Dtruthspeaker:


Refusal to accept evidence of God gjven, is proof of atheism.

What do you want?

jaephoenix:

U keep switching labels more than a illicit drug maker

I really don't mind identifying as an agnostic or an atheist.

I don't believe in any god/gods, because I've seen absolutely no evidence for them. And that's my definition of atheism.

For a lot of people, their definition of an atheist is someone who affirms that god/gods do not and cannot exist. For them, the word agnostic helps get my point across more accurately.

HISSCRIBE1995:


I would be better than an atheist who believe there is no God ,because there would be no judgement upon me if the case be as the atheists believes, but not so for all atheist if it be that there is God ,and of course -there is God.
Don't gamble with your eternal destiny!

You're playing a one in a million gamble.. we choose not to play the game at all.. we're not all that different.

The idea of an eternal destiny is one you've made up just to make your own gamble seem more reasonable, which it isn't.

FRANCISTOWN:
Good evening everyone. A guy whose moniker is Jesusjnr2020 about 4 years ago said he will ensure to end atheism on NL.
I want to see how far he has gone.

Therefore, if you're an atheist , kindly signify. Let's see if atheism would really go into oblivion on this platform

I only know of a few atheists.

Former theist here.. now agnostic/atheist.. reporting for duty

MrPresident1:
A 'black' person who calls themselves atheist is essentially a criminal, nothing more, nothing less. A hardened criminal.

You're 'black' ( mentally devolved) and atheist? that's a completely feral ferocious wild 'person' right there

That's a very dangerous person right there before you, capable of indescribable evil

What in the name of holy racism is this?

Dtruthspeaker:


Atheists and lying and rwusting and. like armed robber and weapons

You say I gave no evidence yet with the same mouth you confess I gave something you twist by saying "mention of a cause"

If the issue is "Did a vehicle pass here?" and I show you tyre tracks on the ground in that same place, every reasonable person truly searching for the answer says "thank you, we'll work on it." But not you.

You are not the first atheist here but you are definitely one of the most unreasonable ones

Thanks for the compliments.. really needed those today.

I said you've provided 0 evidence because the things you've put forward don't count as evidence for reasons I've clearly listed before.

My thread on terrible arguments for the existence of god explains my point even more.

A cause is not necessarily a god.. a god can be a cause, but a cause isn't necessarily always a god.

The fact i have to clarify this is somewhat concerning

Dtruthspeaker:


See how you have jumped on a baby christian/churcgoer whereas we have given you evidences outside the bible and you are yet to give any valid rebuttal.

Anyway, we understand because "THERE IS NO VALID ARGUMENT AGAINST THE TRUTH"

You've given me 0 evidence for a god outside the bible.. you've only made mention of a cause.. but you're still yet to show how that cause is in any way a god.

Your best argument is the argument from complexity, which works against the very god/gods you're trying to prove.

If you have some more reasonable proof, I'd be more than happy to indulge

pansophic:
The Proof of God's Existence

Dear Atheists and Agnostics, today we gather to explore the undeniable proof of God's existence.

Grabs chair

Many people question whether God is real or if He truly exists.

He?

They ask for evidence and seek confirmation. Let us dive into the evidence that points to the reality of God's existence.

Firstly, let us turn to the Bible.

You couldn't have picked a worse source to turn to. When searching for the existence of a god/gods, religious texts are about as evidence as Harry potter books are for Harry Potter.

Let me explain.. religious texts, regardless of their claim of inspiration or not, were written, physically, by humans.

When you quote the bible or Quran for example.. you're simply just shifting from saying "hey.. I'm saying a god exists" to "hey, this guy from 3000 years ago said a god exists"

It really doesn't do much to help your case.

Secondly, let us consider the world circumstances. Despite the challenges and struggles we face, we can witness God's hand at work in our lives and in the world around us. We see instances of healing, redemption, and miracles that defy explanation. These are not mere coincidences but rather signs of a higher power at work.

I'm yet to see this God's hand you speak of.. both literally and figuratively

[/quote] Furthermore, consider the transformation that occurs in the lives of those who encounter God. Countless testimonies attest to the power of faith and the positive impact of a relationship with the Lord. Lives are changed, hearts are healed, and hope is restored through the presence of God. [/quote]

I'm yet to see any of these sort of "transformations" that are explicit to a sort of god or deity.

