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I thought the OT is nailed aπϑ forgotten ? What do christians search for in books that doesn't make any meaning τ̲̅ȍ christian doctrines or teachings ? According to some ...I hear its btw christ aπϑ the church aπϑ yet pastors aπϑ NT preachers seldom, if am not mistaken avoid teaching from it .

Jesus(yeshu) was a simple jewish lad who was Torah observant aπϑ believed he could revive or radicalize judaism into a more vibrant religion in his time but failed at it . He wasn't the messiah the jews we're expecting . But its a good thing he inspired the gentiles τ̲̅ȍ some truths of the Torah aπϑ come τ̲̅ȍ knowledge of Hashem .

Just for ur thoughts ...." When Abraham sent away hagar aπϑ her son Ishmael in the desert wen he was at the point of death ,the young lad prayd to G-d in his condition for G-d to save him . In heaven, the hosts of Heaven asked G-d not to hear his prayers because the seed of the young lad will be wicked throughout their generation . But G-d ignored them and responded to the young lad

Gen 21:17 -"And God heard the voice of the lad; and the angel of God called to Hagar out of heaven, and said unto her, What aileth thee, Hagar? fear not; for God hath heard the voice of the lad where he is ."

... because of the situation he saw the young lad aπϑ because he cried unto HIM . He refused to listen to the debates of the Heavenly hosts .
Never mind where I got the story from .

Yes ...am sure that our Creator wants us to depend on HIM for everything . Be it new clothes,shelter ...everything ! And at thesame time HE also wants us to grow independently, the way a parent would allow his child take his or her own decision and the parent supports the child so HE is also to us . Even if HE knows our deepest thought,needs,fears and cahllenges, HE still expects us to reach out to HIM . Imagine a billionaire who has provided everything for his child so the child won't ever ask the father for anyting ....hmmmm....the father might think that is love , but he has practically spoilt the child aπϑ most times such children end. very irresponsible .
So,You must pray for everything. Even if your garment is torn and you need another, you should pray to God to give you something to wear.

Do this for everything: make it a habit to pray for all your needs, great or small. Your main prayers should be for fundamentals: that God should help you to serve Him and draw closer. Even so, you should also pray for minor things.

God may give you food and clothing and everything else you need in life even without your asking for them. However, you are then like an animal. God provides all living creatures with their food. But if you do not draw your needs through prayer, your livelihood is like that of an animal. A man must draw his vitality and all his needs from God only through prayer.

Is it beneath your dignity to pray even for something minor? You must pray for everything, even the most minor things. Thank you aπϑ shalom <3

People will believe what they want to believe for their own personal comfort level, not what they NEED TO UNDERSTAND AND WALK OUT. The truth of YHVH is out there for those who want it. It is repent and return to YHVH -the GOD OF ABRAHAM, ISSAC AND JACOB and HE WILL RETURN TO YOU. The Old Testament - as some call it - Is the truth of YHVH. It is also where He told us everything we need to know - including how to take care of fecal matter when camping outside. IF He can go to those lengths to explain how to handle that kind of matter - He has explained in His words how to handle all of these issues in His Tanakh. Seek Yehovah and His truth. You will find HIM when you search for Him with your whole heart and soul. Until then you are just discussing opinions, theologies and other religious practices. The confusion comes when you mix other religious practices, ideas, understandings and theologies with the TRUTH OF YHVH.
Sat · Edited · Public

OLAADEGBU: Give the devil a ride and he will want to be the driver.

Good quote ...now since we know that why give him the steering or even a ride ? ...we just have to be the ones driving , cos we will give account of our deeds .

shdemidemi: If you don't accept the entire bible as the word of God, it will be difficult to have a meaningful discussion.

I will check the quotes and revert back.

I accept the Hebrew scriptures ( OT ) for the NT I don't want to sound rude or spiteful for I respect evryones religion...but I have to really scrutinize it aπϑ I see it was written for the purpose of convincing one . Its really not in harmony with the Torah aπϑ tanak . Let me

shdemidemi: On the contrary, Paul's message was not only scrutinised by the people, it was also approved by Peter and backed by God through countless miracles.

