₦airaland Forum

Is that the best you can offer Why did you jump all my previous answers

I'm through now.

philfearon: As Jesus was leaving the World,he charged them{apostles} to propagate the trinity when he told them toMathew28:19 "Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations,baptizing them in the name Of The Father,and of The Son,and Of The Holy Spirit"....Recognising The Three Persons of God!
I charge you today to do same too,making the unbelievers believe......
Good reading

Sir, i also disagree with you here in view of the following evidences:-
*.1. `Peake's Commentary on the Bible' published since 1919, is universally welcomed and considered to be a standard reference book for the students of the Bible. Commenting on the above verse it records; "This mission is described in the language of the church and most commentators doubt that the trinitarian formula was original at this point in Mt.'s Gospel, since the NT elsewhere does not know of such a formula and describes baptism as being performed in the name of the Lord Jesus (e.g. Ac. 2:38, 8:16, etc.)."
*.2. Tom Harpur, author of several bestsellers and a former professor of New Testament, writes in his book `For Christ's Sake'; "All but the most conservative of scholars agree that at least the latter part of this command was inserted later. The formula occurs nowhere else in the New Testament, and we know from the only evidence available (the rest of the New Testament) that the earliest Church did not baptise people using these words - baptism was "into" or "in" the name of Jesus alone."
*.3. "And Peter said to them, `Repent, and let each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins;...'" (Acts 2:38). It is most unlikely that apostle Peter would have disobeyed the specific command of Jesus Christ for baptising in the three names and baptized them in the name of Jesus Christ, alone.
*.4. The above command (authentic or otherwise) does not indicate that the three names mentioned in the formula are or were, "co-equal" in their status, as well as, were "co-eternal" in the time frame, to conform with the acknowledged `Doctrine of Trinity'.

philfearon: InIsaiah9:6 "For to us a child is born,to us a Child is given;and the government will be upon his shoulder,and his name will be called:'WONDERFUL COUNSELLOR, MIGHTY GOD,EVERLASTING FATHER,PRINCE OF PEACE"

There is nothing wrong with ‘wonderful counselor’, ‘prince of peace’. But “everlasting father”, “mighty God” in the Divine sense? No!
First, note that, in the Bible, the term "everlasting" or "forever" is often used as a figurative term and does not necessarily mean in its literal sense, e.g., It says; "and David My servant shall be their prince forever." Ezekiel 37:25.
The same goes for the use of the term "Father". It does not necessarily mean; "the Heavenly Father" (God), or the biological.
Joseph is called a father to Pharaoh. Genesis 45:8, Abraham is called the father of a multitude of nations. Gen. 17:5, and Job is called the father of the needy. Job 29:16. Again by theologians alluding to Psalms 110;
Jesus is called a Priest or a Father of the priesthood, forever.
Now, how about the phrase; “mighty God”?, let me clear that issue in advance. “mighty God” or "Almighty God" (in some versions) is a deliberate mistranslation of the Hebrew phrase "El-Gibbor" used by Isaiah. The Hebrew phrase for "God Almighty" is "El-Shadday". In the famous Hebrew and Chaldee Dictionary by James Strong the word "gibbowr" or short "gibbor" (1368), is translated as; warrior, tyrant:-champion, chief, giant, man, mighty (man, one), strong (man), valiant man. The word "shadday" (7706), is translated as, the Almighty. If one was to read the verses preceeding the quoted Isaiah 9:6, the on going subject there is; "at the battle of Midian", and "the booted warrior in the battle tumult"
Notwithstanding the mistranslation. If it is accepted that the prophesy was saying that Jesus would be “Almighty God,” then that would contradict many explicit statements in the Bible including those made by Jesus himself like:
“And this is eternal life, that they may know You (i.e Father), the ONLY TRUE GOD, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.” John17:3
Jesus would not allow anyone to even call him “good” let alone “God”
Now behold, one came and said to him, ‘Good Teacher, what good thing shall I do that I may have eternal life?’ so he (Jesus) said to him, ‘why do you call me good?’ ‘No one is good but One, that is, God. But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments’ Matthew19:16-17
Jesus also said: “The first of all the commandmets is: “Hear O Israel, the LORD OUR God, the LORD is one” Mark 12:29. He also said: “Do not cling to me, for I have not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren and say to them”, “I am ascending to MY Father and your Father, and to MY God and your God” John20:17. Notice how Jesus used “OUR GOD” and “MY GOD” in the last to verses. In my next post I will respond to the last verse you posted (i.e Matthew 28:29.

philfearon: In Genesis1:26,God says: "Let Us make Man in Ourimage, after Our likeness....Emphasis on the bolded words....Now who were God referring to in that Passage? Was it His angels?

