"Hail Mary, full of Grace!"


And proclaim as instructed-
"All nations shall call me blessed!"


TGI Sunday.

Haba.
una dey doj d topic?
abi u don't know ur scripture?

debaj10:
"Hail Mary, full of Grace!"


And proclaim as instructed-
"All nations shall call me blessed!"


TGI Sunday.

Mary was not full of Grace. That line belongs to Jesus Christ as can be read in the Gospel according to John.

lol.
it's understandable dt many lack this knowledge.
how did Gabriel greet her?

Kobojunkie:
Mary was not full of Grace. That line belongs to Jesus Christ as can be read in the Gospel according to John.

debaj10:
lol.
it's understandable dt many lack this knowledge.
how did Gabriel greet her?

Look at it this way, Jesus Christ (the foetus inside of her at the time) was the one with the grace that she was supposedly full of. And when she finally gave birth to Him, Jesus Christ, she was no longer full of Grace because the one full of Grace had exited her.

So, yes, Jesus Christ is the one full of Grace, not Mary! And evidence of this false belief of yours is clearly seen in Jesus Christ's own admission when the same Mary, who came, along with His brothers, to see Him, Jesus Christ, out of concern for Him

Matthew 12 vs 46 - 50 (ERV)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
46. While Jesus was talking to the people, his mother and brothers stood outside. They wanted to talk to him.
47. Someone told him, “Your mother and brothers are waiting for you outside. They want to talk to you.”
48. Jesus answered, “Who is my mother? Who are my brothers?”
49. Then he pointed to his followers and said, “See! These people are my mother and my brothers.
50. Yes, anyone who does what my Father in heaven wants is my true brother and sister and mother.”

If you read carefully, Jesus Christ denied even His own mother at the time, saying that His mother and brothers are instead those who do the will of His Father in Heaven, and not those who claim to be so, simply on grounds of being biologically linked to His person

debaj10:
"Hail Mary, full of Grace!"


And proclaim as instructed-
"All nations shall call me blessed!"


TGI Sunday.

That the angel Gabriel saluted Mary when she was pregnant doesn't indicate Christian believers should be worshipping, praying to or glorifying Mary. This is idolatry = condemnation

Hail Jesus, full of Grace. King of Kings and Lord of Lords..

MrPRevailer:


That the angel Gabriel saluted Mary when she was pregnant doesn't indicate Christian believers should be worshipping, praying to or glorifying Mary. This is idolatry = condemnation

Hail Jesus, full of Grace. King of Kings and Lord of Lords..

soo…
ur saying what?
d angel was in error?
him go wrong message?!

debaj10:
soo…
ur saying what?
d angel was in error?
him go wrong message?!

The angel was not in error! Mary was carrying inside of her Jesus Christ, the one full of Grace, at the time of the greeting, was she not?

debaj10:
soo…
ur saying what?
d angel was in error?
him go wrong message?!

The Angel of God was saluting Mary because she was filled of the spirit of God as a result of carrying Jesus, hence the salutation.
The apostles and believers were also filled with the spirit of God.

She is no more carrying Jesus. She is a servant used by the Master, Jesus.

MrPRevailer:


The Angel of God was saluting Mary because she was filled of the spirit of God as a result of carrying Jesus, hence the salutation.
The apostles and believers were also filled with the spirit of God.

She is no more carrying Jesus. She is a servant used by the Master, Jesus.

So Mary backslided?� you guys are always sounding funny when it comes to the person of Mary. Please don't hate her because of the believe of Catholic less you become guilty. The womb that bears our salvation and the woman that raised our salvation till he started his work need honour, respect in fact we need to celebrate her as a woman who never joke with our salvation. Brother or sister that woman is great all women need to emulate her to raise a child for a better society.

holyDaniel:

So Mary backslided?� you guys are always sounding funny when it comes to the person of Mary. Please don't hate her because of the believe of Catholic less you become guilty. The womb that bears our salvation and the woman that raised our salvation till he started his work need honour, respect in fact we need to celebrate her as a woman who never joke with our salvation. Brother or sister that woman is great all women need to emulate her to raise a child for a better society.

Backslided from what? Judaism? :-/
Before Jesus Christ showed up on the scene at the age of 30/33, Mary was nothing but a Jewish lady who happened to have had a baby. That baby was the grace of God to the world, and without that baby in her womb, Mary was an ordinary Jewish woman bound by the Old Covenant, like every other Jewish person of her day.

After Jesus Christ started His ministry, Mary, like every other Jewish person out there had to repent, be baptized and believe in the person of Jesus Christ to gain Eternal life(Salvation). She, like the first Christians, had to submit her life and being to the government of the Spirit of God in order to become Born again. There was no special office for her.