You say miracles ? ...I believe even jsus said miracles isn't a yadstick to decipher truth ! Cos even false prophets , pharoahs prophets performed wonders ! ...are you thrilled by signs aπϑ wonders ?

shdemidemi: Paul is the harbinger of a gospel Jesus constantly thought, though in parables. I believe Paul's apostleship is true, he saw Christ, and he preached a message that puts the entire scripture intricately linked.

Pick any parable of Jesus and you will find the message of Paul, the message of grace and most importantly the message of God init.

Paul interpreted the Old Testament from the eye of the new. All the stories that was put together by God's providence in the old were expanded by Paul in the new.

Paul never started his own thing but pointed all back to the significance of the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ.

My brother , I see you are a very intelligent fellow aπϑ must have been through the univrsty walls ? ...make an objective comparism, analyze those little verses I gave to you . When you wrote ur project I beliv you quoted ur references proprly ?... Please . We have been on this topic since ‎​Mornin .

The scriptures aя̩̥̊ε̲̣̣̣̥ meant to be reasoned upon ..not just accepted blindly ! Reason not blind faith ! Rabbis debate scriptures aπϑ Torah to prove its authenticity ! Even the writings of the prophets, the talmud, (oral laws ) it takes years of study . There are too many things G-d revealed τ̲̅ȍ the Jews that you cannot comprehend my achi ( brother ) .

Paul aπϑ other NT writers delibrately removed a lot of vital clauses from Torah aπϑ tanahk aπϑ still expects to gain a following among the Jewish ppl - I guess that's probably why he is been regarded as an trail blazer in the Christian theology aπϑ among gentiles who have a poor knowledge of the Hebrew scriptures . The masses we're vulnerable aπϑ consumed evrything that he wrote without scrutiny .

shdemidemi: Are you also saying Paul's letters aren't scriptures?

I thought Jesus gave him the message to teach directly. now whose message carries more weight Jesus/God's message delivered by Paul to the body of Christ or God's message to Moses for the nation of Israel?

The NT is scriptures for you but not me ...! Paul never met jsus in perSon neither did jsus . Paul never quoted jsus, but rather from the hebrew scriputes !

Compare those little verses I showed you pls

Please make a very good observation of those scriptures I refferd to you . When you do then say ur observations please . If you have ur bible there please do ...the ones you gave me I took my time to study them before I replyd you . Instead of we debating and debatig

shdemidemi: Isaiah was speaking of things that is to come, with an eye to the Mediator, who is made of God to us both righteousness and sanctification. Like I said earlier, salvation is the spiritual and eternal deliverance granted by God.

A mediator ? ...things to come ? Wow ! Am impressed !
Can you check out this verses - micah 6:6
Deut 32:39
Hosea 14:2-3
Ps 40:7,51:7,69:30-33,78:22-39,86:5-6
Jer 36:3, 26:13,
Eze 18:21-30, 33:-,
Zech 1:3
Jonah 3:10
Lev 5:16
1 sam 15:22
I give you scriptures note theology or ur ideas ...counter G-d's word . Counter the scriptures please ..!

The NT takes most of its relevance from the hebrew scriptures citing quotations that even the writers of the NT either are not familiar with the concept ot either want to mislead or replace G-d's word . G-d spoke in the OT aπϑ was quoted directly ! Which wasn't so in ur NT ! Pls if you have the time compare this OT/NT verses to see for urself :
Heb 8:9 - jer 31:32
2cor 3: - exo 34:29-35
Rom 9:33/2pet 2:8 - Isa 28:16
Rom 10:6-8 - deut 30:11-14 ( this I dunno why they exempted out 11-14 )
Matt 2:6 - micah 5:2
Matt 12:21 - Isa 59:20-21
My dear friend they are just too numerous I don't want to keep goin on aπϑ on !

Paul has added a lot to ur christian NT ! Mind you , the scriptures had already been 250yrs before Jsus came aπϑ he also read from the book of isaiah.
You follow paul's hellenized ideas !

G-d's word is simple , no theology needed , no theories aπϑ so sincere .

ישעיהו- Isaiah is composed of ישע which is salvation and the name of God, meaning- Salvation is from God.
Yirmiayahu ירמיהו- from the root רמה, to lift, meaning God will be exalted, or God will lift me up.

I believe ur NT salvation means saved from hell, satan and original sin concept ?

shdemidemi: Did you read the verses I quoted?

