 Religion / Re: My Journey From Islam To Atheism by Theproudinfidel(m): 12:38pm On Nov 26, 2016 |
Theproudinfidel:
you only read to reply sir, I never said women don't have any rights in Islam I only implied I found the codes of manu holding women in great high esteem more than the Quran. Nevertheless I need to point some things out Islam might have saved women at the time of the prophet, but not in this present age, women are kept at home, with the main purpose of taking care of domestic chores, they are not even allowed to go to school I know you might want to say am not truthful. The university of Cairo only opened her schools for girls in year 1955 while ummu Akura and Medina university don't admit females. they are just working towards it.
"No nation can rise to the height of glory unless your women
are side by side with you. We are victims of evil customs. It is a crime against
humanity that our women are shut up within the four walls of the houses as
prisoners." .........jinnah 1994 |
| Religion / Re: My Journey From Islam To Atheism by Theproudinfidel(m): 12:37pm On Nov 26, 2016 |
grownaira:
Of course you think differently from a normal Muslim kid. No wonder you think that a piece of paper containing texts of the Qur'an will not burn when set ablaze.
False information, always consumed by the ignorant and gullible once as usual. Bn Baz never said that, neither do any scholar in the Islamic Fatwa board have ever said that or even something similar to that.
Misconception.
Find below a little of what Islam prescribes regarding women.
Firstly, before the coming of Islam, the Arabs hate to see that a female child is born into dia family. Allah azza wa jal disapproves this.
"When news is brought to one of them, of (the Birth of) a female (child), his face darkens and he is filled with inward grief! With shame does he hide himself from his people because of the bad news he has had! Shall he retain her on (sufferance) and contempt, or bury her in the dust? Ah! What an evil (choice) they decide on?" [Noble Quran 16:58-59]
Further more, far from saving the girl's life so that she may later suffer injustice and inequality, Islam requires kind and just treatment for her. Among the sayings of Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him) in this regard are the following:
Whosoever has a daughter and he does not bury her alive, does not insult her, and does not favor his son over her, God will enter him into Paradise. [Ibn Hanbal, No. 1957]
The right of females to seek knowledge is not different from that of males. Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him) said:
"Seeking knowledge is mandatory for every Muslim". [Al-Bayhaqi]
Muslim as used here including both males and females.
As a wife, the Quran clearly indicates that marriage is sharing between the two halves of the society, and that its objectives, besides perpetuating human life, are emotional well-being and spiritual harmony. Its bases are love and mercy.
Among the most impressive verses in the Quran about marriage is the following.
"And among His signs is this: That He created mates for you from yourselves that you may find rest, peace of mind in them, and He ordained between you love and mercy. Lo, herein indeed are signs for people who reflect." [Noble Quran 30:21]
According to Islamic Law, women cannot be forced to marry anyone without their consent.
Ibn 'Abbas reported that a girl came to the Messenger of God, Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him), and she reported that her father had forced her to marry without her consent. The Messenger of God gave her the choice... (between accepting the marriage or invalidating it). [Ibn Hanbal No. 2469]
In another version, the girl said:
"Actually I accept this marriage but I wanted to let women know that parents have no right (to force a husband on them)" [Ibn Majah, No. 1873]
Besides all other provisions for her protection at the time of marriage, it was specifically decreed that woman has the full right to her Mahr (bride price), a marriage gift, which is presented to her by her husband and is included in the nuptial contract, and that such ownership does not transfer to her father or husband. The concept of mahr in Islam is neither an actual or symbolic price for the woman, as was the case in certain cultures, but rather it is a gift symbolizing love and affection.
Further more the Quran thus states:
"...And they (women) have rights similar to those (of men) over them, and men are a degree above them." [Noble Quran 2:228]
Such degree is Quiwama (maintenance and protection). This refers to that natural difference between the sexes which entitles the weaker sex to protection. It implies no superiority or advantage before the law. Yet, man's role of leadership in relation to his family does not mean the husband's dictatorship over his wife. Islam emphasizes the importance of taking counsel and mutual agreement in family decisions.
