₦airaland Forum

Wicked guy..!!!

In our time, people don't live as long as they used to back then so for us its 40/5 = 8years...Then Joshua will take over

That part, I cannot answer...
We just have to wait and see.

Hopefully, a 'new' Wenger. He has done a lot for the club and though his players have let him down at times, he also needs to be a little bit less stubborn and demand more both from the board and from his under-performing players. Treating them like children will take us nowhere.

^^^
Moses did his best, the people were just too stubborn

El Guapo: [color=#0066ff]Words Of One Under a French Spell [/color]

I didn't say we will get there with the current circumstances still in play, I only know eventually, we will get there!

Remember it was Joshua who led the people into Canaan..

El Guapo: [color=#0066ff]Two things i am Allergic to - Frustration and Barrenness!

You Guys are really Strong I swear -- 7years Of Marching towards Canaan [/color]

Eventually we will get there!

I also hear TH14 flew to Moscow last night to have dinner with Usmanov..

Read as much as you like into that

Even the 'bosses' are feeling the heat

Stan Kroenke 'has no passion' for Arsenal according to ex-director

Majority shareholder Stan Kroenke has been accused of "having no passion" for Arsenal by honorary vice president, and former director, Lady Bracewell-Smith.

Bracewell-Smith, who sold Kroenke her shares last year, tweeted: "If making money was the motivating factor, surely there are better ways.

She continued: "Football is a business of passion. SK has no passion for AFC."

Arsenal, beaten by Bradford in the League Cup, could not be contacted.

When asked her view of the way the club is being run, Bracewell-Smith added: "Disappointed would be an understatement!

"[He] shows he cares very little. Why he wanted to be part of AFC I do not know."

In October Kroenke insisted Arsenal are still targeting trophies despite the Gunners selling captain Robin van Persie to rivals Manchester United in August.

Van Persie's departure followed the sales of Cesc Fabregas and Samir Nasri the previous summer.

There is also uncertainty over the future of England international Theo Walcott, whose contract expires next summer.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/20721492

debosky: You mean proudly's favourite? The player he kept insisting we should never have sold?

He's still my favourite o I try to watch Ipswich games whenever he's fielded. He's way better than one touch striker wannabe - Marouane Chamakh

BTW, good news. Gervinho would soon be off to Ivory Coast's camp for the ACN.

Its easy to look back now and make analysis. Its easy to look back now and say Clichy and Kolo would still be part of first team now. Same Clichy that Arsenal fans would cry everytime his name appeared on the team list (Im sure I can dig out Nairaland archives to prove this) and same Kolo, Arsene had already converted to a RB because he didn't fit into the team.

If Carzola's team is poor compared to the team Pires joined, who's fault? Who confessed to breaking up the invincibles too quickly? Where we forced to sell Gilberto, Pires, Lehmann, Gallas and even the Kolo and Clichy you mentioned in your list? Did Song leave for money to City or Chelsea? Were some of these players not sold to accommodate young players coming in many of whom failed to live up to expectation?

How many times have we heard in the past that there's money to spend and we refused to spend? How many times has Wenger himself come out to say buying new players would stunt the growth of others? If his young players disappointed him, then its his fault not anyone else. He met a solid base, built a successful team on it. He destroyed his own base himself. Blaming Chelsea and City for that is lazy.

When you ask how many Sol Campbells are available on a free, you talk like they used to grow on trees back then. Despite that, pray tell me, how much did QPR pay for Julio Caeser? How much did we pay for Chamakh? How much did Juve pay for Pirlo?

Abeg, let's leave it at this. Like you, I'm tired of typing epistles.

