₦airaland Forum

Henry240:
-Nigerian Proforce LAVs are used by the Rwandan police in the Central African Republic, "you remember this country right?"...... Same country SANDF special forces conspicuously ran away from after getting beaten blue-black.


- Proforce LAVs were also delivered to South-Sudan, but i do not know the country that ordered it, probably Rwanda.

Selling cheap low grade LAV's to police the worlds poorest state is nothing to brag about.

You should show proof also of those exports because we've come to the realization that a lot of things have been claimed here including photo shopped Cobra aka Proforce armored vehicles.

iblawi:
Guy this is getting too much. You guys don't even know enough about the capabilities of your equipments, we educate you guys rite here on nairaland. Now you want to tell us about our own equipment that you know nothing about. Before you fool yourself further, let me remind you that military equipment vary from country to country even with the same name just as your lynx have no ASW and it cannot carry any arms, same as your valour which has no ASW and can't even carry any torpedoes which are suppose to be standard.
Now Imagine yourself going to read about our gazelle, Augusta or mi-17 helicopter online will anyone tell you they were armed dummy.

You are like a dummy going to look for Facebook in the library.

We are ahead of you and we don't make noise about it, it's SA that want to claim what they are not by posting pics of sub-standard equipment everywhere.

Use your head and stop derailing this tread.

If you want to argue come to the other thread so we can educate you about what you don't know.

Ok can I ask where is your grand daddy Aradu or should I leave it for the other thread

iblawi:
Guy this is getting too much. You guys don't even know enough about the capabilities of your equipments, we educate you guys rite here on nairaland. Now you want to tell us about our own equipment that you know nothing about. Before you fool yourself further, let me remind you that military equipment vary from country to country even with the same name just as your lynx have no ASW and it cannot carry any arms, same as your valour which has no ASW and can't even carry any torpedoes which are suppose to be standard.
Now Imagine yourself going to read about our gazelle, Augusta or mi-17 helicopter online will anyone tell you they were armed dummy.

You are like a dummy going to look for Facebook in the library.

We are ahead of you and we don't make noise about it, it's SA that want to claim what they are not by posting pics of sub-standard equipment everywhere.

Use your head and stop derailing this tread.

If you want to argue come to the other thread so we can educate you about what you don't know.

Are you being serious.

agaugust:
How did I deceive anyone? Do I own the photo?

I said from my first post that is is built by proforce, I dont own the photo, its copied directly from proforce website

http://www.proforcedefence.com/picgallery/index.html

If you have any problem with the photo, you can go fight them at proforce office.

You say the photo is not on proforce website? Its number 28 of the 55 photos gallery. You must have been born with cataract in your two eyes
.

I'm done with you on this one the argument is over.

The pic is photo shopped.

Henry240:
It is not.

Henry please for once let us not deceive ourselves here, we both can see clearly that the photo was photo shopped. There's also no such pic in the Proforce gallery so whose f.ooling who here.

Why is the back ground of both pics exactly the same, can you explain it to me?


Let's make a deal post the very same pics on your thread and allow the non SA and Nigerian posters tell us what there opinion is of the two pictures.

agaugust:
LOL....United Nations dont buy junk equipment, they buy NATO standard. Nigeria has penetrated the arms export market, now we are competing with you ! We will soon overtake you like we did with GDP.....LOL....eny is hurting you real bad. Go ask UN how many they bought, its none of my business. Fact is that UN is now buying proudly made in Nigeria defence products, deal with it.

Don't try change the topic here or do you think I'm a f.ool.

Since when has Nato standard become the benchmark for selling second grade LAV's.

Show me which Nato country Proforce or Dicon export any of military grade equipment to?

Competing with who and to what level or standards?

What does GDP have to do with this topic we are discussing presently?

Why should I go ask the UN, because I never saw a single Proforce LAV deployed in Goma or Sudan in the past year.

Do you mean the UN is buying more Augubugu photo shopped Nigeria defense products.

agaugust:
I posted from Proforce website, I did not post a cobra APC http://www.proforcedefence.com/picgallery/index.html

Yes you did and you never posted the this link in your previous post.

You tried to deceive us by clearly posting a photo shopped pic of the Cobra. There's also no
edited Corbra pic on Proforce site so
its clear as daylight who posted it.

agaugust:
Call me a mo...ron and get 5 of your friends to like your comment. It won't stop me from speaking for the general good of Africa.