Over and above her basic rights as a wife comes the right which is emphasized by the Quran and is strongly recommended by the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him); kind treatment and companionship.
The Quran states:
"...But consort with them in kindness, for if you hate them it may happen that you hate a thing wherein God has placed much good." [Noble Quran 4:19]
Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him) said:
The most perfect believers are the best in conduct and best of you are those who are best to their wives. [Ibn-Hanbal, No. 7396]
As a mother, Islam considered kindness to parents next to the worship of God.
"And we have enjoined upon man (to be good) to his parents: His mother bears him in weakness upon weakness..." [Noble Quran 31:14] [See also Quran 46:15, 29:8]
Moreover, the Quran has a special recommendation for the good treatment of mothers:
"Your Lord has decreed that you worship none save Him, and that you be kind to your parents..." [Noble Quran 17:23]
A man came to Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him) asking:
O Messenger of God, who among the people is the most worthy of my good company? The Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) said, Your mother. The man said then who else: The Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) said, Your mother. The man asked, Then who else? The Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) said, Your mother. The man asked, Then who else? Only then did the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) say, Your father. [Al-Bukhari and Muslim]
A famous saying of the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) is: "Paradise is at the feet of mothers." [In An-Nasa'i, Ibn Majah, Ahmad]
"It is the generous (in character) who is good to women, and it is the wicked who insults them."
Let me stop here for now
you only read to reply sir, I never said women don't have any rights in Islam I only implied I found the codes of manu holding women in great high esteem more than the Quran. Nevertheless I need to point some things out Islam might have saved women at the time of the prophet, but not in this present age, women are kept at home, with the main purpose of taking care of domestic chores, they are not even allowed to go to school I know you might want to say am not truthful. The university of Cairo only opened her schools for girls in year 1955 while ummu Akura and Medina university don't admit females. they are just walking towards it. "No nation can rise to the height of glory unless your women are side by side with you. We are victims of evil customs. It is a crime against humanity that our women are shut up within the four walls of the houses as prisoners." .........jinnah 1994 |
| Religion / Re: My Journey From Islam To Atheism by Theproudinfidel(m): 9:42am On Nov 26, 2016 |
March 624: Al-Nadr bin al-Harith
Source: Ibn Ishaq, The Life of Muhammad, trans. A. Guillaume, (Oxford UP, 1955, 2004), pp. 136 (Arabic pages 191-92); 163 / 236; 181 / 262; 308 / 458.
March 624: Uqba bin Abu Muayt
Source: Bukhari, vol. 4, no. 2934; Muslim, vol. 3, nos. 4422, 4424; Ibn Ishaq, p. 308 / 458
March 624: Asma bint Marwan
Source: Ibn Ishaq, pp. 675-76 / 995-96.
April 624: Abu Afak
Source: Ibn Ishaq p. 675 / 995.
September 624: Kab bin al-Ashraf
Sources: Bukhari vol. 5, no. 4037; Muslim vol. 3, no. 4436; Ibn Ishaq 364-69 / 548-53; Tabari, The History of al-Tabari , Vol. VII, trans. W. Montgomery Watt (SUNYP, 1987), pp. 94-98 / 1368-73.
September (?) 624: Ibn Sunayna
Source: Ibn Ishaq p. 369 / 534.
July-August 625: A One-eyed Bedouin
Source: Tabari, vol. 7, pp. 149-50 / 1440-41; A
After January 630: One of Abdullah bin Katal’s two singing-girls
Source: Bukhari vol. 4, 3044; Ibn Ishaq, pp. 550-51 / 819.
Those are the poets who were killed during the Life of the prophet just because they utter what they feel. Islam has a totalitarian nature. To sin against Islam is to sin against God which is only punishable by death. Am aware that there are some scholars who use modern interpretation for the Quran, the might come up with any lumbo jumbo for all I care, but the history and the lives of Muslim all the world has shown it all.
