Good day Peeps

Disclaimer: THIS IS BUKATYNE's THREAD

Intro: It is a long read

It recently dropped in my heart/mind that the two reigning philosophies (feminism/women) and (red pill/men) are anti-Christianity i.e. you cannot be a Christian and be a modern-feminist or a red piller. In addition to the points below, modern-feminism and red pill fan the ambers of distrust between both sexes. And if both sexes distrust themselves, how can they fulfill God’s mandate on earth which includes dominion and multiplication? How can they live in harmony?

The Bible gives us ample guidelines on human relations in all spheres of life; marriage (most affected by the gender war), society, workplace, parent-children, domestic staff/workers etc.

MODERN FEMINISM: Why modern? The first wave seeking equal opportunities for men and women aligns with the tenets of Christianity. Modern/mainstream feminism here refers to (although not limited to) seeking equal outcomes, rejection of godly patriarchy, anti-marriage, anti-men/malehood, acceptance/support of homosexuality/transgender/intersex/abortion, systemic destruction of men, refusal to acknowledge differences in gender, rejection of a woman’s role in marriage (housekeeping/nurturing of children), support of immorality under the guise of ‘it is my body’, wanting to ‘copy men to do wrong’ instead of insisting on the right thing, rejection of God etc. etc. We get the idea.

RED PILL: In summary, this is a philosophy for men that ‘highlights who women are’ and how to ‘game’ them especially sexually.
> First off, red pill never ’highlights the fault of men’ and one wonders if they are perfect. The Bible tells us to remove the log in our eyes before removing the speck in our neighbor’s eyes. It is also a sign of pride and thinking highly of yourself to list only the ‘fault’ of another party and how you want to deal with them without taking stock of yourself and how you can be a better person. Psalm 36: 2 In their own eyes they flatter themselves too much to detect or hate their sin.
> Secondly, the focus on sex (sadly outside marriage which is fornication {another sin} especially on Nairaland is ridiculous. A man who has arrived is one spinning plates aka joggling women without the intent to commit (marry) to anyone of them. Proverbs 31:3: Give not thy strength unto women, nor thy ways to that which destroyeth kings.
> Thirdly, the subtle/explicit hatred for women is anti-love your neighbor as yourself or do unto others what you want others to do unto you. Ephesians 4:31 Get rid of all bitterness, rage and anger, brawling and slander, along with every form of malice. 1 John 3:15: 15 Anyone who hates a brother or sister is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life residing in him. 1 John 4:20 Whoever claims to love God yet hates a brother or sister is a liar. For whoever does not love their brother and sister, whom they have seen, cannot love God, whom they have not seen. Compare the positive attitudes of men/fathers/husbands in the Bible viz a viz the red pill.

As Christians, we know that everyone has their role which does not make them inferior to others with ‘seemingly more important roles.’ As succinctly said by Dr. Myles Monroe, ‘there is nothing as tragic as excelling in a wrong role.’ I remember a story ‘attributed’ to Pastor Kumuyi: God showed him his mansion in Heaven and he saw a gigantic one beside it. Out of curiosity, he inquired and God told him it belonged to a lady sweeping/interceding in his Church. To people of the world, the girl is a nonentity doing something ‘irrelevant.’ To God, she was playing her role in Kumuyi’s mission and doing it well. For instance, Samuel served God by serving Eli (1 Sam 3:1); the first Deacons in the Bible (described as Spirit filled) were chosen to serve food to widows. The Deacons were appointed because the Apostles were distracted from teaching the gospel by serving. They did not think it was beneath them to serve. Peter was sent as an Apostle to the Jews while Paul was sent as an Apostle to the Gentiles. Some of the Apostles with Jesus did not write a page of the Bible while Apostle Paul wrote thirteen books etc. It neither diminished their importance nor denied them assess to heaven. Read Luke 22:24-27 for an idea of 'positions'

Christianity teaches the following amongst others:
Servant-leadership and upliftment: Jesus Christ washed the feet of His disciples, cooked for them etc. Jesus the Creator left His glory and became flesh like us. Imagine a King leaving his kingdom to resettle in another town where nobody knows him. Jesus prayed that we would do greater works than He did and empowered us for it.

