₦airaland Forum

leo97:
Esan North East
Ward 5, Unit 1

APC - 94
PDP - 108

#EdoDecides. Really sad that my people could sell their vote because of 2k. So sad. I was not expecting APC to get significant vote from edo Central. However, PDP is doing very well in Edo North.

Edo north? You must be joking
And how come in all your posts, Pdp is winning in all wards, polling units and local government

Thanks for the reply but there are so many loopholes which I will be addressing. I know I wasn't the one that directly asked you so you can chose to continue the conversation with me or not

analice107:
Okay, let me start by by citing other instances.

Remember God is the Alpha and the Omega. He knows the end from the beginning.

He knows who we will all be and how we will react to our environments.

He had seen Ismael's end before he was born. (Terrorist).

It is true God knows all but that doesn't mean that God punishes offenders even before they commit the sin. If this is your point, then you will be contradicting the unconditional love of the Christian God
In Mathew Jesus tells us that
"Truly I say to you, unless you are converted and become like children, you will not enter the kingdom of heaven” Mathew 18vs3
This gives the idea that children are innocent. The op tries to make us understand that Ishmael was cursed even before he was given birth to. Hear him

12 “He will be a wild donkey of a man; his hand will be against everyone and everyone’s hand against him, and he will live in hostility toward all his brothers.” [/color]

Did God cursed Ishmael Seeing what is happening today. You will conclude that The so-called Arab people are cursed through Ishmael they kill others and also kill themselves. People hate them because they hate others. They like violence. Thier children live and grow up in a violent environment. They see nothing wrong in it. What exactly is this statement from God . Curse or blessing?

Now lets see other characters God saw into their future and kept them back from his covenant.

Keeping people from covenants is different from cursing. If you are cursed by God, that's how you will behave. You can't help it.
Are you implying God is cursing a little baby in his mother's womb for sins he will commit in the future.

Isaac had two sons, Esau and Jacob. why didn't God take Esau?

Esau was easily given to wantonness. He was carefree and didn't place value on sacred things.

With the wave of the hand he threw away his birthright. To us humans, we may take that lightly, but a man who can give up his very life for instant gratification shd not be trusted with something that Precious.

Check Esau's Family, and check Jacobs family.

Jacob was together. Esau was scattered.

One of his offspring (Amalek also from a concubine, named Timna) became to Israel(Jacobs descendants) exactly what the descendants of Ismail are to the descendants of Isaac today.

To taunt his parents for blessing Jacob, Esau went wild marrying from the tribes they were forbidden to marry from. He lived without minding who his father was and how he was raised.

God had seen that Jacob can instruct his children to follow the God of his father Abraham.

Jacob had 12 Sons. why didn't God Choose the first 4?

1. Reuben the first had woman issues. He had sex with his father's concubine, and inherited a curse. Would he have been able to resist Mrs Portipher? hmmm.


Simeon had Temperament Issues. Him and his brother Levi, attacked and killed a Scheme Prince, killed the king and all the strong men therein, because Scheme had raped Dina their sister then came to marry her. Would they have been able to forgive their brethren if they were the ones sold into slavery by their blood?

Would they have allowed Jacob and the entire family to migrate and join him as a Prime minister?

Now that they had power, wouldn't they have called for their evil brothers to be executed for their crimes?

With that kind of temper, hmmm.

with that kind of attitude, would they have been able to submit and learn administration in Potioher's house?

would they have maintained a right attitude haven been lied against and unjustly thrown into prison?

Judah, had already been predestined to carry the Kingly sceptre, so, was exempted.

Then down to the second to the last, "Joseph".

Check all the vises his brothers had in him, you'd find none. God saw him from afar and choose him to go to Egypt to preserve his people.

Mrs Potipher was readily, presently yearning for what Reuben snuck to steal. but Joseph resisted her. Even when, to today's youth, that would have seemed like an opportunity to hit it big.

