Myer:


I don't understand what you mean by evangelism if it is not face to face.
Cos Jesus and His disciples could have sent letters to the neighbouring cities but they rather went on a face to face evangelism even when they faced persecution, sicknesses and attacks.

Apostle Paul wanted to be out in the field ministry always {Act 20:20} but when conditions and circumstances couldn't permit him again he began writing letters that you and i are reading today like his letter to Christians in ROME, CORINTH, EPHESUS, PHILIPPI, COLOSSE, THESSALONICA and our first Century JEWISH brothers HEBREW.
So it's not today that we learn how to preach and teach without facial contact Sir!

But then they had the gifts of the Spirit and power of God to guide them. You clearly do not believe in the gifts of the spirit so your plight is understood. So for your family's sake you can keep hiding in the face of diseases.

The GIFTS are useless, hopeless and worthless if today you can't IDENTIFY them as uniquely different from all other religionists around you Sir!

Myer:


From my following 8f your exchange together, he never said God only chooses the unblemished. His affirmation rests on the verses where the Bible said even unbelievers like the crucified thief were chosen to make heaven while the self-righteous Pharisees were rejected.

You are speaking for him. Let him speak for himself. His earlier posts aren't disappearing here, at least not soon.


It's also obvious you missed the key element in a man's salvation. Salvation is not God's choice. He doesn't chose who to be saved. It is God's work alone but the decision to receive what he did for you is solely yours.

Christ died for all men. Either thief, pharisee, saducees, nairalander or scammer. He died for all.


So the key element you missed is, how then was the thief on the cross accepted and the pharisee were not. The answers were there for you to read if you chose to read with open mind.


How is a man saved, redeemed and accepted of God. It's clear in the bible

Romans 10
8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;

9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.


So, a man is saved by his faith in Christ, his gospel.


What you saw in the thief was an act of faith in the person of Jesus, listen to him again

Luke 23:42
And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom.

He believed there is a kingdom, and he believed Jesus's own it. He believed only Jesus can get him into it. That is the act, the faith, the repentance, the reaching out, the calling on the name, the believing with the heart. That is how the thief got saved. Not a forced actions or actions driven by sharing money on the street or philanthropist. It's a believing.

It wasn't a random salvation. He acted on the word, he acted by his believe. That is, when a man believe the gospel, he receives God's salvation.


So, can we say this in the case of the Pharisee?

Well it depends on the Pharisee you refer to. Nicodemus was one, Joseph of Arimathea too. And they followed Jesus.

So, why were many Pharisee rejected? Is it God that determine their rejection? Or they rejected the mercy, salvation and preaching of the kingdom.

As a Bible student, I am sure you know the answer now.


So, does God chooses randomly? No

Is the scripture clear on who is saved and who is of the lord? Yes.


Hence, it is a strange gospel to treat the scriptures as portraying God as inconsistent and confuse being, who only act on momentary emotions.

Lastly, take note, just a little attention to verses and reading them together with surrounding text will surely deliver us from this error of misinterpretation.

hoopernikao:



You are speaking for him. Let him speak for himself. His earlier posts aren't disappearing here, at least not soon.


It's also obvious you missed the key element in a man's salvation. Salvation is not God's choice. He doesn't chose who to be saved. It is God's work alone but the decision to receive what he did for you is solely yours.

Christ died for all men. Either thief, pharisee, saducees, nairalander or scammer. He died for all.


So the key element you missed is, how then was the thief on the cross accepted and the pharisee were not. The answers were there for you to read if you chose to read with open mind.


How is a man saved, redeemed and accepted of God. It's clear in the bible

Romans 10
8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;

9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.


So, a man is saved by his faith in Christ, his gospel.


What you saw in the thief was an act of faith in the person of Jesus, listen to him again

Luke 23:42
And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom.

He believed there is a kingdom, and he believed Jesus's own it. He believed only Jesus can get him into it. That is the act, the faith, the repentance, the reaching out, the calling on the name, the believing with the heart. That is how the thief got saved. Not a forced actions or actions driven by sharing money on the street or philanthropist. It's a believing.

It wasn't a random salvation. He acted on the word, he acted by his believe. That is, when a man believe the gospel, he receives God's salvation.


So, can we say this in the case of the Pharisee?

Well it depends on the Pharisee you refer to. Nicodemus was one, Joseph of Arimathea too. And they followed Jesus.

So, why were many Pharisee rejected? Is it God that determine their rejection? Or they rejected the mercy, salvation and preaching of the kingdom.

As a Bible student, I am sure you know the answer now.


So, does God chooses randomly? No

Is the scripture clear on who is saved and who is of the lord? Yes.


Hence, it is a strange gospel to treat the scriptures as portraying God as inconsistent and confuse being, who only act on momentary emotions.

Lastly, take note, just a little attention to verses and reading them together with surrounding text will surely deliver us from this error of misinterpretation.

This is why the Bible is an interesting book.
While you have correctly quoted scriptures that say that Salavation s man's choice, I will also quote scriptures that say that Salvatoon is God's choice.

Romans 8:30
And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified.

Phillipians 2:12-13
Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling; for it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure.

I hope you see here that it is not your choice or will but God's will.

