Ultramane's Posts
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YUNGCONCEPT11:I'm not an atheist. I don't buy into religious labels. What am I? I'm in no hurry to define. As to your book recommendations.... Man, seriously? I've read books for and against Islam. I don't need to listen to converts' anecdotes to reassure me that Islam is the religion of truth. I've been doing my research, thus far, I've seen reasons why Muslims leaves Islam. Islam has its problems. If you say the book of Maurice BUCCAILE did not worth you need to cleanse your message mind of some thought and believe that has the instill into your mind.Haha! Man, Bucaille was wrong on many level. It is so laughable, if you understand Qur'an Arabic, Greek Science and Human history. |
Khaleell001:I'm sure there are those leaving Islam owing to ignorance, but learned Muslims leave Islam time to time. Perhaps it may not be enough detraction, but it is detraction and it begs the question of the veracity of the "Benefits of becoming a Muslim". Islām is the only religion.Christians say the same of Christianity. And so do Jews of Judaism. You're bluffing. |
YUNGCONCEPT11:It seem you don't know me. First, I'm not a Christian. Secondly, I have no sentiment against Islam. Please see my threads; https://www.nairaland.com/usermane/topics. I've written in favor of Qur'an for over 5 years, but since I don't believe in religious labels or affiliations, I do not hesitate to criticize Islam or the Qur'an where necessary. As for Maurice Buccaile, I've seem his 'testimony', nothing impressive to be honest. What an embarrassment. I'd love to chat with you, but WhatsApp won't be suitable medium to exchange information on this broad subject matter. |
I summarize in closing that according to traditional Islam, Muhammad is not an ordinary man who died in the 7th century, but he is alive and hears and responds to Muslim greetings from within his grave. It is in this fact that the real status of Muhammad as a demigod is revealed. The traditional Muslims do not worship Muhammad, but in their veneration and salutations and blessing of his person or tomb and seeking of his intercession, is comparable degree of polytheism as the Makkan pagans and their gods, allat, manat, al uzza. |
If given all of these, you still find veneration, greeting and blessing of Muhammad still ordinary and innocent, especially as no Muslim ever claim that Muhammad is still alive and accessible as Jesus who never died according to Christians, then the following hadith should open your eyes. [quote author=Sunan Abi Dawud » The Rites of Hajj]The Prophet (ﷺ) said: If any one of you greets me, Allah returns my soul to me and I respond to the greeting.[/quote] |
In supplications, this is known as salawat; Allah, bless Muhammad and the family of Muhammad, as you have blessed Ibrahim and his family. Truly, You are Praiseworthy and GloriousIn fact, no supplication is accepted by God of traditional Islam, unless the supplicant recite blessing upon Muhammad. [quote author=Jami` at-Tirmidhi » The Book on Al-Witr]"Indeed the supplication stops between the heavens and the earth. Nothing of it is raised up until you send Salat upon your Prophet."[/quote]NB: This hadith is considered weak according to Darrusalam, but our point still holds because Tirmidhi regarded it authentic enough to add to his collection. |
When traditional Muslims sit in between every 2 rakas of their salat, and when they supplicate, they emphasize saluting and blessing Muhammad. In salat, this is known as "Attahiyatu". Here are the lines; "Salutations to God and prayers and good deeds. Peace be upon you, O Prophet, and the mercy of God and his blessings. Peace be on us and on the righteous servants of God. I bear witness that there is no god but Allah, and I bear witness that Muhammad is His servant and His messenger."Note how they address Muhammad. One is only addressed like this if they are still alive and hear their addressees. |
But if Muhammad is dead, why visit, why this reverence before his tomb? It leads back to our former theory that Muhammad never died, but like a god and unlike all men of his era, is still alive and can take greetings and salutations from Muslims. If this veneration is still no big deal, and seem only normal as one sitting at the grave of a deceased relative, then the next revelation will reveal more. |
Veneration & Invocation of Muhammad: Polytheism or Not? After or during their pilgrimage, most Muslims visit the main mosque at Medina, where Muhammad tomb is said to lie. They stand before this tomb - marked by a dome - and they directly address Muhammad directly with greetings, invoking his intercession and supplicating to God. Here is how this is done; http://www.2mfm.org/multimedia/islamic-articles/110-al-ziyara |
Here is an interesting report on Saudi nationals and expats' opinions on closing businesses - restuarant, malls, stores, petrol stations and even pharmacies- 20-30mins for salat daily. https://stepfeed.com/we-spoke-to-people-in-saudi-arabia-about-malls-closing-during-prayer-times-6937 |