If Joseph was a contemporary Nigerian boy, He would ve dived into that offer, seeing a way of manipulating his way out of slavery. But he said No.

It landed him in prison, yet his attitude was still pleasant. when gloomy, he asked why.

God knows who will succumb to pressure and those who will say, "If i perish, I perish".


God knows who will stand and carry his name to the end.

With all due respect this is a different case. I am sure if God denied them anything, it's because of their actions or their ways. But here Ishmael is cursed as a child. I hope you get the difference?

Ismail started manifesting his terroristic tendencies at a very tender age. Though raised in Abraham's home, godliness didn't rub on him.

Except he was cursed even before he was born as pointed out by the op here

11 “You will give birth to a son. You shall name him Ishmael, for the Lord has hear of your misery.”


12 “He will be a wild donkey of a man; his hand will be against everyone and everyone’s hand against him, and he will live in hostility toward all his brothers.” [/color]

You confidently said "Ishmael started manifesting his terroristic tendencies at a very tender age"
With regards to your comment above, I would like to demand the following :
1. What are these terroristic tendencies he manifested at a tender age?
2. Support your answers with biblical verses.

Even if you are right he did commit these crimes as a kid, are you saying that if such a kid dies in such act, he will be punished by God?

And the LORD said, Shall I hide from Abraham that thing which I do;

For I know him, that he will command his children and his household after him, and they shall keep the way of the LORD, to do justice and judgment; that the LORD may bring upon Abraham that which he hath spoken of him.
Genesis:18: 17, 19

Have you asked yourself why Ismail turned away from following the God of his father Abraham?

Someone will tell me that, him and his mother were sent away back to Egypt. But that is hardly the case, because when he grew up, he came back to his father. We are told that when Abraham died Isaac and Ismail buried him.


And his sons Isaac and Ishmael buried him in the cave of Machpelah, in the field of Ephron the son of Zohar the Hittite, which is before Mamre;
Genesis:25:9

He couldn't have buried his father while on exile.

Esau later married his daughter, this also shows that Ismail lived together with them.

I am sorry this doesn't still justify why an infant was cursed.

Bottomline. God saw the terrorist in him and refused to let him carry his legacy and covenant.

Except that wasn't all, he was cursed too even before conceived.
It is understandable that God refused him to carry his legacy because he saw what he would become. But does that also justify the curse If kids are not accountable until they reach an age they can make decisions for themselves?
IF so, how do you justify unconditional love of God if He curses kids before they are born?
analice107 I hope you address these concerns

Slymonster:
auchi u mean?lol I hail your lies o

Hahaha. Don't mind these liars. AUCHI avhiele ughiole south ibie.......and surrounding are Places that hate Pdp the most. With all that oshiomhole did for AUCHI, Pdp won't even breathe there

Maski87:
But if you wear pant how will a snake see your vagina in the first place

When you dey piss, you no dey commot your pant?

plappville:
Dont you have anything else doing apart from visiting NL? I come here at my spare time ok. If u like remind me 1000 x i can only reply u when am chanced.

Oh trust me, I have alot to do unlike many of your friends and praise singers. Check the dates of the two quotes. There's a day interval between them.
BTW you are yet to give the reply to the question I asked

plappville:
Maybe thesame reason why God was on Sarah's side when She asked Abraham to send Hagar and Ishmael away.

I didn't ask for the reason why God was on Sarah side. This isn't about sides. I simply asked you Why Was Ismael cursed? Let me rephrase it
What was Ishmael 'S crime that lead to him be cursed?

Maski87:
But whythese Ghana women no dey like wear pant?

Wetin bring pant matter for this issue. How many Ghanaian women you don check to see say them no wear pant?
Wetin concern you with women pant wearing?

Keneking:
.....fetish priest for spiritual intervention and herbal treatment

So with the oil money, Ghana does not have modern medical centres in the rural areas as well as toilet for shotput

John Mahama sef This government sef

Its been long that snake story hit....fp, I am expecting back to back story now

This isn't mahama's fault ooo. The husband chose to go to a herbalist instead of a hospital. There isn't any part of the op that indicates that a hospital wasn't nearby.

