₦airaland Forum

benalvino2:
Lmao all scientist huh? According to them they are still seeing light from the big bang from some billions of light years away and that's as far as they can see...

Am asking now
When the explosion occurred, what was the speed of light?
Did the galaxy expand trillions of times faster than the speed of light for light from the initial big bang reaching the earth by now?

I think you are missing my point - scientist account about the Big Bang and the Genesis account in Genesis 1:1 are very similar. So, even putting God in the equation - scientist admit that our universe does have a beginning

An example - Albert Einstein was a scientist who though our universe never had a beginning, he thought it existed eternally. It wasn't until Hubble showed Einstein that our universe is constantly expanding that Einstein realized that our universe did indeed had a beginning and never existed eternally.

I hope that clear up things for you.

benalvino2:
Its funny how the matter or atom that gave birth to the universe is smaller than my hand yet the earth alone is big,
Out of nothing an explosion bam then the universe was born.

We don't need the Bible or God to prove that our universe had a beginning. A beginning that all scientist have agreed to currently. Science has proven time and time again - you can't get nothing from nothing; so our Atheist brothers have to explain to us how we got our universe.

The Big Bang didn't come out of nothing - something caused it to happen.

asala1

Same Christianity that puts Galileo in house arrest because he said that the earth is not in the center of the Universe? My simple question which you tried dodging is "If God created the world. who created this God?

Get your facts straight, Christianity never put Galileo under house arrest, the Catholics did. Also, the Bible never claimed that the earth was the center of our universe. Please stop stretching the facts as you are mis-representing them

Bible? The same bible that said your ancestors are some Hebrew people (Adam and Eve). Guy, travel around the world and see that the bible creation story is just one out of the thousands of creation stories. Tell a man from China, Japan or an Indian that they are from Adam and Even, they will just laugh at you and think you are a mad man.

So the creation story of the universe as described in the Bible is irrelevant? Care of offer your version of how we got here?

Have you thought of this: Why will God create everyone in the world and loves one tribe over another? Do you know that according to the stories in the bible, If the Israelites were passing through Nigeria during their exodus, they would have destroyed your country, kill your parents, brothers, rape your sisters and take your children as slaves.

You seem not to have read the Bible very well. Let me give you examples before you choose only one side. Israel has suffered more for idolatry than any nation in the world. God has dealt with them more than their enemies. God chose to use them to reveal the true God to the world but this privilege carried a great responsibility. So, let us read the accounts:

1. The 1st war the Israelite s fought was a direct assault from the Amalekites. There was a shorter way from Egypt to Canaan, but the Amalekites were there. So God took them through a hazardous wilderness to avoid any confrontation. But while they were resting at Rephidim, the Amalekites suddenly attacked - unprovoked, determined to destroy Israel. Read Exodus 17:8-18
2. Read Moses plea to the King of Edom to pass through his borders and the King refused- Numbers 20:14-20. This account seems to contradict what you said above.
3. Here is another one - Numbers 21:21-24. Israel asked Sihon king of the Amorites for safe passage but he refused and fought Israel.

From the above, I wonder how it tallies with your account. From history; it's either the historical records as described are wrong and you are right or it's right and you are wrong - which is it?

sufido123

Atheism is not a belief system as you stated. It is a state of unbelief. You dismiss Budha as God but get upset when someone else dismisses your own God. There is no evidence there is any God period.

Dude, Buddah is not a God. Buddahism doesn't claim Buddah is a god. If you mentioned Islam, or Judaism I will agree with you. Atheism is a belief system in the non-existence of God; you have to "believe" there is no God to be an Atheist.

You may claim that you believe there is God but mere belief is not evidence. Furthermore, belief is not a choice. It is either day or night. You cannot choose to believe that it is daytime at night. You would be deemed insane if you do won't you?

Evidence? Really? Before we proceed I want to you to be objective, if you are - I will engage. Belief is based on so many things one of which is evidence. Typical example - I believe your parents gave birth to you. I don't believe you are a product of two he goats. Now, we can easily prove whether my belief is true or false. We can take the same approach to prove God.

