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Construction Of A Four Bedroom Duplex. Ipaja, Lagos - Properties (10) - Nairaland

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Re: Construction Of A Four Bedroom Duplex. Ipaja, Lagos by mufutau55(m): 12:27am On Oct 16
raymondFirstborn:

I added a percentage to the unit cost of the Windows.8% in this case.

I am keenly following to see where all these is going.
Thanks.

Hajji M.
Re: Construction Of A Four Bedroom Duplex. Ipaja, Lagos by haaa: 6:28am On Oct 16
THX FOR PROVIDING THIS INFO. HOWEVER, ADDING PERCENTAGE TO TGE UNIT COST OF THE WINDOW IN WHAT WAY? BECAUSE I WAS TOLD THAT THE RELATIVES AND THE CLIENT WAS UPSET WITH IT. THIS IS THE INFO THAT I GATHERED:

THAT YOU PROVIDED QUOTATIONS SIGNED BY THE WINDOW INSTALLER PERSON. ON THE LIST, NUMBERS AND SIZES OF THE WINDOWS NEEDED WAS CALCULATED BY EACH. FOR INSTANCE, 4 UNITS 1500X4000 AT 55,000K PER UNIT. THEN TOTALLED EVERYTHING. BASED ON THE INFO GATHERED, THERE WAS NO WHERE IN THE QUOTATION THAT SAYS ADDITIONAL PERCENTAGE FOR ENGINEER SUPERVISION ADDED. AFTER THE CLIENT PAID EVERYTHING, THE RELATIVES THEN GOT A MESSAGE THAT THE WINDOW INSTALLER DEMANDED FOR ADDITIONAL 80,000K BECAUSE OF THE INCREASE IN MATERIALS (AS YOU HAVE SAID BEFORE IN YOUR PREVIOUS POSTS). ONCE THE RELATIVE WAS ABLE TO SPEAK WITH THE WINDOW INSTALLER PERSON, THAT WAS WHEN THE CLIENT DISCOVERED THAT THE TOTAL AMOUNT PAID FOR THE WINDOWS WAS NOT WHAT THE WINDOW GUY GOT. ACCORDING TO MY SOURCE, THE WINDOE GUY RECIEVED WAY LESSER THAN WHAT THE CLIENT PAID, AND THAT WAS WHY THE WINDOW GUY REQUESTED FOR MORE MONEY BEFORE WHAT HE GOT PAID BY @RAYMONDFIRSTBORN WAS NOT ENOUGH. BASED ON MY SOURCE, THE RELATIVE NOTIFIED THE CLIENT ABOUT IT AND THEN THE ENGINEER SAID HE REMOVED HIS OWN SUPERVISION FEES FROM IT. THIS IS THE REASON EVERYTHING WENT SOUTH AND WHY THEY THOUGHT, THEY IS NO NEED FOR THE ENGINEER TO BE DOING IT ANYMORE.

ACCORDING TO MY SOURCE, THE CLIENT WAS NOT HAPPY WITH THE WAY IT WAS HANDLED SINCE THE ENGINEER ALWAYS LIST HIS OWN SUPERVISION PAY ON A SEPARATE COLUMN.

I ASSUME THAT IS THE REASON WHY THE ENGINEER IS NO LONGER IN-CHARGE OF THE CONSTRUCTION. @MUFUTAU55, BOSS THIS IS NOT GOING ANYWHERE. I AM JUST CURIOUS TO SEE WHY ANY CLIENTS WILL SAY THEY DO NOT NEED AN ENGINEER IN FINISHING LEVEL. I THINK WE ALL SHOULD BE TAKING ACCOUNTABILITY FOR EVERYTHING THAT WE DO. WE ALWAYS BLAME CLIENTS IN SUCH CASES.

THANK YOU @RAYMONDFIRSTBORN FOR LETTING US KNOW WHAT HAPPENED.

IRE OOO

raymondFirstborn:


I added a percentage to the unit cost of the Windows.8% in this case.
Re: Construction Of A Four Bedroom Duplex. Ipaja, Lagos by raymondFirstborn(m): 7:17am On Oct 16
[/quote]



Hajji @Mufutau55
Everyone knows Contractors add percentages to building Cost , and it doesn't have to be stated what percentage was added.
@haaa if you don't know, then you need a tendering and Estimating (QUS202) lecture.
Moreover total funds I received was N1,057,000.
My fabricator got 980,000. Which is a difference of N77,000.

My fee removed was N77,000.
@haaa you should be able to confirm the above stated.
@haaa. So if I you are sending a client a quotation for a contract you would indicate in the contract document what your percentage for overhead is?

@haaa you should get your facts right, the fabricator requested for extra 80k because price of materials between July to September had increased. Moreover the client made payments in two installments, if we had gotten the money for the windows at once , materials would have been purchased at once.

I won't be surprised if @haaa is the clients relative.

So @haaa you are saying that an engineer is wrong for adding his percentage for supervision.

@haaa do you even know what a contract is? And the elements that make contract valid.

Re: Construction Of A Four Bedroom Duplex. Ipaja, Lagos by haaa: 8:49am On Oct 16
LET ME GET SOMETHING STRAIGHT, IF I WAS THE RELATIVE TO THE CLIENT, I WILL DEFINITELY GET ALL THE SCREENSHOTS FACTS HERE. SO, I AM NOT.

MY PROBLEM WITH ENGINEER LIKE YOU IS THAT, THEY ALWAYS LIKE TO JUSTIFY EVERYTHING.

WHY DO YOU HAVE TO SCREENSHOT THE AMOUNT YOUR CLIENT PAID? AND IF YOU ACTUALLY NEED TO DO SO, WHY CAN'T YOU SHOW US THE QUOTATION YOU SENT TO THE CLIENT SO THAT WE CAN SEE WHERE YOU ADDED YOUR OWN PERCENTAGE.

I AM NOT HERE TO ARGUE WITH YOU, ALL I WANT TO DO IS TO UNDERSTAND WHAT HAPPENED. A CONTRACT IN BUILDING PROJECT IS DIFFERENT FROM DOING THE PROJECT LEVELS TO LEVELS, WHICH MEANS, CLIENT PAYS FOR EVERYTHING NEEDED FOR EACH STAGES.

