided - it is for [the benefit of] his soul; and whoever goes astray only goes astray to its detriment. And you are not a manager over them." (Qur'an 39:41)

Whenever I see someone who claims to have been a Muslim and now has lost his faith, the below narration comes to my mind...

It is reported on the authority of Anas that the Prophet of Allah (may peace and blessings be upon him ) said:

"There are three qualities for which anyone who is characterised by them will relish the sweetness of faith: he to whom Allah and His Messenger are dearer than all else; he who loves a man for Allah's sake alone; and he who has as great an abhorrence of returning to unbelief after Allah has rescued him from it as he has of being cast into Hell." (Muslim)

Come to think of it, personally, I haven't come across a non believer who revert to Islam after research and studying, then later leave the religion and afterwards, starts denigrating or condemning the religion...

Anyway, as enshrined in Islam, "to you your 'religion' and to me my religion." (Qur'an 109:6)

Many thanks.