According to the gospels, shortly before his death on the cross, Jesus asked god to forgive those that crucified him because they did not know what they were doing.

In typical fashion,christians are always quick to make reference to this act of forgiveness.
But when I think about this, I am puzzled by its broader implications.

So, do you really think that god forgave those that crucified Jesus?

To answer your question,did God forgive Paul(the worst sinner that ever lived,afterall he took that title)

1 Timothy 1:15 This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptance, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; [size=18pt]of whom I am chief[/size].

k2039: To answer your question,did God forgive Paul(the worst sinner that ever lived,afterall he took that title)

1 Timothy 1:15 This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptance, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; [size=18pt]of whom I am chief[/size].

You did not answer my question. I am least interested in scriptural quotes.
I am interested in your thoughts.

If those persons later repented from there wicked ways and accepted Christ,why not!!!!!!.......

Christ was only making a request to his Father.....

The forgiveness of those men was contingent on there being repentant....

forgive ? yes. forget ? no

revelation 1 vs 7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.

ijawkid: If those persons later repented from there wicked ways and accepted Christ,why not!!!!!!.......

Christ was only making a request to his Father.....

The forgiveness of those men was contingent on there being repentant....

Thank you.
This is quite interesting. So Jesus was merely making a request, and there was no gurantee of acceptance.

hhhmm.

Should we assume that all prayers for forgiveness are mere requests and do not offer any gurantees of acceptance?

what about when priests, catholics especially, pronounce forgiveness after confession? Is that just a feel-good gimmick?

plaetton:

Thank you.
This is quite interesting. So Jesus was merely making a request, and there was no gurantee of acceptance.

hhhmm.

Should we assume that all prayers for forgiveness are mere requests and do not offer any gurantees of acceptance?

what about when priests, catholics especially, pronounce forgiveness after confession? Is that just a feel-good gimmick?

plaetton: According to the gospels, shortly before his death on the cross, Jesus asked god to forgive those that crucified him because they did not know what they were doing.

In typical fashion,christians are always quick to make reference to this act of forgiveness.
But when I think about this, I am puzzled by its broader implications.

So, do you really think that god forgave those that crucified Jesus?

When we contrast this with the fact that Christ is said to be God himself. . . . then well, oh well, absurdity of absurdities!

plaetton:

Thank you.
This is quite interesting. So Jesus was merely making a request, and there was no gurantee of acceptance.

hhhmm.

Should we assume that all prayers for forgiveness are mere requests and do not offer any gurantees of acceptance?

what about when priests, catholics especially, pronounce forgiveness after confession? Is that just a feel-good gimmick?

Catholics are expected to be repentant before confessing.

A God who killed his own son?
Who should be forgiving who?
God murdered his own 'son'. . . via the immaculate impregnation with the HOLY GHOST.
The "murder for messiah" charade was called 'prophesy'! HA!
Dial M for Murder!

plaetton:

Thank you.
This is quite interesting. So Jesus was merely making a request, and there was no gurantee of acceptance.

hhhmm.

Should we assume that all prayers for forgiveness are mere requests and do not offer any gurantees of acceptance?

what about when priests, catholics especially, pronounce forgiveness after confession? Is that just a feel-good gimmick?

All prayers for forgiveness are answered when repentance is attained by an individual...

One doesn't ask for forgiveness and then goes to sleÉp.....

If God wuld forgive those who murdered Jesus they must have to repent 1st.....

And what Àre u talking about priÉsts??

plaetton: According to the gospels, shortly before his death on the cross, Jesus asked god to forgive those that crucified him because they did not know what they were doing.

In typical fashion,christians are always quick to make reference to this act of forgiveness.
But when I think about this, I am puzzled by its broader implications.

So, do you really think that god forgave those that crucified Jesus?

1 John 5:14 This is the confidence we have in approaching God: that if we ask anything according to his will, he hears us

It is Gods will for us to be forgiven of our sins. When Jesus asked God to forgive them, sure God will listen to Him, that is, He will forgive them if they realise they have sinned, but if they don't but continue in sin, that forgiveness will be cancelled.

Deep Sight:

When we contrast this with the fact that Christ is said to be God himself. . . . then well, oh well, absurdity of absurdities!

Lol.....

I wanted to bring out this same point...

If Christ was God himself,why pray to another God to forgive the sins of others....