Below is an extract from a commentary for the above verse, written by the editors of King James Version (The Hebrew-Greek Key Study Bible, 6th edition):
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"The Hebrew word for God is `Elohim' (430), a plural noun. In Genesis 1:1, it is used in grammatical agreement with a singular verb `bara' (1254), created. When plural pronouns are used, "Let us make man in our image after our likeness," does it denote a plural of number or the concept of excellence or majesty which may be indicated in such a way in Hebrew? Could God be speaking to angels, the earth, or nature thus denoting Himself in relation to one of these? Or is this a germinal hint of a distinction in the divine personality? One cannot be certain."
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Having written "One cannot be certain", the editors try to advocate the theory of Jesus, as the "essential (internal) unity of Godhead."
The response to your question, as well as, to the commentators remark; "One cannot be certain", lies not very far, but in the next verse (Genesis 1:27), which reads; "And God created man in His own image,..." This statement tells us that the actual act of creation when performed, was performed by "Him" and in "His" image and not by "Us" in "Our" image. The plural pronouns used are pronouns of majesty not of number. This is common in semetic languages (like Hebrew, Arabic etc). If you have read the Quran before you will see that in many places God used “We” to refer to himself. Though he also used singular pronouns in other verses. You see, the problem with most Trinitarian christians is that, they used to conveniently ignore all other relevant EXPLICIT verses in the Bible which does not support their innovation and look for some imaginary ones. Let me give you another EXPLICIT verse in which Jesus himself refer to the Creator with a singular pronoun! Why did you ignore it? "And he (Jesus) answered and said unto them, `Have you not read, that He which made them at the beginning made them male and female." (Matthew 19:4).

philfearon: InExodus3:14 "God said to Moses 'I AM WHO I AM'.And he said,'say this to the people of Israel,I AM has sent me to you"...
Jesus also referred to Himself as "I AM" in John8:58 when He said:"Jesus said to them,'Most assuredly,i say to you,before Abraham was,I AM

Jesus also said; "I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins. (John 8:24, K.J.V.). But none of these mean Jesus was claiming to God. Even if Jesus alluded to the Father's name when he said "I AM" does that make him the Father? It still doesnt make him the father. because that will atleast contradict the same trinity doctrine you are defending. Remember in trinity, the father is not the son, the son is not the holy spirit and the holy spirit is not the father etc,
Again Jesus said; "...I am he, and that I do nothing of myself; but as my Father hath taught me, I speak these things." (John 8:28). God of Moses that claimed "I AM THAT I AM" had no instructor or tutor, and, needed no tutoring. If God had an instructor or an educator, then what would you call that entity? God's mentor or boss??
If you understood Jesus' statement above as that he existed before Abraham therefore he is God. This is wrong. it is still not a proof that Jesus is God, because Angels have existed even before Adam but they are still not God(s). When Jews were doubtful about the identity of a particular blind beggar who had been healed by Jesus, the blind beggar - who was no more blind, kept saying; "I am he" (John 9:9, K.J.V.). Does that make the blind beggar, God? Further more, the beggar when questioned about Jesus who had healed him, replied to Jews; "And he said, "He is a prophet." (John 9:17). So you see, the Jews were waiting for a messiah (who is a prophet) not God Almighty himself.
^^^
@OP, Pls bear with me sir, i didn't run away o. I'm using phone, yesterday i had problem with the ba3. But i will complete everything today. Pls wait 4 me 2 finish b4 u reply.tnx

philfearon: Mathew9:2 "Some men brought to Him a paralysed man,lying on a mat.When Jesus saw their faith,he said to the man,' take heart son,Your sins are forgiven"

