Thank you boss. This was the point I was trying to make but it appears to have been missed by all the people who reacted

You have a well reviewed, premium, field tested industrial grade LifeP04 storage system like PylonTech, manufactured inside a fully automated/robotics driven factory. The manufacturer has full control of every stage of the process and every part used.

Despite all the above, the manufacturer has locked down the BMS parameters so tight to ensure that the battery does the promised 80% capacity left after 6,000cycles at 80% DoD.

A test center in Australia has put the Pylon and BYD and other batteries through 3 years of aggressive charge and discharge 3 times daily and the Pylon appeared on track to reach the advertised goal doing better than BYD and other batteries.

With Pylon you can mix even the US3000 - 48v 74Ah with US2000 48v 50Ah .....

Despite all these features, we see issues and limitations in the field that we have to work to overcome, then someone now believes some DIY grade BMS will outdo the industrial grade BMS (texas instruments chip) inside the Pylon and some LifeP04 cells of average grade assembled by hand and/or DIYed will outdo the grade A, tightly QCed cells in PylonTech.

Not likely if you ask me but time will tell.

Certainly Lithium is more complex than lead acid but also packs energy in a more compact form amongst other advantages.

For me I chose LifePO4 because I wanted a stable chemistry that was not likely to catch fire. I chose PylonTech so that I could have reliability and long service life with minimal work. So far it is doing the job wonderfully, I only wish it came at a much cheaper price.

GeorgeD1:


nice one niyi. at least we finally begin to see some down to earth details popping up far from the glossy narratives
we been hitherto fed with.
your admissions tally completely with what that rod guy was trying to explain in his website while also mentioning
your battery type - pylontech.
when we lay the facts bare for all to see, discerning peeps are able to make informed decisions without feeling
tricked into venturing into something they thought was all frills and thrills.

More like mini war sessions.

mctfopt:
Interesting conversations.

NiyiOmoIyunade:


Despite all these features, we see issues and limitations in the field that we have to work to overcome, then someone now believes some DIY grade BMS will outdo the industrial grade BMS (texas instruments chip) inside the Pylon and some LifeP04 cells of average grade assembled by hand and/or DIYed will outdo the grade A, tightly QCed cells in PylonTech.

Not likely if you ask me but time will tell.

Very funny. I think you have similar complex with @GeorgeD1. You think because you paid top dollar for some proprietary system, it must be better than the cheaper more open source option! You are very wrong.

Let me tell you what you may be aware of. I have a few network routers in my house; Linksys, TP-Link, Netgear, D-Link and Mikrotik. Aside the Mikrotik, the first thing I did to the other ones was to get rid of the factory firmwares that came with them and flash open source firmwares; DD-WRT, Gargoyle or OpenWRT. Yes, I got rid of the firmware developed with R& financial muscle of big network vendors like Linksys (Cisco and Belkin at various times) and put open source firmware developed by a bunch of small but very talented people working mostly for free.

Same with my expensive Samsung phones. I use open source modification I got from XDA from the likes of Dr.Ketan, an Indian ENT Surgeon. Yes, I abandoned Samsung's R& software for something developed by an hobbyist working at home in his spare time. My major grouse with iPad and iPhones is their ultra-proprietary nature. Some think that they are better, but certainly not in my book. That is why I'm a fan of android phones.

@GeoargeD1 believed that his heavy investment in LeadAcid Batteries makes them better than Lithium, while you think that your investment in PylonTech makes your battery better than ours. That may be true, but it has absolutely nothing to do with all you said above.

My personal experience is that non-proprietary systems tend to be more robust, less restrictive and better maintained than proprietary commercial systems. They also get better support from DIY community. It is the same reason why Linux is a more robust and stable production software than Windows. Of course, one of the first thing I did with my Felicity Lithium was to replace its BMS with ANT BMS. The Felicity BMS looks better and bigger, but I have absolutely no control over it. If I buy PylonTech, I will certainly change its BMS to this "DIY BMS" you disrespect so much because it didn't cost a arm and a leg. Things are not necessarily bad because they are DIY, or cheap, indeed, many times they are better, because they are more open and less restrictive.