Empiree

slyfox5555, pls, if you have problems with CAIR, kindly telephone them, pen them or visit their head office in New York. They have recently moved from Riverside to Broadway couple of months ago. So direct your anger to them.

So, if I had a problem with Isis, I should call Isis HQ in Syria abi?

It doesn't make any sense to keep reverberating old event to draw your point. One does not need PhD to figure out you have problem with this organization.

You asked for evidence and whenever I provide them - you go mute. Pride will not allow you admit that CAIR is not all that it claims to be

Besides, I am not convinced you are not usermane. You can hide all you want.

You and username can go and jump in a pond. If that is not enough - go to the Brooklyn bridge and scream his name and tell him why you think he is misrepresenting himself on NL. I honestly don't care whether you are convinced or not.

Unbias:
Hmmmmm... I can't believe people could find it so hard to accept crystal clear facts. Slyfox5555 debated objectively with historical facts and evidences to corroborate his stand but he is still being accused of indicting CAIR falsely.

Just like CAIR, nairaland muslims do no want their creed to be neither challenged nor constructively criticized. Someone was dealing on the subject courteously and all a brother could say is 'just type I hate Islam.' Any correlation? You are unable to debunk facts or at least present weightier canter arguement and yet insisting UAE is unfair to have enlisted CAIR, Slyfox5555 has problem with CAIR, true2god hates Islam... Na wa ooo!

That is the narrative Muslims like Empiree uses when others disagree with him or have an alternate opinion on a specific subject. He asked for evidence and I provided it - he ignored it and said I should call CAIR? Why should I call them. They demonize and attack even MUSLIMS that disagree with them yet they claim they stand and represent all Muslims

Empiree:
Get your priority right. You may need to affirm nonsense he asserted up there from different sources.

slyfox5555 got his source(s) from sly fox5 555 and the likes. Go to CAIR directly. period

Dude - please sit down. When you can't discuss intelligently; you start the same smear tactics CAIR uses.

sufido123:
You are also an atheist but you are ignorant of this fact. There is a very good chance your doctrine is wrong and Budha is the real God. Then you would be considered an atheist and guess who would be deemed stupid? You

It seems to me that no meaningful distinction exists between getting the God wrong but believing in something and getting the God wrong but not believing in anything.

If you understand while you dismiss other people's God, then you would understand why atheists dismiss yours.

Atheism is a belief system as well is it not? Your belief is that there is no God. How is that different from religions who believe in the universe itself? Besides, Buddah wasn't and isn't a god.

onetrack:
And yes, I would claim that the existence of life is due to chance. Our bodies don't adapt well to many situations. We are easy prey for many diseases and animals. We are just another part of the food chain.

Really - are you saying the birth of a child is due by chance? What has diseases and being prey to animals have to do with the origin and evolution of life?

onetrack:
Don't conflate knowledge of the big bang with atheism. We don't understand everything about the big bang, but that doesn't mean that god did it. We thought the same thing about diseases 200 years ago.

Also I don't think that the human body is that well-constructed. We have plenty of flaws. We are simply the work of ongoing evolution.

Cosmological evolution is quite different from biological evolution i.e. how our universe was formed and how we evolved are two completely different areas. When people talk about biological evolution; it's quite important to be very precise or to define what you are referring to.

For example, by biological evolution are you referring to Darwinism i.e. life evolved from simple forms like an amoeba to complex forms say a human being? Is that what you are referring to?

Sorry for your loss.

Empiree:
The video clearly shows it's an experiment not hoax. The guys are known actors. They basically made video showing what and how authority profile.

Where are you getting at this ?

My point was that CAIR took the video and started to play the victim-hood campaign. They used it as a hate-campaign saying that is how cops treat Muslims which is not true.

Also, did you read the other articles I posted about how CAIR exaggerates and sometimes lie about the hate-crime agenda? Do you have any comments on those?

My point is this: CAIR uses this "hate-speech" theme to label critics as Islamphobes and demonize them. We are a free society, anyone including non-muslims should be able to criticize anything and anyone even if it touches on the sensibilities of a Muslim like myself.

