₦airaland Forum

franklytrue:
You would focus on one and leave the other? Half truth is a lie. Or does your JW book not touch on that? The literal becomes figurative when it does not suit Russell's false teaching
The problem is that your organisation have translated the scriptures falsely and given you a false version. May God help you all.

Why not leave Russel and organization out of this, so we can face the issue at hand?
Are you ready to know that Elijah didn't go up to heaven or not?

DappaD:
Agreed, there's nothing impossible for Jehovah God to do. But He has standards he sets himself and his subjects so he doesn't go above or below that standard.

The highlighted though, caught my attention. Jesus was resurrected with a spirit body, not a physical body. He ascended into heaven with a spirit body. (1Corinthians 15:42-44, 1Timothy 3:16, 1Peter 3:18)

Spirit body that ate food? One that the disciples could see and touch, even Thomas?
So where did the physical body go? And that of Elijah and Enoch?

DappaD:
Why not leave Russel and organization out of this, so we can face the issue at hand?
Are you ready to know that Elijah didn't go up to heaven or not?

Say on

franklytrue:
Spirit body that ate food? One that the disciples could see and touch, even Thomas?
So where did the physical body go? And that of Elijah and Enoch?

We are coming to that.
Are angels spirit bodies or not?
If you believe they are, you can see at Genesis 18:1-8 that angels who materialised into human bodies actually did eat food prepared by Abraham. Look at verse 8 especially.

franklytrue:
Say on

Let's make this an interactive discussion.
First of all, who was the king of northern Israel at the time Elijah was a prophet? And in whose reign did he cease being a prophet for northern Israel?

DappaD:
We are coming to that.
Are angels spirit bodies or not?
If you believe they are, you can see at Genesis 18:1-8 that angels who materialised into human bodies actually did eat food prepared by Abraham. Look at verse 8 especially.

So why is so hard for you to understand that God can dematerialise bodies too and take them to heaven. Is it impossible for Him?

franklytrue:
So why is so hard for you to understand that God can dematerialise bodies too and take them to heaven. Is it impossible for Him?

Lol. We are following a pattern here.
Can you open your Bible and check 1Corinthians 15:44, 1Timothy 3:16 and 1Peter 3:18, let's see the body Jesus resurrected with.

DappaD:
Let's make this an interactive discussion.
First of all, who was the king of northern Israel at the time Elijah was a prophet? And in whose reign did he cease being a prophet for northern Israel?

I would have to start checking chronology but Ahab and Jezebel were reigning at that time in one of the kingdoms of Isreal

DappaD:
Lol. We are following a pattern here.
Can you open your Bible and check 1Corinthians 15:44, 1Timothy 3:16 and 1Peter 3:18, let's see the body Jesus resurrected with.

1 Corinthians 15:42-44 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:
It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:
It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

1 Timothy 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

1 Peter 3:18-19 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:
By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;

franklytrue:
See how you guys are just explaining the scriptures away, believing and speaking lies.
They told God frankly 'No you can't do that', etc, that that was an impossible thing for God to do?

You are meditating and getting false inspiration that is not from God.

Well, it is impossible for the 'God' you have formed in your mind but not the Living God, the Maker of the heavens and the earth. Is anything too hard for Him? (Jeremiah 32: 17, 27)

So Enoch had the scriptures then at the Genesis that he was READING , STUDYING and MEDITATING on? Elijah may have had some scriptures in his days but not all.

So where did they go to? Where are their bodies? And most importantly, don't skip this: what about Jesus who ascended into heaven with a resurrected body? Was that not true or was it too hard for God to do?

Now concerning being born again, (for which I don't think you understand well or have had the real experience of) that means when a person is born again, he is now made worthy to enter heaven when he dies, isn't it?

What Jesus meant about John the baptist was that the least person in heaven presently is greater than how John was then on earth. Heaven is a place full of glory and power. The least person there is greater in power, ability and authority than John (who had a special mission and was empowered for it) in his human form, in so much that if they were to come to the earth in that state, they would be worshipped as gods.

It's OK you can continue worshiping your God!

franklytrue:
I would have to start checking chronology but Ahab and Jezebel were reigning at that time in one of the kingdoms of Isreal

Well yes that's correct, it's Bible chronology that will enable us to understand why Elijah wasn't taken up to heaven.
Elijah lived through the reigns of King Ahab and King Ahaziah(King Ahab's son). He saw the death of these two kings and the installment of King Jehoram(King Ahab's son/King Ahaziah's brother). This is for the northern kingdom of Israel. (about 940 – 920B.C.E)

The appointment of Elisha as a prophet by Elijah was around the year 919B.C.E, that is, shortly after the death of King Ahaziah and installment of King Jehoram as king of northern Israel.
Shortly after that, Elijah was taken up “to the heavens in a windstorm” . — 2Kings 2:1,11.
But here is where it becomes tricky, this doesn't mean that Elijah was taken up to the spiritual heavens.
The Bible makes it clear that there are different types of ‘Heavens’.
1. The dwelling place of Jehovah God and his army of angelic creatures, that is in the invisible spirit realm. — Deuteronomy 26:15, 1Kings 8:43, Psalm 11:4
2. The expanse above the earth, that which we can call the firmament or sky – Genesis 1:8

So all Scriptural evidence show that Elijah was carried by the windstorm into the physical heavens(see Number 2 above) to another location on earth for a continued prophetic assignment.

