TAO11:
Lol! It is impossible to defend Benin against Ife and not lie — it’s mutually exclusive literally.

They will soon come here to tell you of how the Ogisos are not originally from Ife Ife but from the sky — or they will deny the Ogisos altogether!

They could care less about their own historical traditions which admits the Ogisos (at least the first three) to be emissaries from Ife.

The could careless about their own traditional accounts which indicate that their ADA and their EBEN were despatched from Ile-Ife — despite corroborative archaeological evidence.

Like I always tell them, inferiority complex is a bastard.

Obalufon:
70yrs ago these people were barely clothed....Comparing themselves with Ile-ife is insane..Ile-ife is up their with Egypt and Greek civilization

TAO11:


The bolded is almost exactly how scholars have expressed the comparison of the Ife sculptures with the best from other parts of the world.

(1) “How, in a comparatively obscure corner of this vast and backward continent could an art and a technique have flowered that take their stand beside the best ever evolved by the elaborate civilizations of Europe and Asia?"

~ W.R. Bascom, “The Illustrated London News,” (8 April 1939), p. 592.


(2) The Ife sculptures "would stand comparison with anything which Ancient Egypt, Classical Greece and Rome, or Renaissance Europe had to offer".

~ Frank Willett, “Ife and Its Archaeology,” The Journal of African History, Vol. 1, No. 2 (1960), p. 239.

I have personally never read of any art historian anywhere in the whole wide world who thinks Benin sculptures stand a worthy (or even remote) comparison with those of Ancient Egypt, Classical Greece and Rome, or Renaissance Europe. Never!

Ideadoctor:
honestly, I was also amazed by the ife heads,they look so real and they portrays emotions, I was like that German archeologist,that said he did not believe the indigenous people are actually the artist,that it was art of the lost Atlantis, but when it became certain that ife people are the artist, I was sooooo proud of my anscenstors, they were not without civilization and not primitive as I assumed they would be,they made good use of their brains, when I read the comment of those authors you cited above,I immediately agreed with them, Benin art are only numerous in number, but they are not realistic and beautiful like ife art

Ideadoctor:
honestly, I was also amazed by the ife heads,they look so real and they portrays emotions, I was like that German archeologist,that said he did not believe the indigenous people are actually the artist,that it was art of the lost Atlantis, but when it became certain that ife people are the artist, I was sooooo proud of my anscenstors, they were not without civilization and not primitive as I assumed they would be,they made good use of their brains, when I read the comment of those authors you cited above,I immediately agreed with them, Benin art are only numerous in number, but they are not realistic and beautiful like ife art

Ideadoctor:
honestly, I was also amazed by the ife heads,they look so real and they portrays emotions, I was like that German archeologist,that said he did not believe the indigenous people are actually the artist,that it was art of the lost Atlantis, but when it became certain that ife people are the artist, I was sooooo proud of my anscenstors, they were not without civilization and not primitive as I assumed they would be,they made good use of their brains, when I read the comment of those authors you cited above,I immediately agreed with them, Benin art are only numerous in number, but they are not realistic and beautiful like ife art

TAO11:

To summarize the bolded:
Benin Art = Quantity.

Ife Art = Quality.
—————————
Moreover, I’d like to clarify a very important point here:

The German archaeologist whom you referred to is Leo Frobenius.

In 1910, he visited numerous Ife sites and uncovered an impressive collection of stone and terra-cotta artworks.

His (now quite understandable 1910 stereotypical reaction) emanates solely from his observation that those Ife works stand far above and beyond any “negro” artwork he has ever encountered.

[Now here is the specific crux I’m getting at] Despite his quite demeaning reaction, he was an expert who, as an expert, observed from his fieldworks, that the Ife artwork were produced locally.

Yes, a lot of people who pay little or no attention to the details often misconstrue his reaction to mean that the Ife sculptures were produced in some foreign land. No never said or implied that.