Fvckyouall:


What I said in my previous statement was correct and I didn't reply you cause you were not making sense, where did I say I was a perfect being, I was scolding you for thinking unbelievers are not fit to be in God's kindom? You clearly don't read content you just paste whatever comes to your head I don't like quoting people who beat around the bush where there is no fire. So are you now the sole perfect creature God wants to meet.

The problem you believers have is that you think be just believing in God you are better than everyone else, that's the reason why Jesus told the pharesees even the harlots and tax collectors would enter his kingdom before them.
That's no different from the pharesees since you cannot understand the hypocracy here you are not well versed in the scriptures

You will really need to calm down. You will really need it here especially when you are making error in interpreting the scriptures. So bro, calm down big time.


Why was my question becoming an issue for you. I have gone beyond emotional blackmail. I asked you a simple question. Why the flare?

You said yourself here, that many Christian (you aren't counting yourself inclusive) aren't living a life Jesus wants and therefore we shouldn't be surprised that Jesus will leave the believer and accept unbeliever.

Then I asked you, will he leave you or accept you when he comes? I am sure you already see the trap you want to fall into if you answer this the reason you are agitated.

So, can we say you are part of the believers Jesus will leave behind since you aren't sure of your salvation and Jesus acceptance.

It is easy to be pointing fingers at Christians who aren't meeting up in their walk and character but now I turned the game on you, to tell me if you meet up the standard, you started throwing stones.


I will ask you again
Tell me here, if you have a perfect character and meet the standard of your message as you portray it here, if not you are part of those who will be left behind since you believe your own works and perfection is what counts when he comes. Else, then you are presenting a false teaching and you should repent and correct yourself immediately.

Who knows He can come now, please ensure you are not left behind by humbly taking to correction and this cannot happen with this high emotion you are showing. So calm down first.

Myer:


This is why the Bible is an interesting book.
While you have correctly quoted scriptures that say that Salavation s man's choice, I will also quote scriptures that say that Salvatoon is God's choice.

Romans 8:30
And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified.

Phillipians 2:12-13
Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling; for it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure.

I hope you see here that it is not your choice or will but God's will.

Bro, you don't like reading bible as a whole. You like picking verses and end up making it out of context.

Bible study is the whole bible not a verse. At least the verses you quoted read the whole chapter, the whole book, the whole testament.

If you don't read all of the scriptures or read the whole discussion you will end up misrepresenting the bible.

So, firstly read through those places you quoted, I mean the whole chapter. And observe Roman 8 you quoted the discussion started from Roman 7 so read it together. Don't lift.


Philippians you quoted, by just simply reading next verse your interpretation will fall apart.

So, always pay attention to reading the whole thought of the writer.

hoopernikao:


Bro, you don't like reading bible as a whole. You like picking verses and end up making it out of context.

Bible study is the whole bible not a verse. At least the verses you quoted read the whole chapter, the whole book, the whole testament.

If you don't read all of the scriptures or read the whole discussion you will end up misrepresenting the bible.

So, firstly read through those places you quoted, I mean the whole chapter. And observe Roman 8 you quoted the discussion started from Roman 7 so read it together. Don't lift.


Philippians you quoted, by just simply reading next verse your interpretation will fall apart.

So, always pay attention to reading the whole thought of the writer.

My challenge with you is you are already closed minded. While that is a good religious trait , it also blinds you to any new understanding.

Now you claimed I'm quoting scriptures out of context. Do you mean it is not by God's Grace that we can do anything at all?

hoopernikao:


You will really need to calm down. You will really need it here especially when you are making error in interpreting the scriptures. So bro, calm down big time.


Why was my question becoming an issue for you. I have gone beyond emotional blackmail. I asked you a simple question. Why the flare?

You said yourself here, that many Christian (you aren't counting yourself inclusive) aren't living a life Jesus wants and therefore we shouldn't be surprised that Jesus will leave the believer and accept unbeliever.

Then I asked you, will he leave you or accept you when he comes? I am sure you already see the trap you want to fall into if you answer this the reason you are agitated.

So, can we say you are part of the believers Jesus will leave behind since you aren't sure of your salvation and Jesus acceptance.

It is easy to be pointing fingers at Christians who aren't meeting up in their walk and character but now I turned the game on you, to tell me if you meet up the standard, you started throwing stones.


I will ask you again
Tell me here, if you have a perfect character and meet the standard of your message as you portray it here, if not you are part of those who will be left behind since you believe your own works and perfection is what counts when he comes. Else, then you are presenting a false teaching and you should repent and correct yourself immediately.

Who knows He can come now, please ensure you are not left behind by humbly taking to correction and this cannot happen with this high emotion you are showing. So calm down first.

I don't think there is any need of continuing this conversation as either you don't read my posts or you don't understand them, good night

Myer:


My challenge with you is you are already closed minded. While that is a good religious trait , it also blinds you to any new understanding.

Now you claimed I'm quoting scriptures out of context. Do you mean it is not by God's Grace that we can do anything at all?

You haven't done what I asked you to do, yet you accuse me. I pointed you to scriptures to do a reading. Why not do it first then tell me what you see through it. This is not about closed mind, it's about interpreting the scriptures.

Read the two verses you quoted with its surrounding text. You will see your error. Please do.

And your last phrase already shows you are confusing your words.

If you believe we do all things by God's grace why then say man's work is what determines his eternity. You need to stay on one, you can't do Babel in this. It's either grace or its not. You can't have a mix.