1. Go and look up CAIR smearing and attack on another Muslim Zuhdi Jasser
2. CAIR called the conviction of Omar Abdel Rahman, the blind sheikh who planned to blow up New York City landmarks, a "hate crime". How does a man who intended to kill thousands of Americans and cause havoc to many Americans suddenly turn out to be a "hate-crime" when he is arrested and convicted?
3. CAIR denied Osama Bin Laden was behind 9/11, even though Bin Laden said so on camera. How can a group that advocates for Muslims make such statements. Osama bin laden killed thousands of Americans and CAIR somehow found out he didn't plan and carry out the 9/11 bombings?
4. CAIR demanded removal of a billboard in Los Angeles in 1998 that described Osama bin Laden as "the sworn enemy," saying that this description was "offensive to Muslims." [Osama had by this point released his Declaration of War on the United States.]
5. When Bill Maher said "Islam is like the Mafia - it will f**king kill you if you criticize it" on his TV show; CAIR called on UC Berkeley to cancel his appearance. We have constitutional protected speech in America and anyone can offer his opinion. Why should CAIR demonize a man for offering his opinion?
6. Brandeis University had planned to award an honorary degree to Ayaan Hirsi Ali at its commencement ceremony this year, but after a smear campaign led Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR) and other Islamic supremacist groups, on Tuesday the university issued a statement announcing the predictable result: the honorary degree would not be given. These are some of the things I am talking about

No doubt that CAIR stands up for rights of Muslims and it should whenever and wherever possible. However, it hides behind this to stifle free speech as well and that should never be encourage by any Muslim in and out of America

Empiree:
slyfox5555,
All videos are less than 2 mins to watch. Do these folk want to dialogue? These are just few. Freedom of speech ? Freedom to attack?

You said hate speech but you are describing crime. Notwithstanding - I will not endorse threat or violence to lives of anyone irrespective of their religious beliefs. If all or any of those videos are true then the perpetrators should be brought to justice and face the law. However, what you mentioned, wasn't what I was referring to:

Here are a few cases where Muslims cried wolf and called up "Hate Crime" but upon investigation, the authorities found out otherwise:

1. Montclair State University: Muslim charged over false claim that he was assaulted and called an "Islamic terrorist" = http://baristanet.com/2014/04/reported-assault-montclair-state-university-man-attacked-referred-anislamic-terrorist/

2. CAIR trumpets another “anti-Muslim hate crime” that was faked by a Muslim = http://www.danielpipes.org/2627/cairs-hate-crimes-nonsense

3. CAIR lies and exaggerates "hate crime" against Muslims = http://www.danielpipes.org/2627/cairs-hate-crimes-nonsense

4. Viral video showing NYPD cop profiling Muslims is a hoax intended to smear police and stymie counter-terror efforts =
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LRLkwkG5nPE. CAIR used this video as proof of Muslim victim-hood when the whole thing was a hoax.

I can give you so many examples. I am not denying that there are people out there that misunderstand Islam and see the violence committed in the name of Islam and as a result; they verbally and sometimes physically persecute Muslims. There are but the reports show that since 2001, the hate crime against Muslims is at it's lowest. CAIR on the other hand is stretching the story because victim-hood is good for business.

I will post some more links

Empiree

As far as am concern you are just fussing. CAIR doesn't go about trumping over people right to free speech. It condemns "hate speech", bias attacks etc. Pls get over it.

What is considered hate speech? If someone criticizes Islam; it is considered hate speech. Hate speech is another term to stifle free speech. So, if someone says something that offends CAIR; it then becomes "hate speech"? We live in a free society; we should encourage criticism, objection and opposition to our views.

CAIR considers asking the question - "Is Islam a religion of peace" as a hate speech. So, you see how loose-ended you sound; no different than the folks at CAIR. Left to your likes - no one should take about others using our religion to commit atrocities and kill others.

And comparing CAIR to KKK? You are very ridiculous. KKK is armed terror organization.

You said CAIR is a legal organization. My point is simple - so is the KKK. There are no laws which says the KKK is illegal.

Non-muslims dont need CAIR or debate anyone to understand islam. Islam is in the Qur'an.

The Quran is just a portion of Islam. What about the Hadiths? Do you know how many they are? There is the sunnah of the prophet. The lay person can't understand all these things without engaging someone that is knowledgeable about them

Talking about debate, don't we have enough of that?