That will be absurd....

.....this scenario is one trinitarians should go ponder on.....

lucky Roman soldiers. anyways, jesus was in no position to forgive anyone, at the point when he was being nailed to a plank of wood,like a common traitor. it was the brave Roman soldiers who had the power to forgive jesus.

ijawkid:

Lol.....

I wanted to bring out this same point...

If Christ was God himself,why pray to another God to forgive the sins of others....

That will be absurd....

.....this scenario is one trinitarians should go ponder on.....

Jesus also said: "your sins are forgiven!" Did he not?

italo:

Jesus also said: "your sins are forgiven!" Did he not?

Do you mean to the soldiers who crucified him?

In reality, Jesus on the cross, before dying, begs for his life and his father berates him has left ...
It is very painful that a god, almighty, find a humiliating death, hung and humiliated ...
Jesus had no power to forgive, and his father did not listen to their pleas.

plaetton: According to the gospels, shortly before his death on the cross, Jesus asked god to forgive those that crucified him because they did not know what they were doing.

In typical fashion,christians are always quick to make reference to this act of forgiveness.
But when I think about this, I am puzzled by its broader implications.

So, do you really think that god forgave those that crucified Jesus?

I do.

plaetton: According to the gospels, shortly before his death on the cross, Jesus asked god to forgive those that crucified him because they did not know what they were doing.

In typical fashion,christians are always quick to make reference to this act of forgiveness.
But when I think about this, I am puzzled by its broader implications.

So, do you really think that god forgave those that crucified Jesus?

Yes God forgave them for crucifying Christ.

Mr_Anony:
Yes God forgave them for crucifying Christ.

You know this how?. . .

mazaje:

You know this how?. . .

I know this because Jesus Christ made the prayer and the bible makes it clear that Jesus Christ is the Son of God manifest on earth.
God always hears His prayer. . . . .so much so that our prayers are only valid if they come with the signature of Christ.

Jesus talking to the Father:
“Father, I thank You that You have heard Me. And I know that You always hear Me, but because of the people who are standing by I said this, that they may believe that You sent Me.” [/i]John 11:41-43

Also, Jesus had the authority to forgive sin
[i]...But that you may know that the Son of Man has authority on earth to forgive sins..." He said to the paralytic, Mark 2:10

And He gave that authority to us being His disciples...Notice how the authority to forgive comes with the sending

Again Jesus said, "Peace be with you! As the Father has sent me, I am sending you." And with that he breathed on them and said, "Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive anyone's sins, their sins are forgiven; if you do not forgive them, they are not forgiven." John 20:21-23

That's how I know that the crucifiers of Christ were forgiven. Because Jesus Christ forgave them and prayed The Father to forgive them.

Op God forgave them of crusifying Jesus nt for their sins to come, simple.

plappville:

1 John 5:14 This is the confidence we have in approaching God: that if we ask anything according to his will, he hears us

It is Gods will for us to be forgiven of our sins. When Jesus asked God to forgive them, sure God will listen to Him, that is, He will forgive them if they realise they have sinned, but if they don't but continue in sin, that forgiveness will be cancelled.

if the biblical God could forgive then why did Jesus have to die anyway

in christianity is repentance of the sinner a factor in obtaining God's forgiveness? i ask because those people to this day are not sorry and they still refer to Jesus in uncomplimentary terms.

in christianity is repentance of the sinner a factor in obtaining God's forgiveness? i ask because those people to this day are not sorry and they still refer to Jesus in uncomplimentary terms.

F00028: in christianity is repentance of the sinner a factor in obtaining God's forgiveness? i ask because those people to this are not sorry and they still refer to Jesus in uncomplimentary terms.

Father forgive them for they know not what they do

F00028:

if the biblical God could forgive then why did Jesus have to die anyway

Jesus prayed that they be forgiven for that sin. He was heard and answered. But that one has been forgiven one sin or many does not say anything about their nature of sin which will go on producing more and more sin unless something is done about it.

A Christian could beseech God to forgive the blasphemy of all Nairaland atheists and He would hear and grant his request. But if the atheists blaspheme again, they're without coverage unless the Christian prays again.

But if the atheists were to accept Jesus Christ's righteousness, not only would they be forgiven, they would become blameless before God. That righteousness will begin to replace the natural tendency that they have to sin and disobedience, so that there's less and less need for fresh repentance and fresh forgiveness.