Salvation as used here is the spiritual and eternal deliverance granted by God to those who accept His condition of repentance and faith in Jesus.

Your definition of salvation is a temporal deliverance from danger. That isn't the salvation my quote is speaking about



Do you now agree Peter was instructed to go to a non-Jew who was anathema by the law?

Enlighten me please ...what kind of salvation is the NT offering ?

“Turn to me and be saved, all you ends of the earth; for I am God, and there is no other." - Isaiah 45:22

shdemidemi: Yes, it was a trance that had an interpretation and a clear meaning.
Acts 10
17 Peter was very perplexed. What could the vision mean? Just then the men sent by Cornelius found Simon’s house. Standing outside the gate, 18 they asked if a man named Simon Peter was staying there.

19 Meanwhile, as Peter was puzzling over the vision, the Holy Spirit said to him, “Three men have come looking for you. 20 Get up, go downstairs, and go with them without hesitation. Don’t worry, for I have sent them.”

The same God who gave the law made Peter eat what wasn't kosher in a trance. Immediately after the vision, he was sent to a non-Jew where he was never allowed to go under the law.

There was a change in programme- salvation was made available to non-Jews because the nation of Israel rejected the gift of Christ.
Romans 11
Did God’s people stumble and fall beyond recovery? Of course not! They were disobedient, so God made salvation available to the Gentiles. But he wanted his own people to become jealous and claim it for themselves. 12 Now if the Gentiles were enriched because the people of Israel turned down God’s offer of salvation, think how much greater a blessing the world will share when they finally accept it.

Salvation again ? ....salvation ( to be saved also as So-zo ) means to be protected,safe, to be whole with G-d . Witout HIM we are not complete . Salvation has been from the begining - all you need do is ask ! If you are gentile all you need do is believe there is One G-d,love HIM and harmonize ur ways with HIS .
There has been no change in programm .
And as for Israel is not blind to G-d's salvation rather ...." On this mountain he will destroy
    the shroud that enfolds all peoples,
the sheet that covers all nations; - isa 25:7

Deut 30:4-
4 Even if you have been banished to the most distant land under the heavens, from there the Lord your God will gather you and bring you back. 5 He will bring you to the land that belonged to your ancestors, and you will take possession of it. He will make you more prosperous and numerous than your ancestors. 6 The Lord your God will circumcise your hearts and the hearts of your descendants, so that you may love him with all your heart and with all your soul, and live. 7 The Lord your God will put all these curses on your enemies who hate and persecute you. 8 You will again obey the Lord and follow all his commands I am giving you today. 9 Then the Lord your God will make you most prosperous in all the work of your hands and in the fruit of your womb, the young of your livestock and the crops of your land. The Lord will again delight in you and make you prosperous, just as he delighted in your ancestors, 10 if you obey the Lord your God and keep his commands and decrees that are written in this Book of the Law and turn to the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul.
11 Now what I am commanding you today is not too difficult for you or beyond your reach. 12 It is not up in heaven, so that you have to ask, “Who will ascend into heaven to get it and proclaim it to us so we may obey it?” 13 Nor is it beyond the sea, so that you have to ask, “Who will cross the sea to get it and proclaim it to us so we may obey it?” 14 No, the word is very near you; it is in your mouth and in your heart so you may obey it.
15 See, I set before you today life and prosperity, death and destruction. 16 For I command you today to love the Lord your God, to walk in obedience to him, and to keep his commands, decrees and laws; then you will live and increase, and the Lord your God will bless you in the land you are entering to possess.

17 But if your heart turns away and you are not obedient, and if you are drawn away to bow down to other gods and worship them, 18 I declare to you this day that you will certainly be destroyed. You will not live long in the land you are crossing the Jordan to enter and possess.

19 This day I call the heavens and the earth as witnesses against you that I have set before you life and death, blessings and curses. Now choose life, so that you and your children may live 20 and that you may love the Lord your God, listen to his voice, and hold fast to him. For the Lord is your life, and he will give you many years in the land he swore to give to your fathers, Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.

G-d is not a man that he should lie or change !

Gen 4:6 " - Then the Lord said to Cain, “Why are you angry? Why is your face downcast? 7 If you do what is right, will you not be accepted? But if you do not do what is right, sin is crouching at your door; it desires to have you, but you must rule over it.”

shdemidemi: No no.. There was no mention of anyone in or out of idolatry. There was only a mention of Peter sent to a place he would never had gone left to the interpretation of the law.

