₦airaland Forum

kingxsamz:
If you have freewill in heaven, then one must be able to commit sin just as you can on earth. That inability of not being able to commit sin in heaven is the definition of being a robot.
Then this god is not benevolent. You cannot see a child walking towards fire and be like "hey let's just see what happens".


Yes, very true.
When a word in the bible doesn't suit you or when
it makes your argument flawed, you give excuses and say "It's a methphor", "it's symbolic", "It doesn't really mean it", "it's a translation problem" Etc...


This is more like saying a child's freewill was taken if sharp objects around it were hidden.
The Adam and Eve case is like having a baby and putting sharp knives around it, then giving it a warning not to touch the knives, and eventually blaming the baby for hurting itself with the knives.

Can you even read what you wrote?
It's unjust for this god to just kill Satan, but it's just for it to kill millions of people in order to punish them for their sins and their father's sins, and also use their lives to play bet with this same Satan, just like it did with Job. welldone



Yeah. When I acquire some information about an assassination attempt on my friend, and I prevent it from happening, I'm interfering in their freewill.
Try something else.


If it didn't change, then you should follow the laws this god made in the old testament.
A perfect god's laws would be permanent without need to be abolished.


Maybe this perfect God shouldn't have left its creation in the same place with this tree of life?


You don't need another epistle for the violence part. You asked me to show you where this god killed and ordered people(Men, women and children) to be killed, and I did. You don't need to explain why.
You haven't done justice to my questions and my point still stands. Either this god is not perfect, or there are two different kinds. Thank you.

(1). I told you there is freewill in heaven, when God cast Satan down he ended the rebillion that Satan orchestrated in heaven (the exact reason why punishment in its is a dissentient for future violators.)

When souls who lived on Earth go to heaven, they don't think of violating heaven principles even with their free will because they have tested the seductions of the world and can't fall to the end of Satan (btw you can't escape all the temptation of the devil here just only to fall when in God's presence)

(2). A child is without knowledge they go to heaven if they die, not an adult that knows the difference between Good and Evil (Adam and Eve were told the consequences of their actions that's why they fell for the devil promises)

(3). What is changed in my explanation of regret, you regret simply because you are disappointed, you don't regret when things go well, disappointment brings regret (is that an entirely new explanation to the word?)

You are disappointed either because of your error or someone's else's and in this case it's man own error.

(4). Adam and Eve weren't kids, they were given everything to keep them comfortable, they were told the consequences of their actions, (you can blame God if they weren't told).

The tree in question wasn't some knive a kid runs into on the ground, it had a specific location including someone having to take the pain of climbing or stretching just to eat from the fruit (you can't carefully do all these and claim innocent)

(5). Satan can not die as you put it, it has everlasting existence (it has an everlasting disconnect from God's mercy which is a torment on its own, this was the state he wished for man)

Unfortunately for him man had not yet the tree of life like him so man could still be redeemed.

Death to man was attached to the tree of knowledge he ate from (from day one)

(6). God is not just a creator, he is also a judge, he can't be seen to be unfair in this role whether friend or not.

If God boasts in job and the devil is confident he would disappoint him, should God set aside this test from the devil?

would the devil not call God an unbiased God that sheilds him from testing them, did Satan not test God's own son.

(7). Jesus didn't come to abolish the law but to establish it (we still follow the obey your parents, no adultery, etc law)

8. God trusted his creatures enough to give them free will, there would be no concept of that same trust if he didn't trust them to keep his word as he commanded

Leaving them was a part of the freedom the freewill came with (because giving them freewill and gagging on it does not indicate trust which the freewill came with)

He didn't abadon them per-say he always came in the cool of the day.

I have taken pains to point every thing out, remove bias, if you assimilate it even from a theology perspective this God is perfect in everysense

kingxsamz:
But your bible stated that the origin of good and bad came as a result of Adam and Eve eating the fruit... No?
And if you say Satan sinned first, then you're also saying Heaven is a place where one is capable of committing sin, which contradicts your earlier statement that "you cannot sin where there is no sin".

i clearly remember telling you at one other time that the Bible was the history of MAN/HUMANS not necessarily satan or rocks. That would have brought you easily home to the point that the sin of humans is what you are referring to. Like you have inferred, satan sinned before man, but man's sin is traced to the first man, Adam.
Heaven is a place where man will not be capable of sin, i think it is better if i keep it simple and one by one that way. After man's creation, there was no sin on earth until Adam and Eve sinned. In other words, it is possible for sin to be taken out of a place or come to a place. In more simpler words, sin can be taken out of "heaven".

Mikecold:
(1). I told you there is freewill in heaven, when God cast Satan down he ended the rebillion that Satan orchestrated in heaven (the exact reason why punishment in its is a dissentient for future violators.)

When souls who lived on Earth go to heaven, they don't think of violating heaven principles even with their free will because they have tested the seductions of the world and can't fall to the end of Satan (btw you can't escape all the temptation of the devil here just only to fall when in God's presence)

(2). A child is without knowledge they go to heaven if they die, not an adult that knows the difference between Good and Evil (Adam and Eve were told the consequences of their actions that's why they fell for the devil promises)

(3). What is changed in my explanation of regret, you regret simply because you are disappointed, you don't regret when things go well, disappointment brings regret (is that an entirely new explanation to the word?)

You are disappointed either because of your error or someone's else's and in this case it's man own error.

(4). Adam and Eve weren't kids, they were given everything to keep them comfortable, they were told the consequences of their actions, (you can blame God if they weren't told).

The tree in question wasn't some knive a kid runs into on the ground, it had a specific location including someone having to take the pain of climbing or stretching just to eat from the fruit (you can't carefully do all these and claim innocent)

(5). Satan can not die as you put it, it has everlasting existence (it has an everlasting disconnect from God's mercy which is a torment on its own, this was the state he wished for man)

Unfortunately for him man had not yet the tree of life like him so man could still be redeemed.

Death to man was attached to the tree of knowledge he ate from (from day one)

(6). God is not just a creator, he is also a judge, he can't be seen to be unfair in this role whether friend or not.

If God boasts in job and the devil is confident he would disappoint him, should God set aside this test from the devil?

would the devil not call God an unbiased God that sheilds him from testing them, did Satan not test God's own son.

(7). Jesus didn't come to abolish the law but to establish it (we still follow the obey your parents, no adultery, etc law)

8. God trusted his creatures enough to give them free will, there would be no concept of that same trust if he didn't trust them to keep his word as he commanded

Leaving them was a part of the freedom the freewill came with (because giving them freewill and gagging on it does not indicate trust which the freewill came with)

He didn't abadon them per-say he always came in the cool of the day.

I have taken pains to point every thing out, remove bias, if you assimilate it even from a theology perspective this God is perfect in everysense

Lmao. This guy sha.
1 Abeg what is that thing that prevents people from committing sin even with freewill? Why wasn't it implemented in the first place before Adam and Eve ate the fruit? If they can't think of committing sin in this god's presence, then how come Satan was able to sin against this god? Hmm?