I'm not denying that people cannot have transformations of character.. people do.. for different reasons.. but I don't think it necessarily says anything about the truth of the reason.

Growing up, children hear stories about santa or the tooth fairy that coerce them to act in certain ways.. that doesn't necessarily mean these figures exist

Lastly, let us reflect on the moral compass and the innate sense of justice and right and wrong that exists within each person. This points to a universal moral law that originates from a higher source - God Himself. It is this moral law that guides us and encourages us to seek righteousness.

The alleged moral compasses are highly subjective.. and seem to be based on the society/culture.

Taking your bible for example... there were people who could own slaves.. murder women and children, and so on.. and still be considered righteous. The moral compass seems to not be as objective as you claim.

In conclusion, the proof of God's existence is abundant and undeniable. From the pages of Scripture to the wonders of creation, from the testimony of transformed lives to the fulfillment of prophecies, we see the fingerprints of God all around us. Let us open our hearts to His presence and recognize the signs of His love and power in our lives.

Nextt:


Exactly my point. How did it come to be? Can the process be replicated? Why is the earth rotating on its axis and making a revolution round the sun which we call a year? A car moves and we know why but the planets also move and what fuels their movement? Why does earth support life but other planets don't? Is it a random occurrence or random selection? What made the sun, the earth, the stars? What governs their movement? Can you explain any of these?

Assuming for a second I can't... In what situation does it become appropriate to slap the label of "God" on these things?

You seem to be making an appeal to intelligent design.. or complexity.. or both. Nonetheless, i fail to see how God immediately becomes a suitable explanation for something simply because it is complex.. or because we can't explain it.

Dtruthspeaker:


When we are the only one who makes a product and the only one who can make it, we never badge or trademark or logo them!

There is no need to! And that is Why God is The Only God!

It is the presence of co-creators which makes creators place marks and trademarks and logos on their toys (creations).

But for God, THERE IS NONE. THERE IS NO OTHER AND THERE IS NONE BESIDES HIM!
Hahahahahaha!

Your analogy fails terribly here.

There are more than one entity that claim to be "the God"

While I'm not necessarily saying there should be a logo or something, it is clear that there is still no tangible proof that we were created by one or any of the entities that have claimed to do so

Dtruthspeaker:


I have severally shown you how you were blatantly wrong and you ran away choosing only to reply those whose answers fall into the set piece that you know. Ain't you a statue like the people you accuse?

We've had several disagreements in the past.. most of which happen because you insist on shouting "change of post" or "off point" to anything that slightly deviates from your preconceived line of thinking.

But nonetheless, I have no desire to argue who was wrong and who was right.

@jaephoenix

I've been following a couple of these threads for a while.

I can't help but salute your patience. One of the reasons I've lost motivation to post on here is because it's like talking to a brick wall.

Certain people here who I won't mention, are more interested in just saying something.. anything.

Even when proven blatantly wrong, they just run away from the thread only to repeat their debunked concepts somewhere else.

It's not easy dealing with these. I salute you

ANormalHuman:


Hello again NL... How's it going?

Recently I've been having many questions for atheists and since I don't have any atheist around me, I've decided to come to Nairaland. Maybe you guys will have a suitable answer for me.
And please, it's not to incite insultive arguments. I won't insult anyone here and I'm begging others not to.

Okay, here's my question, and it goes out to Africans:

If there's no God, and the supernatural realm is just a figment of our imagination, then how do we explain these kind of cases —
For instance, a man steals a village property and no one knows about it. The village gathers everyone and asks and there's no response.
The village gives an ultimatum, and after that, the person is to run mad or fall sick or die.
Eventually, after the deadline, someone dies while confessing.

The question is, how does this always work? (If anyone has any experience on this, please share... I'll share mine too)

Personally, my dad had a friend, someone that was always willing to work for him for any little pay. He usually helped us to cut coconuts and everything went smooth, but my dad always gave hints that he's a cunny person.
One fateful day, the man came to the front of our compound and was just sitting by the road, he couldn't speak, he seemed all weak... Many people tried questioning him but no response, he couldn't eat also when we offered, he later came into our compound and was just sitting by the wall.
He later left, and about three days later, he died and decayed on the road.
We later realized that he had stolen something and a charm was sent after the thief.
We later learnt that people didn't want to bury him because of the nature of his death and because if you do, the charm will hit you too.