Are you kidding me - when has there ever been a time when debate or open discussion was ever enough?

So far, your case is DOT (Dead On Typing)

Bros - it's useless trying to reason with you. You can go on supporting CAIR and their principles; you have the right to do so. Thanks for the discussion so far - I appreciate your input

Empiree:
Question remains: What exactly do you gain from indictment of CAIR?

I am not indicting anyone nor do I stand to gain anything and I don't want anything. CAIR stands as a socio-cultural groups that supposedly represents American Muslims. That group has had 5 of it's members charged with terrorism and has been indicted in funding Hamas. As a Muslim; I don't want such a group to act as if it represents me or it's advocating for my best interest. Just the same way, I wouldn't want to be associated with the KKK because of it's policies and action of some of it's members that killed blacks.

Non-muslims can only truly learn about Islam through history, dialog, debate and of course criticism. That is why we are here to tell them the truth and teach them about Islam and convince them through dialog but not through fear. CAIR doesn't take that approach

If it wants to encourage education on Islam, it should allow free speech, debate and criticism. However, CAIR stifles free speech, demonize those that critic Islam and smear them.

Empiree:
[s][/s]

Easy, bro. Why so upset?. If you are not him, then forget it.

Your writings have striking resemblance. And if you are him, who cares anyways.

Not upset; peeved! We started off discussing CAIR and you guys somehow turned it to name calling and ethnic categorization.

vedaxcool:
Lol at looking for a job with Bill O Reilly or Hannity, he really fits the profile, I don't even know his tribe, his kind cuts across board, I seriously doubt he is a muslim, he simply uses it as a cover to attack Islam so as to give his ignorant views legitimacy. Career liars like him can live in three places at the same time! like "logic"boy who is an education consultant who does his consulting only on nairaland buhahaha

Attack Islam? - you sound no different than the folks at CAIR. Whenever others have different opinions; they are given names or demonized. Another idio.t telling me I am not a Muslim. It's your likes that brings division in Islam. I have read your posts and your fights with Shias on trivial and petty matters. And you come here and have the guts to tell me I am not a Muslim.

Empiree

Who cares if you are 'Anogo'.

What the f**k is "Anogo"? You are the same idi.ot that alluded I might be Yoruba; what the heck is wrong with you?

Independent my foot. Independent? And judging by your posts under usermane on religious matter concerning Islam, it shows that you are ulterior motive. Only time will tell.

You keep mentioning this username person - did he scre.w your wife or girlfriend or sth. Dude - get over it; I AM NOT username or whatever it's called

Yea, judge ko lawyer ni. Your previous posts and threads speak volume

It does - it speaks facts. Whatever I said; I backed it up with references. The 5 CAIR members who were indicted of terrorism charges and convicted. You asked for their names, I provided them yet you swallowed your tongue and didn't provide a response.

Quiet frankly, this is your opinion. I know you enjoying talking to me. You sound bored and needed attention

The response from the foreign minister of U.A.E is my opinion? Are you awake at all?

Empiree:
There are obvious personalities of individuals, that, even if they should become anonymous, they would still be discovered.

Personalities don't change. Is he Yoruba or what?. He even sounds like he lives in the USA reading his posts.

Or maybe he's a big clown pretending to live in the West. I guess he's trying harder to get a job with Bill 'o Reilly or Sean Hannity.

Yoruba - me? hahahahaha . The closest I have come to Yorubas is that one of them is my in-law. I am an independent; I don't care for conservatives or liberals that swing all the way to the left like yourself. I judge situations and events based on policies and facts; something you have a hard time doing.

CAIR is a terrorist organization in the UAE based on UAE factors they use to determine terrorist organization. You can pretend and ignore the facts, that doesn't change the facts

vedaxcool:
The guy is usermane, he noticed how I rebuff his first nonsensical post on this thread, so like his buddy the atheists with 10000 monikers, he switched personality to get attention that he desperately craved in this thread, clown is an understatement for his gangantuan sized problem!

Rebuffed? Are you for real? How do you rebuff 5 members of CAIR that were convicted of terrorism charges by the US government? How do you rebuff the UAE foreign minister response on why CAIR was added to the terrorist list?

