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Muslim: Monotheist Vs Anti-monotheist - Islam for Muslims (3) - Nairaland

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Re: Muslim: Monotheist Vs Anti-monotheist by usermane(m): 10:07am On Jan 12, 2019
Re: Muslim: Monotheist Vs Anti-monotheist by usermane(m): 10:08am On Jan 12, 2019
Re: Muslim: Monotheist Vs Anti-monotheist by Empiree: 5:19am On Jan 13, 2019
usermane:
Salat
See my previous inputs on salat and Qur'an:

Arabs Observed Salat Before Muhammad, God Never Condemned their Procedure
smh... In English language salat is literally "prayer". Hindu, Buddhist, shikh, chintos, Judaism, Christianity and the list is endless. All of them use the word prayer as muslims do. Does that mean their prayer or salat was right?. Prayer is prayer.
Re: Muslim: Monotheist Vs Anti-monotheist by usermane(m): 10:30am On Jan 19, 2019
Examples: How Hadith turns Muslims from God

Hadith contradicts God's stipulations. For instance, fast is to be terminated at full darkness, night in Qur'an 2:187, yet hadith demand hastening to break fast only at sunset.

Zakat like other charities is to be donated to needy(30:37-38), but hadith limit it to the poor & prioritize or limit its recipients to Muslims. Hajj may be performed through the 4 sacred months(2:197), but hadith limit it to 5 days of only one month.

Cont. Below

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Re: Muslim: Monotheist Vs Anti-monotheist by usermane(m): 10:32am On Jan 19, 2019
Salat is to be recited audibly(17:78), but hadith demand silent or very loud recitation. Traditional Muslim salat may seem impressive with so much scrupulosity, but it is sheer pretentiousness, and that is no guarantee it is THE valid procedure.

Interestingly, Hadith may even reflect this;

The messenger said; "A group of people will appear among you whose prayer, fasting and deeds will make you think little of your own prayer, fasting and deeds. They will recite the Qur'an, but it will not get past their throats, and they will pass through the deen like an arrow passes through game.
Muwatta malik - Book of Qur'an

Cont. Below
Re: Muslim: Monotheist Vs Anti-monotheist by usermane(m): 10:33am On Jan 19, 2019
It also helps to know the hadith confirms that the traditional Muslim salat procedure practiced today was not recognized or approved by some of Muhammad's earlier followers.

Yahya related to me from Malik from his paternal uncle Abu Suhayl ibn Malik that his uncle's father said, "I recognise nothing nowadays of what I saw the people (i.e. the companions of the Messenger, may Allah bless him and grant him peace ) doing except the call to prayer."
Muwatta Malik - Book of Prayer

Cont. Below
Re: Muslim: Monotheist Vs Anti-monotheist by usermane(m): 10:34am On Jan 19, 2019
So, trust in God alone as you deduce salat with Qur'an and Reason. There is probability that the traditional salat procedure is an innovation after Muhammad.

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Re: Muslim: Monotheist Vs Anti-monotheist by usermane(m): 7:50am On Mar 23, 2019
Intercession - Smoking gun of Polytheism

There is intercession on the day of Judgement.

Qur'an 20:109:
On that Day shall no intercession avail except for those for whom permission has been granted by Most Gracious and whose word is acceptable to Him.

But this intercession is neither a unique power of anyone nor beneficial to anyone.

40:18:
Warn them of the Day of the approaching, when the hearts will be choking the throats, there will be no friend for the wrong-doers, nor any intercessor who will be heard.

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Re: Muslim: Monotheist Vs Anti-monotheist by usermane(m): 7:52am On Mar 23, 2019
So, practically there is really no intercession. It is an empty promise that only polytheists share. What is worse, traditional Muslims have not only accorded Muhammad the power of intercession as pagans accorded stones and statue, but they posit that inanimate and intangible objects like salat or Qur'an have the power to intercede, and so do individual Muslims like those who have memorized the whole Qur'an.

Here is what Muhammad said about the Arabs taking intercessors;

39:43:
Or choose they intercessors other than Allah? Say: What! Even though they have power over nothing and have no intelligence?

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Re: Muslim: Monotheist Vs Anti-monotheist by usermane(m): 7:52am On Mar 23, 2019
For Muhammad to condemn intercessors other than Allah, and then turn around to declare himself or anyone else, or anything else as intercessor other than Allah is deceptively contradictory & tantamount to him declaring himself a partner with God, a mediator between God & man, which is polytheistic.