WHY ARE YOU BEING DEFENSIVE? WHY ARE YOU ASKING SOMEONE YOU DO NOT KNOW IF THEY KNOW WHAT A CONTRACT IS?

YOU SOUND SO HURT AND GUILTY. AS I SAID, IF I WAS ONE OF THE CLIENT RELATIVES, YOU THINK WON'T DROP THE SCREENSHOT FACTS HERE?

WHY DO YOU NEED TO PUT A CONTRACT DOCUMENTS TOGETHER IF YOU SAY THE RELATIVE BUYS MATERIALS THEMSELVES?

HERE IS THE THING, AND DO NOT SKIP THIS PART, SINCE YOU HAVE ALRRADY SCREENSHOT ONE OF THE CONVERSATION WITH YOUR CLIENT, PLEASE ATTACH THE WINDOW QUOTATION YOU SENT TO THE CLIENT THAT THEY PAID 1.57M FOR. WE WILL LIKE TO SEE IT. IF YOU CANNOT DO THAT, NO NEED TO GO BACK AND FORTH WITH YOU AGAIN. THEN, THAT WILL SAY IT ALL.


raymondFirstborn:




Hajji @Mufutau55
Everyone knows Contractors add percentages to building Cost , and it doesn't have to be stated what percentage was added.
@haaa if you don't know, then you need a tendering and Estimating (QUS202) lecture.
Moreover total funds I received was N1,057,000.
My fabricator got 980,000. Which is a difference of N77,000.

My fee removed was N77,000.
@haaa you should be able to confirm the above stated.
@haaa. So if I you are sending a client a quotation for a contract you would indicate in the contract document what your percentage for overhead is?

@haaa you should get your facts right, the fabricator requested for extra 80k because price of materials between July to September had increased. Moreover the client made payments in two installments, if we had gotten the money for the windows at once , materials would have been purchased at once.

I won't be surprised if @haaa is the clients relative.

So @haaa you are saying that an engineer is wrong for adding his percentage for supervision.

@haaa do you even know what a contract is? And the elements that make contract valid.
Re: Construction Of A Four Bedroom Duplex. Ipaja, Lagos by raymondFirstborn(m): 9:10am On Oct 16
[

[/quote]
@haaa
I still believe you are the client relative grin grin
Why are you so pained?

If a full grown adult doesn't understand how a "percentage" is being added to the unit cost of an item, then there's no point arguing with you.

You still don't understand what a contract is.
When you do come and let's talk.

You dont know that when a client gives an engineer money to supply and install Windows , and there's written agreement that it is a contract?

So when you give someone money to supply and install doors ? What do you call that.


If I were you , I would go on the internet and do a research on contracts.

Are you pained because I removed my engineers fee of 70k+ and didn't give you any part of it.



I won't be giving any more response.
Re: Construction Of A Four Bedroom Duplex. Ipaja, Lagos by haaa: 9:25am On Oct 16
I CANNOT CONTROL WHAT YOU THINK OR BELIEVE. IT IS OKAY IF YOU THINK I AM, BUT I AM SURE IF I WAS, THEN ALL THIS YOU ARE SAYING, YOU WONT DARE TO SAY IT BECAUSE I WOULD HAVE TEA TO SPILL HERE.

YOU ARE RIGHT, ITS ONE FORM OF A CONTRACT TO AGREES TO WHAT YOU WANT TO BUY OR SELL. BUT TELL ME, WHY WILL YOU AS AN ENGINEER GO BACK TO ASK FOR ADDITIONAL 80K? IS THAT PART OF YOUR CONTRACT YOU SIGNED WITH THE CLIENT? THE PROBLEM IS THAT, WHEN SIGNED A LEGALLY BINDING DOCUMENT CONTRACT, THERE IS NO ROOMS FOR ASKING MORE MONEY UNLESS ITS WRITTEN IN THE CONTRACT OTHERWISE. THAT IS THE CONTRACT, I AM TALKING ABOUT.

YOU SOUND VERY RUDE, YOU KNOW WHY? I AM A NAIRALANDER THAT LOOKS AROUND HERE MORE OFTEN, AND INSTEAD OF YOU TO EXPLAIN YOURSELF, YOU ARE BEING DEFENSIVE.

NOW THAT I UNDERSTAND WHAT A CONTRACT MEANS, ARE YOU READY TO POST THE WINDOW QUOTATION YOU SENT TO YOUR CLIENT?


raymondFirstborn:

I still believe you are the client relative grin grin

You still don't understand what a contract is.
When you do come and let's talk.

You dont know that when a client gives an engineer money to supply and install Windows , and there's written agreement that it is a contract?

So when you give someone money to supply and install doors ? What do you call that.

If I were you , I would go on the internet and do a research on contracts.
Re: Construction Of A Four Bedroom Duplex. Ipaja, Lagos by raymondFirstborn(m): 9:29am On Oct 16
haaa:
I CANNOT CONTROL WHAT YOU THINK OR BELIEVE. IT IS OKAY IF YOU THINK I AM, BUT I AM SURE IF I WAS, THEN ALL THIS YOU ARE SAYING, YOU WONT DARE TO SAY IT BECAUSE I WOULD HAVE TEA TO SPILL HERE.

YOU ARE RIGHT, ITS ONE FORM OF A CONTRACT TO AGREES TO WHAT YOU WANT TO BUY OR SELL. BUT TELL ME, WHY WILL YOU AS AN ENGINEER GO BACK TO ASK FOR ADDITIONAL 80K? IS THAT PART OF YOUR CONTRACT YOU SIGNED WITH THE CLIENT? THE PROBLEM IS THAT, WHEN SIGNED A LEGALLY BINDING DOCUMENT CONTRACT, THERE IS NO ROOMS FOR ASKING MORE MONEY UNLESS ITS WRITTEN IN THE CONTRACT OTHERWISE. THAT IS THE CONTRACT, I AM TALKING ABOUT.