If I may asked you

How are you saved?
Are you very sure you will be saved when he comes?

In answering this, honestly pay attention to your mix up.

hoopernikao:


You haven't done what I asked you to do, yet you accuse me. I pointed you to scriptures to do a reading. Why not do it first then tell me what you see through it. This is not about closed mind, it's about interpreting the scriptures.

Read the two verses you quoted with its surrounding text. You will see your error. Please do.

And your last phrase already shows you are confusing your words.

If you believe we do all things by God's grace why then say man's work is what determines his eternity. You need to stay on one, you can't do Babel in this. It's either grace or its not. You can't have a mix.


If I may asked you

How are you saved?
Are you very sure you will be saved when he comes?

In answering this, honestly pay attention to your mix up.

Won't you say you're the one mixing it up?

You claim man's choice is what determines his salvation according to the scriptures you shared.

I also simply shared scriptures which show that it is not man's choice but God's choice that determines man's salvation.

Youre the one contradicting yourself here.

Fvckyouall:


I don't think there is any need of continuing this conversation as either you don't read my posts or you don't understand them, good night

This is a strawman argument. It's usually a a ready and only weapon in disposal when a man looses his stand in argument.

See, I read at least twice all you wrote before commenting. And I will come to same conclusion even if I have read it 100 times. That conclusion is that you really need to calm down, submit yourself to proper teaching of the word and avoid just throwing words that you don't understand or can explain when questioned because it will come back to you.


You should take to correction, that's what the Bible called humility. I am sure like I said, you have seen through where I want to hook you based on your earlier posts, hence your strawman attitude. So, take the correction well.


Lastly, I will seriously advise you take time to examine what you study and your interpretation of God. It's very sad for me to read a Christian says God can receive an unbeliever into his kingdom and neglect a believer because of imperfection. Do you even know what that means? Do you actually know what God's kingdom is?

And when I used that same yard stick to measure your own rightness and perfection, you started picking stones to throw, yet you will blame the pharisee in the bible days for stones.


Please, read properly, and study as a Christian. When you have done this. You will see that what God and the bible called believers aren't perfect people in character but those who have believed in Jesus and God now at work in their life. As Christ is not coming for perfect people but coming to perfect his people, the church.

Anything anyone preaches outside this will put that same person to be the first at the gate of hell. Because the yardstick you used to measure your neighbor is what will be used to measure you too, even here on Nairaland as I did to you.

Selah.

Myer:


Won't you say you're the one mixing it up?

You claim man's choice is what determines his salvation according to the scriptures you shared.

I also simply shared scriptures which show that it is not man's choice but God's choice that determines man's salvation.

Youre the one contradicting yourself here.

Bro, you still haven't read what I pointed to.

Let me show you what God's choice is in salvation. Left to God these are his desires.

1 Tim 2:4-6

4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.



1. God wills ALL MEN to be saved
2. God gave Christ to die for ALL MEN

Are all men saved?

2 Peter 3:9
The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance

Doesn't wants any to perish.
This is God's mind from the scriptures. Hence, he gave Jesus for all to die for all.


Now pay attention
Why is everyone not saved?

John 3:16
16... that whosoever believeth in him... .

That condition places the decision of salvation at the feet of man. He has to accept it. This is man's responsibilities. This is the core reason for the preaching of the gospel. This is the reasons the early church was persecuted, this is the reasons the apostles were martyred, and this is the reason the message of the gospel is still preached today.

Hence, God salvation works is not a forced acceptance, it must be received. That is why the word 'believe' is found almost in all the scriptures. Because man must receive that which God offers.


So, back to what I told you. Go and read those scriptures you shared again. The answers are there. No writer or preacher of the Bible preached the what you inferred there.

Myer:


This is why the Bible is an interesting book.
While you have correctly quoted scriptures that say that Salavation s man's choice, I will also quote scriptures that say that Salvatoon is God's choice.

Romans 8:30
And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified.

Phillipians 2:12-13
Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling; for it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure.

I hope you see here that it is not your choice or will but God's will.

I will be helping you a bit to post that Philippians here to read through.


Philippians 2:12-13
12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure .

Don't read the verse 12 and forget 13. Also don't read them in isolation. Read together. They were written together.


I will give you other translations.

JB Philips
12-13 So then, my dearest friends, as you have always followed my advice—and that not only when I was present to give it—so now that I am far away be keener than ever to work out the salvation that God has given you with a proper sense of awe and responsibility. For it is God who is at work within you, giving you the will and the power to achieve his purpose.

EHV
12 So then, my dear friends, as you have always obeyed, not only when I was with you, but also now much more in my absence, continue to work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. 13 In fact, it is God who is working in you, both to will and to work, for the sake of his good pleasure

NLT
12 Dear friends, you always followed my instructions when I was with you. And now that I am away, it is even more important. Work hard to show the results of your salvation, obeying God with deep reverence and fear. 13 For God is working in you, giving you the desire and the power to do what pleases him.

Now reread all. Observe the use of work, it's meaning, it's subject, it's application.

That verse is a verse of spiritual growth not salvation from sin. Not a verse of going to heaven. But a verse to walk in the spirit, to renew mind and obedience


A closer verse to it is

Ephes 2:10

NLT
10 For we are God’s masterpiece. He has created us anew in Christ Jesus, so we can do the good things he planned for us long ago.