. . .All power is GIVEN unto me in heaven and in earth. Matthew 28:18
I can on mine OWN SELF do nothing . . .John5:30
this means that he could not do anything (including forgiving sins of course) except if the Father give him the power to do so. So its possible God gave him the power to forgive sins. If you say only God can forgive sins, but Jesus also gave his disciples the power to forgive sins as par the Bible. So are they also God(s)?
To be continued..

philfearon: You have to look at the World around You..God has made His three in one nature known throughout creation,so we can Understand Him..

Actually most of the things God created in nature are in pairs. Why then don't you say God is 2 in 1 but 3 in 1?

philfearon: The universe has three parts:Time,Space and matter,

are they the same? Can you substitute time with space or matter?

philfearon: Time has three Parts:The past,present and Future..

Can these 3 co-exist at the same time? Can we be in the past, present, and future all at once? Only one of these can exist at a time, therefore time is unlike the trinity.

philfearon: Matter{the atom}:each atom is made of protons,neutrons and electrons,
Fruit has three parts:the seed,the fruit and skin..
Earth has three parts:The core,Mantel and Crust..
Our environment has three parts:Land,sea and air,but one environment..
Plants has three parts:the roots,stem and leaves..
Humans has three core essentials:Blood,air and Water..
Human body has three parts:The Head{From the Neck Upwards},the Torso{from the Shoulders to the Pelvis} and the legs{from the pelvic girdle downwards}...

None of the above proves trinity! Are they all one in the sense you can substitute one with another? Is water the same with blood or air in the same way christians claim of trinity? None of the examples you gave are co-equal, co-eternal, uncreated and of the same substance.

philfearon: This is finally the perfect example as to how the Trinitarian christians like me believe God has revealed Himself to Mankind:
Take a look at H20=Water..Put a pan of Water on the stove and heat it..The liquid turns to steam{gaseous state}..Capture the steam and it becomes liquid again when cooled{liquid state}..Freeze the same water in the liquid form,and it turns to ice{solid state}..Keep it again,and it turns to liquid again..
But each form is still H20{water},and every Form has a different use;But still,its all H2O

Here on your own admission, the three forms of water cannot co-exist at the same time. You only convert one form to another by raising or lowering temperature. But this does not fit the trinity since it is said that all the 3 distinct ‘persons’ in the Godhead ‘co-exist’ at the same time.

philfearon: John10:30 "I and The Father are One"
Also,John10:38 "But if i do,though you do not believe in me,believe the Works,that You may Know and believe that the Father is in Me,and i in Him"

If the above verses mean Jesus is God then John 17:20-22 could also mean his disciples are God(s): “That they may be ONE as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they may also be ONE in us...”
“I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in ONE...”

philfearon: "If You have Seen Me,You have Seen The Father"

Yes, because he was sent by the father. But it doesnt mean he is the father. “No man hath seen God at any time” John 1:18
“(God) whom no man hath seen, nor can see.” Timothy 6:16

It is true that we cannot really understand the nature of God. But this is why we should be careful what we attribute to the Almighty. We should only believe in and practice what he taught us in the scriptures. God did say several times in the Bible that he is one and there is none else. Could he have said it any better? Why did God had to wait for people to hold ‘councils’ and decide what his ‘true’ nature was centuries after his sent agent had left? If God has simply told people that he is a ‘3 in 1’ God all your water and ice examples would not have been necessary. None of the verses you quoted proves the father, the son and the spirit are ‘co-equal, co-eternal and of the same substance.’ in my next post I'll reply to each one of them.

Atleast 99.9%+ believers in Allah are merciful. You shouldn't judge the whole believers with the action of a misguided few. Islam like any other religion has its both good and bad eggs.

Hmm,,anti-christian world indeed. As if the christians themselves do tolerate followers of other religions - especially muslims. Don't you also tag them ‘ignorant’, ‘brainwashed’ and all that you complained of? I pray that you see my comment b4 ur ‘tolerant’ christian mods hide it or ban me just for saying this.