YOU SOUND VERY RUDE, YOU KNOW WHY? I AM A NAIRALANDER THAT LOOKS AROUND HERE MORE OFTEN, AND INSTEAD OF YOU TO EXPLAIN YOURSELF, YOU ARE BEING DEFENSIVE.

NOW THAT I UNDERSTAND WHAT A CONTRACT MEANS, ARE YOU READY TO POST THE WINDOW QUOTATION YOU SENT TO YOUR CLIENT?



If you understand what a contract is, then you should understand what "fluctuation in a building contract is".

Won't be giving any more responses. grin grin grin
Re: Construction Of A Four Bedroom Duplex. Ipaja, Lagos by raymondFirstborn(m): 9:36am On Oct 16
Just imagine,
@haaa dragging my name because of 70k+ supervision fee.
Other engineers charge double and triple that amount.
Re: Construction Of A Four Bedroom Duplex. Ipaja, Lagos by haaa: 9:38am On Oct 16
NOW YOU ARE BRINGING BOOKS INTO IT BUT IN THE FIELD YOU ARE MAKING AND DOING ERRORS. ANYONE CAN PASS THROUGH SCHOOL, BUT ANYONE CANNOT DO THE FIELD WORK. THE FIELD WORK IS DIFFERENT FROM ALL WHAT YOU ARE SAYING.

THE INFUCTUATION IN A BUILDING CONTRACT IS VOID ONLY IF ITS NOTED OR WRITTEN IN THE CONTRACT. YOU ARE NOT MAKING SENSE HERE. TO CROWN ALL YOUR ARGUEMENT INSTEAD OF QUOTING DEFINITIONS, WHY CANT WE SEE YOUR WINDOW QUOTATION CONTRACT THAT YOU SENT TO YOUR CLIENT OR ANYWHERE YOU TOLD YOU CLIENT THAT TOTAL PRICE COULD BE CHANGED DUE TO DATED MARKET VALUE.

I WILL STOP RESPONDING TO YOU IF YOU CANNOT SHOW US THE WINDOW QUOTATIONS. IF YOU CANT, THEN I SEE REASON WHY THE CLIENT IS UPSET.


raymondFirstborn:


If you understand what a contract is, then you should understand what "fluctuation in a building contract is".

Won't be giving any more responses. grin grin grin
Re: Construction Of A Four Bedroom Duplex. Ipaja, Lagos by raymondFirstborn(m): 9:48am On Oct 16
haaa:
NOW YOU ARE BRINGING BOOKS INTO IT BUT IN THE FIELD YOU ARE MAKING AND DOING ERRORS. ANYONE CAN PASS THROUGH SCHOOL, BUT ANYONE CANNOT DO THE FIELD WORK. THE FIELD WORK IS DIFFERENT FROM ALL WHAT YOU ARE SAYING.

THE INFUCTUATION IN A BUILDING CONTRACT IS VOID ONLY IF ITS NOTED OR WRITTEN IN THE CONTRACT. YOU ARE NOT MAKING SENSE HERE. TO CROWN ALL YOUR ARGUEMENT INSTEAD OF QUOTING DEFINITIONS, WHY CANT WE SEE YOUR WINDOW QUOTATION CONTRACT THAT YOU SENT TO YOUR CLIENT OR ANYWHERE YOU TOLD YOU CLIENT THAT TOTAL PRICE COULD BE CHANGED DUE TO DATED MARKET VALUE.

I WILL STOP RESPONDING TO YOU IF YOU CANNOT SHOW US THE WINDOW QUOTATIONS. IF YOU CANT, THEN I SEE REASON WHY THE CLIENT IS UPSET.





I showed you a screenshot of how much the client sent and that's all, so why are you jumping all over my thread. grin grin.
What's in the quote I sent is none of your business, what matters is the final amount agreed on.

Now I see
You are just a pained relative who is annoyed , I didn't give him a cut from my Engineers fee.
Re: Construction Of A Four Bedroom Duplex. Ipaja, Lagos by raymondFirstborn(m): 10:26am On Oct 16
haaa:
WHICH CUT? ANYWAY, PLEASE KEEP THE SAME ENERGY WHEN I GET MY HANDS ON THAT WINDOW QUOTATION. I WILL DO EVERYTHING IN MY POWER TO GET IT. THE MAIN POINT HERE IS TO JUSTIFY REASON WHY YOU REMOVED ENGINEER MONEY OFF THE WINDOW QUOTATION WHEN IT SHOULD NOT BE SO.



Even if you get the quotation and post , it still won't take away the fact that I and the client agreed on 1,057,000, which is the total amount I received.

And you would still not understand how I added my percentage to the unit cost. That's the difference between a building professional and a layman.

When you buy a bag of cement from DANGOTE, does he tell you the percentage of profit he makes from one bag .

If I am you , I would get a job.
Re: Construction Of A Four Bedroom Duplex. Ipaja, Lagos by haaa: 11:14am On Oct 16
WOWWWWWWWWWWWWW. IT IS OKAY, I DO NOT NEED TO GET IT ANYMORE. YOU HAVE SAID IT. THERE IS ONLY ONE AND CLEARLY WAY TO UNDERSTAND HOW YOUR ENGINEER IS DEDUCTED WHICH IS WHAT I WILL PUT BELOW:

1ST SCENARIO WHICH WILL INDICATE ENGINEER FEE

NO. 2: 1400X4500 COST 100K PER UNIT MULTIPLY BY 2 WHICH WILL GIVE YOU 200K.
ENGINEER FEE: 75K
WORKMANSHIP: 40K
TRANSPORTATION: 10K
TOTAL IS 325K

2ND SCENARIO WHICH WILL NOT INDICATE ENGINEER FEE

NO. 2: 1400X4500 COST 100K PER UNIT MULTIPLY BY 2 WHICH WILL GIVE YOU 200K
WORKMANSHIP:40K
TRANSPORTATION:10K
TOTAL IS 250K

IF YOU REMOVE ENGINEER FEE FROM 2ND SCENARIO AND GIVE THE WINDOW GUY LESS MONEY THAN 250K THEN ITS A MIS-MANAGED.