2

A child is without knowledge they go to heaven if they die, not an adult that knows the difference between Good and Evil (Adam and Eve were told the consequences of their actions that's why they fell for the devil promises)

Okay wait. Hold on.
You said a child is without knowledge, not like Adam and Eve (adults) who knew the difference between good and evil. But wait, is it not the same Bible that said Adam and Eve knew nothing about good and bad? So if the tree would make them have this knowledge, how in the hell did they know that what they were about to do was bad? Abeg think about it? What's the difference between Adam and Eve and a baby?


3 How can you be disappointed when you already saw it happen before it happened? As per omniscient... it's almost like throwing a bottle of wine from a three storey building and being disappointed that it broke.
And please doesn't regret come from one's mistake? If you made a mistake and the consequences plays out, won't you regret ever making that mistake? So why are you twisting the word?

4 Again. Adam and Eve were just like kids, they didn't know good or bad. So they can't decipher the level of consequences of their actions. Ponder on that, slowly.


5 If Satan cannot die, then this god is not Omnipotent. Straight up. No two ways about that.


6 A god that makes a bet with his long time villian, a bet which it knows the results already, at the expense of other people's lives, is not a perfect god. Read that again.

7 Deuteronomy 21:18-21 clearly says parents can bring their child out to the streets and stone them to death if the child is rebellious and stubborn. Another verse clearly says you should cut off your hand if it makes you sin. Why aren't you following those rules since this Christ you mentioned didn't abolish any law? Hmm?

8 So this god trusted its creation to keep to its commandments even though this god already knew they would disobey (as per omniscient)?
Hmm how interesting.


Mr man, we're going back and forth here, and you've done nothing but go round in circles repeating the same thing. Are you going to answer my questions or not?
I can't keep up with this.

Mikecold:
(1). I told you there is freewill in heaven, when God cast Satan down he ended the rebillion that Satan orchestrated in heaven (the exact reason why punishment in its is a dissentient for future violators.)

When souls who lived on Earth go to heaven, they don't think of violating heaven principles even with their free will because they have tested the seductions of the world and can't fall to the end of Satan (btw you can't escape all the temptation of the devil here just only to fall when in God's presence)

(2). A child is without knowledge they go to heaven if they die, not an adult that knows the difference between Good and Evil (Adam and Eve were told the consequences of their actions that's why they fell for the devil promises)

(3). What is changed in my explanation of regret, you regret simply because you are disappointed, you don't regret when things go well, disappointment brings regret (is that an entirely new explanation to the word?)

You are disappointed either because of your error or someone's else's and in this case it's man own error.

(4). Adam and Eve weren't kids, they were given everything to keep them comfortable, they were told the consequences of their actions, (you can blame God if they weren't told).

The tree in question wasn't some knive a kid runs into on the ground, it had a specific location including someone having to take the pain of climbing or stretching just to eat from the fruit (you can't carefully do all these and claim innocent)

(5). Satan can not die as you put it, it has everlasting existence (it has an everlasting disconnect from God's mercy which is a torment on its own, this was the state he wished for man)

Unfortunately for him man had not yet the tree of life like him so man could still be redeemed.

Death to man was attached to the tree of knowledge he ate from (from day one)

(6). God is not just a creator, he is also a judge, he can't be seen to be unfair in this role whether friend or not.

If God boasts in job and the devil is confident he would disappoint him, should God set aside this test from the devil?

would the devil not call God an unbiased God that sheilds him from testing them, did Satan not test God's own son.

(7). Jesus didn't come to abolish the law but to establish it (we still follow the obey your parents, no adultery, etc law)

8. God trusted his creatures enough to give them free will, there would be no concept of that same trust if he didn't trust them to keep his word as he commanded

Leaving them was a part of the freedom the freewill came with (because giving them freewill and gagging on it does not indicate trust which the freewill came with)

He didn't abadon them per-say he always came in the cool of the day.

I have taken pains to point every thing out, remove bias, if you assimilate it even from a theology perspective this God is perfect in everysense

Youre sharing your own opinion.
As a biblical scholar, it would help if you had biblical references for each of your point.

Image123:
i clearly remember telling you at one other time that the Bible was the history of MAN/HUMANS not necessarily satan or rocks. That would have brought you easily home to the point that the sin of humans is what you are referring to. Like you have inferred, satan sinned before man, but man's sin is traced to the first man, Adam.
Heaven is a place where man will not be capable of sin, i think it is better if i keep it simple and one by one that way. After man's creation, there was no sin on earth until Adam and Eve sinned. In other words, it is possible for sin to be taken out of a place or come to a place. In more simpler words, sin can be taken out of "heaven".

Nice.. Very nice.
So you've made it known that the sin of man has its source. So what is the source of Satan's sin?
Also, you've made it known that Only Humans cannot sin in Heaven, meaning that, Angels can commit sin if they want, whenever they like. OK cool.

kingxsamz:
Nice.. Very nice.
So you've made it known that the sin of man has its source. So what is the source of Satan's sin?
Also, you've made it known that Only Humans cannot sin in Heaven, meaning that, Angels can commit sin if they want, whenever they like. OK cool.

You are catching up fast today, did you change diet? This is so good.
The "source"(whatever that means) of man's sin is the first man. In your language, the source of the first man's sin is the first man. The "source of satan's sin is satan. Now read what i said again. "Heaven is a place where man will not be capable of sin". This is quite different from "Heaven is a place where ONLY man will not be capable of sin". Dunno why you brought that up, do you still drink and type? Don't forget that i said it that way to keep things simple and one-by-one. i did not say it to get you back to the bottle.

[19:93] Maryam-مَرْيَم
"اِنۡ کُلُّ مَنۡ فِی السَّمٰوٰتِ وَ الۡاَرۡضِ اِلَّاۤ اٰتِی الرَّحۡمٰنِ عَبۡدًا ﴿ؕ۹۳﴾

Whoever is (dwelling) in the heavens and the earth (whether an angel, a jinn or a human being) will appear just as a servant before the Most Kind (Lord).

Image123:
You are catching up fast today, did you change diet? This is so good.
The "source"(whatever that means) of man's sin is the first man. In your language, the source of the first man's sin is the first man. The "source of satan's sin is satan. Now read what i said again. "Heaven is a place where man will not be capable of sin". This is quite different from "Heaven is a place where ONLY man will not be capable of sin". Dunno why you brought that up, do you still drink and type? Don't forget that i said it that way to keep things simple and one-by-one. i did not say it to get you back to the bottle.

Lol, okay source of man's sin is Adam. After eating the fruit. The fruit is the main source then.
So. If Satan is the first of its kind, what's the source of Satan's sin? when you're ready to answer that, let me know.

And stop disguising. Are you saying Angels aren't capable of committing sin in heaven or not? Answer and stop dodging.

As Muslims, we believe Islam is the religion chosen by the Supreme Being, Allah SWT for Mankind and the jinns.

Islam is the religion of all the Prophets and Messengers of Allah sent to tribes, nations, and peoples from the time of the creation of the first man, Adam AS.