Strategic what? You think the 5,000 man AU force will all fight one single battle in one area of operation together as a 5,000 man brigade?

Do you know the universal rules about intervention forces and general military deployment rules?

1. AU force of 5,000 will be able to deploy only about 2,500 in a country at a time, or else how will they do troop rotation every 6 months if all 5,000 men deploy in one country at the same time?

2. AU force may need to intervene in more than one country at a time, e.g Cameroon, Libya, and Somalia needs urgent help now. Means maybe 1,250 men only will be deployed in each country if AU chooses two out of the three that needs help.

3. AU force of 1,250 troops in say Somalia, and El-Shabbab attacks two different cities in east and west Somalia. Means about 500 troops will respond to each area of operation while the remaining 250 will garrison the AU base. God help AU that it is not aBoko Haram type of asymmetric and highly mobile warfare where 500 Bokos will each attack 5 different towns in one week spread over a battle space the size of Scotland.

4. Your big strategic size 5,000 troop AMANI force will end up in reality fighting as detachments of small sized tactical units of about 500 men in reality of todays kind of asymmetric war threats ravaging Africa !

You still think I am a m...oron ?

The main problem with you is that you are to hot headed and never seem to think rationally at times. You seem to only look at one side and not considering contingency plans when making up such fanatical childish stories.

The plan for the AU is 5000 troops per region ECOWAS, SADAC, East Africa etc. Look at the FIB country in DRC where SA, Tanzania and Malawi troops are involved, each have a complement of atleast 900-1250 combat ready troops on rotation while also being supported by the DRC army. The very fact that the current DRC situation has been brought under control by less then 5000 SADAC combat troops with support of UN peacekeepers in a region almost twice the size of NE Nigeria itself shows you that its a workable solution for Africa.

With adequate equipment and training 5000 rapid response troops per region is adequate enough to deal with regional issues provided that UN/AU peace keepers can take over from them as soon as there is relative stability in the effected area of operations.

Your boko haram story is also funny judging by the fact that it was your own military and political incompetent leaders who allowed boko haram to become what it is today. If your trained soldiers with its modern equipment was up to standard as you so much claim here on NL, 50 000 Nigerian troops should've contained bokoharam and not allowed them to spread to your neighbors.

300 trained fully equipped soldiers with air and logistics support should be more then enough to handle 500 rebels, so your argument is totally baseless.

I would not go as far as calling you a m.oron because you do raise 1 or 2 valid points, but I must say your actions and claims here borders on your usual anti SA hate you've displayed countless times.

agaugust:
United Nations buying made in Nigeria LAV is hurting you guys badly in South Africa....we are taking UN market from you soon, as well as AU market....watch out for out coming MRAP and tracked IFV.

Meanwhile, enjoy proudly made in Nigeria LATV....Light Armoured Tactical Vehicle, the first one is being made to have amphibious version, the second one to favour special forces or regular forces patrol ops....ALL PROUDLY MADE IN NIGERIA by black Nigerians making world class equipment that United Nations is happy to buy as world class quality....we don't have a defence industry owned by Europeans....like SA depends on foreign companies.

Proudly Nigerian !

Are you being serious.

Those two junks you've posted are better in quality compared to what SA made LAV.

How many of those junks did the UN buy. Our old Ratel is and will still be better then anything you make in the next 30 years.

Whenever you argue its about race why do you always have to prove Nigerians are black hell even Satan knows this by now. You are happy to work for whites and kissing there *asses everyday to avoid deportation, so in reality your just a hypocrite.

iblawi:
See dis Bush man I said describe world standard MRAPS and you are posting pics. I can post nice pics too.

Ok so you also in on the insult brigade.

You don't get my point, I don't blame you. I showed you what is produced in SA and exported to so called "super powers", it was a responds to what your fellow countryman claimed that Proforce and Dicon produces LAV's and MRAP's that's on par with SA.

Deal with it.

Henry240:
You are silly!

Point remains that Nigeria learnt nothing new from Amani II. As the systems used in the exercise are/ or similar with systems they already field right here at home.

Is this your personal opinion in support of Augubugu or did you personally evaluate all the exercises that took place in the 3 weeks. Why is there no report by military analysts attending AMANI II that it was a futile exercise.

Was the exercises about testing system requirements or was it about AU trying to establish a africa wide coherent military structures to rapidly respond to african problems.

Can you please show me the C2 system Nigerian Army has integrated into its units.

