₦airaland Forum

shadeyinka:
Why disturbing others with the inventions and language of your enslavers!?

At least the English and inventions have benefits!
Name 1 thing the colonizers religion have benefitted us Africans?

Nobodyperson:
At least the English and inventions have benefits!
Name 1 thing the colonizers religion have benefitted us Africans?

Whenever you can say these words in your local dialect, then I know that you have advanced enough to be taken seriously.
1. Electron
2. Proton
3. Neutron
4. Sodium
5. Hydrogen
6. Meridian
7. Longitude
8. Glaze
9. Homogenise
10. Bolt and Nut.

Whatever your language, I believe I can get the lexicon (you can't lie). You only need 3/10 for a pass mark.

If you cannot pass this simple test, it's just a confirmation that you are a permanent slave who cannot think beyond what the white man has thought.

My Prediction:
You will avoid this challenge like a plague!

shadeyinka:
Whenever you can say these words in your local dialect, then I know that you have advanced enough to be taken seriously.
1. Electron
2. Proton
3. Neutron
4. Sodium
5. Hydrogen
6. Meridian
7. Longitude
8. Glaze
9. Homogenise
10. Bolt and Nut.

Whatever your language, I believe I can get the lexicon (you can't lie). You only need 3/10 for a pass mark.

If you cannot pass this simple test, it's just a confirmation that you are a permanent slave who cannot think beyond what the white man has thought.

My Prediction:
You will avoid this challenge like a plague!

I can't my speak my tribal language cuz my father never taught me, so what?

This is pointless.
If you use the internet then by your logic, you're a slave cuz the whites have control over it.
If you use a phone then you're a slave cuz most smartphone are either by the whites or Asians.

So stfu

Nobodyperson:

I can't my speak my tribal language cuz my father never taught me, so what?

This is pointless.
If you use the internet then by your logic, you're a slave cuz the whites have control over it.
If you use a phone then you're a slave cuz most smartphone are either by the whites or Asians.

So stfu

Shame on you!
And your accent is neither British nor American!!

So colonized you even lost your language! SMH!!!
I won't be surprised if you are also bearing the names of your oyinbo slave masters.
Go educate yourself, then come back

LordReed:
We have discussed about christianity does not equal we've discussed about what I believed. Don't attempt to be too clever. Also you keep misrepresenting what I say now, can you find any place where I said Jesus of Nazareth waS FABRICATED? If you can't don't be ashamed to say you erred ok? It's disastrous when you refuse to admit your mistakes, and most especially NOT when you're trying to correct others!

Wow! Wow!! Wow!!!

So are you now saying you agreed that Jesus was a real person who actually walked this planet?

Then what exactly do you think about him?
Because i'm of the opinion that this Jesus of Nazareth is God's son, as in the one and only person who can teach us the main purpose of life and how to relate with his father whom he often claims to be the Almighty God!

Come on LordReed, you can't eat your cake and still have it. If Jesus is truly an historical figure, then you need to tell us who he really was. Because there's no way anyone can relate the story of Jesus of Nazareth without the miracles surrounding his
© Prehuman existence
© Birth
© Miracles
© Preaching and Teaching
© Disciple making
© Persecution
© Arrest and Execution
© Resurrection
© Ascension to Heaven
© Dealings with his earthly followers as a mighty Spirit being.

Please my honourable Professor LordReed Sir, can you tell us what you know about Jesus of Nazareth?

Because his story has led to lots of arguments perhaps you're presently engaging in one of such arguments now!

So please Mr atheist, tell us what you know about Jesus of Nazareth, apart from your persistent "nonexistence arguments about a caring God" whom the guy from Nazareth lived and died for just because he keep asserting that {God Almighty} is a REAL person!

Maximus69:
Wow! Wow!! Wow!!!

So are you now saying you agreed that Jesus was a real person who actually walked this planet?

Then what exactly do you think about him?
Because i'm of the opinion that this Jesus of Nazareth is God's son, as in the one and only person who can teach us the main purpose of life and how to relate with his father whom he often claims to be the Almighty God!

Come on LordReed, you can't eat your cake and still have it. If Jesus is truly an historical figure, then you need to tell us who he really was. Because there's no way anyone can relate the story of Jesus of Nazareth without the miracles surrounding his
© Prehuman existence
© Birth
© Miracles
© Preaching and Teaching
© Disciple making
© Persecution
© Arrest and Execution
© Resurrection
© Ascension to Heaven
© Dealings with his earthly followers as a mighty Spirit being.

Please my honourable Professor LordReed Sir, can you tell us what you know about Jesus of Nazareth?

Because his story has led to lots of arguments perhaps you're presently engaging in one of such arguments now!

So please Mr atheist, tell us what you know about Jesus of Nazareth, apart from your persistent "nonexistence arguments about a caring God" whom the guy from Nazareth lived and died for just because he heep asserting that {God Almighty} is a REAL person!

Don't be a shameful person, admit you made a mistake before we discuss anything.