MadCow1:
Lalasticlala must know about that snake..

Lol. There isn't a time I see your moniker and I don't laugh or smile.
How did you end up with madcow? Lol

Teniolasmart:
lasticlacla be rushing to trend now............................this should make front page..........................but where d pix na

Will put one soon

Be cautious when peeing

Lalasticlala what do you think

A 44-year-old woman named Eyii and a resident of Kparekpare a suburb of Dambai, Krachi East constituency met her ultimate death after a snake bit her vagina.

According to the husband of the deceased, Aziagome Akuvi who’s a peasant farmer in the community, he and his wife were returning home from their farm when she asked him to wait as she attends to natures call in the bush.

He continued that while patiently waiting for his late wife who was squatting and easing herself, he heard her suddenly shouting for help only to rush to her aid to see her bitten by a snake at her vagina (c*litoris).

The troubled and confused husband sensing that the snake bit on his wife was a spiritual attack, in a bid to save the life of his dying wife, then put her on his bicycle and rushed her to a fetish priest for spiritual intervention and herbal treatment.

However she unfortunately didn’t survive the snake bite and later died at the fetish priest’s home.

https://lazyfailure.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/Snake_In_The_Grass.jpg


Source: http://mobile.ghanaweb.com/GhanaHomePage/NewsArchive/Woman-dies-after-snake-bites-her-vagina-472435

fullofregrets
Incase of next time, keep your mouth shut especially if you weren't asked.

tintinabulation dey vex.. ...please take it easy ooo
Ma binu

lexiconkabir:
@bold obviously yes, myself saw this from al-Shawkaani and ibn uthaymeen may Allaah have mercy on them both.

Another thing is, in Islam any knowledge that does not have isnaad to the sahabas is nonsense, so a scholar refers to other scholars in the past that in turn refers to the ones before their time and so on to the sahabas....our religion has isnaad.

So will I be correct if I say, these past scholars can't be corrected as they are infallible since all study must agree to theirs?

lexiconkabir:
I see




That has been the traditional qualities from the time of the salafs.




To me i see him as a scholar, zakir naik denies that some verses of the Quran were not abrogated by later verses, when he is asked questions about islam, instead of putting it the way it is, he will sugarcoat it such that the answer becomes different from the well known ruling.

Thanks brother for clearing that up and for your patience.
But is there a reference to back up these qualities. Or it was careful look at the sahabas and the tabi'in that these qualities were documented.

Jazakallahu khairan

lexiconkabir:
Because i said zakir naik is not a scholar?

Yeah And also because someone called the likes of mufti menk, zakir Naik are innovators and call to hellfire

Anyway, these are the qualities of a scholar;

What are the source(s) of these qualities? Where they defined by some other scholars? If so, how were they regarded as scholars?
Do you regard mufti menk a scholar? If not, which of these qualities does he or zakir Naik lack?

kelvee:
http://www.vanguardngr.com/2016/09/buhari-plunged-nigeria-recession/

Majority of the points here are so stupid.

APC Federal Government spokespersons – Garba Shehu, Femi Adesina, Lai Mohammed, name them – have been blaming the nation’s woes on “16 years of Peoples Democratic Party, PDP, rot”. They said they did not expect the “depth” of the rot they met. Vice President Yemi Osinbajo files in, and blames PDP Federal Government’s failure to save for the rainy day, forgetting that the APC sponsored its governors to oppose Dr. Ngozi Okonjo-Iweala’s proposal for us to save when we had an unrivalled oil boom. They also opposed President Goodluck Jonathan’s plans to deregulate the downstream sector of the economy to free up funds to attack our infrastructural deficit. Jonathan, not being “a Pharaoh” (as he put it) weakly buckled to acts which the opposition deliberately deployed to ensure his downfall.

