raymondFirstborn:

I added a percentage to the unit cost of the Windows.8% in this case.

raymondFirstborn:


I added a percentage to the unit cost of the Windows.8% in this case.

raymondFirstborn:




Hajji @Mufutau55
Everyone knows Contractors add percentages to building Cost , and it doesn't have to be stated what percentage was added.
@haaa if you don't know, then you need a tendering and Estimating (QUS202) lecture.
Moreover total funds I received was N1,057,000.
My fabricator got 980,000. Which is a difference of N77,000.

My fee removed was N77,000.
@haaa you should be able to confirm the above stated.
@haaa. So if I you are sending a client a quotation for a contract you would indicate in the contract document what your percentage for overhead is?

@haaa you should get your facts right, the fabricator requested for extra 80k because price of materials between July to September had increased. Moreover the client made payments in two installments, if we had gotten the money for the windows at once , materials would have been purchased at once.

I won't be surprised if @haaa is the clients relative.

So @haaa you are saying that an engineer is wrong for adding his percentage for supervision.

@haaa do you even know what a contract is? And the elements that make contract valid.

raymondFirstborn:

I still believe you are the client relative

You still don't understand what a contract is.
When you do come and let's talk.

You dont know that when a client gives an engineer money to supply and install Windows , and there's written agreement that it is a contract?

So when you give someone money to supply and install doors ? What do you call that.

If I were you , I would go on the internet and do a research on contracts.

haaa:
I CANNOT CONTROL WHAT YOU THINK OR BELIEVE. IT IS OKAY IF YOU THINK I AM, BUT I AM SURE IF I WAS, THEN ALL THIS YOU ARE SAYING, YOU WONT DARE TO SAY IT BECAUSE I WOULD HAVE TEA TO SPILL HERE.

YOU ARE RIGHT, ITS ONE FORM OF A CONTRACT TO AGREES TO WHAT YOU WANT TO BUY OR SELL. BUT TELL ME, WHY WILL YOU AS AN ENGINEER GO BACK TO ASK FOR ADDITIONAL 80K? IS THAT PART OF YOUR CONTRACT YOU SIGNED WITH THE CLIENT? THE PROBLEM IS THAT, WHEN SIGNED A LEGALLY BINDING DOCUMENT CONTRACT, THERE IS NO ROOMS FOR ASKING MORE MONEY UNLESS ITS WRITTEN IN THE CONTRACT OTHERWISE. THAT IS THE CONTRACT, I AM TALKING ABOUT.

YOU SOUND VERY RUDE, YOU KNOW WHY? I AM A NAIRALANDER THAT LOOKS AROUND HERE MORE OFTEN, AND INSTEAD OF YOU TO EXPLAIN YOURSELF, YOU ARE BEING DEFENSIVE.

NOW THAT I UNDERSTAND WHAT A CONTRACT MEANS, ARE YOU READY TO POST THE WINDOW QUOTATION YOU SENT TO YOUR CLIENT?

raymondFirstborn:


If you understand what a contract is, then you should understand what "fluctuation in a building contract is".

Won't be giving any more responses.

haaa:
NOW YOU ARE BRINGING BOOKS INTO IT BUT IN THE FIELD YOU ARE MAKING AND DOING ERRORS. ANYONE CAN PASS THROUGH SCHOOL, BUT ANYONE CANNOT DO THE FIELD WORK. THE FIELD WORK IS DIFFERENT FROM ALL WHAT YOU ARE SAYING.

THE INFUCTUATION IN A BUILDING CONTRACT IS VOID ONLY IF ITS NOTED OR WRITTEN IN THE CONTRACT. YOU ARE NOT MAKING SENSE HERE. TO CROWN ALL YOUR ARGUEMENT INSTEAD OF QUOTING DEFINITIONS, WHY CANT WE SEE YOUR WINDOW QUOTATION CONTRACT THAT YOU SENT TO YOUR CLIENT OR ANYWHERE YOU TOLD YOU CLIENT THAT TOTAL PRICE COULD BE CHANGED DUE TO DATED MARKET VALUE.