But at some points in time, the true message from Allah usually get lost and in some cases corrupted by men. Therefore, the need to send another Prophet or Messenger as Allah wills.
Allah said this about the father of Faith in Qur'an 3:65 - 67,
[3:65] Āl ‘Imrān-آل عِمْرَان
"یٰۤاَہۡلَ الۡکِتٰبِ لِمَ تُحَآجُّوۡنَ فِیۡۤ اِبۡرٰہِیۡمَ وَ مَاۤ اُنۡزِلَتِ التَّوۡرٰىۃُ وَ الۡاِنۡجِیۡلُ اِلَّا مِنۡۢ بَعۡدِہٖ ؕ اَفَلَا تَعۡقِلُوۡنَ ﴿۶۵﴾

O People of the Book! Why do you dispute about Ibrahim ([Abraham] i.e., why do you regard him as a Jew or a Christian])? The truth is that the Torah and the Injil ([the Gospel] on which both your religions are based) were sent down after his time. Have you not even (this much) sense?
[3:66] Āl ‘Imrān-آل عِمْرَان
"ہٰۤاَنۡتُمۡ ہٰۤؤُلَآءِ حَاجَجۡتُمۡ فِیۡمَا لَکُمۡ بِہٖ عِلۡمٌ فَلِمَ تُحَآجُّوۡنَ فِیۡمَا لَیۡسَ لَکُمۡ بِہٖ عِلۡمٌ ؕ وَ اللّٰہُ یَعۡلَمُ وَ اَنۡتُمۡ لَا تَعۡلَمُوۡنَ ﴿۶۶﴾

Listen! You are the people who have also been disputing about matters of which you had (but some) knowledge. But why do you dispute about things of which you have no knowledge (at all)? And Allah knows but you do not know.

[3:67] Āl ‘Imrān-آل عِمْرَان
"مَا کَانَ اِبۡرٰہِیۡمُ یَہُوۡدِیًّا وَّ لَا نَصۡرَانِیًّا وَّ لٰکِنۡ کَانَ حَنِیۡفًا مُّسۡلِمًا ؕ وَ مَا کَانَ مِنَ الۡمُشۡرِکِیۡنَ ﴿۶۷﴾

Ibrahim (Abraham) was neither a Jew nor a Christian; he was a (true) Muslim, far detached from all heresy and falsehood. Nor was he one of the polytheist.

Also,
[2:135] Al-Baqarah-الْبَقَرَة
"وَ قَالُوۡا کُوۡنُوۡا ہُوۡدًا اَوۡ نَصٰرٰی تَہۡتَدُوۡا ؕ قُلۡ بَلۡ مِلَّۃَ اِبۡرٰہٖمَ حَنِیۡفًا ؕ وَ مَا کَانَ مِنَ الۡمُشۡرِکِیۡنَ ﴿۱۳۵﴾

And (the People of the Book) say: ‘Become Jews or Christians, then you will be guided aright.’ Say: ‘(Nay,) the truth is that we have embraced the religion of Ibrahim (Abraham) who, far from every falsehood, turned absolutely to Allah alone. And he was not of the polytheists.’

[2:136] Al-Baqarah-الْبَقَرَة
"قُوۡلُوۡۤا اٰمَنَّا بِاللّٰہِ وَ مَاۤ اُنۡزِلَ اِلَیۡنَا وَ مَاۤ اُنۡزِلَ اِلٰۤی اِبۡرٰہٖمَ وَ اِسۡمٰعِیۡلَ وَ اِسۡحٰقَ وَ یَعۡقُوۡبَ وَ الۡاَسۡبَاطِ وَ مَاۤ اُوۡتِیَ مُوۡسٰی وَ عِیۡسٰی وَ مَاۤ اُوۡتِیَ النَّبِیُّوۡنَ مِنۡ رَّبِّہِمۡ ۚ لَا نُفَرِّقُ بَیۡنَ اَحَدٍ مِّنۡہُمۡ ۫ۖ وَ نَحۡنُ لَہٗ مُسۡلِمُوۡنَ ﴿۱۳۶﴾

(O Muslims!) Say: ‘We believe in Allah and in that (Book) which has been revealed to us and (also) that which was revealed to Ibrahim (Abraham) and Isma‘il (Ishmael) and Ishaq (Isaac) and Ya‘qub (Jacob) and their children and those (Books) too which were given to Musa (Moses) and ‘Isa (Jesus) and (likewise) which were given to other Prophets by their Lord. We do not make distinction between any of them (in the matter of faith), and we have submitted ourselves to Him alone (the Only, the One God).’

Islam recognises all Prophets and Messengers mentioned in the Bible and the Torah and some that were not mentioned or known by us. Especially, there are 25 were prominently mentioned in the Qur'an and Sunnah.

Islam believe in Isa AS, which i think the Christians call Jesus. But Islam condemns the assertion that he is the begotten Son of God (Allah)

[3:59] Āl ‘Imrān-آل عِمْرَان
"اِنَّ مَثَلَ عِیۡسٰی عِنۡدَ اللّٰہِ کَمَثَلِ اٰدَمَ ؕ خَلَقَہٗ مِنۡ تُرَابٍ ثُمَّ قَالَ لَہٗ کُنۡ فَیَکُوۡنُ ﴿۵۹﴾

Surely, the example of ‘Isa (Jesus) in the sight of Allah is the same as that of Adam whom He formed from clay, then said (to him): ‘Be.’ And he became.

[43:59] Al-Zukhruf-الزُّخْرُف
"اِنۡ ہُوَ اِلَّا عَبۡدٌ اَنۡعَمۡنَا عَلَیۡہِ وَ جَعَلۡنٰہُ مَثَلًا لِّبَنِیۡۤ اِسۡرَآءِیۡلَ ﴿ؕ۵۹﴾

He (‘Isa [Jesus]) was only an (exalted) servant whom We blessed with favour. And We made him an example (of Our might) for the Children of Israel.

[19:35] Maryam-مَرْيَم
"مَا کَانَ لِلّٰہِ اَنۡ یَّتَّخِذَ مِنۡ وَّلَدٍ ۙ سُبۡحٰنَہٗ ؕ اِذَا قَضٰۤی اَمۡرًا فَاِنَّمَا یَقُوۡلُ لَہٗ کُنۡ فَیَکُوۡنُ ﴿ؕ۳۵﴾

It is not Allah’s Glory that He should take (to Himself anyone as) a son. Holy and Glorified is He (above this)! When He decrees any matter, He only says to it: ‘Be,’ and it becomes.