My conclusion is AW dismantled his team himself. Yes we were forced to sell some of them but Wenger also FAILED to buy quality all in the name of developing youngsters. I can even argue that a few of these players left not because of money but because we were not winning but that's for another time. AW's youngsters failed him. Many of them did not live up to expectation (Owusu, Bendtner, Denilson, Senderous, Djorou, 'Almunia', and others) and some of them left after making a name for themselves (Cesc, Song). While we were waiting, we lost out on players not because we couldn't afford some of them but because we were waiting. Today, we have realized our mistake and we are now back to buying experienced players ala Carzola, Podolski, Giroud. Didn't we get these players from the same transfer market? We can't blame Chelsea and City for our woes, AW believed too much in his own HYPE!

All I know is Arsenal has never really been known as a club that brings in 'star' players. We've always brought in virtually unknown players at bargain prices and turned them into stars. So using Chelsea and City as excuse is really weak. What world star player did we bring in to Arsenal when we were at Highbury? Henry? (was struggling at Juve) Vieira?(hardly got a game at Milan) Reyes? (scored 22 goals in 4 seasons at Sevilla before joining us says it all) Edu? (from Brazil) Petit? (from Monaco. Only serious contenders back then was Rangers). Did we lose players, yes we did Anelka went to Madrid, Overmars and Petit left for Barcelona.

@coogar, Henry and Vieira made their names at Arsenal, just like Fabregas (world and European champion at Arsenal), Nasri (to an extent), Adebayour. Wiltord was bought just after he topped the charts in the French league. We bought Giroud on that pedestal too. Pires was a star player at Bordeux before joining us, same as Carzola at his previous club. Nothing has changed for Arsenal in terms of getting players. Same way we couldn't afford the Ronadinhos, Ronaldo, Denilson, etc back then is same way we can't afford the Matas, Hazards, etc now. In spite of the challenges back then, we were still able to make do with what we had. Why are we struggling now? I really don't agree that Chelsea and co have spoilt any market. The market has always been beyond our reach but it has never been an excuse until now.

agabaI23: When your enemy becomes you will know that it is not going well with.

Coogar has turned an Arsenal defender.

Honestly...u no see Ferguson and Wenger these days?

debosky: @proudly9ja

Who says it's normal now to not win trophies?

the same people that said 4th place is like a trophy

debosky: You didn't answer the pertinent questions - what was the external environment at the time we went 8 years without a trophy? Did we move stadium, and get two billionaires into the league during that period? I am not interested in sacking managers as 'evidence' of 'mentality'. Liverpool have sacked 3 managers and are now out of the CL for 3 seasons running. Rational action addressing the issue - that's what I am interested in.

I was not there in the 60s so cannot say but the managers at that time will also give you excuses. I just looked through the internet and the only thing stated there was that we couldn't win at that time because we 'couldn't attract the quality of players that won us trophies the previous decade'. I don't know the reasons why.
Anyways, I have not asked for a change of manager. If anything, I have said it over and over again that as long as we remain miserly with money, AW in my opinion is the best Manager I'ld have. I referred to the 60s case for those who talk like Arsene Wenger raised the bar at Arsenal to see that the bar has always been raised!

debosky: Stop shifting the goalposts - not selling Walcott hasn't changed the fact that other players (e.g. Sagna) are now sounding like they'll leave. That's what you claimed 'making a statement' would do - stop others from leaving. That he's scored goals - isn't that what he's paid for? Or is that now a favour to Arsenal?

What post am I shifting? What statement can be made after selling two of the best three players in a season? We already made our statement...any player who says he wants to leave, can leave! Walcott has not said so yet. AW has come out to tell us Walcott's case is about money. Walcott himself has said its about playing in a new position. NOONE has mentioned Walcott willing to join any other club. We would have made a BIG statement if we had refused to sell Song and/or RVP not a player who has stated over and over again that he wants to stay.

debosky: It is a major part of the issue - if you don't understand why something happened, how can you rationally address it or put it in context? If the 8 years aren't lumped together, why is it the mantra y'all keep on repeating as if it's one homogeneous time period? How can you ignore the impact of big spenders like Citeh and Chelski and make a rational assessment?