KJV
10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.


Observe also that Paul has earlier spoken of this in chapter 1 before the chapter 2 of Philippians

Philippians 1:6
For I am confident of this very thing, that He who began a good work in you will perfect it until the day of Christ Jesus.

If you have read the whole philippians together you would have seen this. That is why I said you need to start reading through and through.


You will see same consistency in all Paul's writings.

So the working out is to produce the good works which God has already done in you and he still same working to help you show this forth.

MaxInDHouse:

Apostle Paul wanted to be out in the field ministry always {Act 20:20} but when conditions and circumstances couldn't permit him again he began writing letters that you and i are reading today like his letter to Christians in ROME, CORINTH, EPHESUS, PHILIPPI, COLOSSE, THESSALONICA and our first Century JEWISH brothers HEBREW.
So it's not today that we learn how to preach and teach without facial contact Sir!



The GIFTS are useless, hopeless and worthless if today you can't IDENTIFY them as uniquely different from all other religionists around you Sir!

If he knew the difference by means of prophecy GIFTS then what is the significance of the thread?

What's the difference between a Christian and others?

Simple answer ~ GIFTS of PROPHECY

Wahala dey for people who detests the truth!

You can ask him, after all he's your friend!

AkinwaleJJ:

If he knew the difference by means of prophecy GIFTS then what is the significance of the thread?
What's the difference between a Christian and others?
Simple answer ~ GIFTS of PROPHECY

MaxInDHouse:
Wahala dey for people who detests the truth!
You can ask him, after all he's your friend!

I prefer the romance section it's like they're much more open and sincere there unlike the religious, here hypocrisy is written all over their faces.
I don't just get it how people love blind arguments.
Ordinarily everyone can distinguish between good and evil no matter the religion you belong but Christianity was commissioned with a sense of responsibility as a give back to the society, you have to plan your schedule to share the good things you learned from Christ with people in the neighbourhood thereby making more friends.
I wonder what's difficult in that.
Is he trying to say a Christian must be an angel in the midst of demons?
Or Christians must possess some forms of uncommon gifts?
If so then It will be difficult for others to walk away when they can see that once you become one of them you possess special supernatural powers. What does he think makes witches and cult groups secret yet they have members everywhere? Is it not because of their special gifts and powers?
Jesus understood their hypocrisy all along, the world prefer darkness to light {John 3:19} Because i can't just figure out what makes Christians different from all other religions apart from the duty Jesus assigned to them! Matt 28:19-20

It's OK ìyá ajérìí, now you know the type of friends they're. If they aren't sincere with God's word how are they going to deal with neighbours?
That's why you'll hear funny phrases like "good Christian" "good Muslim" and so on, they thought "good" should be an adjective exclusive to people having faith!

AkinwaleJJ:


I prefer the romance section it's like they're much more open and sincere there unlike the religious, here hypocrisy is written all over their faces.
I don't just get it how people love blind arguments.
Ordinarily everyone can distinguish between good and evil no matter the religion you belong but Christianity was commissioned with a sense of responsibility as a give back to the society, you have to plan your schedule to share the good things you learned from Christ with people in the neighbourhood thereby making more friends.
I wonder what's difficult in that.
Is he trying to say a Christian must be an angel in the midst of demons?
Or Christians must possess some forms of uncommon gifts?
If so then It will be difficult for others to walk away when they can see that once you become one of them you possess special supernatural powers. What does he think makes witches and cult groups secret yet they have members everywhere? Is it not because of their special gifts and powers?
Jesus understood their hypocrisy all along, the world prefer darkness to light {John 3:19} Because i can't just figure out what makes Christians different from all other religions apart from the duty Jesus assigned to them! Matt 28:19-20

hoopernikao:


I will be helping you a bit to post that Philippians here to read through.


Philippians 2:12-13
12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure .

Don't read the verse 12 and forget 13. Also don't read them in isolation. Read together. They were written together.


I will give you other translations.

JB Philips
12-13 So then, my dearest friends, as you have always followed my advice—and that not only when I was present to give it—so now that I am far away be keener than ever to work out the salvation that God has given you with a proper sense of awe and responsibility. For it is God who is at work within you, giving you the will and the power to achieve his purpose.

EHV
12 So then, my dear friends, as you have always obeyed, not only when I was with you, but also now much more in my absence, continue to work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. 13 In fact, it is God who is working in you, both to will and to work, for the sake of his good pleasure

NLT
12 Dear friends, you always followed my instructions when I was with you. And now that I am away, it is even more important. Work hard to show the results of your salvation, obeying God with deep reverence and fear. 13 For God is working in you, giving you the desire and the power to do what pleases him.

Now reread all. Observe the use of work, it's meaning, it's subject, it's application.

That verse is a verse of spiritual growth not salvation from sin. Not a verse of going to heaven. But a verse to walk in the spirit, to renew mind and obedience


A closer verse to it is

Ephes 2:10

NLT
10 For we are God’s masterpiece. He has created us anew in Christ Jesus, so we can do the good things he planned for us long ago.

KJV
10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.


Observe also that Paul has earlier spoken of this in chapter 1 before the chapter 2 of Philippians

Philippians 1:6
For I am confident of this very thing, that He who began a good work in you will perfect it until the day of Christ Jesus.