DANGOTE CEMENTS ALREADY HAS EVERYTHING INCLUDED IN WHAT A BAG OF CEMENT IS SOLD FROM THE FACTORY. THAT IS WHAT PEOPLE CALLED TRANSPARENCY. I DONT KNOW WHY YOU ARE USING CEMENTS AS AN EXAMPLE. YOU FORGOT THAT YOU ARE AN ENGINEER AND TO BE ABLE TO GET CLIENTS, YOU HAVE TO BE CLEAR AND PRECISE. MY MAIN POINT IS THAT, TAKE ACCOUNTABILITY AND STOP BLAMING EVERYONE FOR YOUR MISTAKES. IN THIS CASE, YOU ARE AT FAULT NOT THE RELATIVES OR CLIENT. PEOPLE LIKE YOU ARE THE REASONS WHY CLIENT DOESNT WANT TO GIVE US JOB. SELFISHNESS AND GREEDINESS AND THEN YOU WILL COME HERE TO BLAME THEM.

WISH YOU BEST OF LUCK IN ALL YOUR ENDEAVORS.




raymondFirstborn:


Even if you get the quotation and post , it still won't take away the fact that I and the client agreed on 1,057,000, which is the total amount I received.

And you would still not understand how I added my percentage to the unit cost. That's the difference between a building professional and a layman.

When you buy a bag of cement from DANGOTE, does he tell you the percentage of profit he makes from one bag .

If I am you , I would get a job.



Re: Construction Of A Four Bedroom Duplex. Ipaja, Lagos by 1TED: 1:23pm On Oct 16
@Haaa, I negotiated with a window fabricator to do a certain quantity and quality for me. Fabricator agreed 980k total. I sent an invoice of 1,057m to client, client approved and agreed to pay twice. However, due to covid and bad economy, prices of aluminium went up and I pleaded with the client to review invoice by adding 80k to invoice, Please where as the engineer gone wrong? Cos i dnt get ur argument.

2 Likes

Re: Construction Of A Four Bedroom Duplex. Ipaja, Lagos by haaa: 3:08pm On Oct 16
@1TED TO ME, THE ENGINEER DID NOT DO ANYTHING WRONG IF THE ENGINEER ONLY CLAIM TO GET A BETTER DEAL. WHERE EVERYTHING WENT WRONG WAS WHEN THE ENGINEER SENT THE INVOICE OF 1.57M TO THE CLIENT AND MIND YOU THE ENGINEER DID NOT SAY HE NEGOTIATED LESSER PRICE WITH THE FABRICATOR IF YOU LOOK AT THE PREVIOUS POST; ACCORDING TO THE ENGINEER, HE REMOVED HIS SUPERVISION FEE FROM THE MONEY WITHOUT INDICATING IT TO THE CLIENT INSIDE THE INVOICE AS HE USUALLY DO. THE ARGUEMENT IS NOT ABOUT THE EXTRA 80K, BUT ACCORDING TO MY SOURCE THE PROBLEM IS THE RELATIVES AND CLIENT GETTING TO HEAR HOW MUCH THE ENGINEER PAID THE FABRICATOR RIGHT AFTER HE DEMANDED FOR AN EXTRA 80K. SO, THAT WAS WHEN THE ENGINEER OPENED UP TO THE CLIENT THAT HE REMOVED HIS SUPERVISION FEE. TO ME, I BELIEVE THAT IS WHERE EVERYTHING WENT SOUTH.

SINCE I FOLLOW @RAYMONDFIRSTBORN AND HIS WORK, I ASKED IF THE CONSTRUCTION IS STILL GOING ON, AND THE ENGINEER SAID THE CLIENT DECIDED NOT TO USE HIM AGAIN FOR THE FINISHING LEVEL, AND INSTEAD, THE CLIENT GIVE IT TO THE RELATIVES. TO ME, IT DOES NOT MAKE SENSE FOR A CLIENT TO SAY SUCH UNLESS THEY HAVE REASONABLE GROUNDS TO SAY SO.


1TED:
@Haaa, I negotiated with a window fabricator to do a certain quantity and quality for me. Fabricator agreed 980k total. I sent an invoice of 1,057m to client, client approved and agreed to pay twice. However, due to covid and bad economy, prices of aluminium went up and I pleaded with the client to review invoice by adding 80k to invoice, Please where as the engineer gone wrong? Cos i dnt get ur argument.
Re: Construction Of A Four Bedroom Duplex. Ipaja, Lagos by mufutau55(m): 3:14pm On Oct 16
haaa:

@MUFUTAU55, BOSS THIS IS NOT GOING ANYWHERE. I AM JUST CURIOUS TO SEE WHY ANY CLIENTS WILL SAY THEY DO NOT NEED AN ENGINEER IN FINISHING LEVEL. I THINK WE ALL SHOULD BE TAKING ACCOUNTABILITY FOR EVERYTHING THAT WE DO. WE ALWAYS BLAME CLIENTS IN SUCH CASES.

THANK YOU @RAYMONDFIRSTBORN FOR LETTING US KNOW WHAT HAPPENED.

IRE OOO

I can understand your curiousity which is normal.
It is wrong for Client to say they Engineers are not needed for finishing stage. Engineers or the Contractors are needed in every stage. But some Clients try to save Supervision cost by just hiring direct artisan for each stage, but the artisan can just do whatever they want when there is no professional supervision. So it's all about economy. Both have pros and cons.
The Clients can blame themselves not the Contractor/Engineer if the artisan did something wrong.

And also about the Windows... if the Contractor is supervising the project, he can add his fees to the cost of the window fabrication since he is going to supervise the installation and also make sure the windows are fabricated properly before accepting it. And if any problem arises, he can be held responsible.

Hopefully I have shed some light. Thank you.

Hajji M.

3 Likes

Re: Construction Of A Four Bedroom Duplex. Ipaja, Lagos by mufutau55(m): 3:33pm On Oct 16
@raymondfirstborn

I do understand all your explanations... so I do not need to quote all your message in full.