I hope you are aware that ibn ishaq , ibn hisham and Al Tabari are the greatest source of the prophets biography
By their fruits we shall know them......jesus Christ 1 Like |
| Religion / Re: My Journey From Islam To Atheism by Theproudinfidel(m): 9:14am On Nov 26, 2016 |
abduljabbar4:
Liar! Can you tell us where such people were burnt, beheaded and stoned? You are just a christian that is trying to tarnish the image of Islam. Well let's play the game. I can play this thing like mad since I gave their names. google them and you will see what became of them. Am sure you don't expect to see them in Islamic history books. if what you meant is that nobody died because of Islam.. I suggest you tell us what happen to the three tribes of Jew staying in Medina at the time of the prophet? 1 Like |
| Religion / Re: My Journey From Islam To Atheism by Theproudinfidel(m): 8:45am On Nov 26, 2016 |
The metaphysics of God in Islam.
Everything mankind has ever achieved has been robbed from him and given to an imaginary God, except his freewill, and now even the free will is been taken......anonymous
"We must question the story logic of having an all-knowing all-powerful God, who creates faulty Humans, and then blames them for his own mistakes." - Gene Roddenberry
From my own studies the Quran never prove the existence of God, it only assumed it. There are various argument to prove the existence of God, and the philosophers and the theologians has done so much to on the subject. Which means I won't be talking about many of those arguments here except for two, since I don't want to lengthen the discussion
Morality and the concept of the soul.
On the gist of morality, every religion believes God and their religion to be the bases for world's morality. For how would the world look like if there is no God?, I think that is what prompt Voltaire when he remarked " if there were no God it would have been necessary to invent him" well am sorry to burst your bubble, a man desire is always terminated by his other desire, those who do not believe in God just have the same secular reason religious people have for not making offences. A man might decided not to have illicit sex because God said he shouldn't do it, while a man of secular thought might decide not to do it because of stds and his health, he might decide not to do it because of addiction, he might not do it because of his conscience if he is married and the fact that he wants to contemplate himself without feeling any remorse. If any of these secular reason would not make him stop this act, nothing I repeat nothing will make him stop not even the abstract concept of hell where the all loving God will make barbecue of our flesh. I guess this explain why in the west here Muslim's are still the largest consumer of alcohol and illicit sex despite the commandments in their book.
On the gist of the soul.
The Muslims believes that the zygote is given a soul by the two angel who visits him and write all his provisions on this earth as recorded in the fourth Hadith of imam Nawaawi's forty hadith. The soul differentiate us from inanimate objects like stones and rocks. It has even been given the credit of making us to think, laugh, and dream. Of course we all know this is not true with the advent of psychoanalysis and neuro science. Stone and rocks do not posses a brain and do not have neurons. It has even been known that when part of our brain is removed through surgeries it could have affect on the way we think, walk, it can even affect our personalities also. It is high time we leave all these old precept, in the words of Richard Dawkins religion will make us not contended with no understanding our world and ourselves. (emphasis mine)
The civilisation of the world will pass through three phase; superstitious, religion, and science, and since we are now in the era of science religion and all its precept should be deemed antiquated............Sigmund Freud (emphasis mine also) 1 Like 1 Share |
| Religion / Re: My Journey From Islam To Atheism by Theproudinfidel(m): 8:44am On Nov 26, 2016 |
Farmerforlife:
Regardless of how you claim to view Islam now, your statements concerning your past when you claimed to be a Muslim do not reflect the way a Muslim thinks. In any case, dont let me hold you back, you will not be the first to claim ex-Muslim. While I do know a number of ex-Muslims, they are generally honest enough not to pretend that they were knowledgeable or that they converted because of logical analysis. They confess that it was either due to laziness (prayer is always difficult for the hypocrite), or ignorance (coming from secular 'Muslim' parents, or gullible, looking for miracles for fast money up and down. well I guess it has to be so. Am a little different from a normal Muslim kid. A Muslim kid is made to cram the Quran and host other religious material at the expense of their ability to think critically and out out of the box, thats why even the so called scholars sound so ridiculous on some issue; I give u an example, ibn baz the late grand mufti of Saudi Arabia once said that females are not allowed to drive because cars produce a vibrating effect which is capable arousing the female sexually. lastly I stop thinking like every Muslim because I read a lot about other people's religion and found out Islam didn't stand out on some subject as it claims to be, a good example is that I found the codes of manu treating women more nice than quranic injuctions, and I respect the ideas of the Buddhist sanctity of life more astonishing than what we have in Islam. Having realise all these I came to conclusion that no religion has a monopoly on the truth |
| Religion / Re: My Journey From Islam To Atheism by Theproudinfidel(m): 7:30pm On Nov 25, 2016 |
Farmerforlife:
He is a christian pretending to be a Muslim. He thinks the way christians believe Muslims think, not the way Muslims really think. You cant fake being a Muslim, it is very obvious.