Well put but I don't think it's helpful continuing this discussion Bro, as this has obviously become an ego thing. It was LA Vs Lifepo4 now Plyontech Vs DIY

Just for the record, if anyone is willing to give me pylontech equivalent of my current DIY Lifepo4 capacity for free I will gladly accept it.

However if someone is giving me the funds to make my choice, I will utilize it on a good Lifepo4 and get about 2x capacity of plyontech, just that it won't be pylontech.

One man's food is another man poison

adrusa:


Very funny. I think you have similar complex with @GeorgeD1. You think because you paid top dollar for some proprietary system, it must be better than the cheaper more open source option! You are very wrong.

Let me tell you what you may be aware of. I have a few network routers in my house; Linksys, TP-Link, Netgear, D-Link and Mikrotik. Aside the Mikrotik, the first thing I did to the other ones was to get rid of the factory firmwares that came with them and flash open source firmwares; DD-WRT, Gargoyle or OpenWRT. Yes, I got rid of the firmware developed with R& financial muscle of big network vendors like Linksys (Cisco and Belkin at various times) and put open source firmware developed by a bunch of small but very talented people working mostly for free.

Same with my expensive Samsung phones. I use open source modification I got from XDA from the likes of Dr.Ketan, an Indian ENT Surgeon. Yes, I abandoned Samsung's R& software for something developed by an hobbyist working at home in his spare time. My major grouse with iPad and iPhones is their ultra-proprietary nature. Some think that they are better, but certainly not in my book. That is why I'm a fan of android phones.

@GeoargeD1 believed that his heavy investment in LeadAcid Batteries makes them better than Lithium, while you think that your investment in PylonTech makes your battery better than ours. That may be true, but it has absolutely nothing to do with all you said above.

My personal experience is that non-proprietary systems tend to be more robust, less restrictive and better maintained than proprietary commercial systems. They also get better support from DIY community. It is the same reason why Linux is a more robust and stable production software than Windows. Of course, one of the first thing I did with my Felicity Lithium was to replace its BMS with ANT BMS. The Felicity BMS looks better and bigger, but I have absolutely no control over it. If I buy PylonTech, I will certainly change its BMS to this "DIY BMS" you disrespect so much because it didn't cost a arm and a leg. Things are not necessarily bad because they are DIY, or cheap, indeed, many times they are better, because they are more open and less restrictive.

We do share a lot of common interests - a love for Linux OS, Network Systems and Routers, Hacking stuff to make them better, I ditched Samsung for Xiaomi years ago, used to flash custom ROMs on my phone, dislike closed up IOS

But I don't think the PylonTech is better than other generic LifePO4 on the average, I know it is better based on the solid engineering behind it and a proven history of how it held up under long term (ab)use/testing - does that mean other batteries are bad? No!!! So long as they work for you. PylonTech works for me because of the integration with Victron's DVCC (distributed voltage and current control) model where the battery tells the solar chargers and inverters what to do per time. I am convinced the PylonTechs are overpriced and I really wish they were cheaper.

I want to clarify that I try very hard not to bash any product without justification. I also have limited experience with DIY Lithium partly on account of the horror stories I have heard and also because I only sell what I can easily support. I really hope a time comes when we can find quality and proven Lithium offerings at prices in the reach of the common man. So far PylonTech, BYD and Dyness are the few Lithium offerings I have some experience with. PylonTech I am probably expert at having played with them in so many scenarios and configs. This is exactly thesame way you are an expert in/with the tech and products you use.

We are all just trying to live our lives and do well. Let us leave off sharp criticisms and arguments that may begin to seem .....

adrusa:


Very funny. I think you have similar complex with @GeorgeD1. You think because you paid top dollar for some proprietary system, it must be better than the cheaper more open source option! You are very wrong.

Let me tell you what you may be aware of. I have a few network routers in my house; Linksys, TP-Link, Netgear, D-Link and Mikrotik. Aside the Mikrotik, the first thing I did to the other ones was to get rid of the factory firmwares that came with them and flash open source firmwares; DD-WRT, Gargoyle or OpenWRT. Yes, I got rid of the firmware developed with R& financial muscle of big network vendors like Linksys (Cisco and Belkin at various times) and put open source firmware developed by a bunch of small but very talented people working mostly for free.

