₦airaland Forum

bukatyne:
Chai!

How did you come to this conclusion?

I know two other of his monikers in this forum and I know his personal struggles.

Someone lost his job, decided to leave his family behind at home to hustle for jobs, and somehow, the OP concluded that marriage plunged him into poverty.

After describing his poor background, he still somehow blame marriage for his state of poverty? How does marriage makes a poor man poor?

That's like blaming his wife and kids for a generational misfortune.

Even if you ignorantly want to blame his misfortunes on marriage, what about the unmarried touts with kids but no marriage? What about the poor Davido, and the low-budget Wizkid with plenty kids? Should we blame marriage? Is Wizkid a married man?

Last time I checked, majority of the so called poor kids came from unmarried ones, so why blame a simple union between 2 people in a society where even a 16 year child knows all the sex positions?

Let's put this straight, the unmarried ones have obviously produced more poor kids than the married folks. So the OP's message was poorly constructed, and the topic? It's definitely SENSELESS.

Summarily put, marriage will never be a cause or way out of poverty. Whoever can afford to pay his dowry and foot his wedding expenses, obviously, can buy pampers unless, of course, life happens (job loss, financial or investment mistakes, etc.)

Acidosis:
Someone lost his job, decided to leave his family behind at home to hustle for jobs, and somehow, the OP concluded that marriage plunged him into poverty.

After describing his poor background, he still somehow blame marriage for his state of poverty? How does marriage makes a poor man poor?

That's like blaming is wife and kids for a generational misfortune.

Even if you ignorantly want to blame his misfortunes on marriage, what about the unmarried touts with kids but no marriage? What about the poor Davido, and the low-budget Wizkid with plenty kids? Should we blame marriage? Is Wizkid a married man? Last time I checked, majority of the so called poor kids came from unmarried ones, so why blame a simple union between 2 people on marriage in a society where even a 16 year child knows all the sex positions?

Let's put this straight, the unmarried ones have obviously produced more poor kids than the married folks. So the OP's message was poorly misconstructed, and the poor? It's definitely SENSELESS.

Summarily put, marriage will never be a cause or way out of poverty. Whoever can afford to pay his dowry, and foot his wedding expenses, obviously, can buy pampers unless, of course, life happens.

Damn dude! This was awesomely harsh!!

Too many misguided young people on Nairaland who have chosen to blame marital relationships for all the wrongs they percieve

poiunt:
100K as a man, if your wife is working also, then combine income will help in moving the family to the next level

Also just because you have 100k does not mean that you should born kids like rat

At least on a 100k salary or a combine income of 170k , one kid should be enough until when their is improvement in circumstances.

An individual is considered poor in Nigeria when has an availability of less than 137.4 thousand Nigerian Naira (roughly 361 U.S. dollars) per year. In total, 40.1 percent of population in Nigeria lived in poverty.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/1121438/poverty-headcount-rate-in-nigeria-by-state/#:~:text=In%20Lagos%2C%20this%20figure%20equaled,in%20Nigeria%20lived%20in%20poverty.

100k monthly is 1.2m a year. I have no statistics on this but I'll guestimate less than 20% of Nigerians earn higher than that figure.

That's a lot of people not "worthy" of marital companionship.

NoToPile:
Op the poster of particular thread you made reference to didn't bash poor people( maybe some of the comments did bash poor people) but you are right that poor people are being bashed everywhere.

Some seem to think they have it all figured out but you see life can be very funny.

They can't seem to grasp why this person/ friend has not gotten to a particular level in life, they can't understand that things might just go haywire at some point irrespective of how financially secure the person thinks he/she is.

Some are born in poverty and they live and might die in poverty.
Some are born in wealth, they will live in wealth and end up dying poor.
Some born in poverty will end up in wealth.
Some born into wealth will live in wealth and even leave wealth for their grandchildren to inherit.

Life will teach some people. Nobody wants to be poor, no one plans to be poor but the poor will always be among us and these are things some people will never understand.

Best submission on this thread.

Heiterkeit:
I know two other of his monikers in this forum and I know his personal struggles.

Monitoring spirit.

LewsTherin:
Damn dude! This was awesomely harsh!!

Too many misguided young people on Nairaland who have chosen to blame marital relationships for all the wrongs they percieve

Too many and it is so sad.