Jesus Christ, our example, had to submit Himself to the Will the Father, and obey the commandments that God spoke to His followers through Him, the same as He taught His followers to, and the same way Mary would have had to in order to become a follower of Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ, as we know eventually laid down His life to complete the New Covenant/agreement between God and men, something no one else could besides Him.

Mary had to obey the exact same commandments that every follower of Jesus Christ was expected to, and it was not until Pentecost that she and her sons(Jesus Christ's brothers) got their chance at being baptized by the Spirit of God, along with the other followers of Jesus Christ. If she was so full of grace from the beginning, why did she have to wait till Pentecost or afterwards for this event since no one got sanctified(born of the Spirit of God) before Jesus Christ's death?

holyDaniel:

So Mary backslided?� you guys are always sounding funny when it comes to the person of Mary. Please don't hate her because of the believe of Catholic less you become guilty. The womb that bears our salvation and the woman that raised our salvation till he started his work need honour, respect in fact we need to celebrate her as a woman who never joke with our salvation. Brother or sister that woman is great all women need to emulate her to raise a child for a better society.

Mary backslided! Are you trying to sabotage my comment?
Mary is a Saint, a vessel of God. Just as every apostles and believers are.

Apostle Peter, Paul did alot of miracles. They won alot of souls to Christ.

You are overstating boundaries by praying to Mary. All catholics who die in this idolatrous religion will be rebuked and denied by her.

The Pharisees highly respected and idolized Moses. Jesus told them

John 5:45: Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father: there is one that accuseth you, even Moses, in whom ye trust.

Kobojunkiee:
The angel was not in error! Mary was carrying inside of her Jesus Christ, the one full of Grace, at the time of the greeting, was she not?

Was Mother Mary pregnant then?

Kobojunkiee:


If you read carefully, Jesus Christ denied even His own mother at the time, saying that His mother and brothers are instead those who do the will of His Father in Heaven, and not those who claim to be so, simply on grounds of being biologically linked to His person

Jesus didn't denied them, he was stating a term.
Even if you see me hanging out with my friends and one day I'm all alone, and you say "your friend is looking for you" and I replied, who are you calling friend, my friend know my whereabouts and doesn't need looking for me. In an hour time, you see me with such person saying what's up buddy, let's reach house small.

Stephenmoka4:
Jesus didn't denied them, he was stating a term.
Even if you see me hanging out with my friends and one day I'm all alone, and you say "your friend is looking for you" and I replied, who are you calling friend, my friend know my whereabouts and doesn't need looking for me. In an hour time, you see me with such person saying what's up buddy, let's reach house small.

Huh?
I can see from your rambling there that you have absolutely no idea of the importance of the statement Jesus Christ made there to His followers?

Stephenmoka4:
Was Mother Mary pregnant then?

Really?

Kobojunkiee:
Huh?
I can see from your rambling there that you have absolutely no idea of the importance of the statement Jesus Christ made there to His followers?

Read where I mentioned he was stating a term, everything is not literally.

Kobojunkiee:
Really?

Was she?

Stephenmoka4:
Read where I mentioned he was stating a term, everything is not literally.

What term?
Jesus Christ was in the midst of His unsophisticated followers and you claim He was not being literal?
In clear speaking, He informed those who came to get Him for His biological mother and brothers(who were concerned about the talk that He may have lost His mind), that instead His mothers and brothers were those who obeyed the will of His Father in Heaven and you said He was not being literal?
The same followers whom He instructed to deny their own family in order to qualify as His followers? Was Jesus Christ a hypocrite of sorts to you?

Kobojunkiee:
Huh?
I can see from your rambling there that you have absolutely no idea of the importance of the statement Jesus Christ made there to His followers?

Go back and do what Jesus Christ commanded of you. Become like a Child, even in your thinking - be sure to abandon everything you have ever been taught by man(including self) of God and the things of God - and let God teach you of Himself.

Stephenmoka4:
Was she?

Um... You didn't bother reading the book before responding?

Kobojunkiee:
Um... You didn't bother reading the book before responding?

Is that a yes or a no, simple answer instead of this long epistle.

Kobojunkiee:
What term?
Jesus Christ was in the midst of His unsophisticated followers and you claim He was not being literal?
In clear speaking, He informed those who came to get Him for His biological mother and brothers(who were concerned about the talk that He may have lost His mind), that instead His mothers and brothers were those who obeyed the will of His Father in Heaven and you said He was not being literal?
The same followers whom He instructed to deny their own family in order to qualify as His followers? Was Jesus Christ a hypocrite of sorts to you?
.