If you have read the whole philippians together you would have seen this. That is why I said you need to start reading through and through.


You will see same consistency in all Paul's writings.

So the working out is to produce the good works which God has already done in you and he still same working to help you show this forth.

Like I said, it's you who isn't comprehending what you're reading.

Philippians 2:12 says work out your salavatiin, yes.
Phillipians 2:13 says it us God who will determine both your willingness to work out your salvation and also your ability to do it.

Clearly vs 13 proves it is all God's doing.

Have you not read that while Esau was yet unborn God already hated him and loved Jacob? Malachi 1:2-3, Romans 9:13

Did you not read in the Bible how God hardens people's hearts according to his desire? And how he himself prepares others for his use?

Until you read the Bible with an open mind, you will "choose" not to see these things.

It's ok anyway. I guess I wish i also didn't see these things, perhaps I would still have been a devout Christian.lol

AkinwaleJJ:


If he knew the difference by means of prophecy GIFTS then what is the significance of the thread?

What's the difference between a Christian and others?

Simple answer ~ GIFTS of PROPHECY

Please don't misquote me. It is called an analogy.
I simply said just the way JW concentrate on Evangelism, Pentecostal also concentrate on Prophecy.

Meaning if you're saying it's evangelism that identifies a Christian, then a Pentecostal could likewise say it is Prophecy.

However Christ and the 11 apostles say it is Love and Righteousness while Apostle Paul says it is Love and Faith that distinguish a Christian.

The purpose of this thread however is to prove this claim because most Christians this days don't have Love or Righteousness or Faith.

Cos most Christians have been taught that according to Paul all you have to do is have Faith in God through Jesus and you're saved.

Christians these days believe there's no need to be righteous since believing in Jesus already made the righteous before God. Hence corruption is even more multiplied among Christians than other religions.

A Christian believes as long as he has confessed Jesus Christ as his Lord and Saviour, no matter what he does, he is saved and heaven-bound.

This is probably the greatest problem of Christianity and the world at large.

hoopernikao:


You will really need to calm down. You will really need it here especially when you are making error in interpreting the scriptures. So bro, calm down big time.


Why was my question becoming an issue for you. I have gone beyond emotional blackmail. I asked you a simple question. Why the flare?

You said yourself here, that many Christian (you aren't counting yourself inclusive) aren't living a life Jesus wants and therefore we shouldn't be surprised that Jesus will leave the believer and accept unbeliever.

Then I asked you, will he leave you or accept you when he comes? I am sure you already see the trap you want to fall into if you answer this the reason you are agitated.

So, can we say you are part of the believers Jesus will leave behind since you aren't sure of your salvation and Jesus acceptance.

It is easy to be pointing fingers at Christians who aren't meeting up in their walk and character but now I turned the game on you, to tell me if you meet up the standard, you started throwing stones.


I will ask you again
Tell me here, if you have a perfect character and meet the standard of your message as you portray it here, if not you are part of those who will be left behind since you believe your own works and perfection is what counts when he comes. Else, then you are presenting a false teaching and you should repent and correct yourself immediately.

Who knows He can come now, please ensure you are not left behind by humbly taking to correction and this cannot happen with this high emotion you are showing. So calm down first.

I wanted to leave you both to sort this out but I couldn't, seeing you intentionally misquoting him.

He never said he was a perfect Christian. In fact his whole point is that you who claims to be a perfect could be rejected while he (whether an imperfect believer or an unbeliever) could be chosen. Because at the end of the day only God know who will make heaven.

Myer:


Please don't misquote me. It is called an analogy.
I simply said just the way JW concentrate on Evangelism, Pentecostal also concentrate on Prophecy.

Meaning if you're saying it's evangelism that identifies a Christian, then a Pentecostal could likewise say it is Prophecy.

However Christ and the 11 apostles say it is Love and Righteousness while Apostle Paul says it is Love and Faith that distinguish a Christian.

The purpose of this thread however is to prove this claim because most Christians this days don't have Love or Righteousness or Faith.

Cos most Christians have been taught that according to Paul all you have to do is have Faith in God through Jesus and you're saved.

Christians these days believe there's no need to be righteous since believing in Jesus already made the righteous before God. Hence corruption is even more multiplied among Christians than other religions.

A Christian believes as long as he has confessed Jesus Christ as his Lord and Saviour, no matter what he does, he is saved and heaven-bound.

This is probably the greatest problem of Christianity and the world at large.

You are a problem to your own soul not Christianity!

True Christians told you what makes them different from other religions but you're hell bent on faulting Christianity as you misconstrue false religions as Christians.

True Christians never said they have any form of lifestyle that makes them unique apart from the assignment given to them. But you don't want the truth you feel all religions claiming Christians are Christians even though you don't know how to distinguish between Christians and false religions.

Well let me tell you the truth you may hate me as you hate my brothers. Jehovah's Witnesses are the only Christian group today, but if you want to continue slamming your head on the wall, soothe yourself. You will never find anything worthwhile in Christendom Churches, they're not Christians!

AkinwaleJJ:


You are a problem to your own soul not Christianity!

True Christians told you what makes them different from other religions but you're hell bent on faulting Christianity as you misconstrue false religions as Christians.