Wow!
Well you're human too, so it's no crime to be emotional when caught in a corner!
My honourable Professor LordReed, all protocol duly observed Sir!
Shamefulness has NOTHING to do with our tactful discussion.
If you truthfully acknowledged Jesus of Nazareth as a historical figure, please tell us what you know about him Sir!

LordReed:
Don't be a shameful person, admit you made a mistake before we discuss anything.

shadeyinka:
Shame on you!
And your accent is neither British nor American!!

So colonized you even lost your language! SMH!!!
I won't be surprised is you are also bearing the names of your oyinbo slave masters.
Go educate yourself, then come back

hahaha. I suggest that militant atheist run with his tail in between his lags. Weldon bro.

Maximus69:
Wow!
Well you're human too, so it's no crime to be emotional when caught in a corner!
My honourable Professor LordReed, all protocol duly observed Sir!
Shamefulness has NOTHING to do with our tactful discussion.
If you truthfully acknowledged Jesus of Nazareth as a historical figure, please tell us what you know about him Sir!

Until you admit your mistake I will have no discussion with you.

LordReed:
Until you admit your mistake I will have no discussion with you.

My friend, do you think i really need/want to have any discussion with you?

For a certainty you can never correlate atheism with the existence of Jesus of Nazareth!

THE CASE IS SETTLED SIR!

You were misinformed!
Of course you knew NOTHING about Jesus of Nazareth. You're just parading yourself to be a former Christian when in the actual fact you're never a Christian!
No wonder you're proud to be an atheist since you don't know what it really means to be a BELIEVER!

Michellekabod2:
Although the meaning of faith has been bitterly debated, and the people who succumb are fanatical in their deference, faith, when examined, when it is chased from the camouflage of scripture and ritual, is an apparition, a deceit upon which the façade of religion is constructed.

“Hawaii is moving toward Japan,” “Jesus rose from the dead,” “The solar system formed 4.6 billion years ago,” “Mohammed flew on the back of a flying horse.” These are all truth claims and while none of them can be absolutely certain they differ in their credibility.

Empirical knowledge is obtained through observation and is fundamentally verifiable and falsifiable. Evolution—the predominant anathema for the faithful—is verifiable. It can be observed in the selective breeding that has been used since prehistory to produce new varieties of plants and animals. The cultivation of new species was practised by the Romans and was established as a scientific practice during the British Agricultural Revolution in the 18th century
1. Evolution can be observed in the laboratory. Radiation of the fruit fly has produced more than 200 different populations. Scientists have even selected them “backwards” by returning them to the original ancestral environment

2.Evolution is falsifiable. If homo sapien remains were discovered and dated to the Precambrian era, approximately 530 million years before the first emergence of mammals, the theory of evolution would be eviscerated. Belief in empirical knowledge can be disambiguated as trust.

3. To trust is to believe based on evidence that is both verifiable and falsifiable. We trust in evolution.

Faith is relied upon when evidence is lacking but we want to believe something anyway. To have faith is to assert knowledge of something without reliable evidence and to even continue that assertion in the face of refutation. The proposition “I have faith in God,” does not contain the proposition “Maybe God exists,” or even that “I hope God exists,” it is the claim that “I know God exists.” It is a knowledge claim that cannot be justified by empirical evidence.

4. It is a self-deception and the self-justification of a desire for something to be true.

It is impossible to determine the veracity of so many multifarious and contradictory faith claims.

5. Christians believe that salvation is obtained through Jesus. Muslims believe that it is through adherence to the five pillars of Islam. While these beliefs can both be false, they cannot both be true. Muslims can not enter Paradise without accepting Christ as their saviour and Christians are doomed to perdition without total submission to Allah.

6.There is no way of ascertaining the veracity of any faith based claim. A Christian's faith in Jesus is no more or less valid than a Muslim's faith in Allah, a Hindu's faith in Vishnu, or a psychiatric patient's faith in the flying spaghetti monster. The Christian and the Muslim, the faithful and the insane, all have unwavering faith in something that cannot be substantiated or refuted.

Belief that there is no God is refutable. While the medicated denizens of psychiatric institutions demonstrate the unreliability of subjective claims to divine knowledge, if God, being omnipotent and therefore presumably a polyglot, were to commune with the entire population, to all the inhabitants of Earth, existential scepticism would be expelled.

If human remains were substantiated to be Jesus of Nazareth thereby disproving the ascension of Christ, would Christians relinquish their belief in his divinity? If a parchment were discovered documenting Mohammed's renouncement of all divine inspiration, if he had admitted to being a charlatan, would Muslims apostatise?

Some may renounce their beliefs, but those more profoundly entrenched within their tradition would not. There would be no evidence, however well attested, that they would accept. Their faith is beyond doubt and beyond evidence. The Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders defines this type of certainty and incorrigibility as a delusion

7. Holding a belief as incontestable is to be delusional. It is only the prevalence of that dissimulation that keeps the men in white coats from their door.

However, the pervasiveness of a belief has no relation to its truthfulness. It was once believed, perhaps by the entire population, that the world was flat, that the sun orbited the Earth and that sickness was caused by an imbalance in the four humors. The preponderance of those beliefs, or any belief, has no relation to its veracity.