Henry240:
Nigeria did not learn anything from Amani. There is nothing new to learn. Are you r3tarded? ......... Nigeria's C2 infrastructure includes a state-of-the-art COBR facility, what can be more advanced than that?

Since 2011 the Nigerian Navy has been operating an advanced Digital C2
system
"the installation of a new surface
surveillance system, under its Regional Maritime
Awareness Capability initiative. The surveillance system,
which is a United States Navy-inspired coastal surveillance
programme, uses an automatic identification system and
ground-based radar and sensors to enhance awareness of
maritime activities".


According to NN authorities, such technology has become
necessary due to the need for timely and accurate
dissemination of information during operations. The NN says such application of information and
communications technology will definitely enhance
command and control and ICT will play a very important
role in tackling some contemporary challenges.
The system also assists NN authorities in enforcing




The Nigerian military conducts more regular trainings than any country in Africa. Trainings are regularly scheduled(Kontagora, Jaji, Kachia) to deal with Nigeria's and Africa's contemporary threats, size does not matter you fool.

No, combat does not play out like that. As we've seen in Nigeria, there are multiple occasions where you have to take on the enemy in towns, and cities or defend a towns, cities or villages.




* Pic related, Nigerian Navy's state of the art Digital C2 center installed by Davoize Networks Nigeria Ltd.

Henry you are trying to compare apples and oranges here.

Henry240:
-The first photo is a toyota based Light armoured personnel carrier.

- Second photo is Unimog based Mine Resistant Ambush Protected vehicle.

The point I'm making here was also related to a post by Augubugu some 3pages ago.

iblawi:
Pls describe a world standard MRAPS.

There's only 2 standards the cheap 3rd world standard manufactured in Nigeria Pic1

Then there's the made in South Africa world standard Pic2

iblawi:
Nigerian companies are really doing well even if they don't make noise?
We are proud to be Nigerians

Who the hell cares?

All we know is that non of those weapons displayed are manufactured in Nigeria.

agaugust:
You guys actually do NOT own 90% of your so called local defence industry, BAE is also British company with branch in South Africa, Rheinmetall is a German company with branch in South Africa just like Toyota and Ford motors.

You South Africans own less than 10% of the technology you claim to have, it's all imported from Europe and they can paralyze South Africa is they wish.....foreigners own your defence industry unlike Nigeria where Nigerian army engineering corps owns Igirigi APC, Badeh Aerospace owns Gulma drone, Proforce owns Leapard LAV, Nigerian air force AFIT college owns Amebo drone, Ichoku drone, bomb disposal robot wheeled and tracked versions, and Farawa light aircraft, DICON owns our infantry weapons and equipment products, we own ourselves in Nigerian defence industry, we do NOT depend on Europe to open branches and build weapons in Naija.

Nigerian defense industry is independent, South African defence industry is 90% colonized by Europe today 2015....SA is not free yet o ! Mandela only got Zulus/Bantus the political offices....the rest of South Africa is still owned by Europe.

Firstly Europe tried to paralyze us before even Nigeria, and it mostly failed on the military front and it actually made us independent largely. That's why today we can put our own sub systems on every single Gripen, Frigate and submarines including building components for the A400M, something that no other sub saharan country can currently do not even Algeria or Egypt

We have 100% SA owned companies who manufacture drones including our latest Africa's very first hydrogen powered UAV, tech that's today still beyond your reach.
http://itweb.co.za/mobilesite/defenceweb/home/item_id-41271/

Your drones are university grade mock ups nowhere near even as high tech as our old vulture and seeker who has actually seen combat in middle east and Angola.

BAE Land Systems belongs 100% to Denel so all the tech is owned by SA now.

Rheinmetall Defense SA is a joint German and Denel owned company with 51% owned by the Germans so where the hell did you get your 90% from.
http://www.rheinmetall-defence.com/en/rheinmetall_defence/company/divisions_and_subsidiaries/rheinmetall_denel_munition/index.php

You clearly lack any insight into defense industry Mr defense analysts, for you to come and clearly be so mischievous don't really surprise me at all.

The America you "claim" to live in is majority made up of immigrants and slaves, your very country can also not function without your Lebanese and Chinese masters in charge of your infrastructure building. Your educated people would rather leave your country and settle on the very "white mans land" you so worship.



This is 2015 not the years of african independence struggles of whites must leave africa. You are an "immigrant" yourself so why always refer to South African born 8th generation whites as Europeans when second generation Nigerians in America and SA see themselves as American and South African.