Please read my reply to @haa post which I have explained things. Many ppl do not understand the meaning of "fees", so they need to be informed.
You have not done anything wrong by adding your Supervision fees which is normal practice. You have not committed any crime.
Prolonging some explanations may cause more problems. If the Client has problem with your cost, all he has to do is reject it and everyone goes their peaceful ways. You lose some, you win some. Thank you.

Hajji M.
Re: Construction Of A Four Bedroom Duplex. Ipaja, Lagos by Empresstilda: 4:04pm On Oct 16
@haaa

I don't see anything wrong with what
raymondfirstborn did. I am an architect, this is business. Just last week a client asked for the quotation of a kitchen cabinet, I asked my furniture guy to give me an estimate for the job.

When I got the Estimate from the furniture guy, I added my profit then I send the total cost to the client. cool
Mr @haaa that's business for you .

The engineer doesn't need to indicate that his fees are included. cheesy

2 Likes

Re: Construction Of A Four Bedroom Duplex. Ipaja, Lagos by Prudency045: 4:08pm On Oct 16
Empresstilda:
@haaa

I don't see anything wrong with what
raymondfirstborn did. I am an architect, this is business. Just last week a client asked for the quotation of a kitchen cabinet, I asked my furniture guy to give me an estimate for the job.

When I got the Estimate from the furniture guy, I added my profit then I send the total cost to the client. cool
Mr @haaa that's business for you .

The engineer doesn't need to indicate that his fees are included. cheesy
What then is the essence of a separate supervision fee? It is most times between 5%-15% of the total amount spent on the project. Depending on what the client and engineer agree on.
Re: Construction Of A Four Bedroom Duplex. Ipaja, Lagos by mufutau55(m): 4:18pm On Oct 16
Prudency045:

What then is the essence of a separate supervision fee? It is most times between 5%-15% of the total amount spent on the project. Depending on what the client and engineer agree on.

There are several supervisions on a project.
Some charges from foundation to roofing (carcass), and also charges for finishing as they go along... things like windows and others after the carcass are classified as finishings. So there can be several Supervision fees on a project. If a Contractor handles the project from foundation till hand-over keys, then he must have added those supervision fees on each stage of the project.
Hope this helps. Thank you.

Hajji M.
Re: Construction Of A Four Bedroom Duplex. Ipaja, Lagos by Empresstilda: 4:20pm On Oct 16
Prudency045:

What then is the essence of a separate supervision fee? It is most times between 5%-15% of the total amount spent on the project. Depending on what the client and engineer agree on.

Your right@prudency045 , but in most of my small projects my clients usually want the percentage broken down into stages, could be the same in this case.


Mr @haaa 70k+ is peanut to be arguing over.

If I was the contractor I would have charged more. Who makes 70k+ from a project worth 1m+. wink wink

1 Like

Re: Construction Of A Four Bedroom Duplex. Ipaja, Lagos by raymondFirstborn(m): 4:23pm On Oct 16
mufutau55:
@raymondfirstborn

I do understand all your explanations... so I do not need to quote all your message in full.

Please read my reply to @haa post which I have explained things. Many ppl do not understand the meaning of "fees", so they need to be informed.
You have not done anything wrong by adding your Supervision fees which is normal practice. You have not committed any crime.
Prolonging some explanations may cause more problems. If the Client has problem with your cost, all he has to do is reject it and everyone goes their peaceful ways. You lose some, you win some. Thank you.

Hajji M.

Thanks hajji
Re: Construction Of A Four Bedroom Duplex. Ipaja, Lagos by haaa: 8:15am On Oct 17
@MUFUTAU55 THANK YOU FOR YOUR INSIGHT. AS YOU HAVE MENTIONED, MAYBE THEY DECIDED TO HIRE ARTISAN DIRECTLY, IN THIS CASE, I AM NOT SURE. WHAT I GATHERED IS THAT, THEY ARE NOT PLEASED WITH THE WAY THE ENGINEER HANDLED THAT STAGE. LET ME REPHRASE AGAIN, ACCORDING TO THEM, THE ENGINEER ALWAYS BREAKDOWN EACH STAGES THAT USUALLY INDICATES WHICH ONE IS FOR WHAT AND WHATNOT. PLEASE PAY ATTENTION TO THIS, IN THE WINDOW SITUATION, THE ENGINEER SENT A QUOTATION TO THE CLIENT SIGNED BY THE FABRICATOR WITH THE FABRICATOR HEADLINE. WHAT THAT MEANS IS THAT, THE QUOTATION PRICES OF EACH WINDOWS CAME DIRECTLY FROM THE FABRICATOR. NORMALLY, HOW THE ENGINEER USE TO DO IT, HE WILL MAKE HIS OWN BREAKDOWN, ADD HIS OWN SUPERVISION MONEY ON ANOTHER COLUMN TO INDICATE WHAT HE WILL BE CHARGING FOR HIS OWN FEE.

BUT IN THIS WINDOW CASE, ACCORDING TO THE SOURCE, THE CLIENT ONLY RECEIVED FABRICATOR BREAKDOWN. SO WHEN THEY ASKED FOR ADDITION MONEY, THE CLIENT REALIZED FROM THE FABRICATOR MOUTH THAT THE ENGINEER ONLY GAVE HIM 980K INSTEAD OF THE 1,057M THAT THE CLIENT RECEIVED.

SO AFTER THE CLIENT ASK THE ENGINEER, THAT WAS WHEN THE ENGINEER SAID THAT HE REMOVED HIS OWN SUPERVION MONEY OFF IT.

THE PROBLEM IS NOT THE ENGINEER TAKING SUPERVISION MONEY OUT, THE PROBLEM IS THE WAY THE MONEY GOT DEDUCTED. I BELIEVE THAT IS WHERE EVERYTHING WENT SOUTH.





mufutau55:


I can understand your curiousity which is normal.
It is wrong for Client to say they Engineers are not needed for finishing stage. Engineers or the Contractors are needed in every stage. But some Clients try to save Supervision cost by just hiring direct artisan for each stage, but the artisan can just do whatever they want when there is no professional supervision. So it's all about economy. Both have pros and cons.
The Clients can blame themselves not the Contractor/Engineer if the artisan did something wrong.