LordKO:
It's only people who haven't witnessed, first-hand, savvy and erudite multibillionaires turn to paupers within almost twinkle of eyes, and paupers with grit and grace who've risen from obscurity to not just wealthy but also influential people, that will always cast aspersions on the kind of person under discussion and his marital and reasonable reproduction choices.

Many a time, it takes grit rather than ignorance or arrogance to begin such phase of life in such an unfavourable fate.
So, personally, I'll always accord maximum regard to people who've his kind of grit, provided that they acted on self-conviction/conscientiously. Don't count him off until he dies.

With grit, definiteness of purpose and good support system/grace, which can come from anywhere and anytime, that same man may become economically better than 99 percent of you within less than 1 year, all things being equal.

@Bold:

I told a poster on another thread that money has wings and can fly.

She asked how?

Peeps need to look around more.

.

poiunt:
I will like to ask you a question

who will you go for in marriage

A financially stable man or a man without income aka Poor man?

Pls answer my question without being bias

I met my husband in the university so obviously, 'financial stability' at that point was non-existent.

I have never based my choice of husband on money; my mother overfed me with confidence that I knew/know I will be rich enough to enjoy myself. With money out, comes character, vision, ambition, and if he is/was the one for me. (I believe in soulmates/God destined spouses).

@bold, some things just astonish me.
It was on NL I first read that having one child is the same as being barren. So one is equal to zero?
I asked the person who made the comment if he considers himself as one and the same with a non-existent person who was never born and he couldn’t answer me.

So many destructive and senseless ideologies that people believe and carry around.

NerdyRudeGyal:
Nigerians do treat "marriage and procreation as one and the same". Telling Nigerians not to have kids or to control the number after getting married isn't a bad idea, but it would be a futile effort b|c most Nigerians get married with the intention of having kids, love sex, believe in the idea that babies bring blessings, may face pressure from relatives to have kids/more kids/a male child, etc. There was one thread I was reading last week in which a NLder was seeking financial assistance to pay for her hospital bills, buy medicine ('drugs') and baby things. When another NLder asked why she and the spouse didn't wait until they were financially-capable to have a second child her exact reply is that having one child is like being barren. I can't write yoruba well but I recall she used the word "agon" (barren woman) and knew what that meant after watching a Nollywood movie with that title last year, starring Mercy Aigbe. Who knew having only one child is synonymous to being barren? So, while your suggestion is quite good, I doubt the feasibility in Nigeria. I suppose urging people to have enough money/savings before getting married or at least sit down and create a budget if they know they'll be having a child soon after getting married (hospital costs, food, baby things, etc, should be considered) might work. But iunno. It's hard to advice Nigerians, lol.

Over here, you can have as many kids as you want without paying a dime (no hospital costs or whatever). Parents even receive monthly tax-free benefits from the gov't for having a child. Yet, even with all the free stuff available (healthcare, education, money, etc), I don't see citizens having too many kids. In fact, what you've suggested is what I've seen here - people getting married and deciding not to have kids, or controlling the number (one or two kids max). I know one couple who have been married for 3 years and they're still saying they're not ready to have any child b|c they want to travel the world first (they take several vacations every year). Anyway, people should live their life as they deem fit.

bukatyne:
I met my husband in the university so obviously, 'financial stability' at that point was non-existent.

I have never based my choice of husband on money; my mother overfed me with confidence that I knew/know I will be rich enough to enjoy myself. With money out, comes character, vision, ambition, and if he is/was the one for me. (I believe in soulmates/God destined spouses).

But if he didn't improve himself, i believe, you wouldn't have given him the respect he deserved.

The reality is that 90% of women will go for a financially stable man over a poor man

A financially stable man does not need to have millions but at least has a stable income to take care of the family.

I will continue to stay this, Without money, you can not achieve vision or ambition.

bukatyne:
@Bold:

I told a poster on another thread that money has wings and can fly.

She asked how?

Peeps need to look around more.

Money does not have any wing nor does it fly away.

The only way people get broke easily is living above their means, bad investments and also no saving.

NoToPile:
Op the poster of particular thread you made reference to didn't bash poor people( maybe some of the comments did bash poor people) but you are right that poor people are being bashed everywhere.

Some seem to think they have it all figured out but you see life can be very funny.

They can't seem to grasp why this person/ friend has not gotten to a particular level in life, they can't understand that things might just go haywire at some point irrespective of how financially secure the person thinks he/she is.

