Myer:


Good point. So hace you ever prayed to Allah since it means God?
Clearly you do not pray to YHWH but to God. So why can't you pray to Allah?

Or because the word is mostly attributed to Muslims you can't?

shadeyinka:

I have never prayed to Allah in my life.
Since Hausa or Arabic equivalent of God(English) is Allah: the question is which Allah? The Islamic God or the God of the Jews and Christians! The context matter, for Allah simply mean "the god"!

YHWH is the Name of the Creator of everything. Every other description are TITLES!

Myer:


Have you ever prayed to YHWH or you pray to God?

shadeyinka:

I have ALWAYS prayed to YHWH!
God is just one of His titles I use.

Other Titles include Lord, Lord God, Almighty, I AM, I AM that I AM, Everlasting Father, Mighty God, El Shaddai, Merciful God etc

Myer:


Well, that makes you one of very few Christians who do that. Cos Christians mostly pray to God through Jesus Christ with No mention of YHWH at all.

However back to the topic, saying Muslims and Christians don't worship the same God is just the same as saying Jews and Christians don't worship thevsame God just because of choice of the prophet.

Jews believe Moses to be their Prophet from God.

Christians believe Jesus to be their Prophets from God. However the Jews rejected Him cos he equated himself to God which God Himself had already instructed them to avoid and even stone such person to death.

Muslims believ Mohammed to be their Prophet who also shares .out if the same stories with Jews and Christians except just like the Jews he also believes no man/prophet should be equated to God.

Myer:


Well, that makes you one of very few Christians who do that. Cos Christians mostly pray to God through Jesus Christ with No mention of YHWH at all.

However back to the topic, saying Muslims and Christians don't worship the same God is just the same as saying Jews and Christians don't worship thevsame God just because of choice of the prophet.

Jews believe Moses to be their Prophet from God.

Christians believe Jesus to be their Prophets from God. However the Jews rejected Him cos he equated himself to God which God Himself had already instructed them to avoid and even stone such person to death.

Muslims believ Mohammed to be their Prophet who also shares .out if the same stories with Jews and Christians except just like the Jews he also believes no man/prophet should be equated to God.

haekymbahd:
According to Allah

Allah SWT said:


"And Adam and his wife ate of it, and their private parts became apparent to them, and they began to fasten over themselves from the leaves of Paradise. And Adam disobeyed his Lord and erred."
(QS. Taa-Haa 20: Verse 121)

"Then his Lord chose him and turned to him in forgiveness and guided [him]."
(QS. Taa-Haa 20: Verse 122)

"[Allah] said, Descend from Paradise - all, [your descendants] being enemies to one another. And if there should come to you guidance from Me - then whoever follows My guidance will neither go astray [in the world] nor suffer [in the Hereafter]."
(QS. Taa-Haa 20: Verse 123)

"And whoever turns away from My remembrance - indeed, he will have a depressed life, and We will gather him on the Day of Resurrection blind."
(QS. Taa-Haa 20: Verse 124)


* Via Qur'an English http://quran-en.com


My question is why did God sent prophets for what aim why didn't he send he just send Jesus straight...

Myer:


Good question.
An omniscient God should have already known that no other prophet could accomplished this except the sacrifice of Jesus Christ. So why waste everyone's time?

But Christians will always defend God that he needed us to see that without Jesus we could not be saved that way why he first sent his prophets.

enilove:


The day you were born was not the day you started walking , was it ?

Somethings must be in place before the Son of God could come to be born by human being, dwell among among human beings and died for human beings .
These are known as CONSECRATIONS .

A land was chosen where the Messiah would be born and that land needs to be consecrated and be demon free.
That was why God took Abraham and his descendants to Canaan land :

Genesis 12:1,5 KJV
Now the Lord had said unto Abram, Get thee out of thy country, and from thy kindred, and from thy father's house, unto a land that I will shew thee: [5] And Abram took Sarai his wife, and Lot his brother's son, and all their substance that they had gathered, and the souls that they had gotten in Haran; and they went forth to go into the land of Canaan; and into the land of Canaan they came.