How many times will this false statement be debunked. Sponsored or not FG spent from the account before the governors requested for their share.
Who are these "they". In GEJ era, Pdp dominated everywhere. So I don't know how Apc was able to sponsor Pdp governors to sabotage a Pdp government.

President Umaru Yar’Adua played a statesman’s trump card through the Amnesty deal, which ended the militancy in the Niger Delta, thus creating a new impetus for us to enjoy more oil boom till the tail end of 2014. When Jonathan assumed office, he embarked on massive infrastructure upgrades nationwide, and this manifested in our airports, roads, rail, investment in power, education (especially tertiary) [b]and of course, democratic reforms that made it possible for a powerful opposition to arise and sweep him from office.[b]

If he was doing such a good work, he would still be the president of Nigeria

Of course, there was massive corruption during the PDP years, but tell me in which regime since our independence when there was no corruption, even this current Buhari regime? The only difference is that the “enemies” are being targeted, while “friends and acolytes” are being shielded.

Yeah, Pdp should have targeted their enemies too and perhaps they would have recovered some money too. ...oh... .wait. ....they were more interested in exchange of Ghana must go to keep their enemies in check.

So, yes, the recession was caused by our failure to save for a rainy day, but it was a collective failure of the nation. Jonathan cannot escape the blame because as President, he should have stamped his foot down and done what was best for the country, rather than dance to the tune of every Tom and Harry just for him to be elected for a second term.

Yeah, he should have. If he had, we wouldn't be in this mess.

Yes, we are in recession because of the renewed militancy in the Niger Delta. But who caused it? Before Buhari came in, we had massive oil theft. But when he assumed office and came at governance as if on a vengeance mission, the militancy resumed.

Vengeance mission or not, the militants were ready to cause trouble for anyone who isn't theirs. Have you even seen their demands?

Buhari did not realise the harm he was inflicting on the psyche of the nation when he propounded his “97%/5%” formula, which went against the Federal Character principle in the constitution. He used it to divide the country along political party, religious, regional, ethnic and sectional lines, favouring his kinsmen and supporters while neglecting those who did not support him.

This is the part of this post I party agree with. Buhari was reckless with that statement of 5%. In my opinion it was insensitive. But it's important to point out that it was Pdp that started this divisive politics.

Not only that, he mobilised the agencies of state security to go after his perceived opponents in a one-sided anti-corruption war which only emphasised the return of allegedly looted funds. He did not make it a holistic affair. Some individuals who felt the system was blindly and vengefully after them returned to militancy and plunged the economy deeper into recession. Security threats expanded, from Boko Haram alone in 2015 to new fronts (the Niger Delta Avengers, armed Fulani herdsmen, Indigenous People’s of Biafra/MASSOB protests, and the Shiites uprising in Kaduna).

How mischievous this writer is. So he is suggesting that Buhari anti corruption war lead to Niger delta, Fulani herdsmen, ipob, massob protest, Shiites uprising.
This miscreant would give any excuse (reasonable or not) just to put a stop to Buhari anti corruption fight.
Buhari, ride on and deal with them. And if you mess up and are voted out of office, I pray and hope the president that comes in focuses his anti corruption fight in Apc. That way, each government will sit up knowing fully well there will be a reckoning. The winner will be the masses.

udatso:
Plappville
Let's assume you are right (God cursed Ishmael).
Why was he cursed by God? What crime did he commit?

Quoting for the second time because I am yet to get a reply to this question. Plappville please help answer this question

Lexiconkabir. Jazakallahu khairan for your reply so far. I do have some questions for you.
Who is a scholar in Islam?
What are the qualities of a scholar?
What are the requirements for been a scholar?

shala01:
If u ask this question than you are not in n edo state. if the election had held of 10th, APC would have suffered a humiliating defeat. The extension has help APC to some extent. the gap is reduced.