If you wanna discuss military related issues let's use common sense not fantasies.

agaugust:
South Africa sells what weapons to world powers? When? How?

You sold about 2,000 MRAPs to USA, then USA builds it's own better MRAP superior to yours and manufactured 25,000 units. So what is the big deal selling MRAPs, is that a ballistic missile? Namibia builds MRAP and Nigeria too is developing an MRAP with Proforce.

Selling Umkhonto to Finland? Finland is NOT a world power, and they bought a few of your missile for the sake of returning favour in your business deal since you are buying hundreds of Badger IFV engine and chassis from them.

Southies did not sell any offensive weapon to any world power anywhere you nitwit !

Your defense industry is NOT one of the largest in the world, you build jet fighters and warships? Your SA export ranking is almost bottom table on the top 20 in the world, you are only ahead of lowly Uzbekistan or so.

As an analyst this reaps of ignorance and jealousy on a grandiose scale.

As the largest economy and populous nation in Africa who has been independent for over 50years now, where are you on the top 20 list.

Where is your indigenous weapons exports and please don't give me the whites gave SA weapons tech.

lezz:
Shush, faggy. Your deep problem is of personal identity crisis .

You have an issue with facts and you're a blind patriot with a heavy burden of ignorance.

You're not only a clown, you're mired deeply in the mud of self-deception and a misplaced sense of self -worth.


Your selective reading makes you one of nairaland's emerging idiotic buffoons.

Now blow me away.

This is the very reason I can deduce you are not really mentally stable.

I've been on this site way before you became aware that the internet existed, so I know just how to deal your kind.

Anyway you take yourself way to serious on this thread.

lionel4power:
Iran has more surface to surface missile than any other country in the middle east.

It means nothing when the majority are old Sovet era, and Scud off springs.

lionel4power:
IRAN can bombard the hell outta Isreal... they have surface to surface missiles.

if hamas can fire thousands of mortals and rockets... imagine what Iran will do.

You do know that Iran is a over 1500km away from Israel.

The Iron dome system was quite effective against Hamas rockets at such a short distance and time to respond to those.

Now imagine what 50 Jericho III's will do when armed with non nuclear warheads.

Iran currently still possess limited means of attacking Israel but in 5-10years they may be a hole new different opponent if they go ahead with there proposed acquisitions.

lezz:
You dyslexic, drooling baboon of a muppet! !!

You couldn't see I was responding to your monkey zulu who quoted me. _Stupid frog.


The problem with you _idiots is that you're _fucking self-righteous and hypocritical.

15 million South Africans are without basic water and sanitation . Deal with that and stop bellowing like a buffoon.

N.B I thought you were the drooling newt who said he wasn't going to quote me again.

Seems I always have a way of crawling under your light skin.


What sanity are you talking about? Your evasive arguments and needless comparisons?

What exactly is your problem.

Your emotional outburst prove to me you are either a teenager or a very old fart with deep psychological issues.

You post outdated data yet you want people to take you seriously.

I can play your game of insults but I'm way beyond such childish rhetoric.

lezz:
It's not as simple as just a water scarcity issue. It is more of infrastructure and water supply.


http://thewaterproject.org/water-in-crisis-south-africa

We finally got some sanity back to this thread and you come back to spoil the fun yet again.

Since you don't want to stop go read on how Nigerian cities only has 30% access to potable water. Water borne diseases like Cholera and Typhoid
kills more then 80 000 people in Nigeria.
http://ynaija.com/opinion-nigerias-gdp-rebasing-and-voodoo-statistics/

Nigeria is not a water scarce country and yet the FG by don't provide quality tap water over 80m of its citizens that's why bottled water is such an lucrative industry in Nigeria and has become a pollution problem to your waterways. Bore holes is largely used in Nigeria as a means to water security something that's not a luxury in Southern Africa.

Nigeria also has a lot of water contamination issues even worse then any other african countries due to decades of oil pollution particular in some areas in the delta also.
http://edition.cnn.com/2015/11/10/africa/niger-delta-oil-pollution/

SA has its fair share legacy infrastructure problems yet per % of the population we fair better then Nigeria as a hole. This current problem of water is not just a SA issue but currently an SADAC wide problem. I must also admit that years of lack of investments into water infrastructure upgrades is contributing and has exacerbated the current SA water crisis due to old systems not being maintained in some local gov areas. But as hole SA has done a lot in providing water to majority of citizens, and being a developmental State we will continue to have our own share of problems like all countries worldwide.

