₦airaland Forum

Ihuomadinihu:
Accessory is not attire,my friend!
We are taking about full attires. Igbo shirts can go with or without cuffs,those are modern emblishments not exclusive to anyone. How does it make it unafrican. The modern designer beads that women wear to complement their attire are UnAfrican. The shoes you wear are unAfrican. The modern Nigerian Headgear is unafrican. You have to stick to one definition,you are no longer making sense.

Thanks for agreeing with my first post on the thread and the reason for this unnecessary back and forth. Daalụ

Ihuomadinihu:
We are not discussing about English names.
Let me address this properly.
Africans/Ijaws have been tying wrapper before the white man.
Currently the design and type of wrapper in 17th century is different from what we are tying now.
A popular wrapper amongst the Ijaw is called the George wrapper.
It's design and style is indian,it is populary called the Madras over there.
But it is exclusively a Southern Nigerian wrapper although it's fabric and design comes from India.
I guess it is now Non African in your confused mind.
The crux of the matter is that the hats and wrapper are African but they are imported and designed by other people,yet it doesn't mean Africans had no wrapper or hats before its importation.
OMG!
Confused mind.

Facepalm. When was the last time you took an IQ test? I doubt your IQ is up to 60 (maximum) based on all your incoherent submissions. No pun intended.

What has wrapper got to do with European styled hats? Do Indians also tie wrappers? So why are you dragging that into the discourse when I already gave an example with Ghana kente being of Chinese origin, but since the way they wear them (style they use it for) is different from the Chinese, it's African. And I even went further with an example of cotton which isn't European and European clothes.

Perhaps, you don't understand the word 'style', huh?

Ihuomadinihu:
it's not about the fabric right.
Hats: the fabric is not African,so that is valid.
The style has been existing before the white man.
So how is it unAfrican again?
Going by your analogy,nothing is African.
Sorry,go and sleep. Your arguements holds no water,you are running in circles.

Phut:
@ The Equalizer, I never called Changi a shirt. Your submission is that it is a shirt (and impliedly Western). My submission to you over and over on this thread is that if you call it a shirt (and therefore Western) there is a whole lot of other Nogerian attires than can be described as shirts and therefore Western.
Sometimes you have to flip things on people to get them to understand.
Now, what is your traditional attire? Care to share?

It's a an European styled shirt. This is a Thomas Pink shirt design below (compare the design with what the Ibo groom is wearing and you'll see that they're basically the same):

https://thumbs4.ebaystatic.com/d/l225/m/mW0CZ8X16hUOGY_LHp7WHaw.jpg

Also, look at the cufflinks. Are they also African?

I don't have a traditional attire. I'm a black man and I don't do tribal identity.

Ihuomadinihu:
Ha! You have issues! If it is borrowed,it becomes non African. If it evolves,it becomes non African. If the design is different it becomes non African.
The style of those hats were worn before any European set foot in Southern Nigeria. Stop confusing yourself.

Hahahahaha.

If they wore those hats before any European set foot in Southern Nigeria, then they were also called: D1ckson, Jonathan, Goodluck et al before any European set foot in South Nigeria. English language is also their mother tongue.

Ihuomadinihu:
You can keep that opinion to yourself. I have asked you a number of questions concerning African and world attire. What do you know about shirts in Africa. If people decide to revolutionize their wears to suit current fashion,i don't see it becomes non-African. Igbo dress is 100percent African,take it or leave it. Your definition of African attire at this point is myopic.

Yes, as African as the English language is.

You dragged me into Ibo, only to end up lacking substance.

Ihuomadinihu:
Basically,those hats were in vogue made from local materials. It's just like saying Europeans brought hats to Africa. The difference right now is that those hats are made from foreign materials. Don't assume you know everything about Africa. As it stands,those hats represent any Ijaw man where ever you see him.

No, it represents European sailors regardless what local materials they make them from now. That's an European design.

No matter how you make a kilt, it's always going to be Scottish. No matter how you make Kimono, it's always going to be Japanese. No matter how you make kaftan/hijab, it's always going to be arab.

Phut:
I never agreed with you that it's a shirt.

You did and I posted the excerpt in my last post. Why are you trying to renegade on your own submission?

How many ways can people wear body covering: you can cover your upper body and lower body. Lower body you can cover with trousers or a wrapper as has been earlier discussed. Upper body by wearing a piece of cloth "toga" style or by wearing a "shirt" as you would describe it.
When people have their cultural dressing and even have a name for it, it's wrong to come and dismiss it as a "shirt"
Even the English people that call it a shirt were not the 1st to wear that style of dress.
Using your line of reasoning. Sokoto is just pair of trousers. The inner top is a shirt. Iro and bubba is a blouse and wrapper.
Basically, all I am saying is respect peoples culture and tradition as opposed to being dismissive.

It's about the style. Even the picture on this look like the classic TM Lewin, Thomas Pink, and Charles Tyrwhitt design of the tailors on Jermyn Street, London. I'm a professional and I'm into shirts, so I know a lot about shirts. If it had been sown in a different style that's quintessentially African, then you might have an argument.