I WILL STOP RESPONDING TO YOU IF YOU CANNOT SHOW US THE WINDOW QUOTATIONS. IF YOU CANT, THEN I SEE REASON WHY THE CLIENT IS UPSET.

haaa:
WHICH CUT? ANYWAY, PLEASE KEEP THE SAME ENERGY WHEN I GET MY HANDS ON THAT WINDOW QUOTATION. I WILL DO EVERYTHING IN MY POWER TO GET IT. THE MAIN POINT HERE IS TO JUSTIFY REASON WHY YOU REMOVED ENGINEER MONEY OFF THE WINDOW QUOTATION WHEN IT SHOULD NOT BE SO.

raymondFirstborn:


Even if you get the quotation and post , it still won't take away the fact that I and the client agreed on 1,057,000, which is the total amount I received.

And you would still not understand how I added my percentage to the unit cost. That's the difference between a building professional and a layman.

When you buy a bag of cement from DANGOTE, does he tell you the percentage of profit he makes from one bag .

If I am you , I would get a job.

1TED:
@Haaa, I negotiated with a window fabricator to do a certain quantity and quality for me. Fabricator agreed 980k total. I sent an invoice of 1,057m to client, client approved and agreed to pay twice. However, due to covid and bad economy, prices of aluminium went up and I pleaded with the client to review invoice by adding 80k to invoice, Please where as the engineer gone wrong? Cos i dnt get ur argument.

haaa:

@MUFUTAU55, BOSS THIS IS NOT GOING ANYWHERE. I AM JUST CURIOUS TO SEE WHY ANY CLIENTS WILL SAY THEY DO NOT NEED AN ENGINEER IN FINISHING LEVEL. I THINK WE ALL SHOULD BE TAKING ACCOUNTABILITY FOR EVERYTHING THAT WE DO. WE ALWAYS BLAME CLIENTS IN SUCH CASES.

THANK YOU @RAYMONDFIRSTBORN FOR LETTING US KNOW WHAT HAPPENED.

IRE OOO

Empresstilda:
@haaa

I don't see anything wrong with what
raymondfirstborn did. I am an architect, this is business. Just last week a client asked for the quotation of a kitchen cabinet, I asked my furniture guy to give me an estimate for the job.

When I got the Estimate from the furniture guy, I added my profit then I send the total cost to the client.
Mr @haaa that's business for you .

The engineer doesn't need to indicate that his fees are included.

Prudency045:

What then is the essence of a separate supervision fee? It is most times between 5%-15% of the total amount spent on the project. Depending on what the client and engineer agree on.

Prudency045:

What then is the essence of a separate supervision fee? It is most times between 5%-15% of the total amount spent on the project. Depending on what the client and engineer agree on.

mufutau55:
@raymondfirstborn

I do understand all your explanations... so I do not need to quote all your message in full.

Please read my reply to @haa post which I have explained things. Many ppl do not understand the meaning of "fees", so they need to be informed.
You have not done anything wrong by adding your Supervision fees which is normal practice. You have not committed any crime.
Prolonging some explanations may cause more problems. If the Client has problem with your cost, all he has to do is reject it and everyone goes their peaceful ways. You lose some, you win some. Thank you.

Hajji M.

mufutau55:


I can understand your curiousity which is normal.
It is wrong for Client to say they Engineers are not needed for finishing stage. Engineers or the Contractors are needed in every stage. But some Clients try to save Supervision cost by just hiring direct artisan for each stage, but the artisan can just do whatever they want when there is no professional supervision. So it's all about economy. Both have pros and cons.
The Clients can blame themselves not the Contractor/Engineer if the artisan did something wrong.