Please for benefit of doubt, can you explain the impact of Chelsea and City? I need to know how it's their fault that we've lost key games to small clubs including Bradford last night. I will also like to know how City and Chelsea have caused the quality of our team to go down since the late 90s till date.I will like to know how many times we play against City and Chelsea every season and how many times we have been kicked out of the FA and League cups by Chelsea and City? Chelsea beat us in one final and City beat us last year or year before but was it City or Chelsea that beat us yesterday? The quality of our squad has gone down over the years and whilst money is part of the problem, there are many other issues which need to be sorted.

debosky: I disagree - Wenger has stopped relying solely on youth as money is getting less tight and is buying more experienced players. The board just negotiated an improved financial deal to help us better compete. I agree we aren't seeing much benefit (yet) on the pitch of changing but you can't say there are 'no signs' of the board/Wenger trying to change the tide. This is where I differ from the 'everything is wrong' parade.

Do you know why we are not seeing any change? Its the same reasons. No1. We are still selling our top players and no2 Because we are not properly replacing players. Its simple really. Carzola, Walcott and maybe Arteta/Diaby partnership will eventually improve, but we will then go on to sell one or two of them and then we will start all over again. Its been the case from eternity. Reyes, Hleb, Cesc, Nasri, RVP, Song....who's next?

debosky: Why can those 8 years be excused? Because we sacked managers? How did we do in the league in those years? Did we move stadiums and have two billionaire owners step into the league in that period?

We sacked managers because it was not a normal thing for Arsenal to go trophyless. The way you people talk these days, its as if Arsene Wenger brought Arsenal from zero to the current level we are at. I mentioned the fact that we sacked two managers in 8 years to show that we have never had a loser (or top four is a trophy) mentality.

debosky: I did - Liverpool was one of the interested clubs. The only reason the 'not-agreeing a deal' issue became such a hot topic was because he would've been sold in normal circumstances if he didn't agree a deal. Besides, not selling him in the summer hasn't made a difference - doing the same in January won't make any difference either.

If Walcott not signing a deal prelude to his last contract year was an issue, it would have been big news last season not now ala RVP, Sagna (now),Nasri, etc. How can you say not selling Walcott hasn't made a difference? Imagine if we had sold him last summer...imagine selling arguably our second best player from last season along with the best and third best? Imagine this season without a player who has scored 10 goals despite just having only 9 starts? Imagine what message we would have sent to the young players in the team as per ambition (if any)?

debosky: I'm a realist - I know there are problems - serious ones at that - but I do not and will not simply write off the past 8 years because we didn't win trophies. Dudu might be overly optimistic, but we do have a set up (financially, infrastructure, etc.) which can enable success - some (but not all) of that has been at the expense of trophies/investment in the team. The performance over those years as a whole was not/is not good enough, but it wasn't all rubbish either.

You see, the past 8 years isn't just about being without trophies. The first few years of those 8 years, many Arsenal fans were still optimistic. Although we craved for new and experienced players like our rivals were getting, with the level of football we played back then, we knew it was only a matter of time. But we have watched Arsene Wenger sell our top performers (whether forced or not is not the issue now), remain stubborn about certain under par players (Senderous, Almunia, Denilson, etc), and its natural to wonder where the trophies will come from.
Arsenal has moved from a team that had strong, experienced players who played good football and won, to a team with young, inexperienced players who though played good football but found it hard to win, to more recently, a team filled with 'experienced' players who play crap football and still find it hard to win.
Bottom line is, in the past, we could give excuses and say Stoke should play rugby not football, Sam Alardyce only knows route one football, Chelsea parks the bus, etc. Today, the team is just poor. We gone down over the years. So its not just about not winning trophies, that's only the output of what is wrong. And fans are worried because there are no signs indicating that Arsene Wenger and the board are interested in changing the tide

debosky: Who said it wasn't odd? Did I say it was commonplace? Besides, Arsenal's history is not limited to the time under Wenger, or is it?

This was what you said:

"But, the fact is that these performances are not 'new' or 'odd' when taken in light of Arsenal's overall history."

debosky: Why make the 60s an 'aside' or isn't that part of our history? What was our league position during that time in the 60s?