Another problem with enforcing salat is just how impractical and unfair it is to non-Muslims. To be fair, authorities must permit non-Muslims to carry on their activities during salat, but how do they decide who is a Muslim or non-Muslim? What if some Muslims pretend to be non-Muslims in order not to break for salat? Partly due to these difficulties, authorities like the Saudi regime opt to enforce salat on everyone, without exception. Non-Muslims do not need to go to the mosque but must still suspend their businesses at the time of salat. Wherever Islam is forced upon Muslims, even non-Muslims upon whom Islam is not directly forced are affected adversely. |
Notice how these salat can be performed any time within a broad duration. Say Zuhr, can be observed anytime from 12:30/1:00pm to 2:30/3:00pm. No need to rush for the mosque at 12:40 immediately as the congregation begin salat. A Muslim may decide to hold his salat at an hour later, 1:30pm. This is Islamically legal. But if authorities insist, then when is the time right for them to enforce suspension of activities in public space and observance of salat? Unless it takes 2 hours to observe a salat of 2, 3 or 4 raka'as, enforcing salat is a completely stupid idea. |
[quote author=Sunan an-Nasa'i » The Book of the Times (of Prayer)]"The Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) said: This is 'Jibril, peace be upon you, he came to teach you your religion. He prayed Subh when the dawn appeared, and he prayed Zuhr when the sun had (passed its zenith), and he prayed 'Asr when he saw that the shadow of a thing was equal to its height, then he prayed Maghrib when the sub had set and it is permissible for the fasting person to eat. Then he prayed 'Isha' when the twilight had disappeared. Then he came to him the following day and prayed Subh when it had got a little lighter, then he prayed Zuhr when the shadow of a thing was equal to its height, then he prayed 'Asr when the shadow of a thing was equal to twice its height, then he prayed Maghrib at the same time as before, then he prayed 'Isha' when a short period of the night had passed. Then he said: 'The prayer is between the times when you prayed yesterday and the times when you prayed today.'"[/quote] |
In order for salat to be salat, it need to be done mindfully. And to be done mindfully, it need to be done willfully, not reluctantly in coercion from elders, police, parents or guardian. Now, even if we can justify forcing Muslims to head for salat, there is the question on the time to force every activity to suspend for salat. There is no specific moment for salat. Each salat can be observed any time within a window of at least 2 hours, taking the the equator as our reference. See Qur'an 17:78, 24:58, 11:114. Also see hadith; |
What is so wrong with enforcing Salat Some Muslims state salat is beneficial, and forcing it upon Muslims is only helping them. No. Salat requires mental focus on God because it is a form of communication with God. You can force a Muslim to stand behind an Imam, recite and prostrate, but you cannot force them to mentally focus. This reduces salat to a mindless physical chore, an interruption that the Muslim just want to get over with. This is no salat, this is not communication with God. This is empty, unproductive and waste of time. |
[quote author=62:9, 11]O ye who believe! When the call is heard for the prayer of the day of congregation, haste unto remembrance of Allah and leave your trading. That is better for you if ye did but know. But when they spy some merchandise or pastime they break away to it and leave thee standing. Say: That which Allah hath is better than pastime and than merchandise, and Allah is the Best of providers.[/quote]And thus, even Muhammad could only remind those negligent of the benefit of salat, still leaving these Muslims to comply or not. |
In fact, Qur'an 62 reveal a case of salat negligence that would've been ideal point to instruct Muhammad disciplinary measures against Muslims that refuse salat. Still, true to the overraching theme of "No compulsion in religion", Qur'an never spells any such measure as forcing businesses to suspend, dragging young men to the mosque or arresting those who did not hasten to salat after adhaan. |
Qur'an 2:174:Notice, if the Qur'an permit observing these rites in secrecy, then Qur'an does not approve of an authority pestering and invading Muslim privacy to determine if they've observed or not observed the rites. |
In all the traditional schools of Islamic law, the penalty for willful abandonment of salat or zakat is death. There is no disagreement on this. Briefly, death is the penalty for a Muslim who refuse to observe salat or zakat in traditional Islam. Contradicting Qur'an, which permit Muslims to observe these rites in secrecy. [quote author=Qur'an 35:29]Those who recite the Book of God and establish salat and spend out of what We have provided them, secretly and openly, hope for a gain that will never perish.[/quote] |