Our atheists in the house, let's hear from you please...?

Before I start, I'd like to correct a misrepresentation of atheism there.

Atheism doesn't claim there is NO God.. it's simply the lack of belief in one. For me, this is due to a lack of evidence of a god. So to clarify, I'm not saying there's no god, I'm saying there's no evidence of one.

Also I don't know any atheists that say the supernatural is a figment of our imagination.. so I'm wondering where you got that idea from.

Moving on.

You gave several scenarios about things we refer to as juju.. and this is your evidence (or at least part of it) for a god, or supernatural realm. I'll try to take it step by step.

First is the idea of the supernatural. Just because there's something that we can't currently explain, or something that seems bizzare to us, like a charm working on a thief, or someone vanishing in thin air (assuming these things happen) does not in any way prove a god.

Take a step back and look around you. You're on a giant wet rock floating through "empty" space, around an even significantly bigger ball of continuous explosions.

You can get in a giant metal bird weighing several tonnes, and move through the sky faster than any other creature.

How exactly are these somehow less impressive than a charm working on someone? Sure we understand a little bit about gravity and stars, and planes, and almost nothing about charms.

But just because we don't understand the latter, is not reason to plug the god excuse into it.

The word supernatural is just used for things we can't explain yet.

But the unexplainable doesn't prove a god any more than the explainable does. The only thing it proves, is the huge gap in our knowledge.

Also, if charms were as effective as you're purporting, I'm pretty sure a lot of our corrupt politicians would be dead by now. That's not what we see. Instead we see them alive and thriving, so something certainly doesn't add up somewhere.

In summary, the alleged supernatural (things we can't explain) is no more evidence of a god than the natural (things we can explain) are.

Being able to understand something does not necessarily exclude the possibility of a god.. and not being able to understand something does not necessarily include it either.

Aemmyjah:


Your IQ is still in level 1
I mentioned love and wisdom
It is lion ripping deer and acid rain you bring up
Shame

And out of everything I said that's the one thing you understood..

Congratulations

Aemmyjah:


Coming up with his own assumptions and nonsense

Care to point out what assumption i happened to come up with?

Who or what is behind the complexity in the universe if not a superhuman being?

any reason why it has to be "superhuman"? or are you just projecting your anthropomorphic assumptions again?

The things we see in the universe reflects wisdom, love and power. Could this have been a result of blind force or that the universe could bring about all these by itself?

Of course mate. A lion ripping a deer apart clearly reflects love... somehow, the tornadoes of jupiter, the acid rain of venus, and the explosion in stars reflect wisdom... somehow

Is it you that will bring an end to the universe? The universe seems to be developing and heading towards a goal

And this is relevant to the discussion how?

The universe is fine-tuned for life.

Take a moment to step back, think about what you just said, and take a look into the "universe" clearly fine tuned for this life, and come back to re-read what you just wrote.

The laws of physics and the constants of nature are all precisely calibrated to allow for the formation of stars, planets, and life. How will a living being not acknowledge that this is the product of an intelligent mind? Unless he's brain dead.
The universe is vast and complex. It is difficult to imagine that such a complex system could have arisen by chance. Evolution in itself does not bring about complexity

Again... i never claimed evolution brings about complexity. You're strawmanning so hard it's laughable. But what's more interesting here, is that you don't realize these statements apply just as well to your god. Example.

God is incredibly vast and complex. It is difficult to imagine that such a incredibly complex god could have arisen by chance. How can such an incredibly complex god, capable of creating a universe just exist? It must have been caused by an even more intelligent hand.. now follow that line to infinity.

I don't know the exact word for you as eternal means something has no ending or beginning...

Gracias

The universe had a beginning. It's past was not infinite but looking at it and how it's expanding with the order and organizations and systems, even a half brain can tell that someone is behind it and that it will keep lasting. Or u wan tell that that there will be an end to matter, space, planets, stars and time?

2 things here.

1. You've failed to show me how you know that whatever caused the universe must be eternal, and not simply just 150 billion years old, or 1 trillion (long, sure, but not eternal)

2. Hate to break it to you, but stars do die.. none of our models predict that the universe will be here forever. Quite the contrary actually. Although it'll be here for an incredibly long time, it's not forever. I'd suggest you look it up

Aemmyjah:


The Cause of an eternal, infinite universe can only be an Uncaused Being. That is something you can't deny but remain blind...