The people whom the messiah willl be sent to, have to be holy and be ready to receive the Son of God . So God gave them laws to abide with pending the coming of the Messiah .
Moses specifically told them to follow the Messiah.

Deuteronomy 18:15 KJV
The Lord thy God will raise up unto thee a Prophet from the midst of thee, of thy brethren, like unto me; unto him ye shall hearken;

All other prophets before Jesus testified about his coming :
Isaiah 9:6 KJV
For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

When Jesus came , he died for our sins and he said , '' it is finish '' .

Meaning , confusion about religion is not from God but from Satan . God chose the Israelites for the salvation of the whole world not the Arabs .

It is now left to you to believe it or reject it . That decision is what will determine where you will spend your eternity

Myer:
Do Christians and Muslims worship the same God?

If Yes, give your reasons.
If No, give your reasons.

bixton:


In topics like this it's better you do a wide research or have an extensive knowledge of it rather than seeking out opinions or based on hear say.
So you can balance all arguments for or against.

Now to the topic...........
The God of the Christians/Jews is not the same as that of the Muslims.
Reason is that if they have the same God then certainly there won't be 2 different Holy Books and Prophet Mohammed's name certainly would have find his name in the Holy Bible just as they have the names of the Holy Bible Prophets in the Qur'an.
Another view..........

Isaac and Ishmael are sons of Abraham.
Abraham to Isaac to the point of Jesus Christ one can actually trace the geneology/family tree with ease.

I may be wrong.......

But is that the case from Abraham to Ishmael to Prophet Mohammed( knowing he is the only Prophet to be given the message)?
Is there any historical proof that Prophet Mohammed is a direct descendant of Ishmael(blood line)?

Another is why would the same God raise up 2 different religions; to what purpose?

Remember Abraham had another wife after the death of Sarah and she also gave him children. Certainly God's promises on Abraham covers his blood line first and by extension every other person that believes in it. Why is there not another religion from the child/ren of Keturah to buttress their point?

Those who are historians/theologians compare the spread of Judiasm/Christianity before the time of the Roman empire and do same likewise for Islam during the time of Mohammed?

bixton:



In topics like this it's better you do a wide research or have an extensive knowledge of it rather than seeking out opinions or based on hear say.
So you can balance all arguments for or against.




Now to the topic...........
The God of the Christians/Jews is not the same as that of the Muslims.
Reason is that if they have the same God then certainly there won't be 2 different Holy Books and Prophet Mohammed's name certainly would have find his name in the Holy Bible just as they have the names of the Holy Bible Prophets in the Qur'an.

bixton:

Another view..........

Isaac and Ishmael are sons of Abraham.
Abraham to Isaac to the point of Jesus Christ one can actually trace the geneology/family tree with ease.



I may be wrong.......

But is that the case from Abraham to Ishmael to Prophet Mohammed( knowing he is the only Prophet to be given the message)?
Is there any historical proof that Prophet Mohammed is a direct descendant of Ishmael(blood line)?

bixton:



Another is why would the same God raise up 2 different religions; to what purpose?

Remember Abraham had another wife after the death of Sarah and she also gave him children. Certainly God's promises on Abraham covers his blood line first and by extension every other person that believes in it. Why is there not another religion from the child/ren of Keturah to buttress their point?

bixton:

Those who are historians/theologians compare the spread of Judiasm/Christianity before the time of the Roman empire and do same likewise for Islam during the time of Mohammed?

Myer:

My question after everything is... To what end?

Imagine even the death of Christ did not solve the problem of sin.

Adam and Eve only committed 1 act of sin and fell from glory and were cast out of Eden right?
Yet all the acts of righteousness of all the prophets combined and even Jesus Christ has not solved and nullified that single act of sin that was committed to restore man to glory and into Eden?

Is the sin of Adam more powerful that all the Roghteousness of Christ?

Honest question.

haekymbahd:
Are you trying to say the Jews and Christians follow the same holy book.. Kindly distinguish between Torah and Gospel


What do you understand by the law of Torah ?

Why would the same God give different Holy Books Torah and Gospel.. The Jews don't follow Gospel neither do Christians follow law of Torah they believed law has been abolished..