And while you at it please stop your narrow minded tribalist rhetoric of zulus 1/2/3, because as we all know by now Nigeria is at a crisis point themselves where Biafra independence has once again come to the fore and it has led Buhari to unconstitutionally even ignore court orders to release a certain Mr Kanu.

Let's end this, if you truly wanna discuss something let's look for African solutions to all our problems because in reality we all in the same boat.

lionel4power:
[b]LETS BE REALISTIC HERE.. PEOPLE WIDELY IGNORE IRAN.

IRAN WILL DEFEAT ANY COUNTRY IN THE MIDDLE EAST.

REMEMBER HOW THEY DEFEATED IRAQ (WITH SUPPORT FROM USA,SAUDI ARABIA, UK, RUSSIA E.TC)

TAKE A LOOK AT THE STAT YEAR 2015

ARMY

Iran Israel

Active Frontline Personnel: IRAN-545,000 ISREAL-160,000

Active Reserve Personnel: IRAN-1,800,000 ISREAL 630,000

Tanks IRAN 1,658 ISREAL 4,170 (ISREAL WINS)

AFV IRAN 1,315 ISREAL 10,000+
S
Artillery pieces IRAN 8,196 ISREAL 500+ (IRAN WINS)

Towed artillery IRAN 2,078 ISREAL 300 (IRAN WINS)

Self-propelled guns IRAN846 ISREAL 620 (IRAN WIN)

Multiple rocket systems IRAN 48 ISREAL 1,474 (IRAN WINS)

Mortars IRAN 5,000 ISREAL 750 (IRAN WIN)

Anti-tank weapons IRAN 1,400 ISREAL 900 (IRAN WINS)

Anti-aircraft weapons IRAN 1,701 ISREAL 200 (IRAN WIN)

Logistical vehicles IRAN 12,000 ISREAL 7,684 (IRAN WINS)


NAVY

Iran Israel

Total navy ships IRAN 397 ISREAL 64 (IRAN WINS

Merchant marine IRAN 76 ISREAL 10 (IRAN WINS

Major ports/terminals IRAN 3 ISREAL 4 (ISREAL WINS)

Aircraft carriers IRAN 0 ISREAL 0

Destroyers IRAN 3 ISREAL 3 (ISREAL HAS BETTER TECH)

Submarines IRAN 32 ISREAL 5 (IRAN WINS

Frigates IRAN 5 ISREAL 0 (IRAN WINS

Patrol craft IRAN 198 ISREAL 56(IRAN WINS

Amphibious assault craft IRAN 26 ISREAL 0 (IRAN WINS)



AIR POWER

IRAN ISREAL

FIGHTER IRAN 189 ISREAL 242

GROUND ATTACK IRAN 108 ISREAL 227

ATTACK AIRCRAFT IRAN 20+ ISREAL 67

TRANSPORT IRAN 196 ISREAL 101

ATTACK HELICOPTER IRAN 12 ISREAL 81

TRANSPORT HELI. IRAN 127 ISREAL 200

SAM IRAN 297 ISREAL 48

AAA IRAN 1000+ ISREAL 920

MISSILE SYSTEMS

Iran (1000+) Israel (500+)

Short-range IRAN Shahab-2 (1,280km) ISREAL Jericho-1 (1,400km)

Medium-range IRAN Ghadr-1 (1,600km) ISREAL Jericho-2 (2,800km)

Long-range IRAN Sajjil-2 (2,400km) ISREAL Jericho-3 (5,000km)





WE ALL ASSUME THAT IRAN IS WEAK DUE TO SANCTIONS. BUT THE TRUTH IS THAT EVEN THE MIGHTY USA DOES NOT KNOW THE TRUE CAPABILITIES OF IRAN.

NOBODY CARES THAT IRAN IS AN EXCELLENT ARMS SMUGGLING COUNTRY. THEY ONCE SMUGGLED 10 BOEING 747 AIRCRAFT WITHOUT THE WORLD KNOWING UNTIL RECENTLY. ONCE THE USA HAD TO DESTROY ALL ITS PHANTOM JETS AND AH-1S SO THAT IRAN WONT GET IT, THATS HOW GOOD THEY ARE.

IRAN ARE EXCELLENT IN REVERSE ENGINEERING. REMEMBER A SMUGGLED OR COPIED WEAPON SYSTEM CAN STILL KILL JUST AS EASILY AS A GENUINE ONE.