Responsibility even when not convenient: Paul was shipwrecked and arrested yet he still took his assignment to preach the gospel around seriously. Going to the Cross was not easy for Jesus either. He wept at a point when His assignment overwhelmed Him yet He did not give up or think of Himself. Luke 22:44: He prayed more fervently, and he was in such agony of spirit that his sweat fell to the ground like great drops of blood.

Leaving vengeance for God/Forgiveness: At the Cross, Jesus still prayed for his enemies; Joseph son of Jacob forgave his brothers; we are enjoined to forgive 70 * 7 times daily etc.

Willingness to forgo your ‘rights’ for peace/greater good and humility: Jesus taught ‘if they slap your left cheek, turn the right one’, if someone offends you, forgive 70 * 7, endurance, patience etc. etc. Philippians 2: 1 – 11 is a fantastic read.

Mercy: Joseph the husband of Mary and Joseph (is it the name?) the son of Jacob win this award. Joseph (Mary’s husband) found out she was pregnant while engaged to him and supposedly a virgin. In the state of hurt and disappointment, he was still contemplating how to break the engagement without ‘disgracing’ Mary. We also know Joseph the son of Jacob who forgave his half brothers who sold him into slavery and Potiphar’s wife who set him up.

Love and Compassion: the Bible is a story of love. All the law and prophets has been compressed into two: 1. Love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul and with all your mind. 2. Love your neighbor as yourself. Again, the Bible is filled with stories of Jesus’ compassion; to his disciples, to his opponents, to sick people around, to those who rejected Him etc.

Putting others before yourself: Ephesians 5:21 tells us to submit one to another. Same with other verses in Paul’s epistles which teaches us to treat one another with humility and mercy.

Harmony: Hebrews 14:12 Follow peace with all men and holiness without which no man shall see the Lord. Colossians 3:12-13: Put on then, as God's chosen ones, holy and beloved, compassionate hearts, kindness, humility, meekness, and patience, bearing with one another and, if one has a complaint against another, forgiving each other; as the Lord has forgiven you, so you also must forgive.

Contentment: Godliness with contentment is great gain. Just how we are different parts of the body of Christ hence different functions/gifts/roles, we have different roles in the church, families, workplace, society etc. We should embrace those roles and ask for the grace to do them well.

So my dears, you cannot be a modern feminist/red piller and be a Christian. You cannot serve two masters; you need to choose your master.

I leave us with this Bible passage:
Colossians 2:8, KJV: "Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ."

Colossians 2:8, NLT: "Don't let anyone capture you with empty philosophies and high-sounding nonsense that come from human thinking and from the spiritual powers of this world, rather than from Christ."

Regards,
Bukatyne

Well captured and ended with an appropriate passage from the Bible, Colossians 2:8

See to it, then, that no one enslaves you by means of the worthless deceit of human wisdom, which comes from the teachings handed down by human beings and from the ruling spirits of the universe, and not from Christ. (Good News Translation)

Arrrrrrrh

Absolutely defined.
More grace !!!

Which one is more effective

Nice write-up Buka.

Although, I think the Nigerian version of the "red pill" is highly misconstrued.. the movement is supposed to represent a mass awakening of men into the realisation that they've been handed a bad deal in modern relationships and marriage.

We live in a time where the very essence of masculinity is being branded as toxic/misogyny.. men are not allowed live in their true nature anymore, yet are still expected to remain traditionally chivalrous.. still providing and protecting women who are now supposedly "equal" to men and told to forgo their own nature to nurture the home and submit under her husband's authority.

..the many subgroups within the redpill movement all have a common goal .. and that is to reject the terrible aftermath of modern feminism as you have clearly explained in your write-up i.e.increased abortions (murder), rude, bitter and promiscous women, broken homes, displaced children, enmity between man and woman etc...

Too bad Nigerians have hijacked the term red pill as a excuse for throwing profanity and spreading sexual decadence.. Makes it hard for anti 'modern-feminism' women like myself to truly take a stance against the absolute depravity feminism has become.

The clash of three philosophies. The best option is either to adopt none or that which suits your agenda.

Depends on which type of Christianity you practice.

Some Bible verses strongly endorse a few redpill teachings.