How do we know this is true?

Well, after some number of years(for about a period of 6years after the windstorm episode), in the year 913B.C.E, when King Jehoram(King Jehoshaphat's son) became king in the southern kingdom of Judah, Elijah was still alive and active as a prophet. King Jehoram of Judah had done bad things in Jehovah's eyes, so Elijah who was still alive at that time wrote him a letter showing Jehovah's disapproval and judgment, which was fulfilled immediately. – 2Chronicles 21:12-15


I advise you read carefully and digest before making any comments.


NOTE:

Israel and Judah are two separate kingdoms.
Jehoram, son of Ahab and Jehoram, son of Jehoshaphat are two different people.

franklytrue:
1 Corinthians 15:42-44 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:
It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:
It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

1 Timothy 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God He [Jesus] was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit , seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

1 Peter 3:18-19 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:
By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;

Focusing on the words in bold, what does that say concerning the resurrection of Jesus?

DappaD:
Focusing on the words in bold, what does that say concerning the resurrection of Jesus?

Concerning resurrection: sown a natural body...raised a spiritual body.
That is for bodies that were buried in the ground and become decayed/disintegrated.

Note, Christ's body was not buried inside the soil but kept in a sepulchre. It did not decay like the normal dead bodies. It stayed for less than three full days first before it was resurrected; that same body and not another. His body was quickened (made alive) by the Spirit of God.

Remember Jesus said he has the power to lay down his life and to take it up again. He also told the Jews to destroy this temple (referring to his body) and he will raise it up again. That he has done because he himself, as part of the Godhead (one with the Father), is the resurrection and the life. (John 2:19-22, ch 10:17-18, ch 11:25)

Christ is much greater than you have ever known. He is not just a teacher or prophet. He is the Word of God made flesh. And that same Word is God (John ch 1:1-14, 1 Tim 3:16); the Word that made the worlds (Heb ch 1:2, ch 11:3).
He, who was before Abraham, took upon himself the form of a man and was made in the likeness of man and became obedient unto death even the death of the cross. He is now exalted. A body that did not result through the normal process of procreation was prepared for him, The Mighty God, The everlasting Father (Philippians 2: 6-11, Heb. 10:5, Isaiah 9:6).

Now unto him, God, Who was manifest in the flesh, has all authority in heaven and on earth being given, and He is the heir of all things (John 5:21-27, Matt 28:18, Col 1:16-19, 1 Pet. 3:22, Rev. 5:13, ch 22:12-13, 1 Cor. 1:24, Heb. 1:2)

He, the living Word of God, who is ordained to be the judge of the living and the dead, has spoken and said that He is coming back again. His words are spirit and they are life. In His Father's house are many mansion. He will come again very soon to take His pure bride home for the marriage supper of the Lamb and other things follow after that unto eternity (Acts 10: 42, ch 1:11, ch 17:3, Romans 2:16, ch 14:10, 2 Tim. 4:1, Rev. 19:11, John 6: 63, ch 14:1-3, Rev. 19:9)

franklytrue:
Concerning resurrection: sown a natural body...raised a spiritual body.
That is for bodies that were buried in the ground and become decayed/disintegrated.

Note, Christ's body was not buried inside the soil but kept in a sepulchre. It did not decay like the normal dead bodies. It stayed for less than three full days first before it was resurrected; that same body and not another. His body was quickened (made alive) by the Spirit of God.

Remember Jesus said he has the power to lay down his life and to take it up again. He also told the Jews to destroy this temple (referring to his body) and he will raise it up again. That he has done because he himself, as part of the Godhead (one with the Father), is the resurrection and the life. (John 2:19-22, ch 10:17-18, ch 11:25)

Christ is much greater than you have ever known. He is not just a teacher or prophet. He is the Word of God made flesh. And that same Word is God (John ch 1:1-14, 1 Tim 3:16); the Word that made the worlds (Heb ch 1:2, ch 11:3).
He, who was before Abraham, took upon himself the form of a man and was made in the likeness of flesh and became obedient unto death even the death of the cross. He is now exalted. A body that did not result through the normal process of procreation was prepared for him, The Mighty God, The everlasting Father (Philippians 2: 6-11, Heb. 10:5, Isaiah 9:6).