Same with my expensive Samsung phones. I use open source modification I got from XDA from the likes of Dr.Ketan, an Indian ENT Surgeon. Yes, I abandoned Samsung's R& software for something developed by an hobbyist working at home in his spare time. My major grouse with iPad and iPhones is their ultra-proprietary nature. Some think that they are better, but certainly not in my book. That is why I'm a fan of android phones.

@GeoargeD1 believed that his heavy investment in LeadAcid Batteries makes them better than Lithium, while you think that your investment in PylonTech makes your battery better than ours. That may be true, but it has absolutely nothing to do with all you said above.

My personal experience is that non-proprietary systems tend to be more robust, less restrictive and better maintained than proprietary commercial systems. They also get better support from DIY community. It is the same reason why Linux is a more robust and stable production software than Windows. Of course, one of the first thing I did with my Felicity Lithium was to replace its BMS with ANT BMS. The Felicity BMS looks better and bigger, but I have absolutely no control over it. If I buy PylonTech, I will certainly change its BMS to this "DIY BMS" you disrespect so much because it didn't cost a arm and a leg. Things are not necessarily bad because they are DIY, or cheap, indeed, many times they are better, because they are more open and less restrictive.

You get what you paid for it's as simple as that

I will prefer to pay a premium for 1 single features in a system which make life easier, than spend less on counterpart without that feature

Dam5reey:
You get what you paid for it's as simple as that

I will prefer to pay a premium for 1 single features in a system which make life easier, than spend less on counterpart without that feature

That's the summary, once you have what meets your requirement then you are good to go. Pure water companies make water in sachet and bottles, some will go for sachet knowing that both contains same content. This won't make the person drinking from sachet die earlier than the one drinking from bottle or vice versa

Don't be too sure

ojeysky:


That's the summary, once you have what meets your requirement then you are good to go. Pure water companies make water in sachet and bottles, some will go for sachet knowing that both contains same content. This won't make the person drinking from sachet die earlier than the one drinking from bottle

ojeysky:


I actually think it is you who continue to make people feel lithium is some scary and deceptive thing, on reasons best known to you. If it was not better Niyi will not continue to accumulate(for business reasons or otherwise) and those who use it will not share their experiences (good or bad). It's no brainer that lithium is a superior chemistry to LA any day any time but that still doesn't mean that both chemistries won't appeal to us differently. Why you see experience sharing as being trickish is what beats my imagination, isn't that what this thread is about.

In my actual professional world it's over a decade now that operators are being adviced to deploy IPv6 but up till now IPv4 dominates, the difference however is that the number of networks running IPv6 now compared to a decade ago has increased significantly and it's only a matter of time before IPv4 will eventually be obsolete and relegated.

Ultimately the choice remains with each individual to either deploy the present technology with future relevance in mind or be caught unprepared.

This reminds me of the battle between Compact Discs Audio/Video and mp3/MP4. The latter does not suffer "scratching" of the plates like the former but it is still predisposed to being corrupted on storage drives if managed improperly. The difference in fidelity between the two is as clear as day. The entry of 1080p and 4k into the scene has rendered one obsolete while the other is a necessity. This does not mean that people still don't use CDs/DVDs but the trajectory clearly shows a gravitation to what has a much higher density, newer, cleaner and of course smaller form factor.

So if I encourage peeps to move from the Laser burned discs to Zeros and Ones on SoCs citing the gains of the new tech, it does not mean that it will not be vulnerable if managed improperly, but it clearly has advantages that trumps the old, which displaced an older tech during its own time and clearly had its own disadvantages too.

adrusa:


If I buy PylonTech, I will certainly change its BMS to this "DIY BMS" you disrespect so much because it didn't cost a arm and a leg. Things are not necessarily bad because they are DIY, or cheap, indeed, many times they are better, because they are more open and less restrictive.

Please if you buy the Pylontech, don't change the BMS, biko . The complexity of that circuitry is too much to just rip it out like that. Messing with the Felicity is easier on the conscience because they have decided to disrespect themselves and by extension mortgaged the respect for their product with false specs. I can decide to do experiment with a battery like that.