His reaction (although with stereotypes) admit that the Ife sculptures were produced locally in Ife — he couldn’t deny this fact from his own expert observations.

Although he admits that the sculpture were produced locally in Ife, his stereotypical twist was that Ife (and the larger Yoruba area to which it belongs) must have been home to white people in the distant past long before negros came to occupy the area from them.

Although, this view is not only unsupported by any evidence; it is disproven by archaeological and linguistic evidence which shows plainly that Yorubaland have continually been home to negroes for thousands of years before the production of the sculptures.

I will quote the specific words of Leo Fronenius so you can be sure that he is not being misrepresented. He writes:

"Eloquent of a symmetry, a vitality, a delicacy of form directly reminiscent of Ancient Greece, and a proof that, once upon a time, a race far superior in strain to the negro, had settled here."

~ L. Frobenius, “The Voice of Africa,” 1913, pp.88-89.

Cc: balogunodua, Babtoundey.

Obalufon:
Ife people were not only making beaautiful art sculptures from metals ,they were also smelting rocks ,making glass into ornament and intricate items like bowl and jeweries and beads the same glass making technique used in Egypt that is why most white scholars thought ile- Ife is extention of Egypt civilization ....We invented fast cothing weaving machine used by men faster than the female large cotton looming version which was also invented by us and introduced to our subsaharan Africa neighbor which prior were clothed in loins and hides or raffia like the ibos

samuk:
[s]Yet it took the European 400 years after consistently visiting Benin before Yoruba land was first visited in 1824.

The European were practically resident in Benin from the moment they step into the city in the 1400s. It took them some 400 years to leave Benin and visit Yoruba.

If Ife was so sophisticated as claimed, the Europeans with their inquisitiveness would have visited to see for themselves and may have even named a monument after her like the Bight of Benin.

Benin to Ife is less than 200 miles, yet the Europeans who had mission and residence in Benin since the 16th century didn't deemed it fit to go and see this so called cradle, sophisticated and centre of Yoruba culture called Ife.

Tao already told us that the reason the European didn't visit Yoruba land was because they were afraid of mosquitos, bacteria, Yoruba land didn't have deep sea port and Benin climatic environment was different from Yoruba climate.

Tao told us the Europeans were waiting to discover antibiotics and antimalaria drugs before taking such life strengthening risks.

The problem with trying to build an empire/kingdom on nothing is to start stealing other people's history and making them yours.

Benin/Ife relationship is not earlier than 1800s, prove me wrong for all to see.

Ife, Oduduwa, Oranmiyan didn't enter into Benin history till the 1800s.

Yoruba European eyewitness historical accounts started in 1824, anything earlier than that are conjectures, unsubstantiated myths and oral history without history evidence.

Archaeologically, Ife is not earlier than 16th century.

There are no evidence that the sculpture you guys are showcasing were made in Ife.

Nigeria have two empires/kingdoms, the Benin empire which lasted for 500 years and Sokoto caliphate which started in the 1800s.

Oyo and Ife have no eyewitness historical evidence and accounts backing them earlier than 1824.

Yoruba have no independent verifiable history earlier than 1824. Yoruba history started proper in 1824. Everything about Yoruba history before 1824 can't be substantiated.

These are the irrefutable facts.[/s]

TAO11:
The Beni Style:

Recycle the already refuted lame points.

@Obalufon, don’t waste your time with this fraud — the refutation to his flood of tears is found on this same thread,

Samuk, enjoy your life in denial. What’s important is that Benin lies (including the ones you just attempted to reppedle) have been busted on this very thread.

And everyone is aware.

samuk:
[s]The first time the European visited Yoruba hinterland was 1824, 400 years after reaching Benin. Nothing can change this. The historical time difference between Benin and Yoruba is 400 years.[/s]

TAO11:
Lol No, the Europeans visited Yorubaland before Benin.

Is there any reason why you keep lying to yourself?

And what point were you aiming at even if your lie had been true?