True Christians never said they have any form of lifestyle that makes them unique apart from the assignment given to them. But you don't want the truth you feel all religions claiming Christians are Christians even though you don't know how to distinguish between Christians and false religions.

Well let me tell you the truth you may hate me as you hate my brothers. Jehovah's Witnesses are the only Christian group today, but if you want to continue slamming your head on the wall, soothe yourself. You will never find anything worthwhile in Christendom Churches, they're not Christians!

I've met a couple of JW members in fact I've worked with some.
And what I can tell you is that some of your members were a problem at work. Very lazy , very stubborn and obviously dragging the org down. It was a celebration when one of your members decided to resign.

Yet the Bible says Joseph, David, Daniel and the 3 Hebrew brother all had an exemplary trait that made every one know they were different. It was not their evangelism.

So if you say it is evangelism that makes you a Christian then I wonder where you get your gospel from

Myer:


I've met a couple of JW members in fact I've worked with some.
And what I can tell you is that some of your members were a problem at work. Very lazy , very stubborn and obviously dragging the org down. It was a celebration when one of your members decided to resign.

Yet the Bible says Joseph, David, Daniel and the 3 Hebrew brother all had an exemplary trait that made every one know they were different. It was not their evangelism.

So if you say it is evangelism that makes you a Christian then I wonder where you get your gospel from

Now i know where you got it all wrong.

Please concentrate on the main points and don't allow yourself to be distracted with unnecessary issue.

God called out Abraham and made a promise that through one of his descendants people of all nations will be saved. Gen 12:1-3
God established a covenant with ISRAEL and Moses was the mediator, whoever comes into that covenant whether by birth or choice becomes part of God's special people. Exodus 19:3-5
There were bad eggs as well as exemplary ones in the midst of God's people back then. The three individuals you mentioned aren't Christians they happens to be part of the few exemplary ones under the law covenant back then but God's covenant with the nation still counts on all who comes under that covenant.

No matter what manner anyone may possess as long as he detests the Israelites God will curse such a person no matter how good he might prove to be and no matter how evil an Israelite an enemy of Israel is enemy to their God.

Now let's talk about Christianity. This is the new covenant that was established to replace the old one {Jere 31:31-34} the custodians of the old covenant proved to be worthless note that God didn't change the old covenant due to the attitude of bad ones amongst the Israelites but because those taking the lead failed to uphold God's righteousness. Matt 15:1-11 ; Romans 10:1-3

The new covenant came through another mediator (Jesus Christ) and just like the former covenant whoever comes under the new covenant will become one of God's children by faith. John 1:11-12
The same way that bad eggs and exemplary ones exist among those under the former covenant is same with the new covenant, all what a person needs is to accept Jesus as your leader (King) then humbly subject yourself to the arrangement he set which is the Christian congregation, as long as you remain submissive under this arrangement God view you as his child. 1John 2:1
All those outside this arrangement are like walking corpse in God's sight. Matt 8:22
So no matter what good manners you have outside this new covenant arrangement it's like filthy rags before God. Isai 64:6
Before Christianity anyone who despises the law covenant and found guilty will be stoned to death {Levi 20:16} in the new covenant anyone found wanting and unrepentant will be disfellowshiped. 1Corin 5:9-13

So all religionists asides Christianity will perish! John 3:16

That's why Satan formed thousands of false religions with contradicting teachings and conflicting doctrines yet all of them are claiming Christians. 2Corin 11:12-14 compare to Matthew 13:25
That's the cobweb of Satan. Only one group belongs to Jesus!

I'm not good in teaching, he assisted in this!

Myer:
The whole idea of Christianity is all about how Christians are to be identifiable by the grace of God upon them, their relationship with the Holyspirit and living in victory over enemies and challenges through faith in Christ.

1. Salvation:
Christianity is all about Grace given/received for a person to be found usable and fit for God's usage through the atonement of Christ Jesus on the cross.
2. Duty and Reward:
Secondly, our duty (according to the rules of heaven) will be judged and rewarded by God at resurrection.

Eph 2:8-10:
"For by grace are you saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Not of works, lest any man should boast.
For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to good works, which God has before ordained that we should walk in them."

Myer:

I have been a Christian but this was not my reality. Which made me question the bible.

Recently a christian pastor murdered his own wife just like an unbeliever could. Which makes me question, is there even any difference between a Christian and others?

Mat 7:21:
"Not every one that said to me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that does the will of my Father which is in heaven."


Difference between Christianity and others
In Christianity:
Salvation is à gift to be received from God
Other Religions:
Salvation is to be earned by good works

shadeyinka2:

1. Salvation:
Christianity is all about Grace given/received for a person to be found usable and fit for God's usage through the atonement of Christ Jesus on the cross.
2. Duty and Reward:
Secondly, our duty (according to the rules of heaven) will be judged and rewarded by God at resurrection.

Eph 2:8-10:
"For by grace are you saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Not of works, lest any man should boast.
For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to good works, which God has before ordained that we should walk in them."





Mat 7:21:
"Not every one that said to me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that does the will of my Father which is in heaven."


Difference between Christianity and others
In Christianity:
Salvation is à gift to be received from God
Other Religions:
Salvation is to be earned by good works

Even in Christianity you can lose your salvation by lack of good works.
So at the end of the day Salvation is by good works in all religions.