And also about the Windows... if the Contractor is supervising the project, he can add his fees to the cost of the window fabrication since he is going to supervise the installation and also make sure the windows are fabricated properly before accepting it. And if any problem arises, he can be held responsible.

Hopefully I have shed some light. Thank you.

Hajji M.

Empresstilda:


Your right@prudency045 , but in most of my small projects my clients usually want the percentage broken down into stages, could be the same in this case.


Mr @haaa 70k+ is peanut to be arguing over.

If I was the contractor I would have charged more. Who makes 70k+ from a project worth 1m+.

Empresstilda:
@haaa

I don't see anything wrong with what
raymondfirstborn did. I am an architect, this is business. Just last week a client asked for the quotation of a kitchen cabinet, I asked my furniture guy to give me an estimate for the job.

When I got the Estimate from the furniture guy, I added my profit then I send the total cost to the client.
Mr @haaa that's business for you .

The engineer doesn't need to indicate that his fees are included.

haaa:
@MUFUTAU55 THANK YOU FOR YOUR INSIGHT. AS YOU HAVE MENTIONED, MAYBE THEY DECIDED TO HIRE ARTISAN DIRECTLY, IN THIS CASE, I AM NOT SURE. WHAT I GATHERED IS THAT, THEY ARE NOT PLEASED WITH THE WAY THE ENGINEER HANDLED THAT STAGE. LET ME REPHRASE AGAIN, ACCORDING TO THEM, THE ENGINEER ALWAYS BREAKDOWN EACH STAGES THAT USUALLY INDICATES WHICH ONE IS FOR WHAT AND WHATNOT. PLEASE PAY ATTENTION TO THIS, IN THE WINDOW SITUATION, THE ENGINEER SENT A QUOTATION TO THE CLIENT SIGNED BY THE FABRICATOR WITH THE FABRICATOR HEADLINE. WHAT THAT MEANS IS THAT, THE QUOTATION PRICES OF EACH WINDOWS CAME DIRECTLY FROM THE FABRICATOR. NORMALLY, HOW THE ENGINEER USE TO DO IT, HE WILL MAKE HIS OWN BREAKDOWN, ADD HIS OWN SUPERVISION MONEY ON ANOTHER COLUMN TO INDICATE WHAT HE WILL BE CHARGING FOR HIS OWN FEE.

BUT IN THIS WINDOW CASE, ACCORDING TO THE SOURCE, THE CLIENT ONLY RECEIVED FABRICATOR BREAKDOWN. SO WHEN THEY ASKED FOR ADDITION MONEY, THE CLIENT REALIZED FROM THE FABRICATOR MOUTH THAT THE ENGINEER ONLY GAVE HIM 980K INSTEAD OF THE 1,057M THAT THE CLIENT RECEIVED.

SO AFTER THE CLIENT ASK THE ENGINEER, THAT WAS WHEN THE ENGINEER SAID THAT HE REMOVED HIS OWN SUPERVION MONEY OFF IT.

THE PROBLEM IS NOT THE ENGINEER TAKING SUPERVISION MONEY OUT, THE PROBLEM IS THE WAY THE MONEY GOT DEDUCTED. I BELIEVE THAT IS WHERE EVERYTHING WENT SOUTH.



DID the client ask for the engineers charge on the window work when they note it wasn't included in the quote sent or they assume he is doing it for free?
before you try to pull the engineer down, ask yourself n your source that question as well then come back here to answer us

haaa:
WHAT YOU DESCRIBED HERE IS TOTALLY DIFFERENT FROM THIS SITUATION BASED ON MY SOURCE EVEN THOUGH MR. RAYMONDFIRSTBORN CLAIMED I AM ONE OF THE RELATIVES WHICH IS NOT TRUE. ANYWAY, WHAT YOU SAID HERE IS NOT THE SAME.