I am not even in Nigeria. It's difficult to tell what could/couldn't have Happened since we can't see the future. It is true the pastor has gained some popularity but I doubt if it's enough to win the election.
Personally I hate the name Pdp and all what they stand for in Edo state. (in Edo state)
I hope the election is free and fair, no rigging violence before during and after

shala01:
There is something in that governor house that makes whoever wins ignore his backers. if iyamu wins, the igbenedions will be irrelevant. What ever happened after the swearing in will be the responsibility of the governor. If iyamu mess up, he will be given the luck treatment.

Lol. maybe you are right. But do you think majority of edos are planning to take that gamble?

Aiholi
It should be titled most common currency denomination
Op take note

shala01:
bro no bi smoke, na recession

Hahaha. You are funny. ...... But you should know that having the igbenedions back to sit with their stealing habits, You would wish we still had this recession.

shala01:
APC don't pay dis guy to demarket that PDP pastor. him keep mk edolite shame oshiomole finish before him talk. I still believe this non sense coming out of the month of this unless man will not affect iyamu's chance, for APC need to be send out not just out of Edo state but the whole Nigeria

Whatever it is you smoke, quit it. It's bad for you

Lescalier:
PDP - CHANGE THE CHANGE

Not interested in the change that almost killed Edo state in the hands of Pdp. After Apc Candidate is declared Winner, I will be here to laugh at all of you.

I lol each time people come online and ignorantly speak as if they are from Edo state. No matter how poorly oshiomole has performed, his poor performance is still far better than the Pdp governors in Edo state combined.
There is no way Pdp is getting back to that sit again. For what they have done to us in the past, may God continue to punish them

Weah96:
So Jesus was a Messiah for a few centuries ONLY, but Mohammed was the Messiah for an INDEFINITE period of time?

It's like Buhari successfully changing the Constitution to allow himself to rule forever, even after he's dead. The grandfather of the current president of North Korea is still the LEADER of the country. He's been dead since 1994. My brother, if you don't see the SCAM through the BIAS, then I don't know what to tell you.

Mohammed is a copy cat. He merely threw Jesus name into the mix to obtain LEGITIMACY for his cause. His lifestyle and behaviors towards other human beings cannot be adopted by any PEACEFUL person, as they were STRIKINGLY different from Jesus' life.

Do you have a small son? Can you tell him to emulate the life and behaviors of Mohammed without preparing your family for police interviews?

Okay. You've been heard. You can move along now

sino:
Examples from Sahaba:

(vi). Umar bin al-Khattab(RA)

Narrated `Abdullah bin `Umar: It was said to `Umar, “Will you appoint your successor?” `Umar said, “If I appoint a Caliph (as my successor) it is true that somebody who was better than I (i.e., Abu Bakr) did so, and if I leave the matter undecided, it is true that somebody who was better than I (i.e., Allah’s Messenger (SAWS)) did so.” On this, the people praised him. `Umar said, “People are of two kinds: Either one who is keen to take over the Caliphate or one who is afraid of assuming such a responsibility. I wish I could be free from its responsibility in that I would receive neither reward nor retribution I won’t bear the burden of the caliphate in my death as I do in my life.” [Sahih al-Bukhari #7218]

Comment: Umar(RA) never understood Ghadeer declaration to be Ali’s appointment as the Successor of Prophet(SAWS). Rather he believed that Prophet(SAWS) didn’t appoint his successor.

(vii). Abdullah ibn Umar(RA)

(a). We read

Uqbah bin Aws al Sadusi narrated: Ibn Umar said: In this nation there shall be twelve Caliphs, Abu Bakr Al-Siddiq, you got his name right, Omar Al-Farouq as an iron horn you got his name right, Othman who is Zhu Nourain (the one with two lights) has been given two portions of mercy for he was innocently killed, you got his name right.

[Takhreej Kitab al Sunnah #1154 by Sheikh al Albani ; Hadith Grading: Chain SAHIH].

Comment: Here we find that Abdullah ibn Umar(RA) counted Abubakr(RA) as the first rightful Caliph, which implies that even he didn’t believe Ghadeer event to be an appointment of Prophet’s successor.

