₦airaland Forum

Samunique:
@illicit

John 17:6
[6]I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word.

What can you say about the above scripture, where the Lord Jesus said He has manifested God's name, which name is He referring to here, since we cannot actually pronounce this name as it were?

Remember the same Jesus asks us to hallow God's name in the Lord's prayer.

DappaD:
What do you mean by ‘Old Testament preachers’ if I may ask?

Samunique:

Thanks !
I think I'll agree with the bold, considering John 1:18 that says "No one has ever seen God but His Son has revealed who He is, that's, manifesting His essence and whole character most especially, as a true loving God."
Not exactly the way He was sometimes portrayed by the old testament preachers, as a hash, uneasy to please and ever demanding God which was a misconstrue of His real nature.
Jesus actually manifested the loving nature aspect of God while also warning us of His just nature which is, "His righteous judgement over all evil and wickedness of man and the fallen Angels.


Whereas, the old testament preachers did not have much understanding about His true nature, which is LOVE !


Hence Jesus statements in John 17:6 that "I have manifested thy name," and by this he has thus fulfilled John 1:18.
Thanks so much !
I think I agree with your expectations.

DappaD:
Let me keep in mind that the ‘old testament preachers’ you're referring to are who lived from Adam to right before the first century. If so, then the Bible might surprise you that Jehovah has always been a God of love.(1John 4:

Everything he has done from the Old Testament to the New Testament has always been motivated by love. Jehovah gives instructions and commandments for our own advantage so if we use our freewill to obey we'll come to see the last benefits.(Deuteronomy 30:16-20, Psalm 119:165, Isaiah 48:17-18)
Jehovah reproves those whom he loves. (Proverbs 3:12)
As a loving Father, he cannot live man to his own way without guidance else man will fall into error and confusion.(Psalm 37:5, Proverbs 3:5-6, Jeremiah 10:23)

In fact, that he sent his only-begotten Son to the earth to die for the sins caused by the first man Adam, is an act of love.(Galatians 4:4-5, John 3:16, 1John 4:10)
Jesus' death and resurrection that was foretold by a number of prophets before his time.(Psalm 16:10, Isaiah 53:8,12, Daniel 9:24-26)

So don't please don't assume that Jehovah suddenly became a loving God when he sent Jesus to the earth because love has always been his most dominant quality since eternity as the reason why he created humans in the first place is because of LOVE.(1John 4:19)

DappaD:
Yes you are right. Jesus did make known the name of his Father while he was on earth. Check Mark 12:29-30 and see that it is a direct quote from Deuteronomy 6:4-5.

So you see that Jesus indeed used his Father's name even though scribes and Jewish religious leaders tried to extinguish the name of Jehovah from the Scriptures.

Samunique:
I was referring to the old testament Prophets and to some extent the religious leaders during Jesus' time.


For example, remember the story of Elisha and those kids in book of second Kings ?

Samunique:
I think you need to go back to my post and read again and again.
I never said our God suddenly changed from what He used to be, I said His true nature which is LOVE was not truly understood by the people under the old covenant until Jesus came and show the world what His true nature is.

John 1:18, 3:16-18, 17:16, 1john 3:1.


Hope you understand ?

DappaD:
Jehovah's prophets were nothing like the Jewish religious leaders in Jesus' time.
Maybe you don't know that coming against an anointed one of God is a serious offence and is tantamount to rebelling against God himself.
Elisha was an anointed prophet of Jehovah so respect ought to be accorded to him.(1Kings 19:16)
Those little brats knew exactly what they were doing when they insulted Elisha, showing disdain for his office as God's prophet and representative.(2Kings 2:23-24)
So that served as a reminder to onlookers never to show disrespect for Jehovah's anointed one.

Jesus himself is an Anointed One of God. Do you think that Jesus couldn't command a legion of angels to destroy all those who came to arrest him?(Matthew 26:53)
But no, he didn't do that because a lot of things were at stake at that moment and God's will had to be accomplished.(Matthew 26:39,54)

Samunique:

Now the bold has really justified my argument !
Do think if Jesus was Elisha he would have commanded the destruction of those kids ?
He wouldn't bcs he came to preach love which the true nature of God.
Now why do you think God finds fault with the old covenant, if it truly represented all that He is?
The people under the old covenant understood God apart, the more He tried to get closer the farther they went.
Now consider this scripture:
Isaiah 1:3
The ox knoweth his owner, and the ass his master's crib: but Israel doth not know, my people doth not consider.
The fault was not with God but the people, and the same is till happening in our days, if not more. But cannot change, He is Who He is !
NB. Concerning Elisha, I am not blaming him for the act bcs of the covenant under which he was. That is THE LAW.
Now let me ask you, did the apostles not suffer worst humiliation than that of Elisha ?
Were they not anointed, did they not perform miracles even more, like Elisha?
Didn't they have power to cause destruction if they wanted but choosed
to remain calm even in the face of worst humiliation?