However with something like Pylontech, I will still wanna max out the warranty or ROI before deciding to conduct experiments on it just so to satisfy my curiosity.

Of course, if I have the bucks flowing like Otedola's (who I doubt is a DIY guy) or if you guys can happily contribute money for me to buy a pylontech; as a DIY enthusiast I will have no qualms with ripping apart that assembly on the first day of acquisition and even putting the video on you tube for you guys to see.

Remember that time that the legendary Fela turned a Benz 230 "regular" to a pick up truck just so to satiate his curiousity.

Barezzi:
Don't be too sure

Right edited to cover the other way round, various things could cause the death. The gist there is that our handling/way of use also matters in battery life span so long as we start with getting good cells (which is the most important content). Some battery manufacturers has hard-coded some usage culture in their BMS which is not a bad thing, while the DIY users will have to figure out theirs, that flexibility is what matters most for some users like me.

NiyiOmoIyunade:
More like mini war sessions.

Interesting nonetheless

Interesting points here..
Meanwhile, I have a couple of harvested 18650 lithium cells and I need to make a 48v 15-20Ah battery for a diy project but I currently don't have the time.

Is there anyone that can help test the harvested cells and assemble the battery?

BetaTechnicians:
Interesting points here..
Meanwhile, I have a couple of harvested 18650 lithium cells and I need to make a 48v 15-20Ah battery for a diy project but I currently don't have the time.

Is there anyone that can help test the harvested cells and assemble the battery?

Location?

This reminds me of the flooded battery vs sealed battery vs 2v battery argument, some years ago.,, Though not as epic as this....
Its normal to have different opinions, however i think the opinions of unbiased people who have used both battery chemistries would be a more balanced one.

@georged1,

I think your attempt to prove that lead acid trumps lithium is bais at best. Lithium technology has come a long way and beats lead acid in every department. Everyone keeps referring to your previous LA bank but that bank has a lot of untold stories. For one, I remember you had 800ah of battery capacity. You also had over 40kw of solar panels if I am not mistaking. You have also mentioned that you rarely cycle more than 30% daily. At 30% dod, most good LA batteries will easily do what the Zeniths did. It wasn't special. What you must note is that to get away with such low dod, you need to have a really large bank which you did and a large array too. For the average enthusiast, that is an impossibility as the initial outlay would be outrageous. You only got that longevity due to your use of the battery. If you look at the cycle life graphs of lead acids, you would find that there is a significant difference between discharging to 70% vs discharging to 50%. Are you now saying we should all get 800ah banks and 40kw panel capacity to be able to enjoy longevity with our batteries?

I ll summarize as follows

1- Firstly, even the second class lithium batteries advertise 3000 cycles at 80% dod with a 2 year warranty. That is something only the very best lead acid batteries can dream of. That is almost 10 years of battery usage if you do a cycle a day. Regular lead acids cap out in a couple of years at 50% DOD if you are lucky. Don't tell me, I have gone through a few banks.

2- Considering how bad our weather can be in the southern part of Nigeria coupled with struggling to get 3-4 hours of sunshine daily, it is a no brainer to use lithium which can charge at 1c should need be and get your battery to full capacity as quickly as possible especially in the raining season unlike with a lead acid battery that takes forever to charge at 0.1c and then has to do all the absorption thing. This is very important for people who rarely have grid electricity and/or have a small bank.

3- Lithium chemistry is way more efficient than lead acid and looses less energy to the storage and discharge process which means you have access to more energy per ah.

4- As a result of 4 above, you can power heavy appliances off relatively small banks. Something that would only be a dream with lead acid.

That you haven't embraced lithium doesn't make your lead acid bank better. The world is evolving and if you choose to remain with old technology, you may have your reasons. However, do not try to prove on a public forum that lithium is all hype. There are more than 15 active members on this thread who have made the switch to lithium and not 1 has anything negative to say about it 1 year down the line so what is your point exactly? People got burnt with lead acid for many years until the best brands were identified. Heck, people are still getting burnt even today so why assume lithium will burn you?