Do you close your eyes when you type?

You have left the premise of what is being discussed and have started to make fun of my online handle? How is that related to the post? In between, don't get me twisted with someone else - I recently registered with NL

Empiree:
Gosh! what's wrong with me. I should have known better seeing this-> sly fox5 555 ....slyfox5555


The way he sounds resembles usermane guy by the way. I'd rather leave a clown. I don't listen to that stupid channel anyway nor do i watch TV either.

He's very ridiculous.

I have read quiet extensively on those bogus terror charges. So i don't need to keep back n fourth argument with a clown.

Terror charges & indictment from the Feds is bogus? No yawa. Thanks for the posts, appreciated

AlBaqir:
Here's a case study:
www.nairaland.com/2060516/merry-xmas-christian-brethren

Thanks, very helpful

vedaxcool:
A word that best describes your silly claims

Actually, it describes your reasoning

Nice post and very insightful. I do have a question though - what happens with if this is the case in Islamic countries, does the same apply?

Empiree:
Please leave cair alone. it's not criminal organization. Those fellas accused of wrong doing are individuals and got what they deserved. The fact that Cair was not indicted or accused, whatever you say here doesn't hold water. Cair would have been shut if it was wrong. There are many non Muslims doing worse than what you screaming over here. pls get over it. Makes no sense.

They were individuals that worked for CAIR. How do you explained 5 different individuals in the same organization convicted of terrorism charges over different period of times? CAIR itself was indicted and mentioned as a front for funding Hamas. For now, the US has not said it's illegal neither was Neo-Nazism or KKK criminal organizations either but we all know their works.

We are discussing the list of terrorism that the UAE mentioned right? If you want to discuss what non-muslims are doing, please open a thread and we can discuss that

vedaxcool:
#fixed
If you call posting a single link, links in plural then u clearly are the one who have to question ur seriousness and whether u r in fact visually impaired! But I move further to ask, are u serious or dumb? How do u post one link which reference only one of the numerous allegations u made as evidences for all ur jibbi jabber u made? Poor u, the link couldn't even been taken serious as it comes from someone with ur type of illness! Atleast u gibberish is getting u the attention u so desperately crave!

Oh boy - lunacy at it's peek

Empiree:
I understand. fact remains that cair is an organization in the US and it has not committed any crime as an organization. Therefore, UAE inclusion of cair on the list is pretty much irrelevant. I believe UAE is motivated by something hidden and unknown to us yet. Only time will tell. There are non Muslim organisations out there supporting terrorism state wise but because they are non Muslims, people snubbed them including you. Like I said before, I don't necessarily buy CAIR' idea of suing this or that. If however cair feel the need for it, so be it.

There are innocent Muslims spied upon for doing nothing wrong other than just being Muslims. I was myself interrogated and spied upon for 4yrs by fbi/nypd. You don't want me to tell you mine, do you?. My question to you is what exactly do you want to gain from inclusion of cair on UAE list?(

You haven't done justice to my response. You asked for the 5 people that were indicted; I gave them to you. You asked why CAIR tells Muslims not to work with the FBI; I responded and gave you the specific example I was referring to and you did no justice to that.

I have nothing against CAIR as an organization. I stated the U.A.E foreign minister response as to why CAIR was listed as a terrorist organization. My contention is that CAIR uses it's position as if it speaks for all Muslims like you and myself when it doesn't and sometimes it policies actually harms some of us.

Secondly, the sanctioning of free speech and demonizing of anyone that criticizes Islam by CAIR is not healthy. I am a Muslim, I will engage and debate anyone with other views about my religion without smearing them or demonizing them.

Thirdly, 5 of CAIR high ranking members were involved with terrorism. It puts the organization in a suspect position.

Regarding the FBI and NYPD surveillance; your privacy should be respected; no doubt against that. However, since Sept 9/11 - Muslims have come under the radar because it was some "Muslims" that killed our fellow Americans in the name of our religion. It's natural to be subjected to criticism, investigation and surveillance after such an attack.