Similar case when he said he would build the temple in 3 days. He didn't denied them (literally). His mom is his mom, Jesus simply asked a rhetorical question and he termed those who obeys the will of the father as brothers, sisters and mother.
Was Mary going against the will of the father?

Stephenmoka4:
Similar case when he said he would build the temple in 3 days. He didn't denied them (literally). His mom is his mom, Jesus simply asked a rhetorical question and he termed those who obeys the will of the father as brothers, sisters and mother.
Was Mary going against the will of the father?

I know you are trying hard here to make an excuse for your belief that your mother mary is full of grace but the fact is clear. Jesus Christ did exactly what He commanded His followers to do in order to become worthy of Him. He is not simply the new Covenant agreement between God and man. He embodied it.
His followers were mostly unsophisticated and He lived LITERALLY in order to show them how to live as His followers. He told those who would follow after Him that they would have to hate father, mother, brother, sister, husband, wife, children etc. in order to become worthy of being born of His Spirit - the Spirit of Truth, all this is the Grace He was full of.

If your plan is to tag Jesus Christ as a hypocrite however and hence a liar as well, then continue!

Stephenmoka4:
Was Mary going against the will of the father?

You tell me! Was mary a follower of Jesus Christ at the time of this event?
Was her interest in what the Jewish leaders and her neighbours had to say of her son, Jesus Christ, according to the will of Jesus Christ's Heavenly Father?
Was mary living her life exactly as Jesus Christ commanded of His followers?

Kobojunkiee:
I know you are trying hard here to make an excuse for your belief that your mother mary is full of grace but the fact is clear. Jesus Christ did exactly what He commanded His followers to do in order to become worthy of Him. He is not simply the new Covenant agreement between God and man. He embodied it.
His followers were mostly unsophisticated and He lived LITERALLY in order to show them how to live as His followers. He told those who would follow after Him that they would have to hate father, mother, brother, sister, husband, wife, children etc. in order to become worthy of being born of His Spirit - the Spirit of Truth, all this is the Grace He was full of.

If your plan is to tag Jesus Christ as a hypocrite however and hence a liar as well, then continue!

Nobody is tagging Jesus Christ a lair or hypocrite, did you see anything like that there?

Read up Matt 12 : 46 - 50

48. He replied to him, “Who is
my mother, and who are my
brothers?” 49. Pointing to his
disciples, he said, “Here are
my mother and my brothers.

50. For whoever does the will
of my Father in heaven is my
brother and sister and
mother.”

48 - 49 : He asked a rhetorical question and show an obvious answer.

50. Here he termed the concept of the rhetorical question as "to those who do the father's will"

From 50. You can see that the word "sister" is added

debaj10:
lol.
it's understandable dt many lack this knowledge.
how did Gabriel greet her?

Actually sir, the greeting to her was not "Full of grace" but rather "Favoured one". The word recorded in Luke 1:28 is "κεχαριτωμένη (kecharitōmenē)" which is a description of a person's attitude and actions toward the one so labeled(in this case, God's attitude towards the recipient of the message).

The actual Greek phrase for "Full of grace" is "πλήρης χάριτος(pliris charitos)" and it describes a person's own character and capacity to bestow favor or grace(depending on context).
This exact phrase is used in only two places in the new testament
1) John 1:14: ....we beheld His glory, glory as of the only-begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth,". A description of Jesus and an allusion to Yahweh's own description of himself in Exodus 34:6(in greek of the time)
2) Acts 6:8: And Stephen, full of grace and power, was performing great wonders and signs among the people. In earlier verses of the same chapter, Stephen is said to be filled with the HolySpirit and with wisdom.
These are the only two places where the actual phrase "full of grace" occurs in the new testament.

The misunderstanding or mistranslation of Luke 1:28 comes from the Latin Vulgate which translated κεχαριτωμένη as "gratia plena"(which does mean full of grace in Latin). This is how the phrase Hail Mary, full of grace enters into church tradition.
Though today it's well known that the phrase is a mistranslation of the Greek , too much Catholic doctrine has been attached to this phrase for centuries that it would probably take a monumental shift before it can be removed from Catholic tradition.
Outside of Catholic traditions though no major translation renders the passage as full of grace but rather renders it more accurately as favoured one or highly favoured.

Hope that helps.

Stephenmoka4:
Nobody is tagging Jesus Christ a lair or hypocrite, did you see anything like that there?

Read up Matt 12 : 46 - 50

48. He replied to him, “Who is
my mother, and who are my
brothers?” 49. Pointing to his
disciples, he said, “Here are
my mother and my brothers.