By the way, why would we be jittery? I personally am a Muslim by conviction. In my college days, I passed through a prolonged atheist stage myself where I was a convinced atheist, may Allah forgive me, so I do not see anything that an atheist would say today to convince me that God does not exist. They have no argument that I have not researched and refuted, except the one that I should tell God to appear to them. So this article is just a passing discussion.
Contrary to christians who go to the church with the most flashy miracles, our faith is not justified by those so-called incidents. Personally, I do not even believe that such things happened. As for healing, pastors don't heal either, but at least we Muslims don't go around using 419 healings to eat poor people's meagre wealth to sponsor an ostentatious lifestyle of yachts, mansions and private jets. religion consist of series of dogmas that makes people think their beliefs is the only sane way of viewing the world.........Henry Thomas huxley of course I would sound like a Christian since I don't view Islam the way I understand it before.... I suggest u read ibn Warraq's why I am not a Muslim and Ali dashti's twenty five years...since I might no be able to answer u fully 1 Like |
| Religion / Re: My Journey From Islam To Atheism by Theproudinfidel(m): 7:21pm On Nov 25, 2016 |
EazyMoh:
Grownaira and farmerforlife I'd have loved if you allowed him to finish his concocted story then we'd debunk it at once. Your replies may hive him a clue to try and correct his future lies.
Another issue is this I thought your Muslim people will just behead you at once when they found out you are now a proud infidel (as you call yourself) but instead they just called you names? That's interesting.
Anyway any Muslim reading this story knows the author was/is a Christian, because he's describing more of Christianity than Islam.
This is the part that gave you up as a Christian
Testimonies and Miracles in Islam?
Guy park well! well only few people still know my stance about religion in real life. For the records I still attend Arabic and Quranic class 1 Like |
| Religion / Re: My Journey From Islam To Atheism by Theproudinfidel(m): 6:52pm On Nov 25, 2016 |
grownaira:
For the bolded, Islam, if really was/is your religion have answers to all your questions. You probably don't know the answers and haven't asked. Allah azza wa jal, in Surah Al'Anbiya says (what can be translated as) "...so ask the people of the knowledge, if you do not know". So ask your questions here, and those with knowledge will answer you.
The answers I get from the Quran raise more problem than they can solve. A common example is how it is impossible to relate free will with God's pre ordination of things.
A primary one student in an Islamic school knows that the bolded above is not possible in this world. God does not reveal Himself to humans to be seen ra'yal ayn, not even to his Prophets and/or messengers. This forces one to wonder if if you even have at least a basic knowledge of Islam.
In Surah Al'A'raf, Allah azza wa jal says (what can be translated as ): "And when Moses arrived at Our appointed time and his Lord spoke to him, he said, "My Lord, show me [Yourself] that I may look at You." [ Allah ] said, "You can not see Me, but look at the mountain; if it should remain in place, then you will see Me." But when his Lord appeared to the mountain, He rendered it level, and Moses fell unconscious. And when he awoke, he said, "Exalted are You! I have repented to You, and I am the first of the believers.".