You're jumping between claiming the universe is eternal, and claiming it isn't. Pick a side.

I understand you don't want to say it but if you believe that life came by accident. That means you believe that the brain is a product of blind chance... Your brain then cannot be correct

Your logic genuinely amazes me.

First of all, i never claimed life came about by "chance".. but second and funniest of all, is that chance and truth are 2 different things.

For example.. the claim as to whether or not the brain is correct is very unrelated to whether it came about by chance or not.

What do you even mean by "the brain is correct"?.. it seems like a pretty lame blanket term to define literally anything.. or perhaps nothing

Aemmyjah:


Lemme ask you 2 questions but I'll answer 1 and leave the other.

Do you have a brain? Yes
Is your brain a product of accident or intelligent design? Yes or No
(Note that one answer would imply you brain is not correct )

This is a weak attempt at a false dichotomy. If you want to know how dumb the question sounds, replace the word "brain", with "god"

Let me help you.

Do you have a god? Yes
Is your god a product of accident or intelligent design?

That's how your question sounds.

Aemmyjah:


Using the law of cause an effect
Before that, you still don't want to have common sense
All the order, organization, complexity, cycles in the universe is not the product of a hand?
Olodo

You're breathing heavily. calm down. No one is fighting you.

I'll try to explain in simple terms for you.

The universe is unbelievably complex, without a doubt. While I accept that, there's no evidence to show that some sort of divine hand or being in particular, caused it. That's just anthropomorphic thinking. In case you don't know what that word means, it means thinking about the "cause" of the universe in light of having human characteristics.

Moving on.

The reason why a god, or higher being would not suffice as an explanation, is because without a doubt as well, you'd agree with me that whatever alleged god you believe was able to cause the universe would also need to be incredibly complex as well...

so the question of complexity is not really answered. Its just pushed a step further and we're left asking what caused the complexity of the god.

Back to the law of Cause and Effect
The universe has a beginning and is NOT eternal
The universe cannot be the cause of its own existence.
The universe cannot be caused by nothing either

Made a small correction for you there. Also, I never claimed the universe came from nothing, or is the cause of its own existence.

It was either caused by something eternal or someone eternal- An Uncaused, Timeless Creator...

Now hold up there buckeroo. There are several blaring problems with your conclusion.

1. there's no reason to believe that the cause of the universe is eternal. If the universe is 14 billion years old, what stops the cause from being 50 billion, or just 15 billion? What evidence is there that suggests that the cause MUST be eternal?

How would you even go about verifying if something were eternal or not? It just seems like a pointless claim, like omnipotence or omniscience.

2. There's also no reason to believe that the cause of the universe must be a someone, talk less of that someone being singular.. but i won't get too much into that.

We don't even know the beginning to time and space but we accept these even though it is too wonderful to comprehend
It is the concept of the Creator that you want to understand and answer your questions

Irrational atheist with rational thinking in an irrational planet
It is the concept of the

I don't understand what you mean by "we don't know the beginning of time and space." Care to expatiate?

Also, since when did we start "accepting" things we don't understand? Who is the "we" in this situation, because I sure as hell didn't get the memo.

Aemmyjah:


How does evolution bring about complexity?
You should answer that na

Where did i mention evolution, and where did i ever mention that it answers the question of complexity?

If you want to grab at straws, you'll need to do better

Aemmyjah:


Whether Creator or creatorsssssss

The universe give evidence that it was the work of a hand

The universe gives no evidence that it was the work of a "hand" any more than a "higher being" who you refer to as a creator would be evidence that itself was the work of a greater hand.

I can break if down further for you if you'd like.. but that's essentially it.

What you're trying to explore is the problem of complexity.. and a god doesn't nearly answer that question

jaephoenix:

Does lack of belief equate to denial of facts?
Lemme break it down. If you say I as an atheist 'lack' belief in hsgdjc, are you saying there is actually evidence that hsgdjc exists but I simply lack such evidence?

Not quite. I think it depends on the definition of hsgdjc.. in regard to god, the title, when most people use the word, they refer to some sort of higher human-like (for some reason) conscious being/beings responsible for creating or causing the universe.