The major point of departure between Islam and Christianity is the Sonship of Isa to Allah SWT.
This is a blasphemous statement in the sight of Allah.
[19:88] Maryam-مَرْيَم
"وَ قَالُوا اتَّخَذَ الرَّحۡمٰنُ وَلَدًا ﴿ؕ۸۸﴾

And (the disbelievers) say: ‘The Most Kind (Lord) has taken (to Himself) a son.’
[19:89] Maryam-مَرْيَم
"لَقَدۡ جِئۡتُمۡ شَیۡئًا اِدًّا ﴿ۙ۸۹﴾

(O disbelievers!) You have indeed brought most horrible and unusual evil (on your tongues).
[19:90] Maryam-مَرْيَم
"تَکَادُ السَّمٰوٰتُ یَتَفَطَّرۡنَ مِنۡہُ وَ تَنۡشَقُّ الۡاَرۡضُ وَ تَخِرُّ الۡجِبَالُ ہَدًّا ﴿ۙ۹۰﴾

The heavens may just burst at this (fabricated lie) and the earth split asunder and the mountains fall down to pieces,
[19:91] Maryam-مَرْيَم
"اَنۡ دَعَوۡا لِلرَّحۡمٰنِ وَلَدًا ﴿ۚ۹۱﴾

That they have attributed a son to the Most Kind (Lord).
[19:92] Maryam-مَرْيَم
"وَ مَا یَنۡۢبَغِیۡ لِلرَّحۡمٰنِ اَنۡ یَّتَّخِذَ وَلَدًا ﴿ؕ۹۲﴾

And it is not befitting the Glory of the Most Kind (Lord) to take (someone as) a son.
[19:93] Maryam-مَرْيَم
"اِنۡ کُلُّ مَنۡ فِی السَّمٰوٰتِ وَ الۡاَرۡضِ اِلَّاۤ اٰتِی الرَّحۡمٰنِ عَبۡدًا ﴿ؕ۹۳﴾

Whoever is (dwelling) in the heavens and the earth (whether an angel, a jinn or a human being) will appear just as a servant before the Most Kind (Lord).

To be clear there is nothing like 'this God, that God' ,it's just God. It's the concept of God that is different This is a muslim's belief. We believe in one God, we believe in all prophets Allah sent. The Quran says 124,000 prophets were sent to mankind that last of them being Muhammad (peace be upon him). We believe in jesus son of mary( peace be upon him). Islam is the only non christian faith that believes in jesus. (You can't be a muslim without believing in jesus) We believe in the injeel that was given to him. But the bible we have today ehnn, jesus would be shocked at what is in the bible. The additions and corrections and editions and subtractions that the bible has undergone can't make us trust it's content as complete word of God. Some of them are word of God, some of them are word of men.
The Quran is the final revelation from the God.
We believe in all the books that were given to the prophets.

And arab christians say Allah too. Allah is what's written in the bible in arabic.


Read the Quran and the bible and ask questions. The truth is objective and it's not about my opinion or any one's opinion. Sincerely ask God for guidance

Myer:
The irony of all this 8s no Muslim has come on this head to say that Christians and Muslims worship the different Gods only Christians.

Cos it's even somewhere in the Quran where it says Muslims should learn from Christians in the ways of righteousness.
Muslims just like the Jews only reject the fact that Jesus is Son of God and also the idea of the Trinity of God.

Allah simply means God. So as long as Christians, Jews and Muslims are worshipping the one and only God, by inference they're all worshipping the same God albeit in different ways.

It is only human religion that divides and makes Muslims and Christians not want to have anything in common.

Muslims are warned not to make the same mistake made by the Christians only

mhmsadyq:
As Muslims, we believe Islam is the religion chosen by the Supreme Being, Allah SWT for Mankind and the jinns.

Islam is the religion of all the Prophets and Messengers of Allah sent to tribes, nations, and peoples from the time of the creation of the first man, Adam AS.

But at some points in time, the true message from Allah usually get lost and in some cases corrupted by men. Therefore, the need to send another Prophet or Messenger as Allah wills.
Allah said this about the father of Faith in Qur'an 3:65 - 67,
[3:65] Āl ‘Imrān-آل عِمْرَان
"یٰۤاَہۡلَ الۡکِتٰبِ لِمَ تُحَآجُّوۡنَ فِیۡۤ اِبۡرٰہِیۡمَ وَ مَاۤ اُنۡزِلَتِ التَّوۡرٰىۃُ وَ الۡاِنۡجِیۡلُ اِلَّا مِنۡۢ بَعۡدِہٖ ؕ اَفَلَا تَعۡقِلُوۡنَ ﴿۶۵﴾

O People of the Book! Why do you dispute about Ibrahim ([Abraham] i.e., why do you regard him as a Jew or a Christian])? The truth is that the Torah and the Injil ([the Gospel] on which both your religions are based) were sent down after his time. Have you not even (this much) sense?
[3:66] Āl ‘Imrān-آل عِمْرَان
"ہٰۤاَنۡتُمۡ ہٰۤؤُلَآءِ حَاجَجۡتُمۡ فِیۡمَا لَکُمۡ بِہٖ عِلۡمٌ فَلِمَ تُحَآجُّوۡنَ فِیۡمَا لَیۡسَ لَکُمۡ بِہٖ عِلۡمٌ ؕ وَ اللّٰہُ یَعۡلَمُ وَ اَنۡتُمۡ لَا تَعۡلَمُوۡنَ ﴿۶۶﴾

Listen! You are the people who have also been disputing about matters of which you had (but some) knowledge. But why do you dispute about things of which you have no knowledge (at all)? And Allah knows but you do not know.

[3:67] Āl ‘Imrān-آل عِمْرَان
"مَا کَانَ اِبۡرٰہِیۡمُ یَہُوۡدِیًّا وَّ لَا نَصۡرَانِیًّا وَّ لٰکِنۡ کَانَ حَنِیۡفًا مُّسۡلِمًا ؕ وَ مَا کَانَ مِنَ الۡمُشۡرِکِیۡنَ ﴿۶۷﴾

Ibrahim (Abraham) was neither a Jew nor a Christian; he was a (true) Muslim, far detached from all heresy and falsehood. Nor was he one of the polytheist.

Also,
[2:135] Al-Baqarah-الْبَقَرَة
"وَ قَالُوۡا کُوۡنُوۡا ہُوۡدًا اَوۡ نَصٰرٰی تَہۡتَدُوۡا ؕ قُلۡ بَلۡ مِلَّۃَ اِبۡرٰہٖمَ حَنِیۡفًا ؕ وَ مَا کَانَ مِنَ الۡمُشۡرِکِیۡنَ ﴿۱۳۵﴾

And (the People of the Book) say: ‘Become Jews or Christians, then you will be guided aright.’ Say: ‘(Nay,) the truth is that we have embraced the religion of Ibrahim (Abraham) who, far from every falsehood, turned absolutely to Allah alone. And he was not of the polytheists.’