YOU GOT A QUOTATION AND YOU ADDED YOUR OWN GAIN. THAT IS BUSINESS, BUT AS AN ARCHITECT, DURING THE KITCHEN CABINET LEVEL, YOU WILL STILL GET YOUR OWN SUPERVISION FEE FROM THE CLIENT FOR SURE BECAUSE WHAT YOU SAID ADDING YOUR OWN GAIN IS A BUSINESS BEING THE THIRD PARTY THAT NEGIOTIATED THE CARBINETS PRICE. SO IT IS DIFFERENT.

LETS SAY YOUR CLIENT WANTS YOU TO GET HIM APPLIANCES FOR THE KITCHEN CARBINETS, AND YOU SENT INVOICE THAT THE ELECTRONICS GUY SIGNED, THAT SAYS A FRIDGE COST 4K
HOOD 3K
GAS COOKER 5K
TRANSPORT 1K
TOTAL IS 13K

AND YOU GET IT SENT TO YOUR CLIENT AND THEY PAY IT. LATER ON, YOUR CLIENT FIGURED FROM THE ELECTRONIC STORE THAT YOU ONLY PAY 10K AFTER THE ELECTRONIC GUY DEMANDED FOR ADDITIONAL MONEY. AND WHEN YOUR CLIENT ASK YOU WHAT HAPPENED, YOU SAID YOU ONLY PAID 10K AND TOOK 3K OFF AS YOUR OWN SUPERVISION FEE.

WHY NOT JUST SAY I NEGOTIATED VERY WELL WITH THE GUY AND I MAKE 3K OFF IT. WONT THAT BE CLEAR AND SIMPLE? ESPECIALLY IF YOU ALWAYS INCLUDE YOUR SUPERVISION MONEY ON EVERY STAGES THAT THE CLIENT IS USED TO SUCH FORMAT. WHAT DO YOU THINK YOUR CLIENT WILL THINK?

haaa:
WHAT YOU DESCRIBED HERE IS TOTALLY DIFFERENT FROM THIS SITUATION BASED ON MY SOURCE EVEN THOUGH MR. RAYMONDFIRSTBORN CLAIMED I AM ONE OF THE RELATIVES WHICH IS NOT TRUE. ANYWAY, WHAT YOU SAID HERE IS NOT THE SAME.

YOU GOT A QUOTATION AND YOU ADDED YOUR OWN GAIN. THAT IS BUSINESS, BUT AS AN ARCHITECT, DURING THE KITCHEN CABINET LEVEL, YOU WILL STILL GET YOUR OWN SUPERVISION FEE FROM THE CLIENT FOR SURE BECAUSE WHAT YOU SAID ADDING YOUR OWN GAIN IS A BUSINESS BEING THE THIRD PARTY THAT NEGIOTIATED THE CARBINETS PRICE. SO IT IS DIFFERENT.

LETS SAY YOUR CLIENT WANTS YOU TO GET HIM APPLIANCES FOR THE KITCHEN CARBINETS, AND YOU SENT INVOICE THAT THE ELECTRONICS GUY SIGNED, THAT SAYS A FRIDGE COST 4K
HOOD 3K
GAS COOKER 5K
TRANSPORT 1K
TOTAL IS 13K

AND YOU GET IT SENT TO YOUR CLIENT AND THEY PAY IT. LATER ON, YOUR CLIENT FIGURED FROM THE ELECTRONIC STORE THAT YOU ONLY PAY 10K AFTER THE ELECTRONIC GUY DEMANDED FOR ADDITIONAL MONEY. AND WHEN YOUR CLIENT ASK YOU WHAT HAPPENED, YOU SAID YOU ONLY PAID 10K AND TOOK 3K OFF AS YOUR OWN SUPERVISION FEE.