The issue with the claim of a god is that the information we would need to verify what exactly caused our universe lies outside the universe.. and that's even assuming there's an outside.

we know our current universe began 14 billion years ago... or should I say expanded from its minute form via the big bang.

The claims about a god/gods usually fall before that, for example, people may claim a god is the agent that created the infinitesimal point from which the universe emerged. Others may claim a god/gods is the reason why any sort of thing, be it things like inflation and whatnot would exist at all.

Of course, there's no way to currently prove that, neither is there any sort of evidence to suggest that the universe was caused by such a thing... and as I've addressed in my thread on complexity, a god wouldn't really answer the question of why something exists rather than nothing.

Also, when i use the word god in this context, I'm not referring to any specific religious deity, but rather the title and what it usually entails for most people in regard to the creation of the universe.

Maynman:

Some people's gods are stones, water, tree etc, and they all exist.
But if you are talking about monotheistic gods, then they only exist inside books that they were written on.
Also, "god" is a title not a person, is like saying "does teacher exist" "teacher" does not exist, we have people that teach that are called teachers, same with this god, which "thing" are you calling a god that exist, what qualifies this "thing" to be a god?
all theisitic religions have a specific name of their deity.

Exactly... the word "god" is a title. I was referring more specifically to the title that tends to imply a sort of conscious higher being, or beings as the reason for the universe.

jaephoenix:

So you completed the spectrum. Interesting…
Like I said in that thread, agnosticism is a spectrum with you on the atheist end of it while AOO1, Triplechoice, Workch and that op scattered on it. That op in that thread is at the theist end. And also this op: A step away from theism

I don't usually shy away from the title "atheist", but for a lot of people, the word doesn't mean the same thing it means for me.

To me, an atheist is someone who lacks the belief in a god/gods. A stunning number of other people see atheism as the claim that god/gods do not, and cannot exist.

Because of that, I tend to identify as agnostic, to avoid the headache of people misrepresenting my position.

gisevak:

The creator should be rightly used instead of god or gods. It is highly not logical to just hastily conclude while seeing evidence of creations.

why THE creator? why not the creators? when you say creator, what are you referring to, and how is it different from a god? I'd like to know so i understand what you mean

MaxInDHouse:

So you're an atheist right?

i lack the belief in a god... so i guess yeah

MaxInDHouse:


Are you responding as an atheist?

Affirmative

gisevak:
How do atheists explain the origin of consciousness in the universe, and what are their views on the human existence and cosmic evolution?

.

In regard to the origin of consciousness, cosmic evolution and so on, the anticlimactic answer is simply that we don't know.. and we don't claim to.

These are questions no one quite knows the answer to yet. While people have tried to plug several things like god/gods into the equation, they've failed to provide any evidence of such.

And although we search for the answers to these questions, we simply haven't found them yet.. so we simply don't know

GLHHub:


I don't know how you managed to reply me without actually reading what I wrote.

Read well, I think I've answered most of your questions sufficiently.

that's my line

GLHHub:

Yh... At the rate I'm going, the evidences just keep bombarding me, I don't even search

If you claim there are evidences "bombarding" you, then isn't this the case of simply trying to deny reality on your part?

Haha, right.
I've prayed for myself before and gotten healed,
I've prayed for mom, for strangers, they got healed.
My family has prayed before and seen objects move right before my eyes.
Back in school, God had shown me what not to read in test, and I didn't bother myself further, and the question didn't appear in test.
Oh hold on, I've asked God to wake me up at a certain time, and I literally woke up to a loud voice calling my nickname...

Even if you somehow prove that the Bible isn't legit stuff and all that, I'm sorry but I have personal experiences to hold on to. Same with other true Christians.
So we read the lines of the books, searched for the God behind the book and eventually found Him, and we had our personal experiences...
So you wanna attack the book? Fine, but disprove our personal experiences too.
And yes there are people that don't have experiences amd they're still searching, I pray they find some.
They can question the Bible, but not me.

Very interesting points raised here. But that doesn't answer my question. Not even slightly.

While I could go into the many flaws of your healing and praying and exams analogy, I'll permit it for the sake of this discussion.

So assuming they're true, what part of you praying to be woken up and waking up actually confirms the stories written in the bible?