Lovely write up Bukatyne

But i must address your definition of TRP and what you feel it is all about.
TRP does not teach men how to game women. There is a whole other teaching on how to game women, which is called "GAME". It is different from TRP.
TRP teaches men about Solipsism of women, how to identify it and how to handle it. It also teaches men to put focus and develop themselves. Now, i know i have corrected you before about your definition or what you perceive to be TRP, obviously you did not believe me. So maybe you can download and read this book, ""The Rational Male; Positive Masculinity" by Rollo Tomassi

https://www.pirate-bay.net/search?q=the+rational+male+by+Rollo+Tomassi?q=the+rational+male+by+Rollo+Tomassi

Also, i like the way you tried to differentiate between modern feminism and the 'so called first wave feminism', those women that fought for equal opportunities.
I have stated before, not to you though, that those women never called themselves feminists(i stand to be corrected) they were never known as feminists, rather they were known as suffragettes, there were also others that fought for 'equal pay for equal'.

it is these modern feminists that co-opted their fight and triumphs, in order to gain recognition or whatever and called them the first feminists.
If you go back to the past to any of the suffragettes and told them they were feminists, they would not know what you are talking about.

I believe you should have just focused on the true evil, which if feminism, it never was and it never will be a good thing.

The concept of the redpill especially in Nigeria and on Nairaland symbolizes hatred, disdain and bitterness towards the opposite, and that cannot be Christian.

Most of them come across as atheists. And I doubt that the ones who are Christians even understand that their redpill cannot coexist with christianity.

Wisdom is profitable to direct.

Good afternoon everyone, happy Sunday.

Mindlog:
Well captured and ended with an appropriate passage from the Bible, Colossians 2:8

See to it, then, that no one enslaves you by means of the worthless deceit of human wisdom, which comes from the teachings handed down by human beings and from the ruling spirits of the universe, and not from Christ. (Good News Translation)

Thank you Mindlog

You are first to comment on this thread, 600years of enjoyment for you!

The Good News Translation is also explicit.

Ekakamba:

You say?

gaius01:
Arrrrrrrh

Absolutely defined.
More grace !!!

Thanks my brother

engrtee:
Which one is more effective

More effective as in?

If modern-feminism is your thing and you agree with all their teachings, then you cannot be a Christian.

If you are Christian, you cannot be a modern-feminist.

Decide the values that work for you.

ImaIma1:
The concept of the redpill especially in Nigeria and on Nairaland symbolizes hatred, disdain and bitterness towards the opposite, and that cannot be Christian.

Most of them come across as atheists. And I doubt that the ones who are Christians even understand that their redpill cannot coexist with christianity.

Wisdom is profitable to direct.

Same with the concept of modern-feminism.

It cannot co-exist with Christianity.

Wisdom is truly profitable to direct.

DontBullshitMe:
Depends on which type of Christianity you practice.

Some Bible verses strongly endorse a few redpill teachings.

Type of Christianity kwa?

Are there different types? Not doctrines; Christianity?

The tenets I put up there are general to all professing Christians.

Care to share the Bible verses?

YourCoffin:
The clash of three philosophies. The best option is either to adopt none or that which suits your agenda.

The second sentence got me laughing.

sweetmelanin:
Nice write-up Buka.

1. Although, I think the Nigerian version of the "red pill" is highly misconstrued.. the movement is supposed to represent a mass awakening of men into the realisation that they've been handed a bad deal in modern relationships and marriage.

2. We live in a time where the very essence of masculinity is being branded as toxic/misogyny.. men are not allowed live in their true nature anymore, yet are still expected to remain traditionally chivalrous.. still providing and protecting women who are now supposedly "equal" to men and told to forgo their own nature to nurture the home and submit under her husband's authority.

3. ..the many subgroups within the redpill movement all have a common goal .. and that is to reject the terrible aftermath of modern feminism as you have clearly explained in your write-up i.e.increased abortions (murder), rude, bitter and promiscous women, broken homes, displaced children, enmity between man and woman etc...

4. Too bad Nigerians have hijacked the term red pill as a excuse for throwing profanity and spreading sexual decadence.. Makes it hard for anti 'modern-feminism' women like myself to truly take a stance against the absolute depravity feminism has become.