(b). We read in [Sahih al-Bukhari #7218] that Abdullah ibn Umar(RA) narrated a hadeeth where Umar(RA) said Prophet(SAWS) didn’t appoint his successor, without making any objection to it, or claiming that Ali(RA) was already appointed a Caliph during Ghadeer event. This proves that even Abdullah ibn Umar agreed with Umar that Prophet (SAWS) didn’t appoint his successor.

(viii). Safinah ibn Farrukh(RA)

Narrated Safinah: The Prophet (SAWS) said: The Caliphate upon the Prophetic methodology will last thirty years; then Allah will give the Kingdom of His Kingdom to anyone He wills. Sa’eed told that Safinah said to him: Calculate Abu Bakr’s caliphate as two years, ‘Umar’s as ten, ‘Uthman’s as twelve and ‘Ali so and so. Sa’eed said: I said to Safinah: They conceive that ‘Ali was not a caliph. He replied: ‘Bani Az-Zarqa’ told a lie. Meaning the Bani Marwan.

[Sunan Abi Dawud #4646 ; Grade: Hasan Sahih (Al-Albani)].

Comment: We see that Safinah(RA) or Mihran – as was his actual name – believed that the Caliphate of first four Caliphs, that is Abu Bakr(RA), Umar(RA), Uthman(RA) and Ali(RA) was the Caliphate on the Prophetic methodology, as it was Prophesied by the Messenger of Allah(SAWS). If he believed that Prophet (SAWS) had appointed Ali (RA) as his successor, then undoubtedly Safinah (RA) wouldn’t have counted the Caliphate of the first three Caliphs among the Caliphate upon the Prophetic methodology.

(ix). Abdullah bin Abi `Aufa(RA)

Narrated Talha: I asked `Abdullah bin Abi `Aufa, “Did the Prophet (SAWS) make a will (to appoint his successor or bequeath wealth)?” He replied, “No.” I said, “How is it prescribed then for the people to make wills, and they are ordered to do so while the Prophet (SAWS) did not make any will?” He said, “He made a will wherein he recommended the Muslims to adhere to Allah’s Book.”[Sahih al-Bukhari #5022].

(x). Abdullah ibn Masood(RA) & All the Sahaba of Prophet(SAWS)

Abdullah ibn Masood(RA) said: “What the Muslims saw as good was good for Allah, and what the Muslims saw as bad was bad for Allah, and all the companions saw that they should make Abu Bakr the successor.”[Mustadrak al-Hakim vol 3, page 78-79].

Comment: Sahaba didn’t understand Ghadeer event to be an appoint of Prophet’s Successor, hence they made Abubakr(RA) the Successor of Prophet(SAWS). The occurrence of Saqifa incident, where Ansar and Muhajireen gathered to appoint a successor of Prophet (SAWS), itself is a proof that they didn’t believe Ghadeer event to be an appointment of Prophet’s successor.

Moreover, the strong Ansar in their homeland giving up their claim of appointing a Successor from among them, and eventually accepting a Man from a weak and small tribe of Bani Taym from Quraysh(i.e Abubakr), is another solid evidence that they had no idea about Ghadeer event being an appointment of Prophet’s Successor.

Sufyan(Thawri) said: If anyone thinks that ‘Ali (RA) was more deserving for the Caliphate than both of them, he imputed error to Abu Bakr, ‘Umar, the Muhajirun (Immigrants), and the Ansar (Helpers) Allah be pleased with all of them. I think that with this (belief) none of his action will rise to the heaven. [Sunan Abi Dawud #4630]

Important Note:

This fact that Prophet (SAWS) didn’t appoint any Successor is Mutawatir bi’l-ma’na. Narrations that reach the level of Tawatur with the common
meaning found in all of them, even though they differ in wording or incident. This is called Mutawatir bi’l-ma’na (conceptual Mutawatir). For example, one report says that Zaid gave a book, the other says, he gave a pen, the third says, he gave money. Now, collectively all the reports indicate that Zaid gave, however they differ as to what he gave. Therefore, tawatur will be considered in that Zaid gave. Examples of this kind of Mutawatir are numerous in the Hadith. (See Imam Suyuti’s Tadrib al-Rawi, 460-461).