Enforced Salat or Zakat [quote author=Sahih Muslim » The Book of Faith]It is narrated on the authority of Abu Huraira that when the Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) breathed his last and Abu Bakr was appointed as his successor (Caliph), those amongst the Arabs who wanted to become apostates became apostates. 'Umar b. Khattab said to Abu Bakr: Why would you fight against the people, when the Messenger of Allah declared: I have been directed to fight against people so long as they do not say: There is no god but Allah, and he who professed it was granted full protection of his property and life on my behalf except for a right? His (other) affairs rest with Allah. Upon this Abu Bakr said: By Allah, I would definitely fight against him who severed prayer from Zakat, for it is the obligation upon the rich. By Allah, I would fight against them even to secure the cord (used for hobbling the feet of a camel) which they used to give to the Messenger of Allah (as zakat) but now they have withheld it. Umar b. Khattab remarked: By Allah, I found nothing but the fact that Allah had opened the heart of Abu Bakr for (perceiving the justification of) fighting (against those who refused to pay Zakat) and I fully recognized that the (stand of Abu Bakr) was right.[/quote] |
Violations of Freedom of Religious Beliefs & Harmless Expressions in Traditional Islam Let us analyze certain doctrines enforced by traditional Islam and Muslims in contradiction to these verses. Although the justifications for such endorsements are sloppy and half-baked, they've gained approval in the Muslim scholarly discourse. |
YUNGCONCEPT11:All kinds of people embrace Islam, just as all kinds of people leave Islam. It is unfortunate bias in the part of the Muslim to assume all converts are stable and moral human beings while all apostates are unstable and immoral. |
Khaleell001:I'm not interested in squabbling over spread of Islam. My point is that spread of Islam is no assurance that Islam is the flawless truth. There are a lot of grey areas in Islam that had led many to question the faith and ultimately part with it. |
YUNGCONCEPT11:Who told you that ex-Muslims are unstable? I've found fine Muslims who were devoted and steadfast give up Islam, not because they thirst for beer or long for a brothel. But after engaging these ex-Muslims, I found these to be serious folks who seriously considered Islam before resolving it is a man made faith. As to Islam being the 'fastest' growing religion, it doesn't mean anything. What about Christianity that has had the largest followers for the past centuries? Now, once you're done marveling at the growth of Islam in the west, you can turn your attention to the middle east where ex-Muslims are increasing. People are leaving Islam, especially for atheism in Iran, Egypt, Saudi Arabia, so much that committees to intellectually tackle atheist thoughts have been set up. |
Khaleell001:I think you mistake me for someone. I have never engaged you. |
Rashduct4luv:Qur'an confirms the previous revelation, not abrogate them. Why else would the Qur'an ask Jews & Christians to follow these revelations? There is no doubt that this book is preserved from any alteration and falsification. It was transmitted to the Muslims, generation by generation, by absolute evidences. Since its revelation it was kept intact in its written form and memorized [by millions of Muslims], young and old people, males and females, Arabs and non-Arabs. No one could add a letter to it or remove a letter from it. The differences that might happen in the interpretation of the Quran does not mean that it was falsified, as interpreting the meaning of the Quran is not considered as adding to it or taking out anything from it.This is not true. Be careful what you claim, cause you might have to prove it. You must know that the earliest Qur'an manuscripts lacked diacritics and vowel marks. You can note this today in the discrepancies between the popular versions of Qur'an, the Hafs and Warsh. This alone should caution any sincere Muslim. There is no evidence outside Muslim sources that the 1924 edition of Qur'an is the same Qur'an throughout history, letter for letter, word for word. The Bible: Many people refer to the Injeel (the book that was revealed to prophet 'Eesaa, may Allah exalt his mention) by the term "The Bible". But one can surely say, and without any doubt, that the Injeel has been altered and changed by human beings throughout history and the original copy no longer exists.Wow. So much words, so much flaws. The Qur'an confirms the Bible. It speaks nothing of any variation from original text. It repeatedly instruct the people of the book to follow it. And from the 7th century till date, the Bible remained the same. If the Bible were to change after or before Qur'an, Qur'an as the Word of an all knowing should've warned readers. |
tintingz:You haven't heard? Scientific and Numeric miracle of Qur'an on Bees. www.miracles-of-quran.com/honey_bees.htm |
tintingz:Oh. Sure. Your feelings are right. I am the same person. |