For history that spans over 100 years, a decade can be excused. BTW, between 1958 and 1966, a period of 8 years (coincidentally), we failed to win any trophy AND we sacked two managers.

debosky: Which team? The current team? How can you 'want' your Arsenal 'back' if you're talking about the current team?

The TEAM - Arsenal FC. Even with our so called financial challenges, we can still achieve meaning we have not managed our resources (money and players) the best way possible.

debosky: The very fact that Walcott may follow shows the patent folly in your 'making a statement' suggestion. Arsenal 'made a statement' by not selling Walcott in the summer - yet he'll still leave if he chooses to, so what has changed? Or is there some magic surrounding Fab and Nasri making them the only cases for 'making a statement'?

We refused to sell him last summer? Did you read anything about Walcott leaving last summer? The only thing we heard was Walcott and Arsenal failing to agree on a figure. Let's make the statement now. Let's refuse to sell him January.

debosky: No one is disputing the above - however, if the true cause of the problem is not recognised and addressed, attempts to 'fix' this problem may only exacerbate the problem.

At least you agree that there is a problem and you're not waiting for FFP to kick in and Arsenal to start dominating the league while teams like Chelsea and ManCity get relegated (exaggerated, yes but this is what some 'Arsenal faithfuls' want us to believe ).

debosky: This is utter rubbish - Arsenal has lost to lower league opposition in the past, even when they didn't think '4th is a trophy' - that is my point. Of course to 'this is what we are saying' adherents with no sense of perspective it's all the same thing.

Under Arsene Wenger, tuesday's loss to Bradford City was only the second time we have lost to lower league opposition. The first time was against Burnley and Burnley was a Championship side. In that game we played a very young team. So yes, it's odd.

debosky: There is a difference - one (yours) is a slavish continuation of the in vogue 'everything is wrong at Arsenal' singsong, while my comment is looking over a longer time frame - extending beyond Wenger/Gazidis/Kroenke and the 'current set up' at Arsenal.

People who claim we want 'our Arsenal back' are not looking over the entire history of the club but are only looking at the past 7 years, or looking only to , or picking only on successful periods and ignoring the barren, awful periods that also exist in the club's history.

Over the entire history of the club, asides from the 60s, Arsenal has never failed to win a trophy over 8 years. BTW, when people say 'We want our Arsenal back', our claim is based on what we believe the team can achieve even with our challenges. If we go on to buy players in January, what stopped us from buying/loaning during last summer despite the obvious deficiencies in the team?

Two seasons ago, my opinion was that we should have made a statement with the Nasri and Fab cases and we should have forced at least one or both to stay one more season. I even said that if we didn't send the right message, we would continue to lose players players in the same manner. I remember debosky asking me if I could read into the minds of the players to know what they would do. Since then, we've lost Song and RVP in similar fashion. Walcott MAY follow. Let's continue to do Father Christmas.

Minus all of the above including the loss to Bradford, the fact is there are a lot of things wrong at Arsenal and those things need to be fixed. The Bradford loss is only one of the nails used in nailing the coffin. Its seeing our best players since Vieira sold off every season. Its watching the manager turn blind eyes to players who should not even be playing for our reserves. Its seeing AW rely on 'perpetually' injured players season in season out. We want our Arsenal back!

I read dudu's post talking about how it's a good thing we "... replaced departing players in the transfer market and not through the youth program". This is the same dudu who was creaming some seasons back how Arsenal youth team would dominate the EPL in years to come. He also mentioned how we are the only EPL club in all competitions as if this would be the first time and as if we haven't seen Arsenal crash out of three competitions in one week. Well, we are out of one now. Good thing is there's no way we would face Bradford in the Champ's lge (copyright BBC).

Fact is, we have got it wrong somewhere and we need to fix it quick. Arsenal FC is far better than what AW and his boys have delivered so far even with the money challenges. Its no excuse. Our excuse used to be young players. Now its money. I wonder what it would be in two years to come.