Using faith in other aspects of life is incredulous, it is unsound and just plain inadvisable. I would be terrified if, without inspecting my car, a mechanic informed me that my brakes were operational because he had faith—he felt it in his heart—that my brakes were functional.

It does not matter which prophet we follow or which book we revere. It does not matter how much faith we can muster. All faith traditions coalesce into one panoptic delusion. It does not matter which celestial door we knock upon or in what manner or how many times. It does not matter how often we pray, or in what direction, there will always be someone else praying to an alternate God with the same solemnity, with the same certainty, and with the same faith. Whether religious or secular, faith cannot be defended with rationality, and is therefore promulgated through propaganda, ostracism, and ultimately violence.

Crisis of faith, or doubt, is not a Divine test. It is rationality ascending like a phoenix from the ashes of an indoctrinated mind. Faith is a vitriol to knowledge and understanding. It is claiming something we don't and can't know, it is insidious and unreliable. It is a delusion, an epistemological conjuring trick, an investiture of truth which can be, and often is, applied to any puerile absurdity imaginable. Faith is an asylum for the gullible, the obsequious and the unthinking. It is a refuge for fools.

By Neil's Brown, Atheistrepublic.com

Cc:Hahn,dantedasz,jesusjnr,solite3,vic2ree,joseph1013, lordreed, CAPSLOCKED, Martinez39, MJBOLT,hakeem4,dandeeboss, muttleylaff, johnydon22, OLAADEGBU,frosbel2, plaetton, happypagan

This is brilliant!

For a simple introduction to the Biblical concept of faith, see the video below:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S0tyRvSIEH4

(Hint: the video hints at why the OP's argument against faith fails).

Have a look at InspiringPhilosophy's other videos as well, if you're really interested in proper Christian responses to atheist objections like the one contained in the OP.

Michellekabod2:
Although the meaning of faith has been bitterly debated, and the people who succumb are fanatical in their deference, faith, when examined, when it is chased from the camouflage of scripture and ritual, is an apparition, a deceit upon which the façade of religion is constructed.

“Hawaii is moving toward Japan,” “Jesus rose from the dead,” “The solar system formed 4.6 billion years ago,” “Mohammed flew on the back of a flying horse.” These are all truth claims and while none of them can be absolutely certain they differ in their credibility.

Empirical knowledge is obtained through observation and is fundamentally verifiable and falsifiable. Evolution—the predominant anathema for the faithful—is verifiable. It can be observed in the selective breeding that has been used since prehistory to produce new varieties of plants and animals. The cultivation of new species was practised by the Romans and was established as a scientific practice during the British Agricultural Revolution in the 18th century
1. Evolution can be observed in the laboratory. Radiation of the fruit fly has produced more than 200 different populations. Scientists have even selected them “backwards” by returning them to the original ancestral environment

2.Evolution is falsifiable. If homo sapien remains were discovered and dated to the Precambrian era, approximately 530 million years before the first emergence of mammals, the theory of evolution would be eviscerated. Belief in empirical knowledge can be disambiguated as trust.

3. To trust is to believe based on evidence that is both verifiable and falsifiable. We trust in evolution.

Faith is relied upon when evidence is lacking but we want to believe something anyway. To have faith is to assert knowledge of something without reliable evidence and to even continue that assertion in the face of refutation. The proposition “I have faith in God,” does not contain the proposition “Maybe God exists,” or even that “I hope God exists,” it is the claim that “I know God exists.” It is a knowledge claim that cannot be justified by empirical evidence.

4. It is a self-deception and the self-justification of a desire for something to be true.

It is impossible to determine the veracity of so many multifarious and contradictory faith claims.

5. Christians believe that salvation is obtained through Jesus. Muslims believe that it is through adherence to the five pillars of Islam. While these beliefs can both be false, they cannot both be true. Muslims can not enter Paradise without accepting Christ as their saviour and Christians are doomed to perdition without total submission to Allah.

6.There is no way of ascertaining the veracity of any faith based claim. A Christian's faith in Jesus is no more or less valid than a Muslim's faith in Allah, a Hindu's faith in Vishnu, or a psychiatric patient's faith in the flying spaghetti monster. The Christian and the Muslim, the faithful and the insane, all have unwavering faith in something that cannot be substantiated or refuted.

Belief that there is no God is refutable. While the medicated denizens of psychiatric institutions demonstrate the unreliability of subjective claims to divine knowledge, if God, being omnipotent and therefore presumably a polyglot, were to commune with the entire population, to all the inhabitants of Earth, existential scepticism would be expelled.

If human remains were substantiated to be Jesus of Nazareth thereby disproving the ascension of Christ, would Christians relinquish their belief in his divinity? If a parchment were discovered documenting Mohammed's renouncement of all divine inspiration, if he had admitted to being a charlatan, would Muslims apostatise?

Some may renounce their beliefs, but those more profoundly entrenched within their tradition would not. There would be no evidence, however well attested, that they would accept. Their faith is beyond doubt and beyond evidence. The Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders defines this type of certainty and incorrigibility as a delusion

7. Holding a belief as incontestable is to be delusional. It is only the prevalence of that dissimulation that keeps the men in white coats from their door.