Similarly, in surah Al'An'am, he azza wa jal says (what can be translated as): "Vision perceives Him not, but He perceives [all] vision; and He is the Subtle, the Acquainted."
I never said I wanted to see Him maybe you should reread, I only want a personal encounter, at least God spoke to Moses. let your God differentiate himself by not speaking through books
For the bolded, Who believes that? Muslims I know do not believe in such. No where is it state in the Qur'an, Sunnah or any Islamic literature both classical and modern that the Qur'an does not burn. Bal, burning is one of the Islamically prescribed way of disposing damaged or worn out copies of the texts of the Qur'an. This, even a primary student in an Islamic school knows .
well let just say my anxiety caused that, I knew it was going to burn anyway, but what about the part where I ask God to prove himself through that.
No need for pictures. We all know that not only suratul yasin, even if it is the whole Qur'an, it will burn no doubt about that.
Really? Your choice though.
Patiently waiting for your to talk about the bolded.
of course I will....... I just need you to be patient am so busy
All these are strictly the author's opinion. It definitely does not hold water or makes sence, atleast to me.
The bolded is Muhammad, not Mahomet.
Finally, find below comments of some notable modern scholars with regards the Qur'an.
"A totally objective examination of it [the Qur'an] in the light of modern knowledge, leads us to recognize the agreement between the two, as has been already noted on repeated occasions. It makes us deem it quite unthinkable for a man of Muhammad's time to have been the author of such statements on account of the state of knowledge in his day. Such considerations are part of what gives the Qur'anic Revelation its unique place, and forces the impartial scientist to admit his inability to provide an explanation which calls solely upon materialistic reasoning."
Maurice Bucaille, THE QUR'AN AND MODERN SCIENCE, 1981, p. 18.
“It is impossible that Muhammad (peace be upon him) authored the Quran. How could a man, from being illiterate, become the most important author, in terms of literary merits, in the whole of Arabic literature?
How could he then pronounce truths of a scientific nature that no other human-being could possibly have developed at that time, an all this without once making the slightest error in his pronouncement on the subject?”
[Dr. Maurice Bucaille – author of “The Bible, the Quran and Science” 1978, p. 125]
“In making the present attempt to improve on the performance of my predecessors, and to produce something which might be accepted as echoing however faintly the sublime rhetoric of the Arabic Koran, I have been at pain to study the intricate and richly varied rhythms which – apart from the message itself – constitute the Koran’s undeniable claim to rank amongst the greatest literary masterpieces of mankind..
This very characteristic feature – ‘that inimitable symphony’, as the believing Pickthall described his Holy Book, ‘the very sounds of which move men to tears and ecstasy’ has been almost totally ignored by previous translators; it is therefore not surprising that what they have wrought sounds dull and flat indeed in comparison with the splendidly decorated original..”
[Arthur J. Arberry – “The Koran Interpreted”, London: Oxford University Press . 1964, p. x.]
"...in summary, the Qur'an describes not only the development of external form, but emphasises also the internal stages, the stages inside the embryo, of its creation and development, emphasising major events recognised by contemporary science."
"As a scientist, I can only deal with things which I can specifically see. I can understand embryology and developmental biology. I can understand the words that are translated to me from the Qur'an. As I gave the example before, if I were to transpose myself into that era, knowing what I do today and describing things, I could not describe the things that were described...
I see no evidence to refute the concept that this individual Muhammad had to be developing this information from some place... so I see nothing here in conflict with the concept that divine intervention was involved in what he was able to write..." E. Marshall Johnson, Professor and Chairman of the Department of Anatomy and Developmental Biology, and Director of the Daniel Baugh Institute, Thomas Jefferson University, Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, USA.