And also about the Windows... if the Contractor is supervising the project, he can add his fees to the cost of the window fabrication since he is going to supervise the installation and also make sure the windows are fabricated properly before accepting it. And if any problem arises, he can be held responsible.

Hopefully I have shed some light. Thank you.

Hajji M.
Re: Construction Of A Four Bedroom Duplex. Ipaja, Lagos by haaa: 8:26am On Oct 17
@EMPRESSTILDA THIS IS NOT A MATTER OF BEEN PEANUT MONEY OR GOLD MONEY. SOME PEOPLE DO HAVE PRINCIPLE, AND TRANSPARENCY IS SOME BEST WAY TO GO ABOUT LIFE. PEANUTS OR NOT, SOME PEOPLE VALUE TRUST REGARDLESS OF THE PRICE. TO YOU THAT MIGHT BE PEANUT, BUT TO SOME PEOPLE, IT MIGHT BE WHAT THEY MAKE IN A WHOLE YEAR.

I WILL LIKE TO ASK YOU, WHAT DO YOU WANT TO MAKE ON WINDOWS WORTH 980K? SO MAKING 70K+ IS NOT ENOUGH ON JUST THE WINDOW?


Empresstilda:


Your right@prudency045 , but in most of my small projects my clients usually want the percentage broken down into stages, could be the same in this case.


Mr @haaa 70k+ is peanut to be arguing over.

If I was the contractor I would have charged more. Who makes 70k+ from a project worth 1m+. wink wink

1 Like

Re: Construction Of A Four Bedroom Duplex. Ipaja, Lagos by haaa: 8:41am On Oct 17
WHAT YOU DESCRIBED HERE IS TOTALLY DIFFERENT FROM THIS SITUATION BASED ON MY SOURCE EVEN THOUGH MR. RAYMONDFIRSTBORN CLAIMED I AM ONE OF THE RELATIVES WHICH IS NOT TRUE. ANYWAY, WHAT YOU SAID HERE IS NOT THE SAME.

YOU GOT A QUOTATION AND YOU ADDED YOUR OWN GAIN. THAT IS BUSINESS, BUT AS AN ARCHITECT, DURING THE KITCHEN CABINET LEVEL, YOU WILL STILL GET YOUR OWN SUPERVISION FEE FROM THE CLIENT FOR SURE BECAUSE WHAT YOU SAID ADDING YOUR OWN GAIN IS A BUSINESS BEING THE THIRD PARTY THAT NEGIOTIATED THE CARBINETS PRICE. SO IT IS DIFFERENT.

LETS SAY YOUR CLIENT WANTS YOU TO GET HIM APPLIANCES FOR THE KITCHEN CARBINETS, AND YOU SENT INVOICE THAT THE ELECTRONICS GUY SIGNED, THAT SAYS A FRIDGE COST 4K
HOOD 3K
GAS COOKER 5K
TRANSPORT 1K
TOTAL IS 13K

AND YOU GET IT SENT TO YOUR CLIENT AND THEY PAY IT. LATER ON, YOUR CLIENT FIGURED FROM THE ELECTRONIC STORE THAT YOU ONLY PAY 10K AFTER THE ELECTRONIC GUY DEMANDED FOR ADDITIONAL MONEY. AND WHEN YOUR CLIENT ASK YOU WHAT HAPPENED, YOU SAID YOU ONLY PAID 10K AND TOOK 3K OFF AS YOUR OWN SUPERVISION FEE.

WHY NOT JUST SAY I NEGOTIATED VERY WELL WITH THE GUY AND I MAKE 3K OFF IT. WONT THAT BE CLEAR AND SIMPLE? ESPECIALLY IF YOU ALWAYS INCLUDE YOUR SUPERVISION MONEY ON EVERY STAGES THAT THE CLIENT IS USED TO SUCH FORMAT. WHAT DO YOU THINK YOUR CLIENT WILL THINK?



Empresstilda:
@haaa

I don't see anything wrong with what
raymondfirstborn did. I am an architect, this is business. Just last week a client asked for the quotation of a kitchen cabinet, I asked my furniture guy to give me an estimate for the job.

When I got the Estimate from the furniture guy, I added my profit then I send the total cost to the client. cool
Mr @haaa that's business for you .

The engineer doesn't need to indicate that his fees are included. cheesy
Re: Construction Of A Four Bedroom Duplex. Ipaja, Lagos by Horlardorjah(m): 9:41am On Oct 17
haaa:
@MUFUTAU55 THANK YOU FOR YOUR INSIGHT. AS YOU HAVE MENTIONED, MAYBE THEY DECIDED TO HIRE ARTISAN DIRECTLY, IN THIS CASE, I AM NOT SURE. WHAT I GATHERED IS THAT, THEY ARE NOT PLEASED WITH THE WAY THE ENGINEER HANDLED THAT STAGE. LET ME REPHRASE AGAIN, ACCORDING TO THEM, THE ENGINEER ALWAYS BREAKDOWN EACH STAGES THAT USUALLY INDICATES WHICH ONE IS FOR WHAT AND WHATNOT. PLEASE PAY ATTENTION TO THIS, IN THE WINDOW SITUATION, THE ENGINEER SENT A QUOTATION TO THE CLIENT SIGNED BY THE FABRICATOR WITH THE FABRICATOR HEADLINE. WHAT THAT MEANS IS THAT, THE QUOTATION PRICES OF EACH WINDOWS CAME DIRECTLY FROM THE FABRICATOR. NORMALLY, HOW THE ENGINEER USE TO DO IT, HE WILL MAKE HIS OWN BREAKDOWN, ADD HIS OWN SUPERVISION MONEY ON ANOTHER COLUMN TO INDICATE WHAT HE WILL BE CHARGING FOR HIS OWN FEE.