[2:136] Al-Baqarah-الْبَقَرَة
"قُوۡلُوۡۤا اٰمَنَّا بِاللّٰہِ وَ مَاۤ اُنۡزِلَ اِلَیۡنَا وَ مَاۤ اُنۡزِلَ اِلٰۤی اِبۡرٰہٖمَ وَ اِسۡمٰعِیۡلَ وَ اِسۡحٰقَ وَ یَعۡقُوۡبَ وَ الۡاَسۡبَاطِ وَ مَاۤ اُوۡتِیَ مُوۡسٰی وَ عِیۡسٰی وَ مَاۤ اُوۡتِیَ النَّبِیُّوۡنَ مِنۡ رَّبِّہِمۡ ۚ لَا نُفَرِّقُ بَیۡنَ اَحَدٍ مِّنۡہُمۡ ۫ۖ وَ نَحۡنُ لَہٗ مُسۡلِمُوۡنَ ﴿۱۳۶﴾

(O Muslims!) Say: ‘We believe in Allah and in that (Book) which has been revealed to us and (also) that which was revealed to Ibrahim (Abraham) and Isma‘il (Ishmael) and Ishaq (Isaac) and Ya‘qub (Jacob) and their children and those (Books) too which were given to Musa (Moses) and ‘Isa (Jesus) and (likewise) which were given to other Prophets by their Lord. We do not make distinction between any of them (in the matter of faith), and we have submitted ourselves to Him alone (the Only, the One God).’

Islam recognises all Prophets and Messengers mentioned in the Bible and the Torah and some that were not mentioned or known by us. Especially, there are 25 were prominently mentioned in the Qur'an and Sunnah.

Islam believe in Isa AS, which i think the Christians call Jesus. But Islam condemns the assertion that he is the begotten Son of God (Allah)

[3:59] Āl ‘Imrān-آل عِمْرَان
"اِنَّ مَثَلَ عِیۡسٰی عِنۡدَ اللّٰہِ کَمَثَلِ اٰدَمَ ؕ خَلَقَہٗ مِنۡ تُرَابٍ ثُمَّ قَالَ لَہٗ کُنۡ فَیَکُوۡنُ ﴿۵۹﴾

Surely, the example of ‘Isa (Jesus) in the sight of Allah is the same as that of Adam whom He formed from clay, then said (to him): ‘Be.’ And he became.

[43:59] Al-Zukhruf-الزُّخْرُف
"اِنۡ ہُوَ اِلَّا عَبۡدٌ اَنۡعَمۡنَا عَلَیۡہِ وَ جَعَلۡنٰہُ مَثَلًا لِّبَنِیۡۤ اِسۡرَآءِیۡلَ ﴿ؕ۵۹﴾

He (‘Isa [Jesus]) was only an (exalted) servant whom We blessed with favour. And We made him an example (of Our might) for the Children of Israel.

[19:35] Maryam-مَرْيَم
"مَا کَانَ لِلّٰہِ اَنۡ یَّتَّخِذَ مِنۡ وَّلَدٍ ۙ سُبۡحٰنَہٗ ؕ اِذَا قَضٰۤی اَمۡرًا فَاِنَّمَا یَقُوۡلُ لَہٗ کُنۡ فَیَکُوۡنُ ﴿ؕ۳۵﴾

It is not Allah’s Glory that He should take (to Himself anyone as) a son. Holy and Glorified is He (above this)! When He decrees any matter, He only says to it: ‘Be,’ and it becomes.

The major point of departure between Islam and Christianity is the Sonship of Isa to Allah SWT.
This is a blasphemous statement in the sight of Allah.
[19:88] Maryam-مَرْيَم
"وَ قَالُوا اتَّخَذَ الرَّحۡمٰنُ وَلَدًا ﴿ؕ۸۸﴾

And (the disbelievers) say: ‘The Most Kind (Lord) has taken (to Himself) a son.’
[19:89] Maryam-مَرْيَم
"لَقَدۡ جِئۡتُمۡ شَیۡئًا اِدًّا ﴿ۙ۸۹﴾

(O disbelievers!) You have indeed brought most horrible and unusual evil (on your tongues).
[19:90] Maryam-مَرْيَم
"تَکَادُ السَّمٰوٰتُ یَتَفَطَّرۡنَ مِنۡہُ وَ تَنۡشَقُّ الۡاَرۡضُ وَ تَخِرُّ الۡجِبَالُ ہَدًّا ﴿ۙ۹۰﴾

The heavens may just burst at this (fabricated lie) and the earth split asunder and the mountains fall down to pieces,
[19:91] Maryam-مَرْيَم
"اَنۡ دَعَوۡا لِلرَّحۡمٰنِ وَلَدًا ﴿ۚ۹۱﴾

That they have attributed a son to the Most Kind (Lord).
[19:92] Maryam-مَرْيَم
"وَ مَا یَنۡۢبَغِیۡ لِلرَّحۡمٰنِ اَنۡ یَّتَّخِذَ وَلَدًا ﴿ؕ۹۲﴾

And it is not befitting the Glory of the Most Kind (Lord) to take (someone as) a son.
[19:93] Maryam-مَرْيَم
"اِنۡ کُلُّ مَنۡ فِی السَّمٰوٰتِ وَ الۡاَرۡضِ اِلَّاۤ اٰتِی الرَّحۡمٰنِ عَبۡدًا ﴿ؕ۹۳﴾

Whoever is (dwelling) in the heavens and the earth (whether an angel, a jinn or a human being) will appear just as a servant before the Most Kind (Lord).

Wow. This is deep. Thanks for sharing the references too.

What then is your take? Do Muslims and Christians worship the same God though in different ways?

kingxsamz:
Lmao. This guy sha.
1 Abeg what is that thing that prevents people from committing sin even with freewill? Why wasn't it implemented in the first place before Adam and Eve ate the fruit? If they can't think of committing sin in this god's presence, then how come Satan was able to sin against this god? Hmm?

2 Okay wait. Hold on.
You said a child is without knowledge, not like Adam and Eve (adults) who knew the difference between good and evil. But wait, is it not the same Bible that said Adam and Eve knew nothing about good and bad? So if the tree would make them have this knowledge, how in the hell did they know that what they were about to do was bad? Abeg think about it? What's the difference between Adam and Eve and a baby?


3 How can you be disappointed when you already saw it happen before it happened? As per omniscient... it's almost like throwing a bottle of wine from a three storey building and being disappointed that it broke.
And please doesn't regret come from one's mistake? If you made a mistake and the consequences plays out, won't you regret ever making that mistake? So why are you twisting the word?

4 Again. Adam and Eve were just like kids, they didn't know good or bad. So they can't decipher the level of consequences of their actions. Ponder on that, slowly.


5 If Satan cannot die, then this god is not Omnipotent. Straight up. No two ways about that.


6 A god that makes a bet with his long time villian, a bet which it knows the results already, at the expense of other people's lives, is not a perfect god. Read that again.

7 Deuteronomy 21:18-21 clearly says parents can bring their child out to the streets and stone them to death if the child is rebellious and stubborn. Another verse clearly says you should cut off your hand if you sin. Why aren't you following those rules since this Christ you mentioned didn't abolish any law? Hmm?

8 So this god trusted its creation to keep to its commandments even though this god already knew they would disobey (as per omniscient)?
Hmm how interesting.


Mr man, we're going back and forth here, and you've done nothing but go round in circles repeating the same thing. Are you going to answer my questions or not?
I can't keep up with this.

bro its okay! If after all the counters against his argument and all the holes u poked through his comment he refuses to see d light then just free him! Its like some people are meant to be blind forever!