Some are born in poverty and they live and might die in poverty.
Some are born in wealth, they will live in wealth and end up dying poor.
Some born in poverty will end up in wealth.
Some born into wealth will live in wealth and even leave wealth for their grandchildren to inherit.

Life will teach some people. Nobody wants to be poor, no one plans to be poor but the poor will always be among us and these are things some people will never understand.

I totally disagree.

Every Fortune was started by a poor person.... even those who were born in wealth, their poor grand father started it all.

Only a human can change his so called destiny.

People get rich, average and poor because they want.

People lose and get money because of their lifestyle.

To be rich is hard but how many people are willing to give that sacrifice to become rich

@Lewstherin

I completely understand where you are coming from but how does marriage help then?
Will being married give hope to the hopeless? Will it help lift the person out of despair?

Should a person not aspire to be more before getting married?

I believe that before someone ties the knot,they should be clear about the direction they are going and then get with someone who shares the same values and goal.

Life is filled with unforseen circumstances,but is it not wiser to give yourself a good headstart?Even in the best of situations there will be plenty challenges. Why punish yourself?


Plenty children are roaming up and down the country because of hope.How many of them are going to be able to lift their families out of this poverty?

Why should a child be used as a poverty alleviation scheme? It is awful. No child should live with the burden of such expectations as it has knock on effects and can lead to high levels of desperation.

I do not live in Naija so I do not know what ideal earnings are BUT if a person is able to feed himself comfortably ,he should look for someone who is able to feed herself too..that already creates 2 streams of income no matter how little.

If man is down,there's wife's income to help.If woman is down,there's husband's income to support. When they combine income,they can plan and save even if it's a very tiny proportion.

Then before having any children at all, they use contraception and make sure they understand the financial implication of even one baby.

They should only have the number they can afford to feed without begging for alms..

No one knows tomorrow but adequate planning helps to cushion any shocks..

People are now tired of paying for costs of others reproductive decisions.

Let the adults manage themselves,no problems at all but the toll on children is just what I find unacceptable.

LewsTherin:
Even Jesus, whether you believe He is God, a god, a prophet, a great teacher, whichever, even Jesus said "the poor will always be with us"

Even in a poor remote village, there are still people there considered poor by others who themselves admit they are poor.

So should those who are poor not aspire to something? Anything? Should they not hope that by getting married they would be able to achieve....something? That something may not be clear, may not even make sense to you and I, but it is all they can hope for. Afterall, hope without which, men die.

Should they not aspire to getting....something, anything, in their state of despair and hopelessness? Even if only the love and companionship of yet another person who may just be as poor or even poorer than them?

Should they be denied the hope that maybe their children would be able to break the cycle of poverty they have found themselves in? And be kept from having children because they are poor and in a cycle of poverty?

To quote Gandalf, "even the wise cannot see all ends"

I have a question though. How "comfortable", how "stable", how much in earnings can be considered as enough to go ahead to get married and not be considered as too poor for marriage?

First of all, I agree that there will always be (relatively) poor people. And I agree that they should aspire to something but not to anything at all cost. I also agree that marriage could be one way of alleviating their situation because a spouse can offer great comfort and even practical support. Everyone deserves to be loved and nobody should be denied the warmth of a relationship/marriage. I agree with all of it.

Where I disagree is that they should have children and hope that there children will be their way out of poverty. What makes a poor man think that his children will be able to achieve what he hasn't been able to achieve considering the fact that he has no means of providing them with a conducive environment to making it out of poverty? Will he be able to at least give them the necessary education opportunities and support?

I find it very selfish to bring children into this world and place the burden on them to live life on your own terms and in your own selfish interest. I know this is the Nigerian way because the pension funds are unstable and unreliable and this is where I agree with the OP that the system must change. Children should be able to strive and achieve autonomy and not carry the burden of saving their families. Children are not their parents' properties and should be allowed at some stage to find their own path instead of having to fulfill what their parents have failed to.

How many children slave in someone else's family to feed their parents and siblings watching the children of the family they are working for living the good life? How many children are abused in such arrangements? Childhood is a very short period in every person's life and should be protected.

I am not saying that poor people should not have children at all. This attitude led the former Prime Minister of India (Indira Gandhi) to human rights violations. She ordered the authorities to force sterilization on the poor population. This is a very dangerous and unfair attitude but even a poor man or woman should be reasonable enough to consider their children's well-being first and foremost.