However, the pervasiveness of a belief has no relation to its truthfulness. It was once believed, perhaps by the entire population, that the world was flat, that the sun orbited the Earth and that sickness was caused by an imbalance in the four humors. The preponderance of those beliefs, or any belief, has no relation to its veracity.

Using faith in other aspects of life is incredulous, it is unsound and just plain inadvisable. I would be terrified if, without inspecting my car, a mechanic informed me that my brakes were operational because he had faith—he felt it in his heart—that my brakes were functional.

It does not matter which prophet we follow or which book we revere. It does not matter how much faith we can muster. All faith traditions coalesce into one panoptic delusion. It does not matter which celestial door we knock upon or in what manner or how many times. It does not matter how often we pray, or in what direction, there will always be someone else praying to an alternate God with the same solemnity, with the same certainty, and with the same faith. Whether religious or secular, faith cannot be defended with rationality, and is therefore promulgated through propaganda, ostracism, and ultimately violence.

Crisis of faith, or doubt, is not a Divine test. It is rationality ascending like a phoenix from the ashes of an indoctrinated mind. Faith is a vitriol to knowledge and understanding. It is claiming something we don't and can't know, it is insidious and unreliable. It is a delusion, an epistemological conjuring trick, an investiture of truth which can be, and often is, applied to any puerile absurdity imaginable. Faith is an asylum for the gullible, the obsequious and the unthinking. It is a refuge for fools.

By Neil's Brown, Atheistrepublic.com

Cc:Hahn,dantedasz,jesusjnr,solite3,vic2ree,joseph1013, lordreed, CAPSLOCKED, Martinez39, MJBOLT,hakeem4,dandeeboss, muttleylaff, johnydon22, OLAADEGBU,frosbel2, plaetton, happypagan

Bookmarked

shadeyinka:
Christians have the obligation to preach the gospel to all nations.

The question you need to consider is, what is the gospel, because only by knowing what the gospel is can one fulfil an obligation to preach it.

shadeyinka:
Just as it takes faith to be a Christian, it takes faith to be an atheist for at a Scientific or logical or psychological level, no one can prove or disprove God

I would rather build whatever it is I build on the solid ground of knowledge, which is why I can very safely say that it is not faith that makes me give any credit to Christianity, which for me is Bible, for in it is the "proof or disproof for God for those with understanding.

Do note that if you ask me for proof or disproof, I would first require that you tell me what God is, to you.

budaatum:
The question you need to consider is, what is the gospel, because only by knowing what the gospel is can one fulfil an obligation to preach it.

Very long time my friend!
The Gospel simply as literally means "GOOD NEWS"!

The question then is,: What is this Good News?

The Good News is that GRACE for Forgiveness of Sin and Eternal Life with God has been given to who ever will receive it by faith in the Solution of God.

Whoever received Gods solution has Life but whoever rejects it is Condemned already.

Unfortunately, how can a person receive a gift/solution he is oblivious of?
Hence the job of the Christian is to TELL people everywhere in LOVE of the availability of the Free gift of LIFE in exchange for their Miserable Future as once who was saved because someone somewhere did the same for him.

shadeyinka:
Very long time my friend!
The Gospel simply as literally means "GOOD NEWS"!

The question then is,: What is this Good News?

The Good News is that GRACE for Forgiveness of Sin and Eternal Life with God has been given to who ever will receive it by faith in the Solution of God.

Whoever received Gods solution has Life but whoever rejects it is Condemned already.

Unfortunately, how can a person receive a gift/solution he is oblivious of?
Hence the job of the Christian is to TELL people everywhere in LOVE of the availability of the Free gift of LIFE in exchange for their Miserable Future as once who was saved because someone somewhere did the same for him.

Long time indeed. I agree that "The Gospel simply literally means "GOOD NEWS", but I can't see why I'd need the fear of a future to convince people that my news is good if it were truly good, nor do I agree that "I am telling people everywhere in love" if one of my telling tools is fear. "O so childishly 12 century", is my response when the Lord of fear is preached to me. Besides, do you really want me to accept your Good News because I'm afraid?

I put it to you that the obligation of Christians, so far as spreading the Good News, is that Christians "let your light shine before others, that they may see your good deeds and glorify your Father in heaven". Basically, if I give them good fruits they'd more likely eat and know how fruity fruits are than if I just tell them to have faith and believe that fruits are fruity.

The good deeds, fruits as otherwise known, are the evidence the News is Good, at least according to the Gospel, and the way to effectively preach it is to be walking it too.

budaatum:
I would rather build whatever it is I build on the solid ground of knowledge, which is why I can very safely say that it is not faith that makes me give any credit to Christianity, which for me is Bible, for in it is the "proof or disproof for God for those with understanding.

Do note that if you ask me for proof or disproof, I would first require that you tell me what God is, to you.