God made Peter eat the forbidden animal/beast (forbidden, according to the law). Peter hesitated at first but succumb to God's command afterwards. Whether cornelius worshipped an Idol or no idol was never the issue. Do you get it?

Honestly , I don't get it ...G-d did not make peter eat anything and that encounter was a dream ... aπϑ why would G-d contradict himself ?

[quote author=shdemidemi]What idolatrous practice was cornelius known for? he was said to be a man who feared God even as a non-Jew. Peter did not make the statement because he thought he was an idolater but because he is not a Jew. Do you agree?[/. A non Jew who has come out of idolatry is considered righteous . Peter did not know him that was why he must have given reasons why he shouldn't be at his place .

shdemidemi: Please answer my question, do you agree with what Peter said in Acts 10 about the relationship between a Jew and a non-Jew according to the law?

...do you know Peter was speaking from the oral-law ? Most Gentiles had a very poor concept of the Holy One of Israel and yes I agree with him . He can only associate with a non-Jew if he has shown that he has dissociated himself from idolatry . Also take note of acts 10:35

In due time the nations will come to realize that their fathers had inherited lies ....! There is none like Hashem ! And His truth is one ! His unity is one ! And there is none besides HIM ! ....read 1 kings 22:19-23 ....G-d is using the the two religions to spread HIS name ....but for Truth search the scriptures ( Hebrew scriptures ) not Greek or roman or hellenized theology .

shdemidemi: Well, my question was to show you the distinction and disparity between the circumcised Jews and the uncircumcised nations. This was what Peter said about an uncircumcised gentile-

Acts 10
Peter told them, “You know it is against our laws for a Jewish man to enter a Gentile home like this or to associate with you.

Do you agree with him that association with Gentiles was anathema to an average Jew according to the law?

Who were the Gentiles of such a time ? The Romans who had their own gods nd religious system or the Greeks just to mention a few ! Is it not the Gentiles who destroyed the temple ? No it isn't ! It is only when the gentile is steeped in Idolatory and can't differentiate when he is involved in it and is not willing to come out of it ( Mishneh Torah - 9:2) and to make matters worse most are just to blind to admit to Idolatory , blasphemes G-d's name, discredits the truth of the Torah

shdemidemi: My brother, you quoted a prediction and a forecast concerning Gentiles.

What do you know about proselytes?

My question was not regarding proselytes but the uncircumcised who did not adopt the Jewish tradition or customs.

i don't get it ... How can you accept G-d without accepting the truth of His Chosen ones and part of their traditions or customs ? The two major faiths built most of their beliefs from Torah which the Jews have over time accepted as what differentiates them from the rest of the nations . And to come think of it ...they both profess the truth of the Torah but go along the way and claim that it's been relegated to the background ! Because G-d has divorced the children of Israel for Gentile nations ! Which I still don't know where and how ? ( both Islam and Christianity )

shdemidemi: If the message was for a chosen people like you have rightly said, does it apply to the uncircumcised Greek/gentile who are not From the loins of Abraham?

To the gentiles :
Zeph 2:3 Seek the Lord, all you humble of the land,
    you who do what he commands.
Seek righteousness, seek humility;


    perhaps you will be sheltered
    on the day of the Lord’s anger.

Isaiah 56:6-7 And foreigners who bind themselves to the Lord
    to minister to him,
to love the name of the Lord,
    and to be his servants,
all who keep the Sabbath without desecrating it
    and who hold fast to my covenant—
7 these I will bring to my holy mountain
    and give them joy in my house of prayer.
Their burnt offerings and sacrifices
    will be accepted on my altar;
for my house will be called
    a house of prayer for all nations.”

1 kings 8:41-43 41 “As for the foreigner who does not belong to your people Israel but has come from a distant land because of your name— 42 for they will hear of your great name and your mighty hand and your outstretched arm—when they come and pray toward this temple, 43 then hear from heaven, your dwelling place. Do whatever the foreigner asks of you, so that all the peoples of the earth may know your name and fear you, as do your own people Israel, and may know that this house I have built bears your Name.

shdemidemi: Ok, to whom exactly was this message written- the church, the entire world, or to the nation of Israel?