Allah SWT said:

"The Jews say The Christians have nothing [true] to stand on, and the Christians say, The Jews have nothing to stand on, although they [both] recite the Scripture. Thus the polytheists speak the same as their words. But Allah will judge between them on the Day of Resurrection concerning that over which they used to differ."
(QS. Al-Baqara 2: Verse 113)

* Via Qur'an English http://quran-en.com

On the issue of Muhammad being mentioned in the Bible we as Muslims believed Prophet Muhammad is the comforter Jesus
was talking about to guide to all truth either you accept or not it's your choice...

Why will I argue the bolded!!!.

The comforter(Holy Spirit) whom Jesus Christ spoke about in the Holy Bible is Prophet Mohammed in the Qur'an according to you

hope you know kedar is one of children of ishmael
Genesis 25
13 These are the names of the sons of Ishmael, named in the order of their births: Nebaioth, the firstborn of Ishmael, and Kedar, Adbeel, Mibsam,

14 Mishma, Dumah, Massa,

15 Hadad, Tema, Jetur, Naphish, and Kedemah.

Now where is kedar located answer Arabia

Isaiah 21:13
13 The mournful, inspired prediction (a burden to be lifted up) concerning Arabia: In the forests and thickets of Arabia you shall lodge, O you caravans of Dedanites [from northern Arabia].

14To the thirsty [Dedanites] bring water, O inhabitants of the land of Tema [in Arabia]; meet the fugitive with bread [suitable] for him.

15For they have fled from the swords, from the drawn sword, from the bent bow, and from the grievousness of war [the press of battle].

......... [b]all the glory of Kedar [an Arabian tribe] will fail

Is this bold above a typo error ? If it's not do you know what this actually means(don't ask me to explain further)?



17And the remainder of the number of archers and their bows, the mighty men of the sons of Kedar, will be diminished and few; for the Lord, the God of Israel, has spoken it.
[/b]

Muhammad is from Arabia decsndant of Kedar descendant of ishmael

I try not to hold biased views when I read or do research. But from the numerous documents online there's no actual verified facts to that as to that geneology. It's based only on assumption.



Now if you are being honest you will realise that God specifically made a convenat Ishmael.. So don't compare Ishmael to the rest of Abraham's other children unless you show proof where God specifically made covenant with Abraham other children

It's just plain english and easy to understand.
When God made a convenant with Abraham who did God speak to?

Yes...God made a convenant with Ishmael but did God speak directly to Ishmael or his mother in making the convenant ?


Genesis 16
11 And the Angel of the Lord continued, See now, you are with child and shall bear a son, and shall call his name Ishmael [God hears], because the Lord has heard and paid attention to your affliction.

12 And he [Ishmael] will be as a [b]wild ass among men; his hand will be against every man and every man's hand against him, and he will live to the east and on the borders of all his kinsmen.


I didn't getting what you meant here....

bixton:
......... all the glory of Kedar [an Arabian tribe] will fail

Is this bold above a typo error ? If it's not do you know what this actually means(don't ask me to explain further)?

bixton:
Yes...God made a convenant with Ishmael but did God speak directly to Ishmael or his mother in making the convenant ?

haekymbahd:
The same God also said
Isaiah 42
11 Let the wilderness and its cities lift up their voices, the villages that Kedar inhabits. Let the inhabitants of the rock [Sela or Petra] sing; let them shout from the tops of the mountains!

12 Let them give glory to the Lord and declare His praise in the islands and coastal regions.

16 And I will bring the blind by a way that they know not; I will lead them in paths that they have not known. I will make darkness into light before them and make uneven places into a plain. These things I have determined to do [for them]; and I will not leave them forsaken.

17 They shall be turned back, they shall be utterly put to shame, who trust in graven images, who say to molten images, You are our gods.

24 Who gave up Jacob [the kingdom of Judah] for spoil, and [the kingdom of] Israel to the robbers? Was it not the Lord, He against Whom we [of Judah] have sinned and in Whose ways they [of Israel] would not walk, neither were they obedient to His law or His teaching?