I think there are many possibilities to arriving at Christ.
1. Some first Believe and develop faith in Christ without bothering about deeper scriptural knowledge and understanding
2. Some believe first and then Scrutinize by knowledge the basis of their Faith
3. Some arrive at Christ first from an intellectual point of view before developing their Faith in Christ
4. Some arrive at Christ because their comfort zone was disturbed and they found solution and succor by Christ through it
5. Some came to Christ because they were chasing something else and they stumbled accidentally into Faith

At the end of the day, it isn't the means to Christ that matters as much as the conclusion: A Solid Faith in Christ!

shadeyinka:
I think there are many possibilities to arriving at Christ.
1. Some first Believe and develop faith in Christ without bothering about deeper scriptural knowledge and understanding
2. Some believe first and then Scrutinize by knowledge the basis of their Faith
3. Some arrive at Christ first from an intellectual point of view before developing their Faith in Christ
4. Some arrive at Christ because their comfort zone was disturbed and they found solution and succor by Christ through it
5. Some came to Christ because they were chasing something else and they stumbled accidentally into Faith

At the end of the day, it isn't the means to Christ that matters as much as the conclusion: A Solid Faith in Christ!

Some of what you describe are solid faith in Christ while some are not so solid I would have thought, but I agree, for it is as written, "it is the lame who walk and the blind who see and the deaf who hear and the poor in spirit get to hear the Gospel".

I'm glad all is well with you.

budaatum:
Long time indeed. I agree that "The Gospel simply literally means "GOOD NEWS", but I can't see why I'd need the fear of a future to convince people that my news is good if it were truly good, nor do I agree that "I am telling people everywhere in love" if one of my telling tools is fear. "O so childishly 12 century", is my response when the Lord of fear is preached to me. Besides, do you really want me to accept your Good News because I'm afraid?

I put it to you that the obligation of Christians, so far as spreading the Good News, is that Christians "let your light shine before others, that they may see your good deeds and glorify your Father in heaven". Basically, if I give them good fruits they'd more likely eat and know how fruity fruits are than if I just tell them to have faith and believe that fruits are fruity.

The good deeds, fruits as otherwise known, are the evidence the News is Good, at least according to the Gospel, and the way to effectively preach it is to be walking it too.

I see this Good News more like
1. being given an admission for my desired course in the University even though I do not meet the minimum qualification
2. being set free from prison even though I was guilty as charged for a serious crime
3. being given a brand new kidney by a stranger when I have given up all hope

The good news makes no sense until one see that he has the nature of sin and therefore guilty of the Crime of Sin. When one become a new creature, the fruit of the Spirit should begin to manifest. Yes the fruit has the potential of attracting others to Christ just as it has the potential of causing people to hate you. (Jesus was hated by many for these same Fruit of the Spirit).

I preach the Gospel from different levels depending on the "target"
1. Some already go to church and claim to love Christ but do not know about Gods plan of salvation for themselves
2. Some are unchurched and are of opposing Faiths e.g. Muslims
3. Some are indifferent but not antagonistic to spiritual matters
4. Some are atheists and may or may not be antagonistic to spiritual matters

The Good news is showing a person that he is heading in a path of destruction AND there has been provided a solution.

I think I will consider it Good News if I am told the TRUTH that my Airplane will soon be crashing AND a Parachute has been provided under my seat for such eventualities.
Would I appreciate not being told that the plane is crashing?
What would be the effect of telling me that a parachute is under my seat but no warning that the plane will certainly crash?

budaatum:
Some of what you describe are solid faith in Christ while some are not so solid I would have thought, but I agree, for it is as written, "it is the lame who walk and the blind who see and the deaf who hear and the poor in spirit get to hear the Gospel".

I'm glad all is well with you.

So glad its well with you too.

shadeyinka:
I see this Good News more like
1. being given an admission for my desired course in the University even though I do not meet the minimum qualification
2. being set free from prison even though I was guilty as charged for a serious crime
3. being given a brand new kidney by a stranger when I have given up all hope.

Compare it with mine and tell what you think

I see this Good News more like
1. being given an admission for my desired course in the University because I read and understood "In the beginning was the Word" and know what I must do with it is study hard and pass exams.

2. Not committing crime because the Good News says not to from its very beginning.

3. Not giving up hope if I need a kidney because I would not be foresaken even if I died.

The Good News makes sense if understood, I think.

budaatum:
Compare it with mine and tell what you think

I see this Good News more like
1. being given an admission for my desired course in the University because I read and understood "In the beginning was the Word" and know what I must do with it is study hard and pass exams.

2. Not committing crime because the Good News says not to from its very beginning.

3. Not giving up hope if I need a kidney because I would not be forsaken even if I died.

The Good News makes sense if understood, I think.

I think you have presented Good news from the point of view of Merit (highlighted in red). Unfortunately, no one merits salvation.
Eph6:8-9
For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith--and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God. not by works, so that no one can boast.

Rom3:23
For all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God

Good news stems from the above. I am just a sinner saved by Grace. The good news is that I was forgiven of a debt that is beyond me to pay.