Let's see how this polytheistic doctrine of intercession was incorporated into tradition Islam.

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Re: Muslim: Monotheist Vs Anti-monotheist by usermane(m): 7:53am On Mar 23, 2019
Hadith on Intercession breeding Complacency & Undermining Good deeds

Jami` at-Tirmidhi » Chapters on the description of the Day of Judgement
"My intercession is for the people who committed the major sins in my Ummah."
If people commit any sin, God is always available for sincere repentance(Qur'an 2:186). There is really no need for Muhammad's intercession. If the sinner dies before he repents, then he's doomed. Even Muhammad cannot save him. No shortcut or cheat code to paradise. You reap what you sow.

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Re: Muslim: Monotheist Vs Anti-monotheist by usermane(m): 7:54am On Mar 23, 2019
Sahih Muslim » The Book of Prayer - Funerals
If a company of Muslims numbering one hundred pray over a dead person, all of them interceding for him, their intercession for him will be accepted.

Yes, I guess it matter not how you live but how you're buried in traditional Islam. You can rape, plunder, drink, gamble and massacre all your life. Then hire 100 Muslims to pray over your corpse after you die, and paradise is yours.

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Re: Muslim: Monotheist Vs Anti-monotheist by usermane(m): 7:54am On Mar 23, 2019
Jami` at-Tirmidhi » Chapters on Virtues
"Whoever cheats the Arabs, he will not be included in my intercession, and my love shall not reach him."
One condition you must meet to get intercession... is not to cheat the Arabs. But you can cheat the Persians or the Byzantines or the Indians. And in case you cheat the Arabs, no worries. Just fast every Arafat and Ashura day till death, all your past and future sins will be forgiven by your time of death.
Re: Muslim: Monotheist Vs Anti-monotheist by usermane(m): 7:55am On Mar 23, 2019
See how these hadith breed complacency and undermine righteousness? This will make a interesting topic for some other day. But notice how much weakness plague them, yet this is only the beginning. The beginning of a long trail that inevitably expose the deification of Muhammad in traditional Islam.
Re: Muslim: Monotheist Vs Anti-monotheist by Ultramane: 4:08pm On Mar 31, 2019
Re: Muslim: Monotheist Vs Anti-monotheist by Ultramane: 4:09pm On Mar 31, 2019
Shahadatayn & Polytheism

3:18:
There is no god but He: That is the witness of Allah, His angels, and those endued with knowledge. There is no god but He, the Exalted in Power, the Wise.

It is written, that the testimony by God, angels and believers - monotheists is the above. Yet there is another testimony popular among Muslims; "I testify that Muhammad is the messenger of God." It often procede the former testimony in Adhaan, Iqama or declaration of faith.
Re: Muslim: Monotheist Vs Anti-monotheist by Ultramane: 4:10pm On Mar 31, 2019
What is wrong with the latter testimony? Why is it polytheistic?

It is important to bear these in mind;

1. Muhammad IS NOT the messenger of God. Muhammad WAS the messenger of God. WAS, not IS. The obvious grammatical error in this testimony is the first red flag. Or Is Muhammad still alive? Could it be why traditionalists retain the "is"? We'll see.
Re: Muslim: Monotheist Vs Anti-monotheist by Ultramane: 4:15pm On Mar 31, 2019
2. Indeed, there is only one reference to anyone testifying to Muhammad in Qur'an.

63:1:
When the hypocrites come unto thou, they say: We bear witness that thou art indeed Allah's messenger. And Allah knoweth that thou art indeed His messenger, and Allah beareth witness that the hypocrites indeed are speaking falsely.

Interestingly, this testimony is by hypocrites. And whenever an act is only associated with hypocrites in the Qur'an, it is an act detestable. Not to be imitated by true believers.

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Re: Muslim: Monotheist Vs Anti-monotheist by Ultramane: 4:17pm On Mar 31, 2019
3. Muhammad is dead and gone. No man today has seen, heard, touched or felt him. I've explained in the past why without sensing Muhammad we cannot testify to him. Please see my thread;
https://www.nairaland.com/2734412/testimonies-give-not-give

Because traditional Muslims insist on this false testimony till the end of the world, they have turned Muhammad into a being existing and living forever, as a god. This is the the only logical inference for their testimony to Muhammad to make any sense. This is the polytheism in testifying to Muhammad.