50. For whoever does the will
of my Father in heaven is my
brother and sister and
mother.”

48 - 49 : He asked a rhetorical question and show an obvious answer.

50. Here he termed the concept of the rhetorical question as "to those who do the father's will"

From 50. You can see that the word "sister" is added

There is nothing rhetorical about the question He asked there
Again, to His those who will follow after Him, Jesus Christ said the following...

Matthew 10 vs 34-39
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
34. “Do not think that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace. I came to bring trouble.[h]
35. I have come to make this happen:
‘A son will turn against his father.
A daughter will turn against her mother.
A daughter-in-law will turn against her mother-in-law.
36. Even members of your own family will be your enemies.’
37. “Those who love their father or mother more than they love me are not worthy of me. And those who love their son or daughter more than they love me are not worthy of me.

Yes, in order to become worthy of being Born of the Spirit of God, one would need to deny Father, mother, brother, mother, sister, etc. in Order to follow after Jesus Christ.

Later on, the same Jesus Christ, in front of those who follow Him, did exactly as He had commanded them.

Matthew 12 vs 46 - 50 (ERV)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
46. While Jesus was talking to the people, his mother and brothers stood outside. They wanted to talk to him.
47. Someone told him, “Your mother and brothers are waiting for you outside. They want to talk to you.”
48. Jesus answered, “Who is my mother? Who are my brothers?”
49. Then he pointed to his followers and said, “See! These people are my mother and my brothers.
50. Yes, anyone who does what my Father in heaven wants is my true brother and sister and mother.”

Jesus Christ had already replaced talk of his earthly Father with His Heavenly Father and so went on to deny his earthly mother and brother as well, explaining that those who did the Will of His Heavenly Father and Mother are in fact those who are of His Family... His Church.

Kobojunkiee:

You tell me! Was mary a follower of Jesus Christ at the time of this event?
Was her interest in what the Jewish leaders and her neighbours had to say of her son, Jesus Christ, according to the will of Jesus Christ's Heavenly Father?
Was mary living her life exactly as Jesus Christ commanded of His followers?

Follower of Christ; No, she is his mother.

And what did the Jewish leaders said?

Mary kept those words at heart.

Mary lived a holy life and of humility, she didn't live the opposite of what Jesus Christ commanded of his followers.

Kobojunkiee:
There is nothing rhetorical about the question He asked there
Again, to His those who will follow after Him, Jesus Christ said the following...

Yes, in order to become worthy of being Born of the Spirit of God, one would need to deny Father, mother, brother, mother, sister, etc. in Order to follow after Jesus Christ.

Later on, the same Jesus Christ, in front of those who follow Him, did exactly as He had commanded them.

Jesus Christ had already replaced talk of his earthly Father with His Heavenly Father and so went on to deny his earthly mother and brother as well, explaining that those who did the Will of His Heavenly Father and Mother are in fact those who are of His Family... His Church.

It is a rhetorical question (Google rhetorical question as meaning fof better comprehension)

...would deny his father, mother, family etc, do you even understand what that means? What do you understand by the concept deny Finally derailed.

MrPRevailer:


Mary backslided! Are you trying to sabotage my comment?
Mary is a Saint, a vessel of God. Just as every apostles and believers are.

Apostle Peter, Paul did alot of miracles. They won alot of souls to Christ.

You are overstating boundaries by praying to Mary. All catholics who die in this idolatrous religion will be rebuked and denied by her.

The Pharisees highly respected and idolized Moses. Jesus told them

John 5:45: Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father: there is one that accuseth you, even Moses, in whom ye trust.

My brother, the way you go to your pastor who is still flesh and blood for prayers is thesame way we go to Saint like Mary who have overcome the world and became victorious over death, who we believe is in Union with Jesus(John 14:20) for prayers.

holyDaniel:

My brother, the way you go to your pastor who is still flesh and blood for prayers is thesame way we go to Saint like Mary who have overcome the world and became victorious over death, who we believe is in Union with Jesus(John 14:20) for prayers.

You are very correct there about both acts being idolatrous practices which are against God's very commandments in both the Old Covenant and certainly Anti-Christ by New Covenant Standards.

God is the same God of the Old and New Covenant and He has not changed His mind about the worship/serving of graven images, or gods of flesh and blood.

Jeremiah 17 vs 5-6 (ERV)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
5. Thus says the Lord: “Cursed is the man who trusts in man and makes flesh his strength,[a] whose heart turns away from the Lord.
6. He is like a shrub in the desert, and shall not see any good come. He shall dwell in the parched places of the wilderness, in an uninhabited salt land.