For those who think Arsenal is all about Arsene Wenger

Arsène Wenger has presided over a golden era for Arsenal but it's fair to say that George Graham laid the foundations for the Club's modern-day success.

A hero of the Double-winning side of 1970/71, Graham returned to Highbury in May 1986 after a successful start to his managerial career at Millwall. Arsenal were treading water in the mid 80s - they had not won the title since Graham himself paraded the trophy 15 years earlier - and needed someone to shake things up.

Graham was that man. He revitalised the Club, bringing through a talented generation of young players such as David Rocastle, Michael Thomas and Tony Adams and supplementing them with a raft of astute signings including Lee Dixon, Nigel Winterburn and Steve Bould. That trio, along with Adams, became the Back Four, the bedrock on which Graham's success was built.

The Scot had been known as 'Stroller' during his playing days, a nickname which reflected his laid-back approach in the middle of the park. But if Arsenal's players expected a relaxed, easy-going new boss in 1986, they were hugely mistaken. Graham was an uncompromising manager and instilled discipline and a strong work ethic from day one.

His methods were rewarded with a fourth-place finish in Graham's first season and, more importantly, the Club's first piece of silverware for eight years. Charlie Nicholas was the hero at Wembley with two goals as Arsenal came from behind to beat Liverpool in the Littlewoods Cup Final but this was the triumph of a cohesive team unit - and more was to come.

The title returned to Highbury for the first time since 1971 when Michael Thomas struck in stoppage time at Anfield on May 26, 1989. It is a game and a date etched in the memory of every Arsenal fan and Graham was the architect of that famous victory. Liverpool were technically superior to Arsenal but Graham won the tactical battle and, with it, the biggest prize in English football.

Graham's ability to foster a siege mentality within the dressing room also helped. Arsenal were docked two points during the 1990/91 campaign following a brawl with Manchester United players at Old Trafford but they took that blow on the chin and went on to win the title by seven points, losing just one game while conceding only 18 goals.

That final statistic owed so much to the famous Back Four and new goalkeeper David Seaman, who Graham insisted on signing in the summer of 1990 despite the fact that John Lukic was a favourite among the Highbury faithful. "I still think John Lukic is one of the best keepers in the country; I just think David Seaman is the best," said Graham. He was proved right.

The inspired signings continued. Ian Wright's arrival early in the 1991/92 gave Arsenal a steady supply of goals and he went on to break the Club's scoring record. However, Wright's arrival was soon followed by a change of tactics. Perhaps influenced by a European Cup defeat to Benfica, Graham swapped the flair of Rocastle and Anders Limpar for a more workmanlike midfield.

That made Arsenal even harder to break down but they lost some flair going forward so, despite having won the title so comfortably in 1991, the championship eluded Arsenal for the remainder of Graham's reigns. Instead, with Wright always capable of grabbing a goal and the Back Four bordering on inpenetrable, Arsenal started to dominate the Cup competitions.

They became the first club to win the FA Cup and League Cup in the same season when Andy Linighan and Steve Morrow emerged as unlikely heroes in 1993. The Cup Winners' Cup followed in 1994 - Arsenal's first European trophy for 24 years - after a stubborn rearguard action against Parma in Copenhagen. 'One-nil to the Arsenal' was born.

Within a year Graham had gone but he had brought the good times back to Highbury and left plenty for his successors to build on, not least that rock-solid defence. These days the fans are well aware that 'Arsène Knows'. But 'George Knows' came first.

WE WANT OUR ARSENAL BACK!

Why didn't we just play the reserve team? At least we for get the usual excuse of 'we didn't play our first team'.

Just when we thought we couldn't sink further...

Me sef I don dey wonder about the conspiracy truly. Add to the fact that last season, after beating ManCity, we were 1-1 with ManUnited and playing with confidence and then suddenly, Arsene Wenger takes out the player who assisted our equalizing goal and replaced him with a player who up till then was having a horrible season. We all know the result.