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Re: Muslim: Monotheist Vs Anti-monotheist by Empiree: 5:00pm On Mar 31, 2019
Senselessness cheesy

Go back to Arabic and islamic school bro and stop making things up from your little brain. undecided

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Re: Muslim: Monotheist Vs Anti-monotheist by Ultramane: 7:50am On Apr 13, 2019
Veneration & Invocation of Muhammad: Polytheism or Not?

After or during their pilgrimage, most Muslims visit the main mosque at Medina, where Muhammad tomb is said to lie. They stand before this tomb - marked by a dome - and they directly address Muhammad directly with greetings, invoking his intercession and supplicating to God. Here is how this is done;

http://www.2mfm.org/multimedia/islamic-articles/110-al-ziyara
Re: Muslim: Monotheist Vs Anti-monotheist by Ultramane: 7:52am On Apr 13, 2019
But if Muhammad is dead, why visit, why this reverence before his tomb? It leads back to our former theory that Muhammad never died, but like a god and unlike all men of his era, is still alive and can take greetings and salutations from Muslims.

If this veneration is still no big deal, and seem only normal as one sitting at the grave of a deceased relative, then the next revelation will reveal more.
Re: Muslim: Monotheist Vs Anti-monotheist by Ultramane: 7:53am On Apr 13, 2019
When traditional Muslims sit in between every 2 rakas of their salat, and when they supplicate, they emphasize saluting and blessing Muhammad. In salat, this is known as "Attahiyatu". Here are the lines;

"Salutations to God and prayers and good deeds. Peace be upon you, O Prophet, and the mercy of God and his blessings. Peace be on us and on the righteous servants of God. I bear witness that there is no god but Allah, and I bear witness that Muhammad is His servant and His messenger."

Note how they address Muhammad. One is only addressed like this if they are still alive and hear their addressees.
Re: Muslim: Monotheist Vs Anti-monotheist by Ultramane: 7:54am On Apr 13, 2019
In supplications, this is known as salawat;

Allah, bless Muhammad and the family of Muhammad, as you have blessed Ibrahim and his family. Truly, You are Praiseworthy and Glorious

In fact, no supplication is accepted by God of traditional Islam, unless the supplicant recite blessing upon Muhammad.

Jami` at-Tirmidhi » The Book on Al-Witr:
"Indeed the supplication stops between the heavens and the earth. Nothing of it is raised up until you send Salat upon your Prophet."

NB: This hadith is considered weak according to Darrusalam, but our point still holds because Tirmidhi regarded it authentic enough to add to his collection.
Re: Muslim: Monotheist Vs Anti-monotheist by Ultramane: 7:56am On Apr 13, 2019
If given all of these, you still find veneration, greeting and blessing of Muhammad still ordinary and innocent, especially as no Muslim ever claim that Muhammad is still alive and accessible as Jesus who never died according to Christians, then the following hadith should open your eyes.

Sunan Abi Dawud » The Rites of Hajj:
The Prophet (ﷺ) said: If any one of you greets me, Allah returns my soul to me and I respond to the greeting.
Re: Muslim: Monotheist Vs Anti-monotheist by Ultramane: 8:07am On Apr 13, 2019
I summarize in closing that according to traditional Islam, Muhammad is not an ordinary man who died in the 7th century, but he is alive and hears and responds to Muslim greetings from within his grave. It is in this fact that the real status of Muhammad as a demigod is revealed.

The traditional Muslims do not worship Muhammad, but in their veneration and salutations and blessing of his person or tomb and seeking of his intercession, is comparable degree of polytheism as the Makkan pagans and their gods, allat, manat, al uzza.
Re: Muslim: Monotheist Vs Anti-monotheist by Empiree: 11:12am On Apr 13, 2019
Ultramane:
When traditional Muslims sit in between every 2 rakas of their salat, and when they supplicate, they emphasize saluting and blessing Muhammad. In salat, this is known as "Attahiyatu". Here are the lines;



Note how they address Muhammad. One is only addressed like this if they are still alive and hear their addressees.
This is ultra modern Salafis ideology you adopted here like Dr. Bilal Philips and he was refuted. I forgot you are now 'ultra'.