Put simply, what part of your alarm request confirms that a red sea was parted, or that the sun stood still for 3 days?

If a muslim prays the same prayer and gets the same result (and I'm sure millions have), does that mean muhammad indeed split the moon in 2, and rode on a horse to heaven, and spoke with Jibril?

If a hindu experiences the same (and I'm sure millions similarly have), does that mean shiva and vishnu are indeed the gods of the universe rather than yahweh?

In what way does the arbitrary events you've described validate any of the claims made in the bible?

Ehm... This was exactly my point when I asked that question, but the other way round.

If humans are actually lying about the existence of a God. Why can't they lie against a moon landing?

If you believe the moon landing, then there's no excuse for you not to believe the existence of God.

Your reasoning here is also faulty. First of all, it tries to paint the situation as if people who accept scientific-backed information, like the moon landing, are doing so on nothing more than blind faith. Which is quite the opposite of what science-backed is.

There are several lines of strong evidence that suggest the moon landing could not have been faked. But that aside, let's assume for one second that we have reason to doubt EVERYTHING. Moon landings, birds, space, and of course, GOD.

So how do we then go about ascertaining information on what is real and what is not? At the end of the day, you don't just believe in A because you believe in B like you said earlier. Rather, you apply the necessary methods to determine the nature of reality. That's how you gain knowledge

GLHHub:


Okay.

But for the part of your question, I said I'll probably not answer it, but let me now answer.

1. I don't believe anyone has actually been to the moon so I'm not sure how if earthquakes actually happen or not, on the moon.

I feel like its important to point out that landing humans on the moon and moonquakes are 2 very independent things. you don't need to land a human somewhere to detect quakes. Surprise, we've also detected quakes on mars.

2. I didn't say that every natural disaster must be caused by sin. Here's how I'll put it:
There's a punishment for every sin. A natural disaster may be the punishment. It may kill you or destroyed something you cherish.
Sometimes, the act of being in the wrong place and at the wrong time will make a person vulnerable to a disaster, not necessarily that the disaster happened because of the person.

So in that case how do you differentiate the natural disaster that's supposed to be a product of being in the wrong place at the wrong time, from the natural disaster that's brought about by sin? What classification method are you using here?

3. Fun Fact: I even believe that humans in power can cause an earthquake.
Sorry but I believe many things

GLHHub:


Keep this statement to yourself.
Atheists gave me enough reasons to doubt.
This is why I always tell you atheists to keep up with conspiracy theories, that's the only thing that will save you all, since you refuse to walk with a Saviour.
Learn every conspiracy, then sieve through and know what to accept with time.



Your response is aiming to start another discussion entirely... The authenticity of a moon landing (amongst many other lies).

By the way, let me trouble the waters further...
What exactly makes you to believe that enemies can't agree together in lies?
I mean, haven't you had to cover-up for your enemy back in secondary school days because telling a truth will blow both of your covers?

“The same knowledge and technology that allows you to use your cell phone is what made the moon landing possible” See how wise you sound?

You even believe that there's a planet called Mars?
We have a long way to go...

there's something i find genuinely funny about this sort of reasoning. And that is that the people making these statements like you completely exclude their respective religious texts when it comes to such criticism.

I don't think it's wrong to doubt anything. If there's any scientific detail you doubt, you are more than welcome to doubt, and search for the proof if you so desire.

But what I find extremely funny is that you don't apply this same logic to your bible. On what basis do you believe that any of the claims made in the book are actually true?

If you believe humans can lie about moon landings, what stops them from lying about the things you believe are written in your bible?

GLHHub:


Mind you, I didn't say anything much to assert what I believe (even though I believe it).
So I'll probably not answer that question.

But my question for you: On what grounds do you believe that people have landed on the moon?

I hope you believe in video editing and CGI, so what makes you so sure that this moon landing isn't one of those?

this seems like an attempt to evade my question. And as you've rightfully said, you'll not be answering it.

following your logic, I'd advise against making statements you're not able to assert. statements like "natural disasters happen because of people's sin"... because then they become just claims, without a shred of evidence to back them up.

In regard to the moon landing, I have no desire to shift the topic of this current thread to that. If you're curious about it, you can carry out research, and/or open a separate thread where I'm sure several people here will be happy to engage with.