Happy Sunday beautiful people

So I'll get straight to the point. Sin.

It's the one thing God can't stand. The one thing that goes against his nature so much, that an iota of it warrants him to burn you for all eternity. You get the drift.

How did sin come into this world? Well, through Adam and Eve of course. They ate a fruit and it pissed the big sky daddy off.

They had corrupted his perfect design and whatnot. And what does God do?

Being an all knowing God, who is supposed to know the end from the beginning.. he knew they would sin and still made them... But let's not dwell on that.

God also knew, that the very thing he hated, which was sin, would be multiplied millions of folds if Adam and Eve bore children. So what did he do?

A. Make Eve barren so sin stops then and there
B. Allow the population of the world, and the sin he so hates, to increase literally billions of folds, so he can send himself to get shanked on a cross a couple thousand years later.

Well.. the answer is unfortunately B. The Christian God seems to have one of the worst damage control measures known to humanity.

It's the equivalent of seeing a small fire in your kitchen, having the ability to put it out right there, but sitting idly by and letting the entire house catch on fire, only to send a bucket of water when the house is about to collapse.

If God hates sin so much, why didn't he get rid of it during the time of Adam and Eve? Why let the thing you hate so much multiply exponentially.. even though you had the power to stop it??

If you had an infection, would you let it consume your entire body before treating it?

If such an action makes absolutely no sense in the real world, then why does it make sense in your religion??

Dtruthspeaker.. it's been a while since you insulted me.. this should do it

MaxinDhouse .. feel free to jump in on this as well

elated177 .. feel free to issue your threats

All other contributions are also highly welcome

Life is a mystery. I don’t fvck with anything. I just know God is the greatest

InvestorVee:
Life is a mystery. I don’t fvck with anything. I just know God is the greatest

Ok.. How does life being a mystery address the situation presented above?

Satan challenged God that's why

ChocolateWine:
Satan challenged God that's why

What an all knowing god he is

Maynmann:


What an all knowing god he is

All knowing doesn't mean acting with impulse.

Where in the bible did you read he's all knowing btw?

ChocolateWine:


All knowing doesn't mean acting with impulse.

Where in the bible did you read he's all knowing btw?

What does all knowing got to do with impulse?
He already knew what will happen, why acting surprised?

Your deity is not all knowing but he is almighty?, no wonder he keeps regretting.
And if he is not all knowing how could he have created everything? Or he created and forgot it?

It’s true though your Israelite god, yahweh is not all knowing seems his father EL is.

Maynmann:


What does all knowing got to do with impulse?
He already knew what will happen, why acting surprised?

Your deity is not all knowing but he is almighty?, no wonder he keeps regretting.
And if he is not all knowing how could he have created everything? Or he created and forgot it?

It’s true though your Israelite god, yahweh is not all knowing seems his father EL is.

Where in the bible did you read he's all knowing btw? Answer that.

The fact I'm powerful doesn't mean I'll carry all big rocks I see.

ChocolateWine:


Where in the bible did you read he's all knowing btw? Answer that.

The fact I'm powerful doesn't mean I'll carry all big rocks I see.

Was the Bible written in English?
How’s your deity almighty, but not all knowing?

Is all your “all powerful” talking about sheer strength?

Maynmann:


Was the Bible written in English?
How’s your deity almighty, but not all knowing?

Is all your “all powerful” talking about sheer strength?

No sense of logic. Thought you had one. Bye.

ChocolateWine:


No sense of logic. Thought you had one. Bye.

Coming From a retar,ded yaldaboath worshipper?
Hope you are obeying your watchtower masters, we both know your salvation depends on them.

Wilgrea7:


Ok.. How does life being a mystery address the situation presented above?

it does. humans we are till after death. no ones knows the real truth.

ChocolateWine:
Satan challenged God that's why

Challenged him to what exactly? What sort of challenge requires you to not only tolerate something you hate, but to let it multiply... exponentially.. especially when that challenge is from your enemy.. someone who tried to overthrow you

If your sworn enemy told you to drink pee, or swallow a grenade as a challenge, would you do it?

The challenge excuse makes no sense. And that's ignoring the absurdity of the whole Satan story.

Like.. out of the literally trillions of planets and astronomical bodies.. you send Satan.. your enemy.. down to the one tiny planet where you also coincidentally placed your “precious creation"

Seriously??