What has changed here is the understanding of the true nature of God which is LOVE, and this is what the old testament people lacked but thought everything was all about tooth for tooth and tat for tat. But eventually when Jesus came to the scene, he tried to change this wrong perception of theirs, unfortunately they misunderstood him and took him for a rebel, blasphemer, and impostor who has come to change their LAW, even when he tried to tell them the mind of God.
Hope you get me now ?
Though I have many things to say, then I'm lazy of type.

DappaD:
Everything you've said so far is nice and all but you see the words I highlighted, me and you will never agree on those terms.
You can say they didn't come to know all of Jehovah's qualities and purposes to the fullest sense but to say they didn't know at all is out of the question.

DappaD:
A lot of things were made clear when Jesus came to the earth. I'm saying that the Old Testament does not picture Jehovah as a harsh God like you did. Jehovah has always been abundant in loyal love.(Exodus 34:6)
His qualities are listed therein and the writers of the Old Testament were well acquainted with them.(Deuteronomy 32:4, Psalm 103:8-10, Joel 2:13, Jonah 4:2)

You are right when you say Jesus did explain in word and showed in action the quality of his Father, which is LOVE to the fullest extent.(John 1:18)
He was able to reflect Jehovah's qualities to the point that he said if one had come to know Jesus, such one had come to know God.(John 14:9, see also Colossians 1:15)
That is what the manifestation of his Father's name means—it doesn't just end at pronouncing or getting familiar with the name ‘Jehovah’—but Jesus also helped his apostles and disciples come to understand what the name truly represented—the real meaning, God's amazing qualities, purposes and his way of dealing with humans. You were correct about that. I didn't dispute it at all.
My issue was when you said the OT writers didn't understand Jehovah's qualities, which is not true in any sense.

illicit:
When pharaoh asked Moses who sent him, what did Moses say?

MuttleyLaff:
"⁹Now, listen carefully! The cry of the Israelis has come to my attention about how severely the Egyptians have been oppressing them.
¹⁰So go! I am sending you to Pharaoh. Bring my people the Israelis out of Egypt.”
¹¹But Moses told God, “Who am I? How can I go to Pharaoh and bring the Israelis out of Egypt?”
¹²Then Godi said, “I certainly will be with you. And this will be the sign for you that it is I who sent you: When you have brought the people out of Egypt, all of you will serve God on this mountain.”
¹³Moses told God, “Look! When I go to the Israelis and tell them, ‘The God of your ancestors sent me to you,’ they’ll say to me, ‘What is his name?’ What should I say to them?”
¹⁴God replied to Moses, “I AM WHO I AM,” and then said, “Tell the Israelis: ‘I AM sent me to you.""
- Exodus 3:9-14

Please review the two questions put out in Exodus 3:13 and compare with the answer given in Exodus 3:14

illicit:
What did Pharaoh say again? Pharaoh said he hasn't heard of anyone with such name....

if I sent u an errand for example, then I ask u to tell whoever I sent u to that corper sent u, if the person has prior knowledge of me, they might easily recognise which particular corper u mean. as there are many corpers.

But if the person has never met me or didn't know which particular corper, the person will ask, which corper? then u will use my name i.e corper Tope or the corper that do wear black shade....

If I am sending u on a formal business, I will give you my real name, wether the person I am sending u to recognise or not, that's my name for future reference....

Pharaoh was a powerful king (god) he would have demanded straight answers from Moses, didn't u see that Moses was initially scared to go meet him.... giving Pharaoh equivocal answers would have endangered his life....