Empiree

Trust me, it's still doesnt mean anything. I know where you are getting at with this

Bro, it's easier said than done. Here is a case where CAIR asked a school to investigate a professor because he wrote a book about Islam - http://chronicle.northcoastnow.com/2014/04/11/muslim-advocacy-group-calls-investigation-oberlin-college-professors-bigotry/. Normally, there is no cause for this; absolutely no reason. However, CAIR has this culture of going after people who criticize Islam and that is just one example.

This one is funny. Did you know that CAIR was close 'friend' of fbi for long until around 2010-2011?. CAIR dumped cooperating with them because of mistrust. They enjoyed CAIR cooperation to give info about people and suspects which put CAIR and muslims against each other. But at the same time, fbi was spying on CAIR. Thats where/how the whole disagreements started. And so, CAIR cut off relationship.

Let me give you a typical example. Several of the jihadists involved in the WestGate attack in Kenya are Somalis from Minnesota. They include 22-year-old Ahmed Mohamed Isse of St. Paul and 24-year-old Abdifatah Osman Keenadiid of Minneapolis. In the last few years the FBI and Congress have launched probes into the radicalization of the Somali American community in Minnesota. Al Shabaab recruits young men in local mosques and ships them off to train and fight in Somalia. CAIR has interfered with the U.S. government’s investigation into this operation. Many in the local Somali community denounced CAIR's actions, saying that the group was actually discouraging them from cooperating with the FBI. Here is the story: http://www.startribune.com/local/minneapolis/47883727.html?page=1&c=y.

During congressional testimony, the uncle of one of the missing men recruited and radicalized by Al Shabaab blasted CAIR for instructing the Somali American community not to cooperate with law enforcement and standing blindly behind the mosque that radicalized his nephew. “CAIR held meetings for some members of the community and told them not to talk to the FBI, which was a slap in the face for the Somali American Muslim mothers who were knocking on doors day and night with pictures of their missing children and asking for the community to talk to law enforcement about what they know of the missing kids, Abdirizak Bihi told the House Committee on Homeland Security

This is just another example

mention their names, pls

1. Ghassan Elashi
2. Mousa Abu Marzook
3. Randall Royer
4. Bassem Khafagi
5. Rabih Haddad

Empiree

I must have misunderstood this. I thought you meant govt filed suits against CAIR. That aside, it's every one's right to file suits in USA. It doesnt matter whether it makes sense or not. Many times NYcity filed suit against me and all that times were dismissed. So it's nothing should CAIR filed suits. I don't necessarily always agree with.

They use the filing suit as a strategy to silence or demonize people who critic Islam. You and I can disagree - that doesn't call for a civil suit. CAIR has so many suits against so many entities for so many reasons.

And yes, muslims dont have to give info to anyone if they dont have to even if they know. It's still within constitutional rights unless and until govt issues subpoena.

The culture of encouraging Muslims not to co-operate with authorities is not a good or healthy one. So, if you witnesses a murder and a cop ask you what you saw - the cop should get a subpoena because of that?

Lastly, you sound to gain something from irrelevancies like these.You seem to have ulterior motives saying whatever you want. It's becoming very obvious by day.

I don't understand what you are getting at? Irrelevant in which way - that CAIR has and had terrorist elements?

Fact is, CAIR is legit and it's not terror organization.

Perhaps you didn't read my initial response to this, I will post it again:

The current US administration doesn't label CAIR a terrorist organization. CAIR is not, strictly speaking, a terrorist organization: it doesn’t blow things up or exhort others to do so. It is, however, an Islamic supremacist organization with the same goals as those of Al-Qaeda and the Islamic State: the imposition of Islamic law wherever and whenever possible

CAIR puts a big question mark on itself because several of it's members were indicted on terrorism charges and convicted of those charges.

vedaxcool:
Debate you? Lol sorry I created such an impression, I wouldn't waste my time, I don't do debate I simply debunk, seeing that 90% of the "facts" u stated have no evidence to back them up just your words which so far have been proven to be distortion of truth and outright lies!