Wilgrea7:


Challenged him to what exactly? What sort of challenge requires you to not only tolerate something you hate, but to let it multiply... exponentially.. especially when that challenge is from your enemy.. someone who tried to overthrow you

If your sworn enemy told you to drink pee, or swallow a grenade as a challenge, would you do it?

The challenge excuse makes no sense. And that's ignoring the absurdity of the whole Satan story.

Like.. out of the literally trillions of planets and astronomical bodies.. you send Satan.. your enemy.. down to the one tiny planet where you also coincidentally placed your “precious creation"

Seriously??

Be objective.

First Satan was a good angel at the start, an important member of God's creatures.

He challenged God that he was not the best ruler for humans. That his kids would do better without him and could rule over themselves.

After all he did for our first parents, Adam and Eve they chose to listen to the devil, who they didn't know or hasn't done anything in their lives. (How heartbreaking that must be.)

If he killed the first coup d'etat plotters many more angels may have felt their colleague was right and rise to challenge his authority......

From here you might be able to fill the rest of the gaps.

InvestorVee:
it does. humans we are till after death. no ones knows the real truth.

You do understand how dangerous this “mystery" game you're playing is right?

Imagine the number of illogical or downright abhorrent things that could be passed of as “mysteries"

A God who claims to hate sin does absolutely nothing to stop it... Mystery
A God commands his people to commit acts of genocide.. and stone people to death for unworthy crimes... Mystery

If the same God commanded people to kill their first children and place their heads on sticks in front of their houses.. you'd still classify it as a mystery.

You cannot continue to use appeals to mystery to excuse illogical or downright dumb things found in your holy book.

Mystery is not an excuse.. it's a copout.. and a bad one at that.

ChocolateWine:


Be objective.

First Satan was a good angel at the start, an important member of God's creatures.

He challenged God that he was not the best ruler for humans. That his kids would do better without him and could rule over themselves.

After all he did for our first parents, Adam and Eve they chose to listen to the devil, who they didn't know or hasn't done anything in their lives. (How heartbreaking that must be.)

If he killed the first coup d'etat plotters many more angels may have felt their colleague was right and rise to challenge his authority......

From here you might be able to fill the rest of the gaps.

He challenged your deity, and your deity won right, and yet there’s so much sin. Are you sure your deity really won?

Wilgrea7:
Happy Sunday beautiful people

So I'll get straight to the point. Sin.

It's the one thing God can't stand. The one thing that goes against his nature so much, that an iota of it warrants him to burn you for all eternity. You get the drift.

How did sin come into this world? Well, through Adam and Eve of course. They ate a fruit and it pissed the big sky daddy off.

They had corrupted his perfect design and whatnot. And what does God do?

Being an all knowing God, who is supposed to know the end from the beginning.. he knew they would sin and still made them... But let's not dwell on that.

God also knew, that the very thing he hated, which was sin, would be multiplied millions of folds if Adam and Eve bore children. So what did he do?

A. Make Eve barren so sin stops then and there
B. Allow the population of the world, and the sin he so hates, to increase literally billions of folds, so he can send himself to get shanked on a cross a couple thousand years later.

Well.. the answer is unfortunately B. The Christian God seems to have one of the worst damage control measures known to humanity.

It's the equivalent of seeing a small fire in your kitchen, having the ability to put it out right there, but sitting idly by and letting the entire house catch on fire, only to send a bucket of water when the house is about to collapse.

If God hates sin so much, why didn't he get rid of it during the time of Adam and Eve? Why let the thing you hate so much multiply exponentially.. even though you had the power to stop it??

If you had an infection, would you let it consume your entire body before treating it?

If such an action makes absolutely no sense in the real world, then why does it make sense in your religion??

Isaiah 45:18

For this is what the LORD says— he who created the heavens, he is God; he who fashioned and made the earth, he founded it; he did not create it to be empty, but formed it to be inhabited— he says: “I am the LORD, and there is no other.

God's original purpose was to use man to punish Satan for his arrogance. He created man out of clay, and put Satan under the dominion of that clay.

That's why Satan attacked the garden to steal the dominion away, and cause God to choose your option A. If God had chosen your option A, Satan has defeated God. Then, all the efforts He made in creating the world would go to waste.

God decided to let devil see that His purpose would still prevail in spite of man's failure. So, humanity continued with a later plan to restore man, and then create a new heaven and a new earth. At that time, Satan would be judged after being given enough time and opportunity to repent.