Theguided:
To be clear there is nothing like 'this God, that God' ,it's just God. It's the concept of God that is different This is a muslim's belief. We believe in one God, we believe in all prophets Allah sent. The Quran says 124,000 prophets were sent to mankind that last of them being Muhammad (peace be upon him). We believe in jesus son of mary( peace be upon him). Islam is the only non christian faith that believes in jesus. (You can't be a muslim without believing in jesus) We believe in the injeel that was given to him. But the bible we have today ehnn, jesus would be shocked at what is in the bible. The additions and corrections and editions and subtractions that the bible has undergone can't make us trust it's content as complete word of God. Some of them are word of God, some of them are word of men.
The Quran is the final revelation from the God.
We believe in all the books that were given to the prophets.

And arab christians say Allah too. Allah is what's written in the bible in arabic.


Read the Quran and the bible and ask questions. The truth is objective and it's not about my opinion or any one's opinion. Sincerely ask God for guidance

You don't have a choice not to believe in the Bible, because Islam does not have a foundation on its own unless it borrows and plagiarize the bible.

Mohammed was the first Muslim in existence yet even though he affirmed the Bible to be his foundation he was exposed because the history of the Bible doesn't tally with his Islam.

So he justified the obvious departure as him been the correct one while the entire Bible was changed yet he adopted all the stories which has no significance to his new religion

The Bible and it's entire stories where a sum up of events written thousands of years before Mohamed parents even existed.

Are you telling me that Mohamed who isn't even a Jew by the way, who wasn't a witness to the stories that happened, someone who has no connection to the customs and practice of this people understand the actual events better than them (he wasn't even alive when the event occured).

Let us take religious sentiment aside and look at this theologically.

It's like an archeologist who escavates a relic that existed centuries before him only to tell his people the relic is not the true picture of the people (archeologists rather teach the present based on what the past said).

How come everything in the Bible is a Jewish story with Jewish people and prophets including a Jewish God then Mohamed comes along centuries later and is the one to tell you it's changed, then it starts becoming about his Quraysh people and about him.

What is this Jewish God business with Quresh people when he had swore he would deal with the Jews as a people forever?

Can God change or is Mohamed the one to change God to his ways?

If the Word of God is God himself would he not protect his word himself forever, is Mohamed the one to protect God?

There is no big deal in Arab Christian's calling God allah, Quresh and the entire Arabs were forced Muslims before some converted so they all grew up calling God allah.

The name allah made its name into their cultural language for God, just as Northern Christian's call God Allah because culturally Hausa/Fulani who aren't Arabs have adopted Allah as their language name for God

Myer:
Youre sharing your own opinion.
As a biblical scholar, it would help if you had biblical references for each of your point.

Oh it becomes my opinion when the lies are suddenly bursted.

I have explained everything from a theology perspective, this to me is the right approach to an atheist.

I don't answer from a religious angle of hide and seek, if a religion exists genuinely everyinch of its theology must correspond

If it's a made up story there is bound to be inconsistency, so far none with my God

Femzaremz:
bro its okay! If after all the counters against his argument and all the holes u poked through his comment he refuses to see d light then just free him! Its like some people are meant to be blind forever!

There is no holes he was able to post in my assertion.

The word light is relative.

I am still here answing questions diving in depths, the christian passages remain consistent from every sane perspective

I challenge anyone to ask questions not hide under this cheap rhetoric

Myer:
Youre sharing your own opinion.
As a biblical scholar, it would help if you had biblical references for each of your point.

Lol, it suddenly becomes my opinion when it doesn't suit you.

I am trying to make it short as possible, quoting scriptures would be too long an epistle.

I just explain the general concept behind christian passages.

Bible isn't quran were allah knows best and symbolism is hidden from sight

kingxsamz:
Lmao. This guy sha.
1 Abeg what is that thing that prevents people from committing sin even with freewill? Why wasn't it implemented in the first place before Adam and Eve ate the fruit? If they can't think of committing sin in this god's presence, then how come Satan was able to sin against this god? Hmm?

2 Okay wait. Hold on.
You said a child is without knowledge, not like Adam and Eve (adults) who knew the difference between good and evil. But wait, is it not the same Bible that said Adam and Eve knew nothing about good and bad? So if the tree would make them have this knowledge, how in the hell did they know that what they were about to do was bad? Abeg think about it? What's the difference between Adam and Eve and a baby?


3 How can you be disappointed when you already saw it happen before it happened? As per omniscient... it's almost like throwing a bottle of wine from a three storey building and being disappointed that it broke.
And please doesn't regret come from one's mistake? If you made a mistake and the consequences plays out, won't you regret ever making that mistake? So why are you twisting the word?

4 Again. Adam and Eve were just like kids, they didn't know good or bad. So they can't decipher the level of consequences of their actions. Ponder on that, slowly.


5 If Satan cannot die, then this god is not Omnipotent. Straight up. No two ways about that.


6 A god that makes a bet with his long time villian, a bet which it knows the results already, at the expense of other people's lives, is not a perfect god. Read that again.

7 Deuteronomy 21:18-21 clearly says parents can bring their child out to the streets and stone them to death if the child is rebellious and stubborn. Another verse clearly says you should cut off your hand if it makes you sin. Why aren't you following those rules since this Christ you mentioned didn't abolish any law? Hmm?

8 So this god trusted its creation to keep to its commandments even though this god already knew they would disobey (as per omniscient)?
Hmm how interesting.


Mr man, we're going back and forth here, and you've done nothing but go round in circles repeating the same thing. Are you going to answer my questions or not?
I can't keep up with this.

Sorry I didn't see the quote on time

(1). When Satan approached Eve to sin against God did Eve not rebuke Satan that God had warned them not to eat of the fruit?

Lust and desire to be like God was what brought Satan and Eve to their state.

Freedom, independence comes with the lust to aspire (unless you wanted God to create robots)

(2). Adam and Eve didn't know the difference between Good and Bad how come Eve told Satan that God instructed them not to eat of the tree

How come Adam told Eve God instructed them not to eat of the tree

(3). I am not twisting anything, you fail to grab the concept of omnipresent, that i know the future doesn't mean i should interfer with an independent creature own calculation.

The creature is independent, i know it's end result but i simply allow it the right to make it's decisions, interference is to be bias, i have a right to be disappointment if that creature erors via it's hand (ability to see the past, present and future makes no difference)

(4). A kid is not one that can know the consequences of its actions then damn it because it offers him the opportunity to be like his creator

What does this "kid" desire so special in been like his creator.

(5). How is Satan not dieing affecting God omnipotent (Did God not exercise his superiority over him by casting him down)

Is Satan not aware that punishment in external lake of fire awaits him at the end, why is Satan jittery if he doesn't know the gravity of an external punishment.

(6). This is not a bet, God was confident of Job but Satan felt it was because he was blessed.

God allowed Satan to have his test because it would be unbias of a supposed judge who won't give an attorney the opportunity to prove his case in court.