NerdyRudeGyal:
Nigerians do treat "marriage and procreation as one and the same". Telling Nigerians not to have kids or to control the number after getting married isn't a bad idea, but it would be a futile effort b|c most Nigerians get married with the intention of having kids, love sex, believe in the idea that babies bring blessings, may face pressure from relatives to have kids/more kids/a male child, etc. There was one thread I was reading last week in which a NLder was seeking financial assistance to pay for her hospital bills, buy medicine ('drugs') and baby things. When another NLder asked why she and the spouse didn't wait until they were financially-capable to have a second child her exact reply is that having one child is like being barren. I can't write yoruba well but I recall she used the word "agon" (barren woman) and knew what that meant after watching a Nollywood movie with that title last year, starring Mercy Aigbe. Who knew having only one child is synonymous to being barren? So, while your suggestion is quite good, I doubt the feasibility in Nigeria. I suppose urging people to have enough money/savings before getting married or at least sit down and create a budget if they know they'll be having a child soon after getting married (hospital costs, food, baby things, etc, should be considered) might work. But iunno. It's hard to advice Nigerians, lol.

Over here, you can have as many kids as you want without paying a dime (no hospital costs or whatever). Parents even receive monthly tax-free benefits from the gov't for having a child. Yet, even with all the free stuff available (healthcare, education, money, etc), I don't see people having too many kids. In fact, what you've suggested is what I've seen here - people getting married and deciding not to have kids, or controlling the number (one or two kids max). I know one couple who have been married for 3 years and are yet to have a child, not because they can't afford to or they've to worry about hospital, schooling, etc - as these things are free, but according to them, they're not ready to have any child b|c they want to travel the world first (they take several vacations every year). People should simply make the best decision for themselves and live their life as they deem fit, I guess.

I enjoyed reading your post. I know how Nigerians 'reason' though the word 'reason' is totally out of place here. They are and will continue paying the price for their irrational thinking and behavior.

cococandy:
This was at the tip of my tongue.
I don’t know why more people don’t get married and keep child bearing at bay until they can afford it.
We should normalize having children ONLY when we can cater for them. Kids are a huge responsibility in marriage.

Imagine if two poor people got married and decide to wait a few years before kids, then no one has to sit at home wait for the struggles of the other to feed the family. Maybe they can both hustle together to save for when they start having children. If they have no food to eat on certain days, it will be more bearable because there are no teary eyed kids waiting helplessly for food.

All that rush to bring children into suffering. I don’t get it.

I guess one reason is that Nigerians like to quote the Bible instead of using their brains to reason logically.

poiunt:
I totally disagree.

Every Fortune was started by a poor person.... even those who were born in wealth, their poor grand father started it all.

Only a human can change his so called destiny.

People get rich, average and poor because they want

People lose and get money because of their lifestyle.

To be rich is hard but how many people are willing to give that sacrifice to become rich

@bolded oh really??

Its okay to disagree though.

NoToPile:
@bolded oh really??

Its okay to disagree though.

Yes, all fortunes were all created by formerly poor men

Nobody was born rich

Riches are created by men

poiunt:
Yes, all fortunes were all created by formerly poor men

Nobody was born rich

Riches are created by men

William and Harry weren't born poor. They were born into a rich royal family. So was their father and their grandmother and their great-grandfather. You get the point. Extreme wealth is more often inherited than made. Most people who make in life had at least some opportunities right from the start, e.g. access to education.
People who make it from poverty to wealth are the exception, not the rule.
Some people lost their businesses due to the pandemic, not because of their lifestyle.
Between rich and poor there is something called the middle class. It's not all black and white.

Hathor5:
William and Harry weren't born poor. They were born into a rich royal family. So was their father and their grandmother and their great-grandfather. You get the point. Extreme wealth is more often inherited than made. Most people who make in life had at least some opportunities right from the start, e.g. access to education.
People who make it from poverty to wealth are the exception, not the rule.
Some people lost their businesses due to the pandemic, not because of their lifestyle.
Between rich and poor there is something called the middle class. It's not all black and white.

I think you missed my point.

William and harry ancestors were commoners, a bold person in his ancestry lines started the organisation of the community that lead to the monarchy, also intermarriages between different monarchy sustained it.

As i wrote earlier, Every wealth was once started by a poor man who wanted better.

Even those born into wealth, Somebody who was poor in the family started creating the wealth

poiunt:
Money does not have any wing nor does it fly away.

The only way people get broke easily is living above their means, bad investments and also no saving.