"... these Hadiths (sayings of Muhammad) could not have been obtained on the basis of the scientific knowledge that was available at the time of the 'writer'... It follows that not only is there no conflict between genetics and religion (Islam) but in fact religion (Islam) may guide science by adding revelation to some of the traditional scientific approaches... There exist statements in the Qur'an shown centuries later to be valid which support knowledge in the Qur'an having been derived from God.". Joe Leigh Simpson, Professor and Chairman of the Department of Obstetrics and Gynaecology, Baylor College of Medicine, Houston, Texas, USA.
"Thinking where Muhammad came from... I think it is almost impossible that he could have known about things like the common origin of the universe, because scientists have only found out within the last few years with very complicated and advanced technological methods that this is the case."
"Somebody who did not know something about nuclear physics 1400 years ago could not, I think, be in a position to find out from his own mind for instance that the earth and the heavens had the same origin, or many others of the questions that we have discussed here...
If you combine all these and you combine all these statements that are being made in the Qur'an in terms that relate to the earth and the formation of the earth and science in general, you can basically say that statements made there in many ways are true, they can now be confirmed by scientific methods, and in a way, you can say that the Qur'an is a simple science text book for the simple man. And that many of the statements made in there at that time could not be proven, but that modern scientific methods are now in a position to prove what Muhammad said 1400 years ago.". Alfred Kroner, Professor of the Department of Geosciences, University of Mainz, Germany.
"I find it very interesting that this sort of information is in the ancient scriptures of the Holy Qur'an, and I have no way of knowing where they would have come from. But I think it is extremely interesting that they are there and this work is going on to discover it, the meaning of some of the passages."
And when he was asked about the source of the Qur'an, he replied, "Well, I would think it must be the divine being.". William Hay, Professor of Oceanogprahy, University of Colorado, Boulder, Colorado, USA. As far as I am concerned, the so called scientific theory in the Quran is not enough for a prove for its divinity. Before Jesus and Muhammad was born Democritus, anaximander and theophrastus all speculated and propounded scientific facts that were confirmed by empirical researches in modern times. And they claim no divine inspiration for it. |
| Religion / Re: My Journey From Islam To Atheism by Theproudinfidel(m): 6:36pm On Nov 24, 2016 |
EazyMoh:
Heheheheh this is funny! OP please do not deviate from your story by bringing unnecessary historical conjectures, leave debate for Mu'tazilites, Kawareej, Boko Haram and whatever for another thread.
FYI what people are looking forward in this thread is a Hardmirrow kind of story, so please do not disappoint. you might not find that here pls. I have not personally been on that thread to see how it looks like, and I will tell my story just the way I want it 1 Like |
| Religion / Re: My Journey From Islam To Atheism by Theproudinfidel(m): 6:25pm On Nov 24, 2016 |
grownaira:
That is if he isn't making up a fictitious story humans will always see what they wanted to see........am not putting this up, am not a writer, and it hasn't been easy putting this together and am a biochemistry student who is still in session. |
| Religion / Re: My Journey From Islam To Atheism by Theproudinfidel(m): 6:21pm On Nov 24, 2016 |
EazyMoh:
Already I can see numerous discrepancies in his story, but let's allow him to land first. kindly named them sir |
| Religion / Re: My Journey From Islam To Atheism by Theproudinfidel(m): 6:20pm On Nov 24, 2016 |