God instructed Satan not to touch his soul, Eve had already given lordship to the devil by eating the fruit soul upon which death came to the earth.

So the devil had a right over man through death and he can't be questioned if he choosed to use his machinery given by man to him (death) for his test.

This is man's fault not God

(7). The verse you mentioned about parents stoning rebellious children and cutting of hands was given by God to bring man to his helpess state of needing a saviour (which was God solution)

Israelites swore an oat to keep the law even before receiving them, For a God with such high moral standard of holiness it wasn't out of place if sinners kept doing this as self punishment till they cried out to him for a softer solution for sins.

I can't do all those because i have accepted God's better solution in Jesus for my sins.

8. Yes God trusted them to keep his commandments even though he knew they can't.

Just like a judge would still go ahead with a murder case and allow the accused to defend himself even though their is evidence to show he murdered and would go to jail

Myer:
The irony of all this 8s no Muslim has come on this head to say that Christians and Muslims worship the different Gods only Christians.

Cos it's even somewhere in the Quran where it says Muslims should learn from Christians in the ways of righteousness.
Muslims just like the Jews only reject the fact that Jesus is Son of God and also the idea of the Trinity of God.

Allah simply means God. So as long as Christians, Jews and Muslims are worshipping the one and only God, by inference they're all worshipping the same God albeit in different ways.

It is only human religion that divides and makes Muslims and Christians not want to have anything in common.

No Muslim can challenge a Christian or Jew in the first place because Islam plagiarized its book.

You can't see some one who plagiarized coming out to say otherwise, they run for cover.

Bible and all its entails is a Jewish book about Jewish people with passages from old testament verifying the christian book of new testament according to Isaiah 52 and 53.

The Bible has no reference to the quran or Mohamed nor the quranic Arabian people which is a stark tremendous overturn from the Bible yet never deemed fit for reference in Bible

Myer:
Wow. This is deep. Thanks for sharing the references too.

What then is your take? Do Muslims and Christians worship the same God though in different ways?

Well, yes.
But Islam believes that the Christians have corrupted their worship through ascribing Jesus as the begotten son of God, while some say he is the Supreme Being (Allah SWT).
The Christians worship God through Jesus, while others worship Jesus as Allah SWT, which Islam considers as Shriek (associating partner with Allah). There should be no intermediary or association in the worship of Allah.

[5:72] Al-Māidah-الْمَآئِدَة
"لَقَدۡ کَفَرَ الَّذِیۡنَ قَالُوۡۤا اِنَّ اللّٰہَ ہُوَ الۡمَسِیۡحُ ابۡنُ مَرۡیَمَ ؕ وَ قَالَ الۡمَسِیۡحُ یٰبَنِیۡۤ اِسۡرَآءِیۡلَ اعۡبُدُوا اللّٰہَ رَبِّیۡ وَ رَبَّکُمۡ ؕ اِنَّہٗ مَنۡ یُّشۡرِکۡ بِاللّٰہِ فَقَدۡ حَرَّمَ اللّٰہُ عَلَیۡہِ الۡجَنَّۃَ وَ مَاۡوٰىہُ النَّارُ ؕ وَ مَا لِلظّٰلِمِیۡنَ مِنۡ اَنۡصَارٍ ﴿۷۲﴾

In fact, they have become disbelievers who say: ‘Allah is the Messiah, the son of Maryam (Mary),’ whereas the Messiah (himself) said: ‘O Children of Israel! Worship Allah, Who is my (as well as) your Lord.’ Indeed, Allah has forbidden Paradise to him who associates partners with Him. And Hell is his abode and the wrongdoers will not find any helpers.

kingxsamz:
Lol, okay source of man's sin is Adam. After eating the fruit. The fruit is the main source then.
So. If Satan is the first of its kind, what's the source of Satan's sin? when you're ready to answer that, let me know.

And stop disguising. Are you saying Angels aren't capable of committing sin in heaven or not? Answer and stop dodging.

You should be grateful that i have helped you keep it simple thus far. You should be reminded by now that you are the one who dodges and literally dreads me, not the other way around.

Romans 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

i guess this is the verse/passage you are bringing "source" from, correct me if it is wrong. As you can see, the word "source" is not there, so be wary of the way you use it. Make e no cut you for hand. Sin started in the human race with/through Adam. Sin started in satan with/through satan.
Let me now take you further down the syllabus since we're clear on the explanation for man not committing sin in Heaven. There's no sin in Heaven. When the Bible mentions Heaven, you should observe that there are different Heavens. It's like layers or realms like onions, lol.

2 Corinthians 12:2 I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth such an one caught up to the third heaven.

The atmosphere you see is called heaven or heavens. There's where satan and his cohorts operate also in the heaven. There's God's dwelling place, Heaven. Anywhere outside earth is simply and basically called "heaven" in the Bible for simplicity sake and probably lack of another lexicon at the time of writing. Do i expect you to understand this jargon, not really. But i tried to break it down as simply as possible at the moment.

Image123:
You should be grateful that i have helped you keep it simple thus far. You should be reminded by now that you are the one who dodges and literally dreads me, not the other way around.

Romans 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

i guess this is the verse/passage you are bringing "source" from, correct me if it is wrong. As you can see, the word "source" is not there, so be wary of the way you use it. Make e no cut you for hand. Sin started in the human race with/through Adam. Sin started in satan with/through satan.
Let me now take you further down the syllabus since we're clear on the explanation for man not committing sin in Heaven. There's no sin in Heaven. When the Bible mentions Heaven, you should observe that there are different Heavens. It's like layers or realms like onions, lol.

2 Corinthians 12:2 I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth such an one caught up to the third heaven.

The atmosphere you see is called heaven or heavens. There's where satan and his cohorts operate also in the heaven. There's God's dwelling place, Heaven. Anywhere outside earth is simply and basically called "heaven" in the Bible for simplicity sake and probably lack of another lexicon at the time of writing. Do i expect you to understand this jargon, not really. But i tried to break it down as simply as possible at the moment.

Abeg rest.
Small question wey I ask you, you don dey give excuse say Heaven get layers and realms, say e be like onions. No be only onions. Na tomato.
I didn't read any verse, I asked you a simple logical question based on what you've been saying. Now, all of a sudden Heaven has layers.
If you say No sin in heaven, and the tree of life is man's source of sin, what's the source of Satan's, and how come Satan was able to commit sin, even though you already said no sin in Heaven?
Dont give me that "Heaven is like Onions" bullcrap.
Rest!

Mikecold:
Sorry I didn't see the quote on time

(1). When Satan approached Eve to sin against God did Eve not rebuke Satan that God had warned them not to eat of the fruit?

Lust and desire to be like God was what brought Satan and Eve to their state.

Freedom, independence comes with the lust to aspire (unless you wanted God to create robots)

(2). Adam and Eve didn't know the difference between Good and Bad how come Eve told Satan that God instructed them not to eat of the tree

How come Adam told Eve God instructed them not to eat of the tree

(3). I am not twisting anything, you fail to grab the concept of omnipresent, that i know the future doesn't mean i should interfer with an independent creature own calculation.