P.S. Anything you put your trust in other than or assume you do so in addition to God, is a god onto you.

holyDaniel:

My brother, the way you go to your pastor who is still flesh and blood for prayers is thesame way we go to Saint like Mary who have overcome the world and became victorious over death, who we believe is in Union with Jesus(John 14:20) for prayers.

Mary is not praying for you. Her works are over. She is resting.

Hebrews 4:10
"For he that is entered into his rest, he also has ceased from his own works, as God did from his. he that."

The Bible said we have ONE ONE ONE (1) advocate and intecessor; Jesus Christ. Why don't you just pray only to Jesus Christ and escape unnecessary danger/mistake that can cost you your soul, for eternity

Colossians 2:18
"Let no man beguile you of your reward in a @voluntary humility and worshipping of angels, intruding into those things which he hath not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind"

Kobojunkiee:
Backslided from what? Judaism? :-/
Before Jesus Christ showed up on the scene at the age of 30/33, Mary was nothing but a Jewish lady who happened to have had a baby. That baby was the grace of God to the world, and without that baby in her womb, Mary was an ordinary Jewish woman bound by the Old Covenant, like every other Jewish person of her day.

After Jesus Christ started His ministry, Mary, like every other Jewish person out there had to repent, be baptized and believe in the person of Jesus Christ to gain Eternal life(Salvation). She, like the first Christians, had to submit her life and being to the government of the Spirit of God in order to become Born again. There was no special office for her.

Jesus Christ, our example, had to submit Himself to the Will the Father, and obey the commandments that God spoke to His followers through Him, the same as He taught His followers to, and the same way Mary would have had to in order to become a follower of Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ, as we know eventually laid down His life to complete the New Covenant/agreement between God and men, something no one else could besides Him.

Mary had to obey the exact same commandments that every follower of Jesus Christ was expected to, and it was not until Pentecost that she and her sons(Jesus Christ's brothers) got their chance at being baptized by the Spirit of God, along with the other followers of Jesus Christ. If she was so full of grace from the beginning, why did she have to wait till Pentecost or afterwards for this event since no one got sanctified(born of the Spirit of God) before Jesus Christ's death?

May God have mercy on you, the woman that born Jesus is not with the spirit of God? God have mercy on your soul. Mary is full of the Holy spirit she is chosen to be as the Angle rightly said.
Luke 1:27-30,34-35
[27]to a virgin betrothed to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David; and the name of the virgin was Mary.
[28]And upon entering, the Angel said to her: "Hail, full of grace. The Lord is with you. Blessed are you among women."
[29]And when she had heard this, she was disturbed by his words, and she considered what kind of greeting this might be.
[30]And the Angel said to her: "Do not be afraid, Mary, for you have found grace with God.
[34]Then Mary said to the Angel, "How shall this be done, since I do not know man?"
[35]And in response, the Angel said to her: "The Holy Spirit will pass over you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you. And because of this also, the Holy One who will be born of you shall be called the Son of God.
It is the spirit of God in her that inspired this.
The Magnificat:
Luke 1:46-55
[46]And Mary said: "My soul magnifies the Lord.
[47]And my spirit leaps for joy in God my Saviour.
[48]For he has looked with favor on the humility of his handmaid. For behold, from this time, all generations shall call me blessed.
[49]For he who is great has done great things for me, and holy is his name.
[50]And his mercy is from generation to generations for those who fear him.
[51]He has accomplished powerful deeds with his arm. He has scattered the arrogant in the intentions of their heart.
[52]He has deposed the powerful from their seat, and he has exalted the humble.
[53]He has filled the hungry with good things, and the rich he has sent away empty.
[54]He has taken up his servant Israel, mindful of his mercy,
[55]just as he spoke to our fathers: to Abraham and to his offspring forever."
Is it still the Holy spirit in her that made her to cause the first miracle of Jesus in cana John 2:1-8
[1]And on the third day, a wedding was held in Cana of Galilee, and the mother of Jesus was there.
[2]Now Jesus was also invited to the wedding, with his disciples.
[3]And when the wine was failing, the mother of Jesus said to him, "They have no wine."
[4]And Jesus said to her: "What is that to me and to you, woman? My hour has not yet arrived."
[5]His mother said to the servants, "Do whatever he tells you."
[6]Now in that place, there were six stone water jars, for the purification ritual of the Jews, containing two or three measures each.
[7]Jesus said to them, "Fill the water jars with water." And they filled them to the very top.
[8]And Jesus said to them, "Now draw from it, and carry it to the chief steward of the feast." And they took it to him.
Beloved its is wrong of You to call this woman a Judaism even after delivering to the world the saviour.