Therefore, the odd Shia interpretation of Hadeeth al-Ghadeer, claiming that Prophet (SAWS) appointed his successor goes against a Mutawatir fact (100% authentic) that Prophet (SAWS) didn’t appoint his successor, thus it is outright rejected."


Honestly, I do not understand how you people would just pick a narration or a verse, and give them your interpretations with absoluterly no recourse to the understanding of the righteous predecessors, including the ahl-l-bayt you keep saying you follow, and then try to sell that as the truth for people to believe and follow. My question still stands, and if you do not have the answer, you should rethink the path you have chosen for yourself!

رفعت الأقلام وجفت الصحف
This is so far one of the best reply to this shia ghadir kum issue

Weah96:
So who was Mohammed supposed to be since the Messiah Jesus had already completed the SAVING part of the job? Messiah Part 2?

Jesus (pubh) was to Savior to people of his time Only and Muhammad (pbuh) was a saviour to the people of his time andthose after him till the end of time

sino:
Bros, still you haven’t answered my question. The fact remains that Ali (RA) did not make reference to Ghadir Khumm as evidence against anyone in terms of succession whether they (his predecessors) were chosen in secrecy or not is immaterial, since he (RA) also pledged allegiance to them after all, and also when he did so does not matter. In fact, we have a narration which clearly states the position of Ali (RA) with regards to khilafah.

From Al haythami in Mujama’a al Zawa’ed 9/50:

They said to Ali: “Will you not appoint a successor?” He said: “The Prophet (sallAllahu ‘alayhi wa sallam) did not appoint a successor so that I may do so, If Allah wishes that something good happens to you then he will make you all gather around the best (Man) amongst you just like he made them gather around the best Man (i.e. Abu Bakr) after their Prophet (sallAllahu ‘alayhi wa sallam)”

[Rank: All narrators are that of the Sahih except Ismail bin Abi al Harith and he is Trustworthy].

Authentic Hadith of `Ali ibn abi Talib from Tareekh al-Tabari 4/428, when the six men gathered after the passing of `Umar to elect a successor, each man spoke, when it was `Ali’s turn he said:

[…If the messenger (saw) had promised us anything (with regards to leadership) we would have fulfilled his wish, and we would have argued about it until we die, no one will beat me to call people to the truth…]

Now to your opinion why Ali (RA) didn’t bring the narration at Ghadir Khumm is quite poor, firstly, you have no evidence to back this, and secondly, you guys claim that Imamah is a divine appointment, and maula means authority over the Muslims, did Ali (RA) now deny himself this position of authority by keeping quiet?! And none of the sahabah remembered this appointment made by the Prophet (SAW) at Ghadir Khumm?! Thirdly, the personality of Ali (RA) is that of a warrior and a courageous Muslim, he would never shy away from speaking the truth to anyone (as evident in the above narration), yet we cannot find him stating that his caliphate was usurped. So for over 25 years, Ali (RA) couldn’t find an opportunity to remind the people, including Abu Bakr, Umar and Uthman, whom he happened to have direct access to, and also amongst his students. Fourthly, Ali (RA) had nothing contrary to say about his predecessors except praises and respect and prayers, there was no enmity between themselves…It is obvious that you guys are the ones really claiming what the Prophet (SAW) and Ali (RA) never claimed.



Yeah the narration is vague, what brought about asking for people to stand up and bear witness, i.e what was the reason?! And as I said earlier, your assumption holds no water, the incidence happened close to his death, if it was about being appointed as the successor of the Prophet (SAW), he would have said so during the time of Abu Bakr (RA), Umar (RA), and Uthman (RA), in fact, those loyal to him would have brought the narration of Ghadir Khumm as evidence to back him. But it was not so, and I shall bring evidences that shows the understanding of the sahabas (including ahl-l-bayt) of the narration, and how they applied it.