Mark16:15-16
15And He said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature. 16Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned

The Good news has everything to do with believing in Gods solution for the problem of the sin nature of man

shadeyinka:
I see this Good News more like
1. being given an admission for my desired course in the University even though I do not meet the minimum qualification
2. being set free from prison even though I was guilty as charged for a serious crime
3. being given a brand new kidney by a stranger when I have given up all hope

I see a problem with the above. There is a minimum qualification in order to get this admission though. Forget the gobble-de-gook that you have heard taught by so-called Preachers/Pastors/Prophets/Primates/Popes/Oversers/Bishops/Priests etc and think about what Jesus Christ really did say.
Clearly, from the beginning, Jesus Christ made it known that admission is not FREE! You have to meet the requirement i.e. there is a yoke(commandments to obey) and a burden to bear

Matthew 11 vs 27-30 (ESV)
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27. All things have been handed over to me by my Father, and no one knows the Son except the Father, and no one knows the Father except the Son and anyone to whom the Son chooses to reveal him.
28. Come to me, all who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
29. Take my yoke upon you, and learn from me, for I am gentle and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls.
30. For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.”

The very same Jesus Christ then tells you, in the passages below, that you have to first prove yourself worthy of Him in order to become His follower. He tells you that you need to be willing to hate your loved ones, be ready to carry your own cross alone, and also be ready to loose your life(self, career, reputation, property etc.)if you want Admission...

Matthew 10 vs 34-39
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34. “Do not think that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace. I came to bring trouble.[h]
35. I have come to make this happen:
‘A son will turn against his father.
A daughter will turn against her mother.
A daughter-in-law will turn against her mother-in-law.
36. Even members of your own family will be your enemies.’
37. “Those who love their father or mother more than they love me are not worthy of me. And those who love their son or daughter more than they love me are not worthy of me.
38. Those who will not accept the cross that is given to them when they follow me are not worthy of me.
39. Those who try to keep the life they have will lose it. But those who give up their life for me will find true life.

The very same Jesus Christ goes on to tell you in this passage that in addition, that you must be willing to seek his kingdom annd his rule over you, basically submit your control over your life in totality to Him and Him alone, if you want admission into His kingdom

Matthew 6 vs 25-34
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25. “So I tell you, don’t worry about the things you need to live—what you will eat, drink, or wear. Life is more important than food, and the body is more important than what you put on it.
26. Look at the birds. They don’t plant, harvest, or save food in barns, but your heavenly Father feeds them. Don’t you know you are worth much more than they are?
27. You cannot add any time to your life by worrying about it.
28. “And why do you worry about clothes? Look at the wildflowers in the field. See how they grow. They don’t work or make clothes for themselves.
29. But I tell you that even Solomon, the great and rich king, was not dressed as beautifully as one of these flowers.
30. If God makes what grows in the field so beautiful, what do you think he will do for you? It’s just grass—one day it’s alive, and the next day someone throws it into a fire. But God cares enough to make it beautiful. Surely he will do much more for you. Your faith is so small!
31. “Don’t worry and say, ‘What will we eat?’ or ‘What will we drink?’ or ‘What will we wear?’
32. That’s what those people who don’t know God are always thinking about. Don’t worry, because your Father in heaven knows that you need all these things.
33. What you should want most is God’s kingdom and doing what he wants you to do. Then he will give you all these other things you need.
34. So don’t worry about tomorrow. Each day has enough trouble of its own. Tomorrow will have its own worries.

In addition, He clearly states that anyone who does not become like a child, can never gain admission into His kingdom

Matthew 14 vs 23-24
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23. Then he said, “The truth is, you must change your thinking and become like little children. If you don’t do this, you will never enter God’s kingdom.
24. The greatest person in God’s kingdom is the one who makes himself humble like this child.

Yep, my friend. There is a minimum qualification necessary for to enter Jesus Christ's University, i.e. the Kingdom of Heaven. Admission is not without an exam, and everyone can try but only those who pass the test will become qualify to becoming a follower of Jesus Christ and gain admission into the Kingdom of Heaven.
After all, remember the story of the rich man who met all of the other requirements but refused to pass the last test, which is to loose all that he owned. We all know that did not end up a follower of Jesus Christ, and hence did not enter the kingdom as a result.

shadeyinka:
I think you have presented Good news from the point of view of Merit (highlighted in red). Unfortunately, no one merits salvation.
Eph6:8-9
For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith--and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God. not by works, so that no one can boast.

Rom3:23
For all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God

Good news stems from the above. I am just a sinner saved by Grace. The good news is that I was forgiven of a debt that is beyond me to pay.

Mark16:15-16
15And He said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature. 16Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned

The Good news has everything to do with believing in Gods solution for the problem of the sin nature of man

People tend to think I am claiming salvation is merit like its a reward for what someone does, then they quote verses that scream to me "God has given you Grace, buda, so work harder with it instead of hiding the talent the Lord God has given thee least it be taken away from thee".

Salvation for me starts on earth and could best be summed up as the peace of mind one has after giving one's life to Christ. The 'work' in this instance would be one's personal conviction to follow Christ and the reward is Salvation. Do tell me if those who do not do the work of giving their life to Christ receive salvation? (And note what I have called work.)