Thanks

1. While the Nigerian version is misconstrued, the red pill itself is anti-Christianity. The men are doing what the modern woman also claims to do: 'oh men/women are bad! Let me join them/develop a persona as a revenge against them'. Look at feminism: started well, spoke for women who could not vote, get education, treated poorly etc and we lauded it till it graduated to what it has become today. That is always the end result of any human led Philosophy; we don't have 'brakes' and will keep pushing till destruction.

2. True

3. The Christian way to reject the aftermath is to ensure the Church is not swept in the wave by constant teachings. On a personal level, it is to choose well. I believe if you ask God for a life partner as a man, he wouldn't give you a woman you have to resort to red pill to keep/lead.

4. I understand you. I have taken a stance against them Biko. I came across an article by Matt Walsh (author in Ben Shapiro's Daily Wire) where he said American Christians are not close minded enough and it started a shift and I opened a thread on it. Jesus hates fence sitting aka lukewarmness Biko.

Quite an articulated post. I believe, however, that every crass and opportunistic or self-absorbing person personifies toxicity (if not evil) whether or not the person professes/identifies with Christianity/Religion, Red Pill, or Feminism. Unfortunately, they make up the majority in these circles.

I doff my hat to all conscientious men and women whether or not they identify with any organized religion, ideological movement, or dogmatic ideology.

Love is the greatest refreshment in life, and conscientious people are the personification of love. Jesus Christ, whom Christians modeled their religion on, is/was a conscientious human being.

angelfallz:
Lovely write up Bukatyne

But i must address your definition of TRP and what you feel it is all about.
TRP does not teach men how to game women. There is a whole other teaching on how to game women, which is called "GAME". It is different from TRP.
TRP teaches men about Solipsism of women, how to identify it and how to handle it. It also teaches men to put focus and develop themselves. Now, i know i have corrected you before about your definition or what you perceive to be TRP, obviously you did not believe me. So maybe you can download and read this book, ""The Rational Male; Positive Masculinity" by Rollo Tomassi

https://www.pirate-bay.net/search?q=the+rational+male+by+Rollo+Tomassi?q=the+rational+male+by+Rollo+Tomassi

Also, i like the way you tried to differentiate between modern feminism and the 'so called first wave feminism', those women that fought for equal opportunities.
I have stated before, not to you though, that those women never called themselves feminists(i stand to be corrected) they were never known as feminists, rather they were known as suffragettes, there were also others that fought for 'equal pay for equal'.

it is these modern feminists that co-opted their fight and triumphs, in order to gain recognition or whatever and called them the first feminists.
If you go back to the past to any of the suffragettes and told them they were feminists, they would not know what you are talking about.

I believe you should have just focused on the true evil, which if feminism, it never was and it never will be a good thing.

Thanks

I have gone through Rollo Tomassi's blog and even created a thread or two from his blog.

Rep Pill on the surface is like modern feminism: let's teach men how to 'understand' women. Until you step out of the bubble, you don't see the danger.

What is the positive thing red pill teach about women?

What negative things have red pill noticed about men and advised them to change?

How does the teaching of red pill compare to the Bible? Would you have called the men in the Bible Red pillers?

You cannot be a red piller and a Christian.

bukatyne:


Same with the concept of modern-feminism.

It cannot co-exist with Christianity.

Wisdom is truly profitable to direct.

What do you mean by modern feminism and how does homosexuality relate with feminism?Also feminism is different in every society because what is advocated for is different depending on the society.
Also Christianity is influenced by culture and the environment it is practised religion shpuld evolve to fit modern realities.

There was no time feminism aligned with the bible before the time of the first wave feminism a lot of scholars and strong men used christianity and religion as a reason for holding women back be sincere with yourself.
It is high time people stop mixing social issues with religious books that have been written years ago that may or may not meet with modern realities because life must definitely evolve.

I find your opinion a bit subjective. First of all, christianity is a religion and religion is the opium of the people. Therefore, you cannot use one belief to assess a whole movement or philosophy. Even christianity albeit a religion started like the feminism and redpill movement we witness today.......A rather free, irreligious, logical, rational n objective perspective would have sufficed instead.

Liposure:
I find your opinion a bit biased. Christianity is a religion and religion is the opium of the people. You cannot use one belief to judge a whole movement or philosophy. Christianity albeit a religion started like the feminism and redpill movement we are witnessing today. A free, irreligious, logical, rational, perspective would have been better.