Myer:


Even in Christianity you can lose your salvation by lack of good works.
So at the end of the day Salvation is by good works in all religions.

No sir. A truely born again Christian CANNOT loose his salvation BUT can certainly loose ALL his reward.

A truely Born Again Christian is Born of the Spirit AND is a new creature (not given to sin). Anyone who claims to be born again AND is still enjoying sin is MOST LIKELY NEVER Born Again.

Mat 7:16-18:
"You shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
Even so every good tree brings forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree brings forth evil fruit. A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit."

Note:
Only God makes people born again AND it is not because the person prayed "the sinners prayer"!

Myer:

Even in Christianity you can lose your salvation by lack of good works.

It's the WORKS tied to salvation not just good manners as you presumed. Israelites were to keep the law covenant and whenever they does anything contrary to what the covenant says they need SIN offering as sign of repentance.
A Christian is to keep the new covenant which is his bapstim as one of Jesus' disciples and his assignment is to join other Christians in the preaching and teaching WORK Jesus assigned to them.
Abraham became the father of all those having faith by WORKS not good manners, he followed all the instructions given him whether it palatable or not that's the WORK of faith not just good manners. There were millions of people in Abraham's day who had good manners but they lack faith in a God that will direct them to what seems unreasonable. Abraham left the world's commercial center of his time and stared living in tents, he was willing to wait for the promises of the God who called him and say he (Abraham) will become father of multitude even while he was growing old Abraham kept that FAITH, when that God asked Abraham to offer his only son as burn offering Abraham was willing to do whatever it will cost him to remain faithful before this God. YES! Abraham WORKED to build trust in the heart of that God who called him out of Ur, not just good manners as you presume! James 2:23; Hebr 11:8, 17-19

So at the end of the day Salvation is by good works in all religions.

There is no good work anywhere that's acceptable before God apart from the work God's son commissioned, all those who don't WORK for Christ along with his flock will PERISH! John 3:16, 17:3 compare to Colo 3:24

MaxInDHouse:

Apostle Paul wanted to be out in the field ministry always {Act 20:20} but when conditions and circumstances couldn't permit him again he began writing letters that you and i are reading today like his letter to Christians in ROME, CORINTH, EPHESUS, PHILIPPI, COLOSSE, THESSALONICA and our first Century JEWISH brothers HEBREW.
So it's not today that we learn how to preach and teach without facial contact Sir!

The GIFTS are useless, hopeless and worthless if today you can't IDENTIFY them as uniquely different from all other religionists around you Sir!

Without the gifts would you have believed Jesus Christ? John 4:48

Without the gifts would the Israelites have followed Moses out of Egypt? Exodus 4:8-9

Without the gifts, would Paul and the other disciples have been believed? 1 Cor 2:4

While the Fruit of the Spirit is the focus, the Gifts are equally as important.

Your lack of gifts of the spirit is evidently why you would call it useless. You must be wiser than God who deems it necessary to give gifts.

THE NAMES OF A CHRISTIANS FATHER ARE, INSTRUCTOR DIRECTOR & DISCERNMENT

Myer:

Without the gifts would you have believed Jesus Christ? John 4:48

Jesus called JWs BLESSED simply because we believe in what was WRITTEN without seeing anything else Sir! John 20:29

Without the gifts would the Israelites have followed Moses out of Egypt? Exodus 4:8-9

Before then there has never been heard of any God who could go to the world's most powerful nation and free slaves without a military force so it was necessary the see something to assure them that their liberty will be actualized.

Without the gifts, would Paul and the other disciples have been believed? 1 Cor 2:4

God promised their forefathers that whenever he establish the new covenant the gifts will serve as signs for them to know that the old covenant has become obsolete! Joel 2:28-30 compare to Act 2:16-18

While the Fruit of the Spirit is the focus, the Gifts are equally as important.

YES the GIFTS will serve for a short period because it's to notify people that a new era is here or something is about to change but it will not continue unlike the FRUIT! 1Corinthians 13:8-13

Your lack of gifts of the spirit is evidently why you would call it useless. You must be wiser than God who deems it necessary to give gifts.

The GIFTS in men {Ephesians 4:11-13} remain within God's Organization but if you're not in how would you discern? You're looking for spectacular signs, that's what you will never see anywhere again {Matthew 12:38-39} unless you want to keep deceiving yourself with fake religions where they will exhibit fake gifts with no FRUIT!

hoopernikao:



You are speaking for him. Let him speak for himself. His earlier posts aren't disappearing here, at least not soon.


It's also obvious you missed the key element in a man's salvation. Salvation is not God's choice. He doesn't chose who to be saved. It is God's work alone but the decision to receive what he did for you is solely yours.

Christ died for all men. Either thief, pharisee, saducees, nairalander or scammer. He died for all.


So the key element you missed is, how then was the thief on the cross accepted and the pharisee were not. The answers were there for you to read if you chose to read with open mind.


How is a man saved, redeemed and accepted of God. It's clear in the bible

Romans 10
8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;

9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.


So, a man is saved by his faith in Christ, his gospel.


What you saw in the thief was an act of faith in the person of Jesus, listen to him again

Luke 23:42
And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom.

He believed there is a kingdom, and he believed Jesus's own it. He believed only Jesus can get him into it. That is the act, the faith, the repentance, the reaching out, the calling on the name, the believing with the heart. That is how the thief got saved. Not a forced actions or actions driven by sharing money on the street or philanthropist. It's a believing.