The period of doubt Silence and soberity isn't empty it's full of answers.......... Anonymous Do not seek truth by men, first know the truth and you will know it's adherent.... Imam ali My moment of doubt started during a long holiday, we had in my third year at the university. Every member of the house will leave, which makes me the only person staying at home . Before people will start thinking am lonely and sad and probably suggest that for the main reason for my atheism, let it be known that am used to been alone and am obsessed with reading, most especially philosophical books. It is through these books and a large amount of self contemplation that the doubt became intense. I had so many questions my religion can not answer. I was convinced logically that there is no God but I held back because of testimonies of personal experience and miracles I had always heard. But on thinking deeper I realised I haven't witnessed any of these things first hand, I had only heard them from ear say, to put it in a more concise way I had never seen or experience anything that goes against the natural laws of nature. I prayed earnestly for God to revealed himself but I felt nothing, I became so worried and my anxiety increased. I later reasoned that the only option I had left to contact God is the Quran and I have heard so many occasions and boastful remarks about the Quran. It is believed that it won't burn when in contact with fire. On a hot afternoon in the corner of my room, I prayed and told God this is the last chance he had to prove himself to me. I tore the first page of suratul yasin roll it, and light it up. Am sure u can guess what happened next (might post the pictures if u guys need it). After that incident I resolved never to have anything to do again with God, religion, and spirituality again. I still held Islam and it's teaching In great esteem, but after the incident I began to see Islam from another perspective; it's totalitarian and intolerant nature, it's hostility against democracy, science and philosophy, the reduction of women to sex object, and the reduction of every contact between a male and a female to sex, the concept of good and evil, and of Paradise and hell and lastly the superiority and the infallibility of the Quran. I would definitely talk about all this aspect of Islam but the time is what am lacking. Am still a university student, so I have to share my time and do what is right in time. I just hope u can all bear with me "But admitting for the sake of a case, that something has been revealed to a certain person, and not revealed to any other person, it is revelation to that person only. When he tells it to a second person, a second to a third, a third to a fourth, and so on, it ceases to be revelation to all those persons. It is revelation to the first person only, and hearsay to every other, and consequently they are not obliged to believe it.
It is a contradiction in terms and ideas, to call anything a revelation that comes to us at second-hand, either verbally or in writing. Revelation is necessarily limited to the first communication—after this it is only an account of something which that person says was a revelation made to him; and though he may find himself obliged to believe it, it cannot be incumbent on me to believe it in the same manner; for it was not a revelation made to me, and 1 have only his word for it that it was made to him. When Moses told the children of Israel that he received the two tables of the commandments from the hands of God, they were not obliged to believe him, because they had no other authority for it than his telling them so; and I have no other authority for it than some historian telling me so. The commandments carry no internal evidence of divinity with them; they contain some good moral precepts, such as any man qualified to be a lawgiver, or legislator, could produce himself, without having recourse to supernatural intervention.
When I am told that the Koran was written in heaven and brought to Mahomet by an angel, the account comes too near the same kind of hearsay evidence and second-hand authority as the former. 1 did not see the angel myself and, therefore, I have a right not to believe it" Thomas Paine. The age of reason 3 Likes 1 Share |
| Religion / Re: My Journey From Islam To Atheism by Theproudinfidel(m): 1:22pm On Nov 24, 2016 |
alBHAGDADI:
It has been moved backed to the religion section. I believe that is fair enough cos the guy is no more a muslim, meaning that the thread should be in the religion section where his fellow atheists have a field day.
I believe the thread should grace the FP so as to balance up for the Christian to atheism thread that hit FP too. better.... now I shall continue |
| Religion / Re: My Journey From Islam To Atheism by Theproudinfidel(m): 7:13pm On Nov 23, 2016 |
kevoh:
I agree.
Are these type of Islamic sects still in existence. I've only heard of Sunni and shiite.