Ultramane:
The traditional Muslims do not worship Muhammad, but in their veneration and salutations and blessing of his person or tomb and seeking of his intercession, is comparable degree of polytheism as the Makkan pagans and their gods, allat, manat, al uzza.
you confused?. If you agree that traditional muslims do not worship Muhammad (saw) then you have contradicted yourselves by your later statements. Make up your mind. You boring
Re: Muslim: Monotheist Vs Anti-monotheist by true2god: 8:17am On Apr 15, 2019
Ultramane:
3. Muhammad is dead and gone. No man today has seen, heard, touched or felt him. I've explained in the past why without sensing Muhammad we cannot testify to him. Please see my thread;
https://www.nairaland.com/2734412/testimonies-give-not-give

Because traditional Muslims insist on this false testimony till the end of the world, they have turned Muhammad into a being existing and living forever, as a god. This is the the only logical inference for their testimony to Muhammad to make any sense. This is the polytheism in testifying to Muhammad.
This has always been my argument with Muslims; you cannot claim absolute monotheism and still be associating partnership between Allah and Mohammed, especially in your daily prayers and saying the shahada. All Islamic prayers involve mentioning Allah and Mohammed and you cant do this and keep claiming monotheism at the same time.
Re: Muslim: Monotheist Vs Anti-monotheist by true2god: 8:32am On Apr 15, 2019
Ultramane:
Veneration & Invocation of Muhammad: Polytheism or Not?

After or during their pilgrimage, most Muslims visit the main mosque at Medina, where Muhammad tomb is said to lie. They stand before this tomb - marked by a dome - and they directly address Muhammad directly with greetings, invoking his intercession and supplicating to God. Here is how this is done;

http://www.2mfm.org/multimedia/islamic-articles/110-al-ziyara
This is simply ancestral worship; worship of the dead or the saints which the Catholics do everyday.
Re: Muslim: Monotheist Vs Anti-monotheist by true2god: 9:10am On Apr 15, 2019
Empiree:
This is ultra modern Salafis ideology you adopted here like Dr. Bilal Philips and he was refuted. I forgot you are now 'ultra'.

you confused?. If you agree that traditional muslims do not worship Muhammad (saw) then you have contradicted yourselves by your later statements. Make up your mind. You boring
There is always a close link between worshipping and venerating a saintly individual like Mohammed (in this scenario). Many a time the Muslims have accused the Christians (the Catholics) of worshipping Mary and the Catholic's response is always that they never worshiped Mary but only venerated her being the 'mother of Jesus'. If Muslims can accuse the Catholics in this area, the Catholics can as well accuse the Muslims of doing same because the emotional connection Muslims have for Mohammed in their daily prayers is more than an ordinary prophet, but a demi-god figure whose supplication is highly needed in order to reach Allah. If this is not shirk, what is it?
Re: Muslim: Monotheist Vs Anti-monotheist by Empiree: 11:41am On Apr 15, 2019
true2god:
There is always a close link between worshipping and venerating a saintly individual like Mohammed (in this scenario). Many a time the Muslims have accused the Christians (the Catholics) of worshipping Mary and the Catholic's response is always that they never worshiped Mary but only venerated her being the 'mother of Jesus'. If Muslims can accuse the Catholics in this area, the Catholics can as well accuse the Muslims of doing same because the emotional connection Muslims have for Mohammed in their daily prayers is more than an ordinary prophet, but a demi-god figure whose supplication is highly needed in order to reach Allah. If this is not shirk, what is it?
why do you think I should engage you on clear cut practices unless you wanna deceive yourself?.

Catholics say "Mary mother of God". Do muslims say this of muhammad?. We only send peace and blessings upon him.
Re: Muslim: Monotheist Vs Anti-monotheist by Ultramane: 12:10pm On Apr 15, 2019
true2god:
This has always been my argument with Muslims; you cannot claim absolute monotheism and still be associating partnership between Allah and Mohammed, especially in your daily prayers and saying the shahada. All Islamic prayers involve mentioning Allah and Mohammed and you cant do this and keep claiming monotheism at the same time.

You get it. There are are a lot of issues. There is no doctrine of trinity but Muhammad is like a diety, only below the rank of Allah. That is why according to traditionalists, he can hear their greetings from his grave and he replies them. Apart from god(s), I don't know of any entity outside the physical world that hears and replies greetings of men. It is like you take away pre-Islamic Arab idols, and put Muhammad in their place.

Note that I did not touch everything polytheistic in traditional Islam. The degree of saint and tomb veneration among Shiites and Sufites is unbelievable for a monotheistic faith. But of the few I touched, even the Salafites, the self declared defenders of tawhid (oneness), are guilty.

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