Also in one of your earlier submission, you talked about people creating their own style with foreign fabric. You were okay with that. What stops a Tiv person from saying that what this and that person makes with lace material is Unafrican because it is with foreign fabric, while the black and white stripped material they used is the only real african attire.

This isn't about the fabric used, it's about style/design. That's a Jermyn Street tailors' style/design. There's nothing African about it.

Ihuomadinihu:
Why not answer the ijaw hat question first. You are the one going on and on about what is real and fake African.

Okay, since you're trying to deflect it so as not to put yourself in a tight spot, I'll answer it.

The hat is foreign and has no semblance to anything African.

Ihuomadinihu:
You have not answered my question yet. What is your definition of an African attire? If it has been acquired or has evolved into an ethnic identity,will you still call it African?

It depends of how you define 'evolved into an ethnic identity'.

Would you call the hat Ijaws/Itsekiris/Urhobos wear as traditional African attire?

Phut:
Nope. I am not agreeing with you that Changi is a shirt. I am letting you know that if you describe Changi as a shirt, then by your line of reasoning, the upper body wear put on by Yoruba men should be described as a shirt as well

Can you make your argument without drawing a parallel with Yoruba? I don't know much about Yoruba traditional attire and I'm not in a position to speak about it.

You'd agree with me that it's a shirt (excerpt from your last post: I would call what they wear a shirt as well). So if you agree it's a shirt (an European styled one), don't you think that regardless of whatever local name you call it, that doesn't negate the fact that it's foreign?

Americans call casual sport shoes: sneakers. Brits call it: trainers. However, does that negate the fact that it's basically the same thing?

Full list of nominees:

Simon Armitage
A E Stallings
Ian Gregson
Seán Haldane
Wole Soyinka

He should win it.

Since you're celebrating Nigerian exploits, I think the new Mayor of Lambeth is Nigerian.

You can celebrate him too.

Akolawole:
Its a Pity

Every single thing we have to be tribalistic.

The guy was elected as a Councillor, a position you dont get paid for but allowances.

He is NOT an MP which is a much more bigger position.

There are so many Nigerians who are Councillors in UK even there was once a very brilliant Hausa boy who performed brilliantly. Also this http://africanleadership.co.uk/nigerian-girl-aisha-eniola-emerges-youngest-councillor-in-london-uk/

Ha!

Greater London should have over 1,200 councillors. Anyone can become a councillor (even as an independent candidate) as long as you can dedicate your free time to serving your ward without pay. They do give allowances though.

Notwithstanding, it does help in getting council flats from the council and to speed up application.

freshvine:
I thought you wanted to commit suicide sometime ago being the coward you are. Do igbos look like cowards to you?

I think he got it because he used to be the secretary general of the commonwealth and under the queen. If Nigeria were decent a lot of Nigerian ex-presidents would also have it. John Kuffour of Ghana and Jacob Zuma of South Africa also have the order. Mugabe used to have it too, but they took it back from him.

Deltagiant:
All these argument boils down on which tribe that has the biggest honor, presttige and recognition so far in England

And on that, I think the Igbo has an edge over the yoruba based on the fact that Chief Emeka Anyaoku has a place/position in England no Nigerian living or dead ever had.

In 1998 Chief Anyaoku received the Freedom of the city of London Medal, the highest honour the ancient capital of Britain can bestow. The former secretary general had a $1.8 million chair in Commonwealth studies named after him at the University of London. He was decorated by Queen Elizabeth as an Honorary Knight Grand Cross of the Royal Victorian Order

Read more: http://www.onlinenigeria.com/people/ad.asp?blurb=47#ixzz3ZgKNASfs

Great and I'm proud of him, and all the other Nigerians (many of them) who have been bestowed with the British Order. If they accepted it, who am I not to celebrate them? But hey, a man named John Lennon rejected it because it represents British imperialism. I think a Jamaican also rejected it.

I only wanted recognition for all the honourable councillors who are Nigerians (Ibo, Edo, Efik, and Yoruba), not here to wave schlong. Can we please celebrate all of them?

Ralphlauren:
Trust me, those people across the river niger are just too DUMB!

They do not know the difference between a MP and a councillor.

Hahahaha.

somegirl1:
Nwanne gba onye ahu nkiti

If I were to call you nkita or ezi, how would you feel? Ndo.

Phut:
Well it is very much on topic. I would call what they wear a shirt as well. Which totally obliterates your argument as to what is Unafrican.
Also i daresay that the Agbada's Yoruba's wear a lot of,was borrowed. Which takes us back to the claim that fashion is not static

Now you agree with me that it's a shirt.

Can you expound on what makes an European shirt African?

Ihuomadinihu:
You are obviously not Igbo. So who are you and where are you from. That will go a long way in solving this case.
The Shirt or whatever you choose to call it,has evolved just like other Nigerian attires. When has a shirt suddenly become your reason for dismissing people's attire?
I can give you a rundown of world clothings that evolved and still retained it's original identity.
You stick to one definition of African clothes! You are getting confused.

I neither said I was Ibo nor any ethnicity for that matter.

Can you define what an African attire is?