Upon the initial receipt of this earthly salvation, one can not but be compelled to work since a result of Christ in ones life is "Love thy neighbours", which is work, or would you argue loving one's neighbours is not work? If it isn't work, then consider if it takes work to love one's enemies which is a higher demand of Christ. Then consider if it does not take work to be a peacemaker.

I guess for me part of the definition of Christ himself is work, because picking up and carrying crosses is most definitely work and a very important command of Christ, as is preaching the Gospel. Even slugging through the Bible from the beginning to the end is hard brain harrowing work which most never do as you can tell by ones enemies and misunderstandings, though I would say that might be because we do not have the Grace to do this basic most important work of read the Word, not to talk of understand it.

I'd go further and claim that God's very first command to worship God which is written as, "Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it; have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth" is so full of work that should be done to be blessed that the only quibble is whether it means 'worship' or not, but despite what one wants to believe, it is definitely those who worship this way that end up being blessed though I do admit that God can be benevolent and graceful.

Trust me when I say nothing in what I've said here is as a result of work that I have done but due to the Grace of the Almighty Lord God who has given me the ability to do the work so that I may have an understanding instead of just merely believing as some say one should without realising that there is no merit in simply emulating trembling demons.

I am putting it to you that you had to put in the work to acquire the understanding that you have or you might have been much less graced and blessed by God, but do let me know if this is not your experience and that I am incorrect.

Kobojunkie:
I see a problem with the above. There is a minimum qualification in order to get this admission though.

People forget this for some reason yet you would hear them say "only through Christ shall one enter the Kingdom of God", as if the Christ they speak of was not a Chief Mega Worker who exhorted his followers to do even more work than he did.

If only it were understood that the saved get to dwell in the Tabernacle of the Lord they might understand the qualification for admission.

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shadeyinka:
The good news is that I was forgiven of a debt that is beyond me to pay.

Perhaps see my attitude to work, not as payment for the debt of my forgiven sins which Christ paid in full and which I can never ever repay, but the result of the gratitude I feel towards Christ for bothering to pay such a huge price for one as unworthy as me.

budaatum:
Perhaps see my attitude to work, not as payment for the debt of my forgiven sins which Christ paid in full and which I can never ever repay, but the result of the gratitude I feel towards Christ for bothering to pay such a huge price for one as unworthy as me .

The bolded above highlights SALVATION as by grace.

We were actually saved so that we can WORK for Christ with an attitude that is a result of gratitude for what God did for us. Any work done outside this for God is dead work/filthy rags. Christ also encourages us to work faithfully for Him because our service in love brings its own reward.

budaatum:
People tend to think I am claiming salvation is merit like its a reward for what someone does, then they quote verses that scream to me "God has given you Grace, buda, so work harder with it instead of hiding the talent the Lord God has given thee least it be taken away from thee".

Salvation for me starts on earth and could best be summed up as the peace of mind one has after giving one's life to Christ. The 'work' in this instance would be one's personal conviction to follow Christ and the reward is Salvation. Do tell me if those who do not do the work of giving their life to Christ receive salvation? (And note what I have called work.)

Upon the initial receipt of this earthly salvation, one can not but be compelled to work since a result of Christ in ones life is "Love thy neighbours", which is work, or would you argue loving one's neighbours is not work? If it isn't work, then consider if it takes work to love one's enemies which is a higher demand of Christ. Then consider if it does not take work to be a peacemaker.

I guess for me part of the definition of Christ himself is work, because picking up and carrying crosses is most definitely work and a very important command of Christ, as is preaching the Gospel. Even slugging through the Bible from the beginning to the end is hard brain harrowing work which most never do as you can tell by ones enemies and misunderstandings, though I would say that might be because we do not have the Grace to do this basic most important work of read the Word, not to talk of understand it.

I'd go further and claim that God's very first command to worship God which is written as, "Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it; have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth" is so full of work that should be done to be blessed that the only quibble is whether it means 'worship' or not, but despite what one wants to believe, it is definitely those who worship this way that end up being blessed though I do admit that God can be benevolent and graceful.

Trust me when I say nothing in what I've said here is as a result of work that I have done but due to the Grace of the Almighty Lord God who has given me the ability to do the work so that I may have an understanding instead of just merely believing as some say one should without realising that there is no merit in simply emulating trembling demons.

I am putting it to you that you had to put in the work to acquire the understanding that you have or you might have been much less graced and blessed by God, but do let me know if this is not your experience and that I am incorrect.

Of course Good Works MUST follow Salvation received by Grace but the converse is meaningless. Good works cannot precede Salvation.

Looking at the sentence I have highlighted in RED, I have a feeling that you are superimposing WORKS on FAITH because of those who preach GRACE as if WORKS is not important. These kind of people seem to be the majority amongs Christians and perhaps this is why our LIGHTS are so DIM in the world.