25 Therefore He poured out upon [Israel] the fierceness of His anger and the strength of battle. And it set him on fire round about, yet he knew not [the lesson of repentance which the Assyrian conquest was intended to teach]; it burned him, but he did not lay it to heart.

Allah SWT said:

"And mention in the Book, Ishmael. Indeed, he was true to his promise, and he was a messenger and a prophet."
(QS. Maryam 19: Verse 54)

"And [mention] when We made the House a place of return for the people and [a place of] security. And take, [O believers], from the standing place of Abraham a place of prayer. And We charged Abraham and Ishmael, [saying], Purify My House for those who perform Tawaf and those who are staying [there] for worship and those who bow and prostrate [in prayer]."
(QS. Al-Baqara 2: Verse 125)

* Via Qur'an English http://quran-en.com

Myer:

My question after everything is... To what end?

Imagine even the death of Christ did not solve the problem of sin.

Adam and Eve only committed 1 act of sin and fell from glory and were cast out of Eden right?
Yet all the acts of righteousness of all the prophets combined and even Jesus Christ has not solved and nullified that single act of sin that was committed to restore man to glory and into Eden?

Is the sin of Adam more powerful that all the Roghteousness of Christ?

Honest question.

hoopernikao:


Chairmannnnn.
This your honest question comes from a root of wrong information about the concept of salvation that you may have been exposed to.

Myer:


Wrong information as written in the bible though.

hoopernikao:


Well, if a man read wrongly, he will see wrongly and know wrongly. Which will then lead him to believe wrongly, act wrongly and speak wrongly and lastly end up living wrongly.

You can see, when we don't read properly, it leads to a long chain that ends up controlling who we are.

I have implore you severally to first knock off all false information you have learnt about the scriptures and start relearning by reading the scriptures PROPERLY with focused attention and openness of heart.

The solution to this challenge of misinterpreting the scriptures by you is very simple one, but you can make it complex by a single act of closing your heart to relearn.


Hence, your inference of Salvation and Sin doctrine is the very fabric upon with the whole scriptures is built. A very loud doctrine all through the volume of the books and emphatic theme of the scriptures, yet you still miss its implication, application and interpretation, and am sure likewise it's practices.

Bro, work dey o.

Myer:


Well, I'm actually curious as to your understanding of the doctrine of Salvation and Sin, and what I seem to have misread, mis-seen, misinterpreted and mis-believed.

You know as much as I appreciate the theories in the bible, I believe as a witness of Christ, you will be kind to cite practical examples too.

hoopernikao:


You inference is not even about examples. Your statement touched the very fabric on which the work of salvation is built. It stabbed the very suffering, patience, sorrow, death and victory of Christ over sin built on the longsuffering of God in actualizing man's salvation from sin.

In simple terms, your statement asked for another savior and thereby take the death of Christ as vanity (Gal 2:21)

It makes me sad really but God's patience and grace still abounds. So I believe you will come to understand this in dew time.

Myer:


Does my statement not touch the obvious questions you're not allowed to ask as a Christian?

The whole purpose of Salvation through Christ based on the premise of victory over sin and the devil right?

How come after the "victory", sin and evil still persists even to the point of overcoming Christians and not only unbelievers?

Maybe you should tell me what changed between Pre-Christ and Post-Chr8st.

hoopernikao:
In

You are missing the point totally and you are even haughty about it.

There is no question that can't be asked in Christianity. Anyone who tells you not to ask a certain question is ignorant.

But the issue here is that you aren't asking question, you made an assertion, you made an affirmative statement. Read your statement again.

And you know why am bothered?

Not because your statement can have any effect on what Christ already done for man and for you but because your wrong believing will be what you live and else you have confessed and accepted the victory of sin over you and the persistent of evil over your actions.

---

I am speaking to you the way I am currently because I assumed all you are saying are from point of ignorance and not pride against God's word else I would have handled this differently.

But what baffles me is that you are yet to see in these few years, your wrongs in Bible interpretation hence your believe system is already seeing the casualty. Bro, you must be careful. Atheism is just a minute away to openly welcome you if you continue on this road.


When you don't know or when something is not clear, ask questions with openness not from knowledge driven by error or confusion. It's obvious as at today you are neither here or there. And that is not a good virtue even in the natural.