Beautiful question ....! It was τ̲̅ȍ israel ! Israel is G-d's servant, G-d's elect, G-d's avenue to b a light to the world aπϑ nations . Don't Ў☺y forget also " salvation is of the jews " .
If the church can't deal with what was revealed τ̲̅ȍ the jews then I suggest they do away with the part of the scriptures they refer τ̲̅ȍ as OT aπϑ concentrate on their NT ...cos its obvious they can't deal with the truth aπϑ unity of G-d's message .

And again the most of the christians testament negates the Torah aπϑ the writings of the prophets .
For instance the G-d of the Hebrew scriptures has aπϑ will never be ashamed, timid ,fearful,secretive to state who HE is ! He always reiterates to us that HE is in charge ...
" And God spake unto moses, aπϑ said unt him . I am the LORD - exo 6:2

" I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour "- isa 43:11

" I am the LORD,your Holy One, the creator of Israel, your king " - isa 43:15

"I am the LORD: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images "- isa 42:8

And many more ( isa 44:24,45:5,43:3, exo 14:18,15:26,12:12 )
You see Hashem is always definite in defining who HE is unlike someone who was more like evasive,confusing,not sure of who who was,not even tryin to speak about it ,G-d isn't fearful of who HE is ....

John 10:24-36,
Matt 22:29-32
Mrk 12:24-27
" aπϑ jesus said unto them , I am the bread of life: he that cometh τ̲̅ȍ ♍Ƹ̴ shall never hunger...." Jhn6:35

" I am the door: by ♍Ƹ̴ if any man enter in, he shall be saved ..." Jhn 10:9

"As long as I am in the world, I am the light of the world " jhn 9:5

" I am the true vine, aπϑ my Father is the husbandman " jhn 15:1

aπϑ many more things he believes he is but doesn't ever say he is HASHEM !

Truth hurts that I know ...but Ў☺y see we can believe anything even will ourselves τ̲̅ȍ have faith - but Ў☺y can't will urself τ̲̅ȍ have knowledge ! Knowledge demands an investigation into the nature of reality with an open mind to search for truth .

For now G-d's laws aπϑ covenant still stands and hasn't been done away with ! The coming new covenant will be written in our hearts more like instictively we will know the laws instead of learning them , no one will teach the other or even our children cos we all shall already know ...of note also there is no mention of any blood sacrifice from anyone !
Jer 31:33 - “This is the covenant I will make with the people of Israel
    after that time,” declares the Lord.
“I will put my law in their minds
    and write it on their hearts.
I will be their God,
    and they will be my people."
Compare it to to the deut 11:18-20 -
"18 Fix these words of mine in your hearts and minds; tie them as symbols on your hands and bind them on your foreheads. 19 Teach them to your children, talking about them when you sit at home and when you walk along the road, when you lie down and when you get up. 20 Write them on the doorframes of your houses and on your gates,"
Also psalms 89:27-37
And I will appoint him to be my firstborn,
    the most exalted of the kings of the earth.
28 I will maintain my love to him forever,
    and my covenant with him will never fail.
29 I will establish his line forever,
    his throne as long as the heavens endure.
30 “If his sons forsake my law
    and do not follow my statutes,
31 if they violate my decrees
    and fail to keep my commands,
32 I will punish their sin with the rod,
    their iniquity with flogging;
33 but I will not take my love from him,
    nor will I ever betray my faithfulness.
34 I will not violate my covenant
    or alter what my lips have uttered.
35 Once for all, I have sworn by my holiness—
    and I will not lie to David—
36 that his line will continue forever
    and his throne endure before me like the sun;
37 it will be established forever like the moon,
    the faithful witness in the sky.”
So please , the Torah has not been made void by anyone .

The devil ? ...I laugh in chapters....!! Let's not decieve ourselves " for we shall be judged according to our words aπϑ deeds " not according to what the devil made us do !

Keeping Grudge could be as a result of deep hurt and offence someone did against us intentionally or without knowing . It diminishes our joy aπϑ inhibits our relationship with others . We keep grudge because we choose not to overlook ,ignore the wrong the other person did against us . Letting go frees us . G-d commands, "You shall not hate your brother in your heart..." (Lev. 19:17)

To understand this crucial idea, let's look at the commandments which immediately follow it:

You shall rebuke your fellow
You shall not bear a sin because of him
You shall not take revenge
You shall not bear a grudge
You shall love your fellow as yourself.