There is a reason phones and laptops use lithium and 10 years after, the batteries still work. Stick with your lead acid if you want but your arguments are obsolete.
Lead acid can never be better than lithium. Initial outlay, yes. Satisfaction over time, a BIG no. It is no longer a function of whatever works for you. Even though it works for you, you should be gracious enough to accept that there is something better out there. That I drive a Toyota Corolla and it works perfectly for me doesn't make the car better than a Lamborghini.

@niyi,

It would be lame for anyone to assume that diy lithiums would beat pylons in longevity. That would be wrong comparison. For 1, the fact that advertised cycle life for pylons is 6000 already says a lot. Price is another thing. The point however that you need to note is that if I buy grade b lithium for 1.5 million naira and you buy pylons of same capacity for 5 million naira, if my bank lasts 5 years and pylons last 10 years, I still got way better value for money than you did. I can afford to swap out after 5 years and still have great change. So it really shouldn't be about which battery would last longer, it should be about actual value for money or price per kw.

Thank you all.

BetaTechnicians:
Interesting points here..
Meanwhile, I have a couple of harvested 18650 lithium cells and I need to make a 48v 15-20Ah battery for a diy project but I currently don't have the time.

Is there anyone that can help test the harvested cells and assemble the battery?

Assembling 18650 cells can be a wee bit time consuming. You will need a charger - discharger to determine the capacities left. But in the absence of that you could use a reliable 18650 power bank with replaceable batteries. You will just make do with a voltmeter this time around.

Have a completed 48v/28ah 18650 already just for experimental use. Assembled in 2 units of 7s14p so that it can be disassembled and reconfigured for 24v use if needed, all in a cosmetically acceptable enclosure/casing. Included is Daly BMS, DCB and XT60 plugs (which I'm planning to change to Anderson plugs), to later add voltmeters and change the terminals to inverter types when order arrives.

I'm on the second pack, done with the first half of this second pack and waiting for the day I'll have time for the second 7s14p. Due to the protest, it seems the BMS for this, the voltmeters and other accessories are stuck in transit.

I'll advice you create time a self-DIY.

Which reminds me, is there a place one can get the terminals in the attached picture in Nigeria which will be a lot easier than ordering from aside?

ojeysky:
This is for folks like me who are using axpert variants for their lithium batteries that experience a well known early float bug. The work around for this is to set bulk and float at the same voltage e.g 28v which is a high voltage to float lithium. In my case before now, I just manage with 27.4v float and wait it out until the battery get full. However with solpiplog running on my pi and BMV in the mix, I am now able to automate that as follows:

@>91% SOC set float at 27v
@<90% SOC set float at 28v

That way the optimal juice from my panels goes into my LFP. So if you have a way to achieve the above you will be able to work around the float bug.
Renewable energy is both the present and future!

Have a good week ahead!

Does this affect felicity too? There's an installation that I have hardly noticed it being at above 14v, anytime I go by it, I notice battery always sitting at 13.5, maybe once or twice I've seen it increase.
it's lead acid and 24v. Though the load hardly reaches 100w throughout the day and battery has never gone below 12.9 - 12.7.

BetaTechnicians:


Does this affect felicity too? There's an installation that I have hardly noticed it being at above 14v, anytime I go by it, I notice battery always sitting at 13.5, maybe once or twice I've seen it increase.
it's lead acid and 24v. Though the load hardly reaches 100w throughout the day and battery has never gone below 12.9 - 12.7.

The workaround was applicable to most axpert and it's clone variants (including felicity) that are used to charge lithium batteries. Yours is behaving that way because it's basically full hence the charger is doing it's job as it's designed for LA charging

ceaser:


Please if you buy the Pylontech, don't change the BMS, biko . The complexity of that circuitry is too much to just rip it out like that. Messing with the Felicity is easier on the conscience because they have decided to disrespect themselves and by extension mortgaged the respect for their product with false specs. I can decide to do experiment with a battery like that.

However with something like Pylontech, I will still wanna max out the warranty or ROI before deciding to conduct experiments on it just so to satisfy my curiosity.

Of course, if I have the bucks flowing like Otedola's (who I doubt is a DIY guy) or if you guys can happily contribute money for me to buy a pylontech; as a DIY enthusiast I will have no qualms with ripping apart that assembly on the first day of acquisition and even putting the video on you tube for you guys to see.