BUT IN THIS WINDOW CASE, ACCORDING TO THE SOURCE, THE CLIENT ONLY RECEIVED FABRICATOR BREAKDOWN. SO WHEN THEY ASKED FOR ADDITION MONEY, THE CLIENT REALIZED FROM THE FABRICATOR MOUTH THAT THE ENGINEER ONLY GAVE HIM 980K INSTEAD OF THE 1,057M THAT THE CLIENT RECEIVED.

SO AFTER THE CLIENT ASK THE ENGINEER, THAT WAS WHEN THE ENGINEER SAID THAT HE REMOVED HIS OWN SUPERVION MONEY OFF IT.

THE PROBLEM IS NOT THE ENGINEER TAKING SUPERVISION MONEY OUT, THE PROBLEM IS THE WAY THE MONEY GOT DEDUCTED. I BELIEVE THAT IS WHERE EVERYTHING WENT SOUTH.



DID the client ask for the engineers charge on the window work when they note it wasn't included in the quote sent or they assume he is doing it for free?
before you try to pull the engineer down, ask yourself n your source that question as well then come back here to answer us

Re: Construction Of A Four Bedroom Duplex. Ipaja, Lagos by Horlardorjah(m): 9:46am On Oct 17
haaa:
WHAT YOU DESCRIBED HERE IS TOTALLY DIFFERENT FROM THIS SITUATION BASED ON MY SOURCE EVEN THOUGH MR. RAYMONDFIRSTBORN CLAIMED I AM ONE OF THE RELATIVES WHICH IS NOT TRUE. ANYWAY, WHAT YOU SAID HERE IS NOT THE SAME.

YOU GOT A QUOTATION AND YOU ADDED YOUR OWN GAIN. THAT IS BUSINESS, BUT AS AN ARCHITECT, DURING THE KITCHEN CABINET LEVEL, YOU WILL STILL GET YOUR OWN SUPERVISION FEE FROM THE CLIENT FOR SURE BECAUSE WHAT YOU SAID ADDING YOUR OWN GAIN IS A BUSINESS BEING THE THIRD PARTY THAT NEGIOTIATED THE CARBINETS PRICE. SO IT IS DIFFERENT.

LETS SAY YOUR CLIENT WANTS YOU TO GET HIM APPLIANCES FOR THE KITCHEN CARBINETS, AND YOU SENT INVOICE THAT THE ELECTRONICS GUY SIGNED, THAT SAYS A FRIDGE COST 4K
HOOD 3K
GAS COOKER 5K
TRANSPORT 1K
TOTAL IS 13K

AND YOU GET IT SENT TO YOUR CLIENT AND THEY PAY IT. LATER ON, YOUR CLIENT FIGURED FROM THE ELECTRONIC STORE THAT YOU ONLY PAY 10K AFTER THE ELECTRONIC GUY DEMANDED FOR ADDITIONAL MONEY. AND WHEN YOUR CLIENT ASK YOU WHAT HAPPENED, YOU SAID YOU ONLY PAID 10K AND TOOK 3K OFF AS YOUR OWN SUPERVISION FEE.

WHY NOT JUST SAY I NEGOTIATED VERY WELL WITH THE GUY AND I MAKE 3K OFF IT. WONT THAT BE CLEAR AND SIMPLE? ESPECIALLY IF YOU ALWAYS INCLUDE YOUR SUPERVISION MONEY ON EVERY STAGES THAT THE CLIENT IS USED TO SUCH FORMAT. WHAT DO YOU THINK YOUR CLIENT WILL THINK?





all u typed up here doesn't have any meaning at all.
if u not the client nor relative as @raymondfirstborn implied, then please put an end to this except you have any other thing to gain from this drama u acting
Re: Construction Of A Four Bedroom Duplex. Ipaja, Lagos by guysmilee134: 10:22am On Oct 17
haaa:
WHAT YOU DESCRIBED HERE IS TOTALLY DIFFERENT FROM THIS SITUATION BASED ON MY SOURCE EVEN THOUGH MR. RAYMONDFIRSTBORN CLAIMED I AM ONE OF THE RELATIVES WHICH IS NOT TRUE. ANYWAY, WHAT YOU SAID HERE IS NOT THE SAME.

YOU GOT A QUOTATION AND YOU ADDED YOUR OWN GAIN. THAT IS BUSINESS, BUT AS AN ARCHITECT, DURING THE KITCHEN CABINET LEVEL, YOU WILL STILL GET YOUR OWN SUPERVISION FEE FROM THE CLIENT FOR SURE BECAUSE WHAT YOU SAID ADDING YOUR OWN GAIN IS A BUSINESS BEING THE THIRD PARTY THAT NEGIOTIATED THE CARBINETS PRICE. SO IT IS DIFFERENT.

LETS SAY YOUR CLIENT WANTS YOU TO GET HIM APPLIANCES FOR THE KITCHEN CARBINETS, AND YOU SENT INVOICE THAT THE ELECTRONICS GUY SIGNED, THAT SAYS A FRIDGE COST 4K
HOOD 3K
GAS COOKER 5K
TRANSPORT 1K
TOTAL IS 13K

AND YOU GET IT SENT TO YOUR CLIENT AND THEY PAY IT. LATER ON, YOUR CLIENT FIGURED FROM THE ELECTRONIC STORE THAT YOU ONLY PAY 10K AFTER THE ELECTRONIC GUY DEMANDED FOR ADDITIONAL MONEY. AND WHEN YOUR CLIENT ASK YOU WHAT HAPPENED, YOU SAID YOU ONLY PAID 10K AND TOOK 3K OFF AS YOUR OWN SUPERVISION FEE.

WHY NOT JUST SAY I NEGOTIATED VERY WELL WITH THE GUY AND I MAKE 3K OFF IT. WONT THAT BE CLEAR AND SIMPLE? ESPECIALLY IF YOU ALWAYS INCLUDE YOUR SUPERVISION MONEY ON EVERY STAGES THAT THE CLIENT IS USED TO SUCH FORMAT. WHAT DO YOU THINK YOUR CLIENT WILL THINK?