ChocolateWine:


Be objective.

First Satan was a good angel at the start, an important member of God's creatures.

He challenged God that he was not the best ruler for humans. That his kids would do better without him and could rule over themselves.

For humans? I thought it was generally accepted that Satan's rebellion occured before the creation of man.. anyways.. I'll play along.

After all he did for our first parents, Adam and Eve they chose to listen to the devil, who they didn't know or hasn't done anything in their lives. (How heartbreaking that must be.)

And how exactly is that an excuse to not stop sin?

If he killed the first coup d'etat plotters many more angels may have felt their colleague was right and rise to challenge his authority......

What?? How exactly does this follow? During the coup, satan took a third of the angels with him to fight against God.. a fight which he lost.

What logical person sees someone try to overthrow their master, chooses to fight for said master, and then decides that the murder of the rebel is somehow a bad thing?

The analogy really doesn't follow

That also ignores the points i made earlier.

1. Why send Satan to the one planet.. out of the trillions in the universe.. the one planet where you keep your precious creation?

If someone who you knew was a terrible person, told you they would be a better parent than you to your children, and then they tried to fight you and kill you.. would you then send that person to raise your children.. who you care about.. to prove a point?

If anyone did that, we'd call them crazy and irresponsible.. but your God is completely Holy and good for doing so.

2. It does nothing to address your God's choice to let sin multiply. The deed has been done.. sin, which you hate so much, has entered the world through 2 people.

Why not stop it there? Why not make eve barren, so sin stops then and there? Why let it continue? What sort of a stupid bet warrants you to allow someone else destroy something you care about?

That's like the parent not only allowing the crazy enemy to raise his children, but to infect them with a disease that would multiply in their descendants as time goes on. All the while sitting back and watching it happen.. while claiming to care?? Who does that?

If your enemy told you they could care for a garden more than you.. and they proceeded to destroy 2 plants.. would you stand by and watch them destroy every other plant, while having the ability to stop the destruction and simultaneously claiming you hate the destruction??

You asked me to be objective.. please... Be objective

How does a failed coup justify you letting the thing you hate so much increase in billions of folds??

RoyalDiadems:


Isaiah 45:18

For this is what the LORD says— he who created the heavens, he is God; he who fashioned and made the earth, he founded it; he did not create it to be empty, but formed it to be inhabited— he says: “I am the LORD, and there is no other.

God's original purpose was to use man to punish Satan for his arrogance. He created man out of clay, and put Satan under the dominion of that clay.

Nowhere in the verse you quoted, did it state that God wanted to use man to punish satan for his arrogance. Not to mention, and I say this with no offense, but it sounds like a really stupid plan.

You think it would be a good idea to put the one dude who had the ability to make 1/3 of your angels revolt in the same place as your infant, weak creation? That's like putting your sworn enemy in the same place as your child, and expecting the child, who has neither the knowledge or the ability, to subdue your sworn enemy, who was able to take away 1/3 of your army.

That's why Satan attacked the garden to steal the dominion away, and cause God to choose your option A. If God had chosen your option A, Satan has defeated God. Then, all the efforts He made in creating the world would go to waste.

God decided to let devil see that His purpose would still prevail in spite of man's failure. So, humanity continued with a later plan to restore man, and then create a new heaven and a new earth. At that time, Satan would be judged after being given enough time and opportunity to repent.

How on earth does satan win in this situation? The person who wanted to destroy your creation succeeds in ruining the first 2, so you let him ruin billions more? That's like having a garden, where you just planted 2 new flowers, and having your enemy infect those flowers with a terrible parasite.

What sort of sensible gardener would let the infected flowers breed more and more infected flowers, going to the billions, while simultaneously saying he hates the infection? In what way is stopping the infection and planting new fresh flowers a loss? And somehow letting the infection multiply a billion folds is not??

Wilgrea7:


For humans? I thought it was generally accepted that Satan's rebellion occured before the creation of man.. anyways.. I'll play along.

Before creation of man? Please where did you read that?

And how exactly is that an excuse to not stop sin?
What?? How exactly does this follow? During the coup, satan took a third of the angels with him to fight against God.. a fight which he lost.

It's appears you mistook the fight between the angels and devil, with the demons as the coup. That was the demons resisting throwing them away from heaven.

The coup happened when Adam and Eve led by the Devil chose to disobey God and resist his authority thereby trying to overthrow his sovereignty.