Remember that time that the legendary Fela turned a Benz 230 "regular" to a pick up truck just so to satiate his curiousity.

I understand your point. Actually, I'm a itchy finger when it comes to tearing down my equipments, so, if I get a Pylontech I will most probably void the warranty within one month. That is often enough time to know whether the product has a factory error which is usually the basis of warranty coverage.

I used to be concerned about voiding warranties, but for things I buy from abroad for which obtaining warranty claims are usually serious hassles I really don't bother. Lithium batteries are even easier. Once it is clear that the batteries used are fine, I'm okay. For Felicity, I think the batteries are okay and I'm very unlikely to need the warranty.

200Ah 12v Quanta battery available (brown carton), #140,000. Call/WhatsApp us on 08168986461

200Ah 12v felicity battery available, #100,000. Call/WhatsApp us on 08168986461

200Ah 24v and 48v Felicity lithium ion batteries still available. Call/WhatsApp us on 08168986461

ceaser:


Please if you buy the Pylontech, don't change the BMS, biko . The complexity of that circuitry is too much to just rip it out like that. Messing with the Felicity is easier on the conscience because they have decided to disrespect themselves and by extension mortgaged the respect for their product with false specs. I can decide to do experiment with a battery like that.

However with something like Pylontech, I will still wanna max out the warranty or ROI before deciding to conduct experiments on it just so to satisfy my curiosity.

Of course, if I have the bucks flowing like Otedola's (who I doubt is a DIY guy) or if you guys can happily contribute money for me to buy a pylontech; as a DIY enthusiast I will have no qualms with ripping apart that assembly on the first day of acquisition and even putting the video on you tube for you guys to see.

Remember that time that the legendary Fela turned a Benz 230 "regular" to a pick up truck just so to satiate his curiousity.

there is nothing there to be scared of. I played with the first set I got last year

JUO:
there is nothing there to be scared of. I played with the first set I got last year

Is this a bomb or battery biko

dollarnaira:


Is this a bomb or battery biko

Bomb boko type��

How do you carry this?

JUO:
there is nothing there to be scared of. I played with the first set I got last year

Thanks for sharing. Irrespective of whatever they are called, most lithium batteries have a basic configuration; prismatic batteries, usually connected in series, with a BMS. The major differentiator is the quality of the battery. It is presumed that First Tier producers like Battleborn, Victron, Outback and Pylontech will use high quality grade A batteries. That is their main advantage.

wilmaria14:

Bomb boko type��

Just wondering how to charge up 12v 1000amp battery

Penuelseun:
Location?

Lagos, Nigeria.

ceaser:


Assembling 18650 cells can be a wee bit time consuming. You will need a charger - discharger to determine the capacities left. But in the absence of that you could use a reliable 18650 power bank with replaceable batteries. You will just make do with a voltmeter this time around.

Have a completed 48v/28ah 18650 already just for experimental use. Assembled in 2 units of 7s14p so that it can be disassembled and reconfigured for 24v use if needed, all in a cosmetically acceptable enclosure/casing. Included is Daly BMS, DCB and XT60 plugs (which I'm planning to change to Anderson plugs), to later add voltmeters and change the terminals to inverter types when order arrives.

I'm on the second pack, done with the first half of this second pack and waiting for the day I'll have time for the second 7s14p. Due to the protest, it seems the BMS for this, the voltmeters and other accessories are stuck in transit.

I'll advice you create time a self-DIY.

Which reminds me, is there a place one can get the terminals in the attached picture in Nigeria which will be a lot easier than ordering from aside?

You're quite right and I do have the charging/discharging tools(with the resistor thing too) I also have 18650 powerbank cases but something I don't have nowadays is time & it is really essential for diy. I really miss the days I had free time... lol
If there's someone that can do a neat and safe job I'll love to hand it over. I once saw someone here that even used fuses, I'd prefer such type of coupling for safety.

Unfortunately you may have to import it, I doubt you'll find that item anywhere.

ojeysky:


The workaround was applicable to most axpert and it's clone variants (including felicity) that are used to charge lithium batteries. Yours is behaving that way because it's basically full hence the charger is doing it's job as it's designed for LA charging

Oh.. good, thanks.