MuttleyLaff:
"¹Later, Moses and Aaron went in and said to Pharaoh, “This is what Yahweh, the God of Israel, says: Let My people go, so that they may hold a festival for Me in the wilderness.”
²But Pharaoh responded, “Who is Yahweh that I should obey Him by letting Israel go? I do not know anything about Yahweh, and besides, I will not let Israel go.”"
- Exodus 5:1-2

I see that we have a situation here where you dont want to accept the scripture in three point blank, emphatical and straightforward ways refused to say what God's personal name is, so I again reproduced one of such occassions shared previously with you on this thread, for you to first see that Yahweh is not God's personal name, then secondly, now answering your question about when Pharaoh asked Moses who sent him, what did Moses say. Well Moshe aka Moses repeated exactly the descriptor given him as in Exodus 3:14

I am not going to beat around the bush with, meaning I am going to cut to the chase. OK.

I have tried something similar with you when I asked you to please tell me who you are. Please tell me what your name is. Please tell me in a sentence what your Nairaland user ID name is and thanked you in advance for granting these easy, simple, innocent, harmless, point blank and straight forward requests, but you dodged and hid from granting the humble requests and answering the questions, so I will re-try with another approach, which is:
illicit, please start with using a first-person pronoun, introduce yourself to me, tell what your name is, tell me who you are and a few more things about yourself

illicit:
hmmmm but why do u want me to do that....

Preciousgirl:
What is the Tetragrammaton?

How is it rightfully pronounced?

What is the History underpinning the Tetragrammaton?

Thank you

Preciousgirl:
What is the Tetragrammaton?

How is it rightfully pronounced?

What is the History underpinning the Tetragrammaton?

Thank you

fiyinfoluwa29093:
What is the Tetragrammaton?

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How is it rightfully pronounced?

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What is the History underpinning the Tetragrammaton?

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Thank you

MuttleyLaff:
Tetragrammaton is a set of descriptor words about God, that is used to assuredly express the certainty of ''I AM" carrying the speaking sense of God, being the Being with infinite capabilities (i.e. infinite ability to do anything, infinite ability to be anything, infinite capacity to understand and respond to any situations et cetera)

The Tetragrammaton, is defining the limitless iterability of the Beingness of God (i.e. illogical and logical possibilities of who, whom, and what God can be, also where and when God can be)

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It linguistically, is pronounced, vocalised or articulated as Yahweh.

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The Tetragrammaton, in fact and actually, is a composition of Hebraic four letters, namely Y, H, W and H.

These four Hebraic four letters form the Hebrew word, from which the Hebraic four letters are transliterated as YHWH and are linguistically, pronounced, vocalised or articulated as Yahweh.

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To Yah be the Glory

Preciousgirl:
What is the Tetragrammaton?

How is it rightfully pronounced?

What is the History underpinning the Tetragrammaton?

Thank you

Preciousgirl:
What is the Tetragrammaton?

How is it rightfully pronounced?

What is the History underpinning the Tetragrammaton?

Thank you

Preciousgirl:
What is the Tetragrammaton?

How is it rightfully pronounced?

What is the History underpinning the Tetragrammaton?

Thank you

Preciousgirl:
What is the Tetragrammaton?

How is it rightfully pronounced?

What is the History underpinning the Tetragrammaton?

Thank you

MuttleyLaff:
... I already have been telling you that no one knows God's personal name, yet here you are, axe clung over head, insisting that your invented and artificial Latinized name Jehovah is God's personal name.

You're just making stronger, confirming my points for me and strengthening, proving the case that the name Jehovah, is invented, artificial and bogus. Thank you very much, lmso

The Hebrew letters designated for God, as I've earlier intimated you about, after transliteration is the word Yhvh or YHWH. The name Jehovah is a legacy word inherited from the period of Romanization influence of which your organisation later on adopted. There is no letter J, in Hebraic alphabet, so Jehovah cannot at all, in the real sense possibly be God's name. Just because Jehovah, allegedly is popular and in widely acceptance, doesnt take away the fact and truth it is bogus, that its an invented and artificial Latinized name.

Fyi the word Yahweh, is a descriptor and is not all God's personal name. The word comes from a root word that means "become, exist, self exist, to become," which is from how God told Moshe aka Moses to the tell the Israelites that "I will become what I choose to become" is who sent him to them when he asked for God's name. God sidestepped giving Moshe aka Moses any name but instead offered him the Yahweh descriptor (i.e. I AM that I AM or I AM who I AM or even I WILL BE WHAT I WILL BE or I will become what I choose to become)