Whom do we rebuke?
- The fellow who is doing wrong YET IS WISE ENOUGH to accept rebuke. We do not rebuke scoffers (Proverbs 9:.

How do we rebuke?
- Privately! We must not humiliate our fellows. ( "this is the meaning of "You shall not bear a sin because of him."
- Gently! Or the rebuke will not be heard.

What is revenge?
- Reuben asks Simon if he can borrow a hatchet. Simon says, "No."
- The next day Simon asks Reuben if he can borrow a sickle. Reuben says, "No, because you would not lend to me."

What is a grudge?
- Reuben asks Simon if he can borrow a hatchet. Simon says, "No."
- The next day Simon asks Reuben if he can borrow a sickle. Reuben says, "Yes, because I am not like you."

How do I love my fellow as myself?
- this is the fundamental rule of the G-d's word
- If we were unknowingly doing wrong, we'd want to be told, yet it is so hard for any of us to hear criticism.
- Great indeed is the person who can give rebuke so gentle that another person will hear it.

Don't mean to dampen ur excitment for a new job and yes you have to give all thanks to GD....but you see If God answers your prayers when you called on HIM is that He is just a loving God who is being patient with you as you grow in understanding about who He is and will not let your needs go unmet in the meantime?

I submit to you that He provided for the needs of pagans throughout human history who called on the names of false gods in their ignorance and answered their prayers anyway, because He is a loving God, NOT because those other gods exist or that His answer to prayer in the name of a false god made the existence of the false god valid.
And because He answers your prayers while you have the image of a created thing (Jesus, a human male) in your mind when you think of and pray to Him, does that mean that this understanding becomes reality?

Of course not.

It just means that He is more understanding of and patient with you than you are knowledgeable of and obedient to Him.

His answering is about fulfilling your needs because He is good, He is your Creator, and He is your Provider, not because you are right about who He is. My opinion pls .

Satan actually also means the adversary in Hebrew ( ha-satan ) . Satan was designed to be a tester an adversary. Yet he answers to G-d and he has boundaries he cannot go beyong. See the way he answers to G-d in the book of Job and Gd gives him the rules he must abide by when he tests Job. We see something similar in the book of Zechariah when Satan accuses Joshua and Gd rebukes Satan. Satan is not a force that acts outside of Gd as many teach he has his job just like Gds other creations. It is Gd that creates light and dark good and evil Isaiah 45.
Gd is the one that sent an evil spirit to torment Saul. There is no force that can challenge Gd. Satan is not running around stealing people's freedoms. This completely goes against scripture. Gd gave us freedom to choose life or death, life being obedience to Gd and death being disobedience to Gd. People battle themselves to do Gds will or their own. People have created this idea of Satan making them do things or causing problems for them to avoid the responsibility of their own choices. There are plenty of examples of people living in obedience to Gd in Tanakh ( writings of the prophets or scripture ) . In Deuteronomy 30 Gd clearly says what he sets before us is not too hard to do.Genesis 4 Gd clearly says we can rule over sin. It is so much easier for a person to excuse sinning against Gd if they create some powerful outside force that is causing them to sin. We choose to obey Gd or not.
Wer Christianity teaches that Satan is a separate force, power, or entity that is a rival of God who disobeys God and is set against Him, Which isn't true !

The word satan is not a proper noun, nor a separate force, power or entity. Sometimes, it’s an obedient angel of God who obeys every word and direction of God. Sometimes, the word satan is used to describe an evil desire of ours, or as a descriptive word for a human who is about to oppose someone.
Lastly, the satan is a word used to describe an evil inclination/obstacle/opponent used to teach us something about ourselves. It is there to strengthen us and give us an opportunity to grow and build virtue.

Numbers 22:22 – 32
1 Sam. 29:4
2 Sam. 19:22
1 Kings 5:4; 11:14, 23, 25
1 Chron. 21:1
Job
Zech. 3:2
Ps. 38:20; 71:13; 109:4, 6, 20, 29
Lucifer is not satan ! Isaiah 14 talks of lucifer in a parable form of a prince in babylon !