ALSO REMEMBER HOW THE SU-25 FROGFOOT JET THEY GAVE TO IRAQ TO FIGHT ISIS WAS IN PERFECT CONDITION. IT IS STILL SURPRISING THE WHITE HOUSE TILL TODAY.

www.aljazeera.com/indepthfeatures/2012/03/2012326131343853636.html


www.globalfirepower.com/country-military-strength-detail.asp?country_id=israel

www.globalfirepower.com/country-military-strength-detail.asp?country_id=iran


It appears that Iran is looking to bolster its armed forces with the
prospect of sanctions being lifted under the nuclear agreement and an
estimated US$150 billion worth of frozen funds to be released to
Tehran. DEBKAfile , an Israeli military intelligence website, has alleged
that Iran is planning to buy 150 Chinese Chengdu J-10 multirole jet
fighters. It is also rumoured that Tehran is considering the purchase
of 250 Sukhoi Su-30 “Flanker H” fighter jets from Moscow, following a
purchase earlier this month of 100 IL-78 Midas in-flight refuelling
tanker aircraft. Further adding to the rumours, Iranian Government
spokesman Mohammad Baqer Nowbakht, after a visit by French
Foreign Minister Laurent Fabius, noted that ‘France could satisfy our
need for Mirage warplanes ... buying new Mirage planes is the first
priority of the Islamic Republic of Iran Air Force (IRIAF).’[/b]

www.futuredirections.org.au/publications/indian-ocean/29-indian-ocean-swa/2360-iran-seeks-to-bolster-air-force-following-nuclear-agreement.html

Yes Iran is a regional power that packs a medium punch like Turkey and Egypt.

But to be honest most of the weapons platforms you listed from Iran are mostly old Soviet era systems.

Currently the only air defense system on the Iranian side worth noting is the S-300 that's if the Russians have started delivery of them and that said it also depends on the numbers as well.

If Iran gets the J-10 and Su-30's it would surely boast there air capability. But we should also note that Israelis operate some of the most advanced fighter fleet in the world even better then the Chinese in some aspects and early next year Israel will start receiving deliveries of there F-35B's and there's been comments on janes defense that the Israelis has already started developing local tech for there F-35's. So Israel will still enjoy a relative Edge over Iran and the Middle East for some time in Air defenses.

I don't know the accuracy of your report on 100 IL-78's because that's a bit excessive if you look at the size of the Iranian airforce fighter fleet. The reason I say this is that not even UK, Germany or France for that matter can maintain that number of in flight refueling platforms at there current budgets and in truth Iran is not the league of those nations.

All things aside Iran will do damage to any country who so wishes to invade them.

iblawi:
This is what started the debate


This was used as an example when we were comparing Egyptians and isreali forces

Now that very guy claims its not him that started the SA vs Algeria debate.

What is also funny is that what we all forget is that both Algeria/Egypt find themselves in a region where massive arms proliferation is taking place. Algeria today is preparing its forces to be ready for a possible conflict with its neighbor Morocco while also keeping up with Arab states arming themselves heavily, and Egypt has Ethiopia, Sudan while is also being used as a possible proxy against Iran by Saudi's and US in the future.

Regional dynamics and foreign policy play a pivotal role in a nations armed requirements and SA finds itself in a region where peace and stability prevails and a region where common interests binds us together both cultural and economically, so we currently don't have a need for more aggressive platforms as was the case during the Apartheid era where we had communists neighbors supporting ANC like Angola who was a Soviet proxy state.

The difference is SA has the ability to produce weapons more lethal then any african state and that includes nuclear if the threat environment acquires us to do so.

agaugust:
Nigeria was never in the discussion, it was you who said a country with better home grown defence industry will defeat the one that has less local technology, and i proved you wrong with Algeria Vs South Africa.....firepower will determine the winner in a war.

SA did NOT upgrade many Algerian weapons, you did very very little as most of their arsenal in Algeria does not need upgrade, they have the most modern military force in Africa.

Algeria has almost 20 frigates and corvettes, so SA put Umkhonto on only 2 ships and that is what you call many? 2 ships ? Many ?

Did South Africa upgrade Algerian Su-30 Flanker, Su-24 Bombers, Yak-130 trainer/attack jets, Su-24 Electronic warfare aircraft, T-90 tanks, Kilo submarines, Tigre class frigates, S-400 long range SAM....? Are you not a big liar ?
.