NB: Mods, respect yourselves. Do not move this thread to Islamic section Literately mutazili means those who stand apart or tore away. While zindiq or zindiqa means heretics and heresy Mutazilites and zindiqs were not really sects in the history of Islam, they were Muslim's that consist of group of people or individuals who approached Islam and it's teaching with reason....thereby formulating some ideas that were alien to the traditional views held by the fundamentalist Muslim. A great Example is the notion that purports the Quran to be the created word of God which is contrary to the views of the traditional Muslim who believed that the Quran is an unequivocal word of God which as always existed and was part of him. Subsequently the terms was later used to describe the freethinker, atheist, and the agnostics. The greatest of the zindiqs include; Djad ibn Diram ( Executed 742 ) Ibn Al muqaffa (ex. 760 ) Ibn Abi-l-Awja ( ex. 772 ) He expounded the concept of theodicy, accused the prophet of lying and believes in the eternity of the world Bashshar ibn-Burd(714/715) A great poet and a critic of the quran" Bashshar did in fact praise one of his own poetic products when he heard it recited by a singing girl in Baghdad as being better than the sural al-Hashr. The way of expression of the Koran was criticised and the similes found wanting. Al-Mubarrad tells of a heretic who ridiculed the parable in sura XXXVII.63 where the fruits of the tree Zakkum in hell are likened to the heads of devils. The critics say: "He compares the visible with the unknown here. We have never seen the heads of devils; what kind of a simile is this?" Al warraq Al-mutannabi Ibn Al-Rawandi Abu -Ala-Al ma'aar ☺ the blind poet... My favourite I thank my stars for the gift of democracy and fundamental Human Rights. For if I am in a Muslim country I would have been killed for apostasy by now because of the totalitarian nature of Islam. Every Muslim believes Africans should not be westernised, I strongly believe we shouldn't be easternised too. 2 Likes 2 Shares |
| Religion / Re: My Journey From Islam To Atheism by Theproudinfidel(m): 3:48pm On Nov 23, 2016 |
am still coming to that sir........ will continue when am back from my Arabic class 1 Like |
| Religion / My Journey From Islam To Atheism by Theproudinfidel(m): 3:29pm On Nov 23, 2016 |
The proud infidel My journey from faith, to agnosticism and finally atheism. "children are taught that it is a virtue to accept statement without adequate evidence, which leaves them a prey to quakes of every kind in later life, and makes it difficult for them to accept the methods of thought which are successful in science"_ J. B. S Haldane "when the effect of emotional convictions has subdued the man of reason will look for logical evidences for his religious beliefs”_Friedrich Nietzsche It is often said that there are two kind of books, those that makes you think and those that makes you wonder. This is by no means a book but an essay that will make you do both. In my early twenties, having lived the most of my life as a Muslim who believed in Islam and it's teaching as the only guided path to paradise in the afterlife, I fell into a deep religious crisis which made me doubtful and renounce everything concerning God, religion and spirituality. I knew I disappointed a lot of people, many called me names; crazy, amnesic, schizophrenic many even say I have forgotten myself. I ignore everything since my aim is the truth. Friedrich Nietzsche once said that the seeker of truth must not only be able to love his enemies, he must be able to hate his friends too. Don't let me bore you with my emotions, they will only lengthen the discussion, am here to tell u my story to atheism, ride with me. Just like every kid that is given birth to, I was indoctrinated into my parent's religion; a Muslim, I was made to believe that there was no God except Allah and Muhammad is his messenger, I was made to believe that the Quran is an unequivocal word of God which was to be obeyed literarily and that the prophet and his traditions exhibit a mode of life of an utmost degree of morality that can bring humans to the happiness they so desire. I first came in contact with Christianity when I was twelve through the the works of the great Muslim orator and a scholar of comparative religion studies, who gave Islam and Muslim's a great weapon of conversion, which include series of arguments and the use of logic and reason. I was a proponent of his works, until I came to realise he has no carnal knowledge of the Christian faith. From the perspective of a philosopher religious dogmas and beliefs cannot conform with logic and reason hence why they were named dogmas. He(Ahmed deedat) applied his reason and logic in interpreting the Bible and it's teachings thereby going against every doctrine the church and clergy men stood for. He forgot the Muslim fundamentalist would not allow the same thing be done to the Quran and it's teachings. The cases of the mu'tazilites and the zindiqs are worth mentioning; they consist of certain sects and individual who approached the Quran with reason and logic then came to some conclusions that were against the teaching of the orthodox Muslims, of course these sects and individuals were not free since Islam is practically against freethinking and reason, they were subsequently executed, burned, crucified, decapitated and in worst scenario beheaded. Continued here: https://www.nairaland.com/3481917/journey-islam-atheism/1#51337684 7 Likes 2 Shares |