In other words, Jesus still had to die to destroy the root of sin so that there would be no further disobedience and therefore no continuing need for forgiveness.

F00028:

if the biblical God could forgive then why did Jesus have to die anyway

For exercise purposes, could you be so nice as to paint for us a step by step scenario of where you offend your mortal father (who we'll assume loves you) and how you go about obtaining forgiveness?
please don't leave out to state the consequence of your offence had you not been forgiven.

Mr_Anony:
I know this because Jesus Christ made the prayer and the bible makes it clear that Jesus Christ is the Son of God manifest on earth.
God always hears His prayer. . . . .so much so that our prayers are only valid if they come with the signature of Christ.

Jesus talking to the Father:[i][color=#990000]
“Father, I thank You that You have heard Me. [b]And I know that You always hear Me

Now if u claim Gods always answers Jesus, and he will not make a wish or prayer that God will not anwser, I WILL REMIND YOU OF THE PRAYER JESUS MADE ON THE NIGHT BEFORE THE EVENT , THAT "LET THIS CUP PASS OVER ME". AS IF TO TELL THE WORLD OF HOW GOD REFUSED TO ANSWER HIS PRAYER ,IT IS CLAIMED THAT HE CREID ON THE CROSS "WHY HAS THOU FORSAKEN ME".

Mr_Anony:
Father forgive them for they know not what they do

I could also add that considering that He was the One being wronged, it was really up to Him to sue for full justice against them at the Hands of His Father. In forgiving them, He freed His enemies from the Justice due Him from the Father.

It's something like refusing to sue someone who committed a crime against you and even going as far as assuming responsibility for their wrong before the law, which is where I believe "for they know not what they do" comes in.

Thanks Mr. Anony and Ihedinobi.

First, I still have not found anywhere in the bible,where it is made clear that Jesus was the son of god manifest on earth.
I fail to see how "Son of man" miraculously translates to "son of god" in your language.

So, Any prayer for forgiveness, invoked with the name of Jesus is guaranteed to be granted?
I also noticed that Jesus did not give any conditions whatsoever, he just asked that they be forgiven.
In others words, these men were not even required to acknowledged their wicked acts, let alone be remorseful and repentant.

This is quite in contrast to what ijawkid and others are saying about repentence and acceptance of jesus being pre-requisites for forgiveness.

This issue of forgiveness raises very serious moral questions for christianity.

First, by asking god to forgive those that crucified him, was jesus only refering to the roman soldiers that struck the nails unto the wooden cross or was it a general amnesty for all the actors in that drama, including, most prominently,the senhedrin, the jewish council of elders?
In other words, were the jews forgiven as well for their role in crucifiction?

The reason I ask this is that for nearly 2 millenia, the jews have been persecuted , first by the romans, then by the newly formed Roman christian church, and then by subsequent popes and lay people throughout christendom, supposedly for being instrumental for the murder of Jesus/god.

They have been doing this all this while holding the bible and preaching the message of jesus, which ironically, mentions the very fact Jesus had asked for their forgiveness.

How does anyone explain these apparent contradictions?

The OP:


Now if u claim Gods always answers Jesus, and he will not make a wish or prayer that God will not anwser, I WILL REMIND YOU OF THE PRAYER JESUS MADE ON THE NIGHT BEFORE THE EVENT , THAT "LET THIS CUP PASS OVER ME". AS IF TO TELL THE WORLD OF HOW GOD REFUSED TO ANSWER HIS PRAYER ,IT IS CLAIMED THAT HE CREID ON THE CROSS "WHY HAS THOU FORSAKEN ME".

Per the bolded, the full prayer was "O MY FATHER, IF IT BE POSSIBLE, let this cup pass from me: NEVERTHELESS, NOT AS I WILL, BUT AS THOU WILT. Matthew 26:39 KJV.

Per the red part of your statement, why do you think that that quoted statement of His meant that His prayer had been rejected by His Father?

Jesus had and still has the power to forgive sins.He knew that those soldiers were brainwashed and it was like an order from the government at that time,so they had no choice.So the forgiveness then was referring to the Soldiers that crucified him.As for the High priests and their goons,they needed repentance before they could get forgivesness.Forgiveness is not automatic.You need to show remorse,confess and where possible,restitute. This is very important, else you are on a long thing.