The creature is independent, i know it's end result but i simply allow it the right to make it's decisions, interference is to be bias, i have a right to be disappointment if that creature erors via it's hand (ability to see the past, present and future makes no difference)

(4). A kid is not one that can know the consequences of its actions then damn it because it offers him the opportunity to be like his creator

What does this "kid" desire so special in been like his creator.

(5). How is Satan not dieing affecting God omnipotent (Did God not exercise his superiority over him by casting him down)

Is Satan not aware that punishment in external lake of fire awaits him at the end, why is Satan jittery if he doesn't know the gravity of an external punishment.

(6). This is not a bet, God was confident of Job but Satan felt it was because he was blessed.

God allowed Satan to have his test because it would be unbias of a supposed judge who won't give an attorney the opportunity to prove his case in court.

God instructed Satan not to touch his soul, Eve had already given lordship to the devil by eating the fruit soul upon which death came to the earth.

So the devil had a right over man through death and he can't be questioned if he choosed to use his machinery given by man to him (death) for his test.

This is man's fault not God

(7). The verse you mentioned about parents stoning rebellious children and cutting of hands was given by God to bring man to his helpess state of needing a saviour (which was God solution)

Israelites swore an oat to keep the law even before receiving them, For a God with such high moral standard of holiness it wasn't out of place if sinners kept doing this as self punishment till they cried out to him for a softer solution for sins.

I can't do all those because i have accepted God's better solution in Jesus for my sins.

8. Yes God trusted them to keep his commandments even though he knew they can't.

Just like a judge would still go ahead with a murder case and allow the accused to defend himself even though their is evidence to show he murdered and would go to jail

Lmao... You think I would go round in circles with you again?
Go back and read all I wrote without feeling the need to counter. Read it and understand.
I asked questions, but all you've been doing is repeat what I already know, I'm showing you the 'many' contradictions and you're just repeating the same old story from your bible. You haven't done justice to my questions "logically".
Go back and read it to understand.
I don't have the time to keep writing ten paragraphs. When you finally do, let me know.

kingxsamz:
Abeg rest.
Small question wey I ask you, you don dey give excuse say Heaven get layers and realms, say e be like onions. No be only onions. Na tomato.
I didn't read any verse, I asked you a simple logical question based on what you've been saying. Now, all of a sudden Heaven has layers.
If you say No sin in heaven, and the tree of life is man's source of sin, what's the source of Satan's, and how come Satan was able to commit sin, even though you already said no sin in Heaven?
Dont give me that "Heaven is like Onions" bullcrap.
Rest!

So i should throw away the Bible and listen to your opinions? i never said that the tree of life is man's source of sin. You fail to read, how can you know? Because you don't want to know. An unserious element playing the ostrich, don't show me Bible, I will tell you what I want Bible to say. Folly reloaded.
BTW, i mentioned onions because everyone knows onions. It's in layers. Peeling one layer is still an onion. It's a simple analogy. Tomato does not have layers, be literate.

Image123:
So i should throw away the Bible and listen to your opinions? i never said that the tree of life is man's source of sin. You fail to read, how can you know? Because you don't want to know. An unserious element playing the ostrich, don't show me Bible, I will tell you what I want Bible to say. Folly reloaded.

Heaven like Onions ko.
Funny guy.
Which fruit did Satan eat that made it commit sin in a place where there is no sin?
That one no dey your bible na, na why you dey come up with your own theory. Abeg rest.

Image123:
.
BTW, i mentioned onions because everyone knows onions. It's in layers. Peeling one layer is still an onion. It's a simple analogy. Tomato does not have layers, be literate.

Tomato ni.

kingxsamz:
Lmao... You think I would go round in circles with you again?
Go back and read all I wrote without feeling the need to counter. Read it and understand.
I asked questions, but all you've been doing is repeat what I already know, I'm showing you the 'many' contradictions and you're just repeating the same old story from your bible. You haven't done justice to my questions "logically".
Go back and read it to understand.
I don't have the time to keep writing ten paragraphs. When you finally do, let me know.

Even an average person without religious prejudice would read that detailed breakdown and be clarified.

It is very easy to hide under the general blanket of "you did not answer my question"
if after i explained everything consistently without skipping any perphas you have had your concluded answers to your questions yourself

Go back and read them, if your intention was to genuinely get answers they were answered, you only kept on repeating your already concluded bias because the moment you let go of it shatters to the ground

kingxsamz:
Heaven like Onions ko.
Funny guy.
Which fruit did Satan eat that made it commit sin in a place where there is no sin?
That one no dey your bible na, na why you dey come up with your own theory. Abeg rest.

BTW, i mentioned onions because everyone knows onions. It's in layers. Peeling one layer is still an onion. It's a simple analogy. Tomato does not have layers, be literate.

When you are ready to read and open the Bible, you will see that it is clearly written there. It mentions heavenS because it has plural. But what do you know about singular and plural, you aren't that educated i guess.

Ephesians 4:10 He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)
Hebrews 7:26 For such an high priest became us, who is holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and made higher than the heavens;

Mikecold:
Even an average person without religious prejudice would read that detailed breakdown and be clarified.

Go back and read them, if your intention was to genuinely get answers they were answered, you only kept on repeating your already concluded bias because the moment you let go of it shatters to the ground

His exact fears. He doesn't want to be wrong, it's suicidal to his belief.

Image123:
BTW, i mentioned onions because everyone knows onions. It's in layers. Peeling one layer is still an onion. It's a simple analogy. Tomato does not have layers, be literate.

When you are ready to read and open the Bible, you will see that it is clearly written there. It mentions heavenS because it has plural. But what do you know about singular and plural, you aren't that educated i guess.

Of course, everyone knows onions have layers. What's funny is how you decided to come up with that as an excuse to why Satan committed sin. We were talking about Heaven as a whole, and all of a sudden, you're talking about realms and layers... abeg rest.

Just answer the simple question and stop bleating.

What fruit did Satan eat for it to be able to commit sin in a place where you said there is no sin? Answer. Stop bleating.

Image123:
His exact fears. He doesn't want to be wrong, it's suicidal to his belief.

I'm arguing the contradictory content of your bible, not the existence of your god.
If I ask for proof of your god, you'll start crying with your usual sermons, because you can't provide proof of its existence.

kingxsamz:
Of course, everyone knows onions have layers. What's funny is how you decided to come up with that as an excuse to why Satan committed sin. We were talking about Heaven as a whole, and all of a sudden, you're talking about realms and layers... abeg rest.

Just answer the simple question and stop bleating.

What fruit did Satan eat for it to be able to commit sin in a place where you said there is no sin? Answer. Stop bleating.

It is not an excuse but a written fact. The Bible teaches expressly about heavenS. It therefore means you should be cognizant about which heaven when you make ridiculous assertions. It is sudden to you because you have never heard it and you made your conclusions. i have heard it all my life so the joke is on your ignorance. i don't think i said sin has to do with fruit, i wonder your continued obsession about them.