Thank you well said.

No need to mix the issues

LordKO:
Quite an articulated post. I believe, however, that every crass and opportunistic or self-absorbing person personifies toxicity (if not evil) whether or not the person professes/identifies with Christianity/Religion, Red Pill, or Feminism. Unfortunately, they make up the majority in these circles.

I doff my hat to all conscientious men and women whether or not they identify with any organized religion, ideological movement, or dogmatic ideology.

Love is the greatest refreshment in life, and conscientious people are the personification of love. Jesus Christ, whom Christians modeled their religion on, is/was a conscientious human being.

Thanks.

@bold:

Exactly my point.

These philosophies are against what our model Jesus Christ taught.

Ladyhippolyta88:

Thank you well said.

No need to mix the issues

If you understand Christianity, you will know that you cannot hold Christianity on one hand and hold a philosophy anti-Christianity on another hand.

You need to pick a stand.

bukatyne:


Thanks

I have gone through Rollo Tomassi's blog and even created a thread or two from his blog.

Rep Pill on the surface is like modern feminism: let's teach men how to 'understand' women. Until you step out of the bubble, you don't see the danger.

What is the positive thing red pill teach about women?

What negative things have red pill noticed about men and advised them to change?

How does the teaching of red pill compare to the Bible? Would you have called the men in the Bible Red pillers?

You cannot be a red piller and a Christian.

The 1st bolded, i strongly disagree.
The 2nd bolded, TRP is for men. I believe there are books that teach women how to understand the nature of men.
The 3rd bolded, a lot. for example, it teaches men to focus and develop themselves, to invest in themselves.
The 4th bolded, no i would not call them red pillers. But you can not deny that men of old understood women, hence the various rules and traditions that were put in place to tame women's hypergamous nature. The men of old understood what it took to be a man, and embraced all the responsibilities that came with it, likewise the women.

You really need to read the book, just to understand the red pill. The blog is very structured and its too big for anyone to read and digest.

The last bolded, if TRP teaches men how to understand women's nature, how does that stop a man from being a Christian?

Liposure:
I find your opinion a bit biased. Christianity is a religion and religion is the opium of the people. You cannot use one belief to judge a whole movement or philosophy. Christianity albeit a religion started like the feminism and redpill movement we are witnessing today. A free, irreligious, logical, rational, perspective would have been better.

The OP is Christianity is anti Red Pill and Modern Feminism.

How can the post be irreligious

I weighed the two philosophies against Christianity and they don't measure up.

They can measure up against Sapona religion or Meta belief.

While a Christian would use the Bible to judge any other philosophy the same way a Muslim would measure any philosophy using his Quran to see if they measure up.

bukatyne:


If you understand Christianity, you will know that you cannot hold Christianity on one hand and hold a philosophy anti-Christianity on another hand.

You need to pick a stand.

When I was a christian I did.

I see religion as something personal between me and my God I don't mix both if it were so many christians would have discarded science a long time ago since they needed to pick a side.It is not in your place to pick what is anti-christian I don't like religious fanatism I see humans before anything else in my relationship with people.

angelfallz:


1. The 1st bolded, i strongly disagree.
2. The 2nd bolded, TRP is for men. I believe there are books that teach women how to understand the nature of men.
3. The 3rd bolded, a lot. for example, it teaches men to focus and develop themselves, to invest in themselves.
4. The 4th bolded, no i would not call them red pillers. But you can not deny that men of old understood women, hence the various rules and traditions that were put in place to tame women's hypergamous nature. The men of old understood what it took to be a man, and embraced all the responsibilities that came with it, likewise the women.

5. You really need to read the book, just to understand the red pill. The blog is very structured and its too big for anyone to read and digest.

6. The last bolded, if TRP teaches men how to understand women's nature, how does that stop a man from being a Christian?

1. Red Pill is anti-feminism so I understand you kicking against me grouping them together.

2. For it is be holistic, it has to teach all round. Imagine someone claims to try to understand his wife and all he tells you is negative. Won't you wonder if he reallys wants to 'understand' his wife or find faults till the marriage scatters? How can a philosophy claim to understand women by finding faults only? What conclusion do you expect to derive if not hatred (overt or covert).