WHY NOT JUST SAY I NEGOTIATED VERY WELL WITH THE GUY AND I MAKE 3K OFF IT. WONT THAT BE CLEAR AND SIMPLE? ESPECIALLY IF YOU ALWAYS INCLUDE YOUR SUPERVISION MONEY ON EVERY STAGES THAT THE CLIENT IS USED TO SUCH FORMAT. WHAT DO YOU THINK YOUR CLIENT WILL THINK?

haaa:
WHAT YOU DESCRIBED HERE IS TOTALLY DIFFERENT FROM THIS SITUATION BASED ON MY SOURCE EVEN THOUGH MR. RAYMONDFIRSTBORN CLAIMED I AM ONE OF THE RELATIVES WHICH IS NOT TRUE. ANYWAY, WHAT YOU SAID HERE IS NOT THE SAME.

YOU GOT A QUOTATION AND YOU ADDED YOUR OWN GAIN. THAT IS BUSINESS, BUT AS AN ARCHITECT, DURING THE KITCHEN CABINET LEVEL, YOU WILL STILL GET YOUR OWN SUPERVISION FEE FROM THE CLIENT FOR SURE BECAUSE WHAT YOU SAID ADDING YOUR OWN GAIN IS A BUSINESS BEING THE THIRD PARTY THAT NEGIOTIATED THE CARBINETS PRICE. SO IT IS DIFFERENT.

LETS SAY YOUR CLIENT WANTS YOU TO GET HIM APPLIANCES FOR THE KITCHEN CARBINETS, AND YOU SENT INVOICE THAT THE ELECTRONICS GUY SIGNED, THAT SAYS A FRIDGE COST 4K
HOOD 3K
GAS COOKER 5K
TRANSPORT 1K
TOTAL IS 13K

AND YOU GET IT SENT TO YOUR CLIENT AND THEY PAY IT. LATER ON, YOUR CLIENT FIGURED FROM THE ELECTRONIC STORE THAT YOU ONLY PAY 10K AFTER THE ELECTRONIC GUY DEMANDED FOR ADDITIONAL MONEY. AND WHEN YOUR CLIENT ASK YOU WHAT HAPPENED, YOU SAID YOU ONLY PAID 10K AND TOOK 3K OFF AS YOUR OWN SUPERVISION FEE.

WHY NOT JUST SAY I NEGOTIATED VERY WELL WITH THE GUY AND I MAKE 3K OFF IT. WONT THAT BE CLEAR AND SIMPLE? ESPECIALLY IF YOU ALWAYS INCLUDE YOUR SUPERVISION MONEY ON EVERY STAGES THAT THE CLIENT IS USED TO SUCH FORMAT. WHAT DO YOU THINK YOUR CLIENT WILL THINK?

haaa:
@EMPRESSTILDA THIS IS NOT A MATTER OF BEEN PEANUT MONEY OR GOLD MONEY. SOME PEOPLE DO HAVE PRINCIPLE, AND TRANSPARENCY IS SOME BEST WAY TO GO ABOUT LIFE. PEANUTS OR NOT, SOME PEOPLE VALUE TRUST REGARDLESS OF THE PRICE. TO YOU THAT MIGHT BE PEANUT, BUT TO SOME PEOPLE, IT MIGHT BE WHAT THEY MAKE IN A WHOLE YEAR.

I WILL LIKE TO ASK YOU, WHAT DO YOU WANT TO MAKE ON WINDOWS WORTH 980K? SO MAKING 70K+ IS NOT ENOUGH ON JUST THE WINDOW?

Empresstilda:


Dude.
This has nothing to do with transparency.

And yes 70k+ is peanuts for an engineer. It seems poverty has clouded your way of thinking, so you think 70k is a lot of money. You should make enquires , the least most engineers charge is 150k. The client is lucky to have some one charge him so little.

peace

Please don't quote me.

guysmilee134:



Transparency is lacking everywhere in Nigeria. Which is making everything damn expensive because we all want to make money from every damn thing. If I was the client also I would have trust issues and probably stop.
We as clients too should understand that the professionals are there for a reason and we should not undermine their professional fees, likewise the professionals should not see everything as a money making venture. Be contented with your professional fees and make the best out of your job.