Evidence - are you serious or are you blind? Did you or did you not see the links I posted?

vedaxcool:
^^
Lol username reproducing new monikers to get attention, your obsession with the muslim brotherhood is comical like UAE terror list, but. Unlike uae whose comical list is aimed towards achieving its political objectives, your comical claims follows delusions of an unstable mind and clownish banter meant to induce laughter! Manufacturing lies after lies shows how comical you have to descend in order to provide any defence to UAE actions. While I am not a spoke person for MB, neither am I their defence attorney, your lies are simply to dunce like for any human being to have brought, first MB is not responsible for the death of Anwar Sadat it is actually egypt islamic jihad a simple google search would have aid you in knowing this, en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assassination_of_Anwar_Sadat
The MB long renounced violence that is why despite the murder and massacres of its members it has continued to maintain peaceful demonstrations as it tool to oppose the regime. You quoting anti-islamic website as proof shows is laughable, when u have sensible news links to post we would take u beyond being a clown that you are! Furthermore, usermane confusion on Jiyza and it terrorism underscores why you should limit your ignorance to yourself only! On zahawiri stop lying man!

www.globalmbwatch.com/2014/08/18/uk-media-cameron-investigation-concludes-muslim-brotherhood-terrorist-organization/


On CAIR, it is a pity that an FBI agents knows they sponsor terrorism, have evidence they do and yet no arrests nor indictment just your bear palour talks of and innuendoes! As for your few people in Minnesota, save that crap for the marines!

Lastly, the thread isn't about MB or CAIR, infact they are only two of the groups on a long list, having being ignored usermane the first time by myself, you unleashed a new username to fool yourself and get attention from the unsuspecting, your callous use of lies show you deserve pity, pity that you stand on a poor footing eternally deceiving yourself with no end in sight!

I will not debate someone who is not objective and ignores facts.

Empiree

If this is true, CAIR would have been shut. ICNY (Islamic Cultural Center Of New York recieves from from UAE to build largest masjid on 96st and still receives funds. ICNY<->CAIR are interlinked.

Has any ICNY members been convicted of terrorism or aiding terrorist? 5 known members of CAIR have been convicted on jihad terrorist related charges. Why does it have members that support terrorist?

Maybe. But fact remains, that it could be bogus suits. If genuine, could have been shut pending investigation

Bogus? - CAIR has filed over 150 lawsuits against government agencies, businesses and other individuals. In 2005 CAIR with-drew one of those cases when the defendant told the court that CAIR finances were linked to front groups that support Hamas. Apparently it feared exposure that would reveal its leaders connections to terrorist groups like Hamas... Although CAIR is legal under the constitution, it is important to remember that the Communist party and the neo-Nazi parties in America were legal too.

CAIR was indicted for funding Hamas - http://www.nysun.com/national/islamic-groups-named-in-hamas-funding-case/55778/

Yes, correct. Reason for this is because fbi abuses it power by using tactics and info received from suspects during interview against them. To be safe, CAIR advised Muslims to seek council instead of talking to officer. FBI does not use recording. They use pen and paper which is easy to manipulate.

Any and every American citizen has the right to remain silent. That is not what I am talking about. CAIR ask Muslims to refuse to give out information when the FBI investigates terror related charges.

I am not aware of this unless you speak of Holy Land Foundation durng Bush admi. And those convictions are bias, too.

Randall Royer a high member in CAIR was convicted of terrorism and illegal weapons charges by the department of justice - http://www.justice.gov/archive/opa/pr/2004/January/04_crm_030.htm. These are separate cases than the Holy Land Foundation. Here is another one: http://www.foxnews.com/story/2005/04/13/brothers-found-guilty-funding-hamas/

Irrelivant

No it's not irrelevant. That is CAIR tactic even against Muslims here that don't agree with them. They throw legal cases against you, demonize you in the media if you critic them. We are a society that encourages debate, critic even if it's against our religion.

U.S. Rejects UAE Labeling of Two American Muslim Groups

I responded to this yesterday but I will respond again. Sheikh Abdullah bin Zayed Al Nahyan is the United Arab Emirates’ Minister of Foreign Affairs. In this interview with Fox’s Bret Baier, he says: "Our threshold is quite low when we talk about extremism. We cannot accept incitement or funding when we look at some of these organizations. I mean, for many countries the definition of terror is that you have to carry a weapon and terrorize people. For us, it’s far beyond that. We cannot tolerate even the smallest and tiniest amount of terrorism.