Now unto him, God, Who was manifest in the flesh, has all authority in heaven and on earth being given, and He is the heir of all things (John 5:21-27, Matt 28:18, Col 1:16-19, 1 Pet. 3:22, Rev. 5:13, ch 22:12-13, 1 Cor. 1:24, Heb. 1:2)

He, the living Word of God, who is ordained to be the judge of the living and the dead, has spoken and said that He is coming back again. His words are spirit and they are life. In His Father's house are many mansion. He will come again very soon to take His pure bride home for the marriage supper of the Lamb and other things follow after that unto eternity (Acts 10: 42, ch 1:11, ch 17:3, Romans 2:16, ch 14:10, 2 Tim. 4:1, Rev. 19:11, John 6: 63, ch 14:1-3, Rev. 19:9)

That's why I first asked you if you're a Trinitarian! Seems you don't know your identity.

All your claims are actually false, since you can't point to a single Scripture that said Jesus resurrected with his physical body.

Enough of that now, I'd like to see how you pan out the account of Elijah now.

DappaD:
That's why I first asked you if you're a Trinitarian! Seems you don't know your identity.

All your claims are actually false, since you can't point to a single Scripture that said Jesus resurrected with his physical body.

Enough of that now, I'd like to see how you pan out the account of Elijah now.

All these bible claims are false? That which you have not taken the time to search out as a wise 'Berean' of the book of Acts 17. Full well the scriptures speak of such people as you.

2 Timothy 3:5-9 'Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts,
Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.
Now as Jannes and Jambres withstood Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, reprobate concerning the faith.
But they shall proceed no further: for their folly shall be manifest unto all men, as theirs also was.'

I have nothing much to discuss with you since you deny the greatness and power of the God and His only begotten Son, whom you claim to be his witness. False witnesses you all are with the scriptures you have twisted and erroneously edited as your bible because you know not the God you call upon, only head knowledge of. For half truth and selected, is falsehood and deception (1 Timothy 4:1-2).

And my identity now is, Christ in me the hope of glory. Pray that it will be yours also, and that you perish not when you take the Word of God lightly and focus only on what you want and not the whole counsel of God (Revelation 22:10-20).

franklytrue:
All these bible claims are false? That which you have not taken the time to search out as a wise 'Berean' of the book of Acts 17. Full well the scriptures speak of such people as you.

2 Timothy 3:5-9 'Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts,
Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.
Now as Jannes and Jambres withstood Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, reprobate concerning the faith.
But they shall proceed no further: for their folly shall be manifest unto all men, as theirs also was.'

I have nothing much to discuss with you since you deny the greatness and power of the God and His only begotten Son, whom you claim to be his witness. False witnesses you all are with the scriptures you have twisted and erroneously edited as your bible because you know not the God you call upon, only head knowledge of. For half truth and selected, is falsehood and deception (1 Timothy 4:1-2).

And my identity now is, Christ in me the hope of glory. Pray that it will be yours also, and that you perish not when you take the Word of God lightly and focus only on what you want and not the whole counsel of God (Revelation 22:10-20).

Lol I care less about who you think I am
Can you provide a rebuttal for what I've said concerning Elijah's account or you'll be like the usual churchgoer and say ‘All I know is that Elijah went to heaven I don't want to talk about it’ ?

DappaD:
Lol I care less about who you think I am
Can you provide a rebuttal for what I've said concerning Elijah's account or you'll be like the usual churchgoer and say ‘All I know is that Elijah went to heaven I don't want to talk about it’ ?

It is not about what I think about you but what God sees and think about you which is less than what you have esteemed yourself to be.

These two persons who have not died physically, Enoch and Elijah, are possibly the two prophets that will prophesy in Israel, in a short time to come, for 1260 days clothed in sack clothes. (Revelation 11:1-12)
Understanding that there are heavens, even spiritual heavens, these two are stationed in that which is not the main heaven where the throne of God is because they are not completely spirits yet -they have not physically died. In time to come, they will be sent to fulfil their mandate (finish their testimony) and the good and righteous God who will not kill His own, will allow them to be killed by the beast and after three and a half days, the Spirit of Life from God will enter into them and they will be invited and will ascend into heaven in the sight of their enemies just like Jesus did.

Exmilitant:
and you belief that?

YES!

Amotolongbo:


What is this low life breathing maggot saying?

As if it understands and recognizes what sense is

Thunder strike your papa there
Idiot.

Just a tool created to keep people in check..

CalvinGaye:
Thunder strike your papa there
Idiot.

Spoken like a typical low self-confidence piece of fart!

Indulge yourself, a faceless medium is the only place where you would have the balls to insult people who are way better than you!