The narration is authentic based on the fact that there are similar authentic narrations (which you brought one of them); there is also a similar narration with same chain that was authenticated by Shuaib Al-Aranuut by stating (Sahih li ghayrihi), apparently, there is an issue with the sanad. But, authenticity of the narration I brought is not an issue; even the number of those that stood up is also not an issue. Since we can get more information from the narration which does not render the narration to be rejected, then there is absolutely nothing wrong with that.
Be that as it may, as I hinted earlier, I would be bringing the understanding of how the narration of Ghadir Khumm was understood and applied by the sahabahs subsequently…


Bros, it is not an assumption, it is a fact, and the evidences are there for all to read (on the link I presented). Your own assumption has no evidence(s); you just sat down and brought it out of thin air! Ali (RA) would use the narration of Ghadir Khumm to defend himself against his opponents, not and never to state him having right to the caliphate. Here is evidence for this:

“Rifā‘ah bin Iyās ad-Dabbī relates on the authority of his father who relates it on the authority of his grandfather. He said: We were with ‘Alī (RA) on the day of the Battle of Jamal. He sent a message for Talhah bin ‘Ubaydullāh (RA) who called on him. He said: I make you swear by Allāh! Have you heard from the Messenger of Allāh (SAW): One who has me as his Mawla has ‘Alī as his Mawla O Allāh! Befriend him who befriends him and be his enemy who is his enemy. Talhah (RA) said: Yes. ‘Alī (RA) said: Then why do you fight with me? Talhah (RA) said: I did not remember it. The narrator said: (After this) Talhah (RA) went back.”

[ Hākim narrated it in al-Mustadrak vol 3, page 371 # 5594 ; Bayhaqī in al-I‘tiqād wal-hidāyah ilā sabīl-ir-rishād ‘alā madhhab-is-salaf wa ashāb-il-hadīth page 373; Ibn ‘Asākir in Tārīkh Dimashq al-kabīr vol 27, page 76].

Again Ali (RA) clarified issue of caliphate during the same battle above, which puts all your assumptions to eternal rest, we read:

Amro bin Sufiyan said: When Ali came on the day of Jamal he said: “O people, the Apostle of Allah(SAWS) did not promise us anything regarding this Imarah (Caliphate/Succession) until we saw in our own opinion that we must appoint Abu Bakr and he took a straight path then he left us…
[Source: Ahmad and al Bayhaqi and al Mubarakpoori with good chain].

Again, the sahabahs also do same to defend Ali (RA), Example:

Amr ibn Maymun said: “I was sitting once in the company of ibn Abbas when nine men came to him and said, ‘O ibn Abbas! Either come to debate with us, or tell these folks that you prefer a private debate.’ He had not lost his eye-sight yet he said: ‘I rather debate with you.’ So they started talking, but I was not sure exactly what they were talking about. Then he stood up and angrily said: “Woe to them! Woe to them! They insult a man who gathered ten (virtues)!.… Prophet(SAWS) also said: Whosoever I am Mawla of, Ali is his Mawla. [Musnad Ahmad bin Hanbal. Vol. 3, Pg. # 331 – 333.]

Here Ibn Abbas defended Ali (RA) with the narration when those people were insulting him, so Ibn Abbas knew this narration, but did not understand it to mean caliphate of Ali (RA) after the death of the Prophet (SAW).

So it is not out of place for the author of the comment, backed by these evidences, and the narration found in Ibn Abi Shaybah to state that the context (reason) for Ali’s (RA) statement was to defend himself against the criticisms leveled against him by his opponents and detractors.

Jazakallahu khairan. Your reply to baqir is a classical example of إن كنت ريحا فقد لاقيت اعصارا