TAO11:


The Europeans would not dare penetrate the hinterland of the west Africa forest at a time when the knowledge of medicine was still at its infancy. The discovery of the first true antibiotic is only a very recent success.

They knew therefore that they were to settle in cities, town, or villages close to the coast. And the coastal area of the “Nigeria” region was not an exception.

They settled for these reasons along and around the coast and had their first contacts and continued relationships with the coastal Yorubas (Itsekiri, Aworis, and Ijebus) and then with Binis also after that.

Their latter heavy presence in Benin was due primarily to topographical reasons. The coast of Ughoton (unlike those of Lagos, Ijebu, and Ilaje) was way deeper, and thus easily serves as a natural harbour capable of taking their large ships.

Early approaches to the coast of Lagos were relatively more difficult due to sandbars. The Ijebu and Ilaje coasts had no access even comparable to that of Lagos.

In case you were wondering, the Europeans didn’t come to west Africa flying above the region with some airplanes from which they sighted Benin kingdom and decided to land. Naa![/size]

Cheers!

TAO11:


Yes, the hinterland of the West Africa forest in general was a breeding ground for malaria considering the higher concentration of mosquitos against which the Europeans have very low to zero immunity.

Areas closer to the coast and father from the hinterland were relatively safer.

In fact, Father Columbine de Nantes who visited Benin City in the early 1600s cited this reason (in one of his letters back home to the French authorities) as one of the advantages of basing their missionary center in Benin City.

He said “priests can live here with greater ease than in other parts of the Guinea because of the healthy climate”

Also, yes the first discovery of a TRUE antibiotic in the whole wide world wasn’t until very, very recently.

samuk:

Very painful, pele o. 400 years historical gap between Benin and Yoruba is not jock.

TAO11:
I would make you cry today, @samuk: There are no Bini dullards here in case you’re wondering.

You thought you would peddle lies freely thinking everyone had gone.

samuk:
[s]You have your previous comments to argue with, when the tears are too much you can invite some of your fans to help wipe them.

No amount of lies you dig up change the fact that Yoruba hinterland got their first European visit in 1824. Next you will steal Lagos, Itsekiri history that were under Benin kingdom as part of Yoruba land.[/s]

TAO11:
[color=#990000]

The Ijebus, Lagos, Jekri have recorded European history from the late 1400/early 1500. The same period as Benin.

So, I’m not sure what gap you’re talking about.

Oh! Perhaps you’re talking about the 100 years gap in favour of Yoruba — from when Ife was first penned down by the Arab traveler at a time when Benin was no where to be found.

samuk:


The first time the European visited Yoruba hinterland was 1824, 400 years after reaching Benin. Nothing can change this. The historical time difference between Benin and Yoruba is 400 years.

Obalufon:
Useless fool 400yrs after reaching Benin Slowboy..Portuguese were dealing with aworis and ijebus in Lagos and the ilajes and the Ajashe of Potnovo almost100yrs before knowing about Benin kingdom through the itsekiris .. Even Benin is yoruba colony

samuk:
Incase you forgot, the Lagos and Jekri, the Europeans visited were under Benin kingdom.

So when European were visiting and living in Benin. An Arab traveller penned something down about Ife.Is that it?

Pele, o. Omo see damage control. Lagos Ijebu and Jekri to the rescue.

Take heart. 400 years historical gap is not a joke.

samuk:


Incase you forgot, the Lagos and Jekri, the Europeans visited were under Benin kingdom.

So when European were visiting and living in Benin. An Arab traveller penned something down about Ife. Is that it? Pele, o. Omo see damage control. Lagos Ijebu and Jekri to the rescue.

Take heart. 400 years historical gap is not a joke.

TAO11:
No they were not.

Just as the Ijebu they visited is not.

No! An Arab documented about Ife 100 years before Benin could be heard of.

Do you mean this in the sense of Benin to the rescue of Edo land?? LMAO!

I understand that it takes you some religion before waking up to reality.

Since that the case, hear it again: There is no 400 years gap. These coastal Yorubaland have their written EUrOpEaN history from the same period as Benin.

The only gap is that Ife was penned into writing 100 years before Benin will be noticed.

samuk:
The Lagos European visited was part of Benin kingdom.

No amount of insults will cure this public disgrace you and Tao have brought upon the Yoruba race. 400 years historical gap Between Benin and Yoruba/Ife is not beans or moimoi.

We are talking about your so called sophisticated cradle of Yoruba civilisation Ife, you are calling on potnovo to the rescue. It's not only Potnovo you will call, it's pot belly .

Obalufon:
Fool idolize the whites as the source of their civilization We are totally different from you apes we do not see the pale skin as something special That is why your white masters think we yoruba are different from all you monkeys .Some white scholar even think we are from Egypt ,lot of book are out their about the exceptional brilliancy of Yorubas race to the extent they are looking up our DNA

samuk:
Tao, stop embarrassing yourself, please just stop. People will read your comments on this thread and the reasons you gave why the European didn't visit the hinterland of Yoruba till 1824.

Whilst your Yoruba people will always stick by you, your Igbo fans are going to be very disappointed in this your outing.

TAO11:
No it is not.

And Ife was documented a hundred years before Benin could be noticed.

No amount of insults will cure this public disgrace you and Tao have brought upon the Yoruba race. 400 years historical gap Between Benin and Yoruba/Ife is not beans or moimoi. Except that there is no 400 years between Benin and Ijebu/Lagos/Itsekiri documentation.

The only gap is that with which Ife is ahead of Benin.

We are talking about your so called sophisticated cradle of Yoruba civilisation Ife, you are calling on potnovo to the rescue. It's not only Potnovo you will call, it's pot belly . And Ife was documented before Benin.

The coastal Yorubas were documented in the same time as Benin.

Yes, you need it repeatedly sounded to your ears before you give up your lies. It’s a Benin thing

samuk:
Okay, I idolise the white whilst Tao idolise the Arab traveller she called upon to rescue Ife, the pride of the Yoruba race, while you idolise Egypt.

samuk:
We are not discussing your fictional Ife mention by an Arab traveller

,we are discussing when the hinterland of Yoruba was first visited by Europeans. The year was 1824.

No amount of diversion will/can change this date.

Ife was so great Bla Bla Bla and yet not visited until the 1800s.

samuk:


The Lagos European visited was part of Benin kingdom. No amount of insults will cure this public disgrace you and Tao have brought upon the Yoruba race. 400 years historical gap Between Benin and Yoruba/Ife is not beans or moimoi.

We are talking about your so called sophisticated cradle of Yoruba civilisation Ife, you are calling on potnovo to the rescue. It's not only Potnovo you will call, it's pot belly .

Obalufon:
Are you high on OGOGORO "" Lagos Benin Kingdom ke !! When the Ijebu are controlling the water way of Lagos ..Benin influence in Lagos was through the Portuguese explorer that brought Benin Royal to Lagos aboard their ship because Lagos was Portuguese Anchor /quay and is small portion of Lagos Island the prince later became a king because of his royal lineage of Ife Every Benin Royal speak Yoruba... First king of Lagos Ashipa 1682-1716 ..Portuguese were in Lagos since 1472 .. over 200yrs

Obalufon:
Are you high on OGOGORO "" Lagos Benin Kingdom ke !! When the Ijebu are control the water way of Lagos ..Benin influence in Lagos was through the Portuguese explorer that brought Benin Royal to Lagos aboard their ship because Lagos was Portuguese Anchor /quay and is small portion of Lagos Island the prince later became a king because of his royal lineage of Ife Every Benin Royal speak Yoruba... First king of Lagos Ashipa 1682-1716 ..Portuguese were in Lagos since 1472 .. over 200yrs