I can't wait for AW's book in a few years to come

Dive or no dive?

https://i.imgur.com/rAaWx.jpg

debosky: Arshavin played 45 minutes - what did he do? He had two clear chances to score and only hit the target once. Other times he was woeful in possession and didn't make right decisions. You can love Arshavin all you want, but he is not producing end-product consistently enough.

debo!!! How many games has he played this season? How many assists and goals does he have to his name? Can you compare with the person(s) keeping him on the bench this season i.e. Gervinho and Chamberlain? Gervinho has been so poor this season, we all know its Arsene's stubborn nature that has kept him in the team. Arshavin this season is way ahead of Gervinho and only AW (and maybe debo) knows why we still keep him on the bench. On current form, Ild play him ahead of Gervinho and Chamberlain.

As for Chamack, the less I say, the better. I see they have not cast out the 'short, one touch pass' spirit disturbing him. Even when he has the whole pitch in front of him, his first instinct is to pass the ball .. smh

BTW, does anyone know why Rosicky was substituted at half time yesterday? Hopefully its not another injury?

Seriously, wetin Arshavin do Wenger?

Glad to see Meade finally starting a game for Arsenal's first team. Considering Santos' recent form, Gibbs needs a proper back up. From what Ive seen of Meade, he seems capable. The only challenge I have is with his height. Let's hope he's not overwhelmed today.

Rosicky welcome back.

Chamack...please score at least a goal tonight.

We should also look at the positives (I know Im beginning to sound like debosky)

We are in the last 16 of the champ's league....again
We are in the quarters of the League Cup and may get to the finals or win depending on the draws
We are not far away from our target i.e. 4th position

Im sure that after winning three or four matches on the trot, we all will forget the crazy November/December1

Looking ahead, we've played 15 matches therefore we have 23 to go i.e. 69points

If we win 20 matches i.e. 60points, plus our current 21 points, will give us 81pts. We can still win the league!!

Seriously, we need to fight for every of the remaining 69pts to finish in the top four and for AW to laugh at us all and say 'I told you the team has got great spirit'.

BTW, I remember I said earlier in the season I had a dream that we performed so badly and AW was fired...I mentioned it here though I didn't take it serious..abeg, if you can fast, please fast. AW must NOT be fired!

^^^ boys (and girls) are not smiling!

debosky: I have the equivalent of 50 years experience from FM and FIFA games.

Now I see where your all your analyses come from.

Trust dayokanu to make things clearer

mystikal: was he livid?

AW livid after a game? That will be the day. There is one thing certain about Arsene Wenger's post game speech: He will use the word 'spirit'.

I guess many of us didn't see/hear AW's interview after the Aston Villa game

debosky: I only watched the last 15 minutes or so, and it wasn't pretty. . . .very poor performance and individual defensive errors yet again.

Terrible run of results - with the way things are going we'll need to play a youth team in the CL just to ensure the likes of Santi, Arteta and Wilshere get a good rest.

Over to you Arsene. . . .it's your job to turn this around and if you can't, some serious questions will need to be raised.

How dare you question AW? He has about 30 years experience as a manager and you still question him?

coogar: it's a freak loss......
arsenal are miles better than swansea - i mean, would you say united losing to norwich and tottenham are not freak defeats? arsenal were very poor today and the loss was deserved but if arsenal play to the best of their level, they would beat swansea! i am not saying arsenal are perfect or barcelonaesque but it's not yet panic stations!

Arsenal miles better than Swansea? Are u winding me up or something? And you compare United's loss to Norwich and Tottenham to Arsenal's performance this season? Who's top of the table now and where's Norwich compared to United today? From what we've played so far this season can you bet on Arsenal winning or even drawing a game next week?

If we don nothing to improve this team in January and we still finish fourth, the premiership must be a really poor league

coogar, Im not on 4ller's side but this isn't a freak loss. If anything, we've been lucky in some of the games we've drawn earlier on in the season.