@bold:

I know right.

That's why people who were well off before the pandemic suddenly went under.

The Hospitality sector right now is bleeding. Same with the Aviation sector.

Things happen.

bukatyne:
@Bold:

I told a poster on another thread that money has wings and can fly.

She asked how?

Peeps need to look around more.

Her ilks are numerous; you see them yarning trash and permulating effective planning from convenience POV while negating constancy of change and indisputable importance of grit. They wittingly or unwittingly forget that less than 5 percent of the world population are gold collar workers thereby leaving a huge chunk on survival based on unspoken neutrality, of which grit, couple with grace and definiteness of purpose, always reigns supreme on every game of neutrality.

Too much information with little knowledge has made it difficult for most people to know and understand that the world economy runs on quasi-informal system where grit, not some nonsense planned/fixed formal or informal acquired knowledge which makes good sense on glossing, is the indisputable commander.

First and last steps of economic emancipation lie on grit, not just neither money nor skill, because it comes in total package and the best motivator of grit is he/she who believes in the genius of your conviction with or without success in sight.

One's grit motivator is his/her MVP/MVE. Marriage like the one the person under discussion has, or his wife or offspring, could be his own grit motivator, so no one should cast aspersions on him.

I still don't think getting married and having kids in an uncompleted building should be encouraged. If a man cannot provide basic shelter for his family, why get married?

There's no competition in getting married. He doesn't have to have it all. However, he should have the basics.

bukatyne:
@bold:

I know right.

That's why people who were well off before the pandemic suddenly went under.

The Hospitality sector right now is bleeding. Same with the Aviation sector.

Things happen.

You mean the middle class.... even among the middle class, those with investments and emergency savings were afloat during the crisis

not to talk about the Nigerian wealthy that hedge all their funds in dollars and real estate

LordKO:
Her ilks are numerous; you see them yarning trash and permulating effective planning from convenience POV while negating constancy of change and indisputable importance of grit. They wittingly or unwittingly forget that less than 5 percent of the world population are gold collar workers thereby leaving huge chunk on survival based on unspoken neutrality, of which grit, couple with grace and definiteness of purpose, always reigns supreme on every game of neutrality.

Too much information with little knowledge has made it difficult for most people to know and understand that the world economy runs on quasi-informal system where grit, not some nonsense planned/fixed formal or informal acquired knowledge which makes good sense on glossing, is the indisputable commander.

First and last steps of economic emancipation lie on grit, not just neither money nor skill, because it comes in total package and the best motivator of grit is he/she who believes in the genius of your conviction with or without success in sight.

One's grit motivator is his/her MVP/MVE. Marriage like the one the person under discussion has, or his wife or offspring, could be his own grit motivator, so no one should cast aspersions on him.

Reality check - Without cash you can not make cash neither can you emancipate yourself financially.

Anyway, every man for himself and way of thinking...i wont criticize whatever anybody believes.

poiunt:
I think you missed my point.

William and harry ancestors were commoners, a bold person in his ancestry lines started the organisation of the community that lead to the monarchy, also intermarriages between different monarchy sustained it.

As i wrote earlier, Every wealth was once started by a poor man who wanted better.

Even those born into wealth, Somebody who was poor in the family started creating the wealth

Believe whatever you want to believe. Statistics show that it is very rare and very hard to make it from rags to riches.

Hathor5:
Believe whatever you want to believe. Statistics show that it is very rare and very hard to make it from rags to riches.

Which statistics.

Anybody that want to create wealth do not go about looking for statistics, they just do it and sacrifice their time and resources in the pursuit of it.

People that will create wealth, will create wealth.

That is life for you.

Only the risk taker succed

poiunt:
Reality check - Without cash you can not make cash neither can you emancipate yourself financially.

Anyway, every man for himself and way of thinking...i wont criticize whatever anybody believes.

One thing with conceited people like you is that you illusorily know everything but understand nothing; I didn't negate the importance of money in my post.

LordKO:
One thing with conceited people like you is that you illusorily know everything but understand nothing; I didn't negate the importance of money in my post.

Men! You are really a interesting fellow.

How am I a conceited person? I guess because I gave an opinion.

It is a pity. With all the grammar you've written through out this thread, i was thinking i was having a discussion with someone who is reasonable.

Anyway..i am disappointed.

What many people don't know is that once you become rich you have made a lot of people in your society poor, the law of economics will always stand.