Not withstanding however, we must learn to properly distinguish between GRACE and WORKS. A person can be truly SAVED by GRACE without an iota of Works. A good example is the "good thief" on the Cross. All he did was to TRUST in Christ and asked "Remember me when you get to your kingdom.." and Jesus said to him, "Today, you will be with me in Paradise".
1 Cor 3:13-15
Each one’s work will become obvious, for the day will disclose it, because it will be revealed by fire; the fire will test the quality of each one’s work. If anyone’s work that he has built survives, he will receive a reward. If anyone’s work is burned up , it will be lost, but he will be saved; yet it will be like an escape through fire (saved as by the skin of their teeth).

But why would a Christian plan to spend his eternity without any WORKS as a memorial?

Fruitfulness is a function of our Work for Christ. It is impossible to demonstrate our faith to men except by works only God has the power to differentiate between an immature Wheat Plant and Tares.

Kobojunkie:
I see a problem with the above. There is a minimum qualification in order to get this admission though. Forget the gobble-de-gook that you have heard taught by so-called Preachers/Pastors/Prophets/Primates/Popes/Oversers/Bishops/Priests etc and think about what Jesus Christ really did say.
Clearly, from the beginning, Jesus Christ made it known that admission is not FREE! You have to meet the requirement i.e. there is a yoke(commandments to obey) and a burden to bear

The very same Jesus Christ then tells you, in the passages below, that you have to first prove yourself worthy of Him in order to become His follower. He tells you that you need to be willing to hate your loved ones, be ready to carry your own cross alone, and also be ready to loose your life(self, career, reputation, property etc.)if you want Admission...

The very same Jesus Christ goes on to tell you in this passage that in addition, that you must be willing to seek his kingdom annd his rule over you, basically submit your control over your life in totality to Him and Him alone, if you want admission into His kingdom

In addition, He clearly states that anyone who does not become like a child, can never gain admission into His kingdom


Yep, my friend. There is a minimum qualification necessary for to enter Jesus Christ's University, i.e. the Kingdom of Heaven. Admission is not without an exam, and everyone can try but only those who pass the test will become qualify to becoming a follower of Jesus Christ and gain admission into the Kingdom of Heaven.
After all, remember the story of the rich man who met all of the other requirements but refused to pass the last test, which is to loose all that he owned. We all know that did not end up a follower of Jesus Christ, and hence did not enter the kingdom as a result.

The "good thief" on the cross was saved: How?
Was it by Faith or by Works?

Of course works is important in that it is only through our works that we can bear fruit and validate out faith to men.

The minimum qualification needed to Enter the University of heaven is Faith with which to COME to CHRIST for the Free Gift of God (Salvation). After our Admission into the University of Heaven, we then begin to legally work on our Spiritual CGPA.

Salvation does not give any man a reward, good works is what gives us reward in heaven.

shadeyinka:
The "good thief" on the cross was saved: How?
Was it by Faith or by Works?

I cannot speak to those who died BEFORE Jesus Christ's death and resurrection. For all you and I know, the story that Jesus Christ preached to the souls in chains(souls who died before jesus Christ did) may have some truth to it. What I can speak of though is that which applies to those who come after His death wanting to become His follower, and what I have to say to that is what Jesus Christ Himself teaches us all.

shadeyinka:
Of course works is important in that it is only through our works that we can bear fruit and validate out faith to men.
The minimum qualification needed to Enter the University of heaven is Faith with which to COME to CHRIST for the Free Gift of God (Salvation). After our Admission into the University of Heaven, we then begin to legally work on our Spiritual CGPA.
Salvation does not give any man a reward, good works is what gives us reward in heaven.

Faith without works is dead after all. So, according to Jesus Christ's own stipulation, faith alone cannot get you to becoming his follower.... you need works with your faith in order to qualify for membership in His exclusive club, and yet more work is necessary even after that to enter into the Kingdom of Heaven by the way.

shadeyinka:
The bolded above highlights SALVATION as by grace.

We were actually saved so that we can WORK for Christ with an attitude that is a result of gratitude for what God did for us. Any work done outside this for God is dead work/filthy rags. Christ also encourages us to work faithfully for Him because our service in love brings its own reward.

When I think of the Bible, which for me is Salvation, I become overwhelmed at all the work done by millions who got it from being written thousand of years ago and passed it down through the centuries into my poor hands so I can be saved, because many died in the process of doing that work. Then I read about the so many people in the Bible itself who were burned and stoned and crucified and swallowed by giant fish, to mention just a few, while working for my salvation to the Glory of God, all which if not done I might still be damned.

I guess its a chicken or egg thing which is first for salvation, be it work or grace, but work does appear to be [url=https://classic.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Genesis+2%3A15&version=NIV]the reason humans were created at the very beginning[/url] so I hold it in very high regard in the whole scheme of things as I understand you hold Grace. But if humans relied more on the reason for their creation, I think there would actually be an increase in Grace.

As to what is "dead work/filthy rags", the Parable of the Orangutan springs to mind.

budaatum:
In reply Jesus said: “A man was stuck in a river".

"A photographer stood there taking photos while an orangutan saved the man".

“Which of these do you think was a neighbor to the man stuck in a river?”

The expert in the law replied, “The one who had mercy on him.”

Jesus told him, “[url=https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke+10%3A25-37&version=NIV]Go and do likewise[/url].”

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