There are no neutral ground, you must help yourself to decide what you hold true, it is a sign of stability.


So, please sit Bro, and relearn what salvation is about. You obviously don't know what it is at all. Quite sorry to say.

hoopernikao:
In

You are missing the point totally and you are even haughty about it.

There is no question that can't be asked in Christianity. Anyone who tells you not to ask a certain question is ignorant.

But the issue here is that you aren't asking question, you made an assertion, you made an affirmative statement. Read your statement again.

And you know why am bothered?

Not because your statement can have any effect on what Christ already done for man and for you but because your wrong believing will be what you live and else you have confessed and accepted the victory of sin over you and the persistent of evil over your actions.

---

I am speaking to you the way I am currently because I assumed all you are saying are from point of ignorance and not pride against God's word else I would have handled this differently.

But what baffles me is that you are yet to see in these few years, your wrongs in Bible interpretation hence your believe system is already seeing the casualty. Bro, you must be careful. Atheism is just a minute away to openly welcome you if you continue on this road.


When you don't know or when something is not clear, ask questions with openness not from knowledge driven by error or confusion. It's obvious as at today you are neither here or there. And that is not a good virtue even in the natural.

There are no neutral ground, you must help yourself to decide what you hold true, it is a sign of stability.


So, please sit Bro, and relearn what salvation is about. You obviously don't know what it is at all. Quite sorry to say.

hoopernikao:
In

You are missing the point totally and you are even haughty about it.

There is no question that can't be asked in Christianity. Anyone who tells you not to ask a certain question is ignorant.

But the issue here is that you aren't asking question, you made an assertion, you made an affirmative statement. Read your statement again.

And you know why am bothered?

Not because your statement can have any effect on what Christ already done for man and for you but because your wrong believing will be what you live and else you have confessed and accepted the victory of sin over you and the persistent of evil over your actions.

---

I am speaking to you the way I am currently because I assumed all you are saying are from point of ignorance and not pride against God's word else I would have handled this differently.

But what baffles me is that you are yet to see in these few years, your wrongs in Bible interpretation hence your believe system is already seeing the casualty. Bro, you must be careful. Atheism is just a minute away to openly welcome you if you continue on this road.


When you don't know or when something is not clear, ask questions with openness not from knowledge driven by error or confusion. It's obvious as at today you are neither here or there. And that is not a good virtue even in the natural.

There are no neutral ground, you must help yourself to decide what you hold true, it is a sign of stability.


So, please sit Bro, and relearn what salvation is about. You obviously don't know what it is at all. Quite sorry to say.

Myer:


If a Muslim tells you to learn or relearn what salvation in Islam is about, will you?

As far as you know, you are only following the religion you have chosen. And this has sharpened and determined your perspective about yourself, others and life.

But while non-religious people don't judge you, you have been instructed by your religion to judge others by seeing them as sinner and hell-bound even when your religion preaches against judging others. Isnt that ironic?

Myer:


It's a little too late for me to be an atheist. At best I'm an apostate.
Would have preferred to be an atheist though just that my logical reason proves otherwise.

hoopernikao:




No be only apo-state, you will soon see apo-country or apo-city. Lol

Online Apo(ses). Nairaland is amazing.

hoopernikao:


Are you having hidden fears? Why trying to play sentiment cards that never existed. Have I ever called you a sinner or judge you based on your actions? Where is hell mentioned on all my discussion? Hopeful you can narrate your fears well then I may be able to help instead of using sentiments.

So, don't bring in what we aren't discussing to our discussion. You didn't tell me you are a Muslim nor tell me you are a sinner. So, keep that aside. You speak about the scriptures and that is what you should maintain. No blackmail. It's your decision afterwards that can judge you not me judging you.


Back to the real issue Sir.
I said your interpretation of the scriptures are misguided, this is what you should address and relearn. If you claim you study the Bible, then you need a real relearning of the same to help you see things better. This is what you should take with open arm. And if you know you don't read the Bible, then why not quit making unfounded statement about it to avoid presenting yourself in bad light.

Hope am clear enough.