Lukgaf:This depends. If you're a person who is self indulgent and deeply hedonistic, fasting may help. But if you have your life together, you don't even need to fast. Note also, health benefits of fasting is overhyped in the Muslim community. Food consumption during fasting is even higher than before or afterwards. It is a repeating cycle of fasting and feasting, not just fasting. Do doctors recommend fasting? Yes. But not daily fasting of 21 hours without even a ml of water. 7. As a result of the sixth benefit, you will be able to control your lusts, selfishness, desires, greed, ego, and conceitedness.Hmm.. It all depends. Definitely, there are Muslims who do not reap this benefit at the end of fasting. It doesn't change anything for most Muslims besides meal schedule. 8. Another side reaction of the sixth and seventh benefits is that you will be generous and hospitable; you will try to purify yourself and your mistakes by sharing your happiness and your wealth with those who are less fortunate than you. Your rewards will manifold, compounded daily until the Day of Judgment.This is highly subjective and not proven. 9. By performing pilgrimage to Makkah, you will transcend yourself from being nationalistic, sectarian, or denominational into being universal. You will be part and an essential constituent of the rainbow of Islam. You will be also part of the brotherhood of Islam with those who already submitted themselves to the Creator. At the same time, you will get rid of any inferiority or superiority complexes. You will also find yourself in synchrony and harmony with all the prophets and messengers of Allah since the creation of Adam and Eve until the last final messenger to mankind, prophet Muhammad (PBUH). While in Makkah, you will be able to visit the places of revelation of the Qu`ran as well as the places visited by prophet Abraham and members of his family such as Hagar and Ishmael. You will visit the place where the first astronauts, Adam and Eve landed on earth.You don't need hajj to be an essential part of Islam. Where did this bogus claim come from? Also hajj does still leaves you denominational, not universal. You still belong to a camp, the Muslim camp. You reject the Christain camp or the Hindu. This is denominational. Hajj wont get rid of a Muslim superiority compex, after all Islam teaches that Muslims are the best people, and if I'm not mistakened, that Christian and Jews are the worst folks. Adam and Eve landed in Makkah? Hmm... 10. In becoming a Muslim, you will do your best to stop all types of exploitations in all their forms: economic, biological, mental, spiritual, psychological, political, etc. You will also work to liberate people and give them freedom of worship, freedom of speech, and freedom of expression. You will be a leader and help lead people to peace, tranquility and happiness.Freedom of worship, speech, expression? This again, is subjective. If you become a Muslim you're more likely to oppose these human rights values. I have an active thread on Human rights in Islam, where I gather verses that appeal to human rights. But that's just me. How many Muslims in this section since it's inception ever created a thread in favor of human rights values? How many Muslim scholars speak of these basic freedoms? 11. In accepting Islam, you will help to reduce all types of social illnesses in the society: juvenile delinquency, child abuse, domestic abuse, incest, homosexuality, sexual promiscuity, premarital relationships, extramarital relationships, and other vices.Sure, but you don't need to be a Muslim to oppose these 'illness'. And Incest? Does that include first cousin marriages too? Homosexuality? My my. 12. As a result of the eleventh benefit, you will reduce and eliminate venereal diseases, AIDS, and other diseases of similar nature in the society.You will help minimize, not eliminate. Some of these disease are also transmitted non-sexually. 13. Finally, when you die, you will die at peace. You will have a happy life in the grave and later, eternal happiness. Angels at the time of death will comfort you. They will also show you your place in paradise. On the Day of Judgment, you will be able to see and meet all the prophets and messengers of God to mankind including Noah, Abraham, Moses, Jesus, and Muhammad (PBUH). You will be able to see and meet any and all of your friends and relatives. You will live an eternal life of bliss in paradise.Same promise from every the religion on earth. Was this piece written for pre-school kids? |
tintingz:But it is prone to create harms like premature ejaculation and delayed ejaculation. To be on a safer side, it is better to abstain. But I disagree with theists who raise the morality card against masturbation. |
Lukgaf:This is half truth. How do you know these issues do not exist outside the west? And how do you know masturbation is the reason for popularity of MouthAction, and how do you know a lot of people outside the west don't engage in MouthAction? Likewise, the ease of masturbating compared to sex (as it doesn’t require another person), encourages continuation of doing it, until one becomes addicted. Dr. Anwar al-Hamaadi says that masturbation has much harm, the most important: Weak sexuality, weak sperm, premature ejaculation, a curving of the penis (Peyronie’s Disease), and other things. It is clear from the words of the doctors that engaging in masturbation leads to physical and psychological harms, as it uses body strength, leads to depression, busies its doer from doing the obligations, and could escort him to committing fornication. Shaykh, Dr. Mustafa az-Zarqaa said: “And what is medically harmful, is cautioned from Islaamically, and this is the agreement of the fuqahaa`”.Sure, I agree with Dr. Mustapha that masturbation is bad. But I disagree with his reasoning. Medically harmful practices like circumcision, first cousin marriages or amputation of healthy limbs are ordained in Islam, at least according to the fuqahaa. |