It wasn't a random salvation. He acted on the word, he acted by his believe. That is, when a man believe the gospel, he receives God's salvation.


So, can we say this in the case of the Pharisee?

Well it depends on the Pharisee you refer to. Nicodemus was one, Joseph of Arimathea too. And they followed Jesus.

So, why were many Pharisee rejected? Is it God that determine their rejection? Or they rejected the mercy, salvation and preaching of the kingdom.

As a Bible student, I am sure you know the answer now.


So, does God chooses randomly? No

Is the scripture clear on who is saved and who is of the lord? Yes.


Hence, it is a strange gospel to treat the scriptures as portraying God as inconsistent and confuse being, who only act on momentary emotions.

Lastly, take note, just a little attention to verses and reading them together with surrounding text will surely deliver us from this error of misinterpretation.

My brother, more � from above upon your head ijn.

From the OT till today faith and prayer are indispensable:

The following are the steps taken by Rahab which led to her deliverance:

- FAITH (Hebrews 11:6): even though she was not there when the Israelites defeated their enemies, she just believe the whole thing (Joshua 2:9-11);

- PRAYER (Matthew 7:7): she made request, she desired, she prayed... ( Joshua 2:12-13);

- OBEDIENCE ( Genesis 22:18; Jeremiah 7:23; John 14:21-24): she obeyed the conditions given to her, this made her to stop prostitution and remain separated ( Joshua 2: 17-21; 2 Corinthians 6:17)

As it was then so it is now WHOSOEVER shall take these steps shall be saved...

That is,- BELIEVE that Jesus died and resurrected for you...( Romans 9:9-10)

-PRAY for forgiveness and grace for new life...( Acts 8:22)

-OBEY the Word of God...( 1 Peter 1:22)

May God bless all who love the Word!
Amen!!

KNOWMORE56:


My brother, more � from above upon your head ijn.

From the OT till today faith and prayer are indispensable:

The following are the steps taken by Rahab which led to her deliverance:

- FAITH (Hebrews 11:6): even though she was not there when the Israelites defeated their enemies, she just believe the whole thing (Joshua 2:9-11);

- PRAYER (Matthew 7:7): she made request, she desired, she prayed... ( Joshua 2:12-13);

- OBEDIENCE ( Genesis 22:18; Jeremiah 7:23; John 14:21-24): she obeyed the conditions given to her, this made her to stop prostitution and remain separated ( Joshua 2: 17-21; 2 Corinthians 6:17)

As it was then so it is now WHOSOEVER shall take these steps shall be saved...

That is,- BELIEVE that Jesus died and resurrected for you...( Romans 9:9-10)

-PRAY for forgiveness and grace for new life...( Acts 8:22)

-OBEY the Word of God...( 1 Peter 1:22)

May God bless all who love the Word!
Amen!!

I don't know who your pastor is but apparently he has fed you with his own doctrine not the Bible.

The Bible never mentioned that Rahab stopped her brothel business.
Neither did it tell us she prayed to God.
She simply recognised that through the rumours she's heard about Israelites, they usually conquer their enemies so she decided to help them on the condition that they spared her family.

It might help you to know that God doesn't want to be understood. The moment you think you understand God he changes his strategy.

Which is why I've always maintained that what Jesus said is that the Holyspirit is very important in a Christians life. If you only follow biblical examples chances are you will assume what God is saying when he's doing something else. But if truly you can be sure that the Holyspirit leads you, then you can know per time what God desires of you.

Cos as the scriptures says as many as are led by Spirit these are the sons of God Romans 8:14

Myer:


I wanted to leave you both to sort this out but I couldn't, seeing you intentionally misquoting him.

He never said he was a perfect Christian. In fact his whole point is that you who claims to be a perfect could be rejected while he (whether an imperfect believer or an unbeliever) could be chosen. Because at the end of the day only God know who will make heaven.

You are still speaking for him. There is no where I also did misquote him.

Below is the focus of his message.

GOD CAN LEAVE A BELIEVER AND CHOOSE AN UNBELIEVER even at Jesus's coming.

Observe his references, Paul, Thief on the right hand.

I then presented the Bible view to him about the faith of man in salvation, hence a child of God can't be compared to that of the devil.

Then, see his conclusion about my write up.

YOU HAVE NO UNDERSTANDING OF THE SCRIPTURES.

Which I didn't dispute with him.

But then, I asking him to present his understanding, you claimed I misquote him.

Can God leave his children and cling to the seed of the devil? That is what he emphasized.


Then I asked him a simple question, if he will be part of those Jesus will leave behind.

Why can't he answer the question since he already know who Jesus will not choose. I don't think that is a hard question or should lead to his flaring up.

Now do you know where his self righteousness and sense of perfection comes from?

Moment he could t sincerely answer that question, it shows he doesn't believe he will be left behind. Such persons will tell you "by grace", yet is the grace available for them alone?

He should honestly answer the question to know his expectation when Jesus appear. Then we can know the intent of his heart.

Lastly, Like I said, when you put God to be an unstable being that act of emotions and reactionary, who does even know what he wants or can change his word anytime, such preaching is what breeds his assumptions and erroneous explanation of the scriptures.