You seem to only do selective reading and ignore a lot while lying also.

What is it with you and proving this or the other. Its always SA vs Algeria/Egypt/Ethiopia never Ngeria vs Them or anybody WHY?. I can also claim here for a fact that Algeria can defeat you in just one night of air strikes and you won't even have any chance of fielding any air to air platforms against them with your ancient airforce.

Where have I said we upgraded Su-30 an the other platforms you listed. We upgraded there hinds to Super hind configuration and there Meko200 uses our SAM and guns. We also supply ammunitions to them.

Yes overall Algeria has a better armed military but in our waters and air they will never win a war.

iblawi:
Let's over look your army for now but tell us what training your airforce and Navy have.

First answer me why has this become a SA vs Egypt/Algeria debate.

Our naval training is up to Nato standards and we exercise with them. Our training platforms and exercises are better then any sub saharan nation and that's a fact.

I'm a member of the SAAF, though we currently have funding gabs to maintain our current and future platforms our training is more then adequate to maintain a level of readiness.

iblawi:
I never mention anything about Nigeria facing Algeria.

I've said it many times on this thread that Egypt and Algeria have the most powerful military in Africa. South Africa and Nigeria is nowhere near them.

Egypt and Algeria are the only military that can project forces outside their territories and they can fight any other country without much stress.

I never claimed that SANDF is better then Algeria or Egypt. We all know they have bigger military spending then SA, and with bigger spending comes more platforms.

What you seem to miss here on your futile quest to proof SA's weaknesses , is that countries with better weapons manufacturing capabilities can sustain a war far better.

Egypt is nothing without US/Saudi/UAE Aid military to prop up there regime and to keep the Muslim Brotherhood in check and Israel safe. Without the $2-3bn Aid they will not even be able to threaten Ethiopia.

To project force is nothing but to sustain one 5000km away against a nation who has the financial and manufacturing capability to defend itself is a total other proposition on its own.

You claim Egypt can fight without much stress, can you proof it. There are currently less then 10 countries with the capability to sustain a protracted war far outside its borders and no African or Middle Eastern nation are amongst them.

agaugust:
Algeria has force projection to reach South Africa by sea. They have a very modern and huge supply ship/landing ship/helicopter carrier/anti-submarine helicopters. They have many new stealth frigates with BVR SAM missiles to wipe out any Gripen jet, they have longer range anti-ship missiles to sink any Valour frigate, they have ASW weapon armed ships many submarines to defeat any Heroine class Type 209.

Algeria will eat up South Africa for dinner and there will be no left over in the dish
.

I see you forget very quickly that during war time we will arm our Navy and Gripens with the systems we need to counter any threat.

You think just because a nation has ASW platforms it will detect and defeat an opposing force without taking into account that its the on board systems, training including luck that will determine an outcome.

We have a upgraded large supply ship also so what's your point does that determine the outcome of a war.

It seems you still don't know the basics or you just being your usual self.

iblawi:
It seem you know too little about Algeria's military.
Algerian SU30 will finish your Gripens.

Yes your opinion.

If I may ask how and let us be realistic not fictitious, and while you at it can may you also do me a favor by telling me how your F-7 and air defense would fair against and Algerian air attack.

iblawi:
Hahaha lol

SA can't face Algeria on air, land and sea.

You do realize SA upgraded many of there weapons platforms and they use our very own Umkhonto SAM on there warships.

The Gripens are more then capable of facing Algerian Su-30's

May I remind you Nigeria is even in a worse position then SA.

agaugust:
Show proof that Algerian army is made up of conscripts. They have same policy of service as Israel, so Israeli army is a conscript army? The service rule means Algeria and Israel have a large pool of combat trained youths to mobilize in war, that gives Algeria a big advantage over South Africa that is full of idle, jobless, illiterate, dormant, lazy youths of a wasted generation. Show me proof that Algerian army is full of conscripts like nobody joins army voluntarily, show proof.

Algeria has a twice bigger standing army and a bigger population, plus more wealth and superior weapons.

South Africa will just mobilize dull brain Zulus for superior Algerian tanks, artillery, bombs, and missiles to eat for breakfast.

You continue with insults yet you talk so much nonsense without any logic.

Its always Zulu this and that with you nigerians whenever you can't argue with facts.

The rest of your arguments are not worth responding to.

iblawi:
That's true.
It's a FACT

Your opinion=fact
Nice.