What logical person sees someone try to overthrow their master, chooses to fight for said master, and then decides that the murder of the rebel is somehow a bad thing?

Again the logic doesn't add here. That wasn't a coup.

The analogy really doesn't follow

That also ignores the points i made earlier.

1. Why send Satan to the one planet.. out of the trillions in the universe.. the one planet where you keep your precious creation?

If someone who you knew was a terrible person, told you they would be a better parent than you to your children, and then they tried to fight you and kill you.. would you then send that person to raise your children.. who you care about.. to prove a point?

If anyone did that, we'd call them crazy and irresponsible.. but your God is completely Holy and good for doing so.

2. It does nothing to address your God's choice to let sin multiply. The deed has been done.. sin, which you hate so much, has entered the world through 2 people.

Why not stop it there? Why not make eve barren, so sin stops then and there? Why let it continue? What sort of a stupid bet warrants you to allow someone else destroy something you care about?

That's like the parent not only allowing the crazy enemy to raise his children, but to infect them with a disease that would multiply in their descendants as time goes on. All the while sitting back and watching it happen.. while claiming to care?? Who does that?

If your enemy told you they could care for a garden more than you.. and they proceeded to destroy 2 plants.. would you stand by and watch them destroy every other plant, while having the ability to stop the destruction and simultaneously claiming you hate the destruction??

You asked me to be objective.. please... Be objective

How does a failed coup justify you letting the thing you hate so much increase in billions of folds??

Wrong premise. That wasnt a coup.

He was sent down to earth cos that was where the challenge was thrown open. Humans with devil against God.

Like I mentioned before how many people would he have killed. You yourself talked about other rebellious angels who joined Satan's side. More and more rebels would have come up.

Even today some people would still rebel against God even if he gave them the whole world.

Remember, sin is not caused by Satan. Sin simply means disobey God. Don't confuse being imperfect to being a sinner.

Angels can commit sin. Jesus can commit sin but they chose not to disobey God.

We are more susceptible to sin. That's imperfection.

Angels consciously sin. Adam and Eve consciously sin. But imperfect humans most times don't consciously sin due to their fallen flesh (that's tendency to sin)

Note that we have choices. Every human whether perfect, imperfect or angels chooses to serve God or not. And then bear its consequences.

That choice was open to Adam and Eve and they lost it. It is now open to every human today, albeit in a less convenient condition like our first parents had.

ChocolateWine:


Before creation of man? Please where did you read that?

So you're saying it was after? Ok.. I'll still play along.

It's appears you mistook the fight between the angels and devil, with the demons as the coup. That was the demons resisting throwing them away from heaven.

The coup happened when Adam and Eve led by the Devil chose to disobey God and resist his authority thereby trying to overthrow his sovereignty.

Let me get this straight. The battle by satan to overthrow God with a third of the angels is not a coup? But satan deceiving humans to disobey God is the coup? Am I missing the definition of coup in this situation?

How is an act of disobedience more of a threat to sovereignty, than actually trying to dethrone somebody? That's like someone trying to impeach a king through forceful means, and then after losing, deceiving the king's infant child to disobey him.. And somehow, the literal attempt at dethroning is not the coup, but the disobedience?? How??

Wrong premise. That wasnt a coup.

He was sent down to earth cos that was where the challenge was thrown out.

You keep making reference to the so called challenge. You've not explained what made the challenge a logical one. I gave the example of the parent and the child... and the garden to show why simply accepting any challenge, makes no sense.

Like I mentioned before how many people would he have killed. You yourself talked about other rebellious angels who joined Satan's side. More and more rebels would have come up.

Even today some people would still rebel against God even if he gave them the whole world.

So he didn't want to kill... And somehow letting his enemy wreak an astronomical amount of havoc on his creation is somehow a better alternative? He couldn't maybe send satan to another planet, or straight to hell? He had to accept a challenge bound to destroy his creation to prove a point?

And after the fall, he couldn't seal the deal there and stop it? He had to let the bet, which he obviously should have never agreed to, and went on to lose, go on, and multiply by billions of times? How do you not see the problem with this?

Remember, sin is not caused by Satan. Sin simply means disobey God. Don't confuse being imperfect to being a sinner.

Angels can commit sin. Jesus can commit sin but they chose not to disobey God.

We are more susceptible to sin. That's imperfection.