Transparency is lacking everywhere in Nigeria. Which is making everything damn expensive because we all want to make money from every damn thing. If I was the client also I would have trust issues and probably stop.
We as clients too should understand that the professionals are there for a reason and we should not undermine their professional fees, likewise the professionals should not see everything as a money making venture. Be contented with your professional fees and make the best out of your job.

1 Like

Re: Construction Of A Four Bedroom Duplex. Ipaja, Lagos by Empresstilda: 6:43am On Oct 18
haaa:
WHAT YOU DESCRIBED HERE IS TOTALLY DIFFERENT FROM THIS SITUATION BASED ON MY SOURCE EVEN THOUGH MR. RAYMONDFIRSTBORN CLAIMED I AM ONE OF THE RELATIVES WHICH IS NOT TRUE. ANYWAY, WHAT YOU SAID HERE IS NOT THE SAME.

YOU GOT A QUOTATION AND YOU ADDED YOUR OWN GAIN. THAT IS BUSINESS, BUT AS AN ARCHITECT, DURING THE KITCHEN CABINET LEVEL, YOU WILL STILL GET YOUR OWN SUPERVISION FEE FROM THE CLIENT FOR SURE BECAUSE WHAT YOU SAID ADDING YOUR OWN GAIN IS A BUSINESS BEING THE THIRD PARTY THAT NEGIOTIATED THE CARBINETS PRICE. SO IT IS DIFFERENT.

LETS SAY YOUR CLIENT WANTS YOU TO GET HIM APPLIANCES FOR THE KITCHEN CARBINETS, AND YOU SENT INVOICE THAT THE ELECTRONICS GUY SIGNED, THAT SAYS A FRIDGE COST 4K
HOOD 3K
GAS COOKER 5K
TRANSPORT 1K
TOTAL IS 13K

AND YOU GET IT SENT TO YOUR CLIENT AND THEY PAY IT. LATER ON, YOUR CLIENT FIGURED FROM THE ELECTRONIC STORE THAT YOU ONLY PAY 10K AFTER THE ELECTRONIC GUY DEMANDED FOR ADDITIONAL MONEY. AND WHEN YOUR CLIENT ASK YOU WHAT HAPPENED, YOU SAID YOU ONLY PAID 10K AND TOOK 3K OFF AS YOUR OWN SUPERVISION FEE.

WHY NOT JUST SAY I NEGOTIATED VERY WELL WITH THE GUY AND I MAKE 3K OFF IT. WONT THAT BE CLEAR AND SIMPLE? ESPECIALLY IF YOU ALWAYS INCLUDE YOUR SUPERVISION MONEY ON EVERY STAGES THAT THE CLIENT IS USED TO SUCH FORMAT. WHAT DO YOU THINK YOUR CLIENT WILL THINK?




You think you are talking to kids here. It seems you are newbie in the construction industry.

If you don't Know how construction works , then start reading. Some of us have over 25years experience.

I don't have to tell the client anything, let me explain to you. Furnitures , windows and doors installation is entirely different from other items of work in a building. Architects and engineers don't charge separate fees for these items of work. The profit / fees are always embedded in the materials cost.

YOU DO NOT SEPARATE IT and write it under any separate column.



Peace undecided
Re: Construction Of A Four Bedroom Duplex. Ipaja, Lagos by Empresstilda: 6:51am On Oct 18
haaa:
@EMPRESSTILDA THIS IS NOT A MATTER OF BEEN PEANUT MONEY OR GOLD MONEY. SOME PEOPLE DO HAVE PRINCIPLE, AND TRANSPARENCY IS SOME BEST WAY TO GO ABOUT LIFE. PEANUTS OR NOT, SOME PEOPLE VALUE TRUST REGARDLESS OF THE PRICE. TO YOU THAT MIGHT BE PEANUT, BUT TO SOME PEOPLE, IT MIGHT BE WHAT THEY MAKE IN A WHOLE YEAR.

I WILL LIKE TO ASK YOU, WHAT DO YOU WANT TO MAKE ON WINDOWS WORTH 980K? SO MAKING 70K+ IS NOT ENOUGH ON JUST THE WINDOW?



Dude.
This has nothing to do with transparency.

And yes 70k+ is peanuts for an engineer. It seems poverty has clouded your way of thinking, so you think 70k is a lot of money. You should make enquires , the least most engineers charge is 150k. The client is lucky to have some one charge him so little.

undecidedpeace

Please don't quote me.
Re: Construction Of A Four Bedroom Duplex. Ipaja, Lagos by haaa: 9:01pm On Oct 18
OKAY, YOUR POINT IS NOTED @EMPRESSTILDA BUT WAIT, HOW DO YOU KNOW IT IS POVERTY THAT CLOUDED MY THINKING? WHAT I SEE OR CAN HEAR IS GREEDINESS AND SELFISHNESS. THE SAME PROBLEM WE HAVE HERE IN 9JA. ON A SIDE NOTE THOUGH, I WILL LIKE TO PATRONIZE YOUR BUSINESS. PUT YOUR WORK ON HERE AND LET US SEE IF YOU ARE ONE OF THOSE ENGINEERS THAT WORTH CHARGING 150K. I WILL NOT ASSUME ANYTHING ABOUT YOUR WORK UNTIL I SEE YOUR WORK.

DO NOT WORRY, I WILL NOT QUOTE YOU. I SEE YOUR POINT. FIXED MINDED!


Empresstilda:


Dude.
This has nothing to do with transparency.

And yes 70k+ is peanuts for an engineer. It seems poverty has clouded your way of thinking, so you think 70k is a lot of money. You should make enquires , the least most engineers charge is 150k. The client is lucky to have some one charge him so little.

undecidedpeace

Please don't quote me.
Re: Construction Of A Four Bedroom Duplex. Ipaja, Lagos by haaa: 9:01pm On Oct 18
EXACTLY MY POINT.

guysmilee134:



Transparency is lacking everywhere in Nigeria. Which is making everything damn expensive because we all want to make money from every damn thing. If I was the client also I would have trust issues and probably stop.
We as clients too should understand that the professionals are there for a reason and we should not undermine their professional fees, likewise the professionals should not see everything as a money making venture. Be contented with your professional fees and make the best out of your job.

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