Would you call Ijaw/Urhobo/Itsekiri hats African hats?

somegirl1:
The onus is on you to prove that the attire is unAfrican.

How is the onus on me?

The onus should be on you to prove beyond reasonable doubt that European shirt is African.

Convince me.

Ilekeh:
Allow them, they're new to this.

I don't know what is going on. But I think it is unfair to celebrate one councillor out of the many, without giving the rest recognition.

BTW, anyone can be a councillor as long as you're an ardent follower of the party. You just need to bring people to the party and show interest in serving your ward. And when it's time to vote for councillors, because most people don't vote for it, your immediate family's votes and those of your friends within the same ward can win you the seat. Some do win with just 20 votes.

Councillorship is just community service with a few incentives (like allowance) for party loyals.

Hahahahaha!

Why celebrate only one councillor when you have about 40 of them in just London?

Celebrate all of them, this is the full list:

Councillor James Okosun
Councillor Adedamola Aminu
Councillor Donatus Anyanwu
Councillor Florence Eshalomi
Councillor Obajimi Adefiranye
Councillor Olurotimi Ogunbadewa
Councillor Crada Onuegbu
Councillor Rachel Onikosi
Councillor Olu Babatola
Councillor Susan Fajana-Thomas
Councillor Mercy Umeh
Councillor Sade Bright
Councillor James Ogungbose
Councillor Adegboyega Oluwole
Councillor Mabel Ogundayo
Councillor Endy Ezenwata
Councillor Aisha Eniola
Councillor Ernest Ezeajughi
Councillor Tayo Oladapo
Councillor Nneka Keazor
Councillor Ozzie Uzoanya
Councillor Joseph Ejiofor
Councillor Mrs Chika Amadi
Councillor Seyi Akiwowo
Councillor Charity Fiberesima
Councillor Joy Laguda MBE
Councillor Whitney Ihenachor
Councillor Yemi Osho

Phut:
Let me too ask you my own question. What is the upper body covering of Yoruba men called and what is its source?

I don't know and I don't think I'm interested in knowing.

Can we stick to the topic? Whatever grouse y'all have with Yoruba is your prerogative. My post was based on the thread and I haven't edited it. It is still on the first page.

Phut:
No I do not get you. Fashion is ever evolving and not static.
Changi is a style created by us. To follow your logic, the upper body covering worn by Yoruba men can be dismissed as a shirt, as well.

BTW, what is the upper body covering of Yoruba men, called? Abada/agbada is worn traditionally by Northerners as well as people from a lot of West African countries (mostly Muslim) such as Senegal. So where can we say is the source?

What has Yoruba got to do with me? Pose the question to Yoruba.

I never mentioned Ibo but since y'all have turned it to Ibo, I will ask again: is shirt an Ibo style? Whatever name you call it is irrelevant, that is a shirt and it is European.

Ihuomadinihu:
Still the same thing,you are still contradicting yourself.
We are not talking about blazer and suits . The crux of the matter is what is unAfrican about that Igbo attire?

Okay, since you insist, what is African about shirt?

Is shirt, especially the one worn by the Ibo groom, an African style?

Ihuomadinihu:
I wu nu onye ara. That's your favourite swear word!

Okay, nma can we call a truce?

Phut:
You contradict yourself. Something can't be of African origin, exclusively, if the fabric is borrowed

Most fabrics are borrowed, what makes it yours (own them) is how you use them to create styles that define you. Ghanaian Kente is Chinese fabric but they owned it based on the style they created with it which is Ghanaian. You can make the same argument for all European clothes because cotton isn't European.

The styles aren't African. Do you get my point now? Shirt is European, same for t-shirt, blazer, and suit.

Ihuomadinihu:
Unfortunately,you don't know anything about the Igbo you are writing. I've taught you well today. Feel free to ask questions concerning Igbos. Don't allow in ignorance!

Hahaha! Ndi ara.

I probably write better Ibo than you.

Ihuomadinihu:
Hahaha,iberibe umuaka!
You made a statement and in your little mind,you felt other attires were not African enough.

Onye apali. Anumanu.

Ihuomadinihu:
You categorically said that apart from Ivory coast and Ghana. The rest(Nigerian Igbo inclusive is unAfrican). That was where i came in and i had to tell you that Igbo attire is very African. Anybody is free to correct you and your assumption. Why are you insecure about corrections and criticisms?

Bring your A game when you are engaging me.

I said the rest aren't 100% African but the items I suggested aren't exclusive to one group. So why the need to get defensive when the Ibo isn't the only one wearing a shirt?

Ihuomadinihu:
Can you stop twisting your words? Everyone can see where you stated that Igbos were walking around naked and if suits and ties were of African origin.
I corrected your mistakes about labelling and mocking igbos cos i have seen other naked nigerians.
I already said you use derogatory words anyhow. Can't you carry on a diakogue without defamation of character. To the best of my knowlegde,this is a sign of immaturity. Why are you this insecure?

My post is still there on the first page (you quoted it and I can't edit your posted). Where in the post did I say Ibo?

You mentioned Ibo and I replied.

More prognosis(amnesia and mental instability already diagnosed): glaucoma.