3. Red Pill teaches men to develop and improve themselves; agreed. Does it tell men the negatives about their own nature? Let's agree all women are like that (how you have described them); are all men like that? Have the men removed the log in their eyes (oh, men are prone to be egoistic, let's improve by XYZ) before turning to women?

4. Men of old as per men in the Bible or our elders? Which Biblical laws were in place to 'tame' women's 'hygergamous' nature? ( What is a man's corresponding nature by the way?). Imagine Abraham in today's world where Sarah told him to send Haggai away or Joseph who was thinking of how to end his engagement to a Pregnant Mary without disgrace or Solomon who with his numerous wives still advised men to relax and enjoy the wives they love?

5. I hear you.

6. TRP cannot teach men to understand women's nature the way God wants it. Men themselves are fallen so what are they trying to understand?

Ladyhippolyta88:

When I was a christian I did.

I see religion as something personal between me and my God I don't mix both if it were so many christians would have discarded science a long time ago since they needed to pick a side.It is not in your place to pick what is anti-christian I don't like religious fanatism I see humans before anything else in my relationship with people.

1. Christianity is not a religion.

2. Science is not anti-Christianity. Even the Bible said knowledge would increase. Science is a product of that and amoral. A gun can be used to kill a terrorist or steal. There is nothing wrong with a gun, it depends on what you use it for.

3. I did not write the Bible so I cannot claim the place. I only outlined what is written in the Bible. You cannot be a Christian and subscribe to either of the two philosophies I listed above.

4. I don't understand how religious fanatism got into the discussion.

Ladyhippolyta88:

1. What do you mean by modern feminism and how does homosexuality relate with feminism?Also feminism is different in every society because what is advocated for is different depending on the society.

2. Also Christianity is influenced by culture and the environment it is practised religion shpuld evolve to fit modern realities.

3. There was no time feminism aligned with the bible before the time of the first wave feminism a lot of scholars and strong men used christianity and religion as a reason for holding women back be sincere with yourself.

4. It is high time people stop mixing social issues with religious books that have been written years ago that may or may not meet with modern realities because life must definitely evolve.

1. I sort of defined modern-feminism in the OP.

2. Christianity does not evolve. Jesus Christ is the same Yesterday, today and forever. He doesn't change. His standards are same.

3. The Bible was also used to justify slavery. When did the Bible become popularly read? Mischievous people would use the Bible to justify their desires especially to people who don't have assess to it. It did not start today. Even the Pharisees twisted the Scriptures in the Bible. Today, the Bible is still twisted to fit personal agenda.

4. Even in my office, you cannot join any organization that brings disrepute by association to them. Please refer to point 2.

bukatyne:


1. Christianity is not a religion.

2. Science is not anti-Christianity. Even the Bible said knowledge would increase. Science is a product of that and amoral. A gun can be used to kill a terrorist or steal. There is nothing wrong with a gun, it depends on what you use it for.

3. I did not write the Bible so I cannot claim the place. I only outlined what is written in the Bible. You cannot be a Christian and subscribe to either of the two philosophies I listed above.

4. I don't understand how religious fanatism got into the discussion.

1.Christianity is a religion and perfectly fits the description of what religion is.I don't have time to argue illusion about it not being a religion

2.Science does not agree with christianity Science tells us that the earth is spherical the bible says the earth has 4 corners.Science tells us we evolved and are animals and Dinosaurs once existed the bible tells us something different and many more in the mind of a fanatic it is anti-christian in the USA religious fanatics have argued that evolution and science should not be taught because it is anti-christian.Same can be said about nothing being wrong with feminism or christianity but it depends on how you use it.

3.You just said you did not write the bible so what gave you the right or authority to choose what philosophy is christian.The bible over time has been written,rewritten and edited so how do you interpret the bible do you take the literal approach?The bible is subject to different human interpretations and religion is influenced by culture so what makes you think your own interpretation of the holy book is supreme you seem to forget that there are many denominations of christianity and as such results in different interpretations

4.Religious fanatism came into the discussion when you tried to claim superior authority on who a christian is and what philosophies christianity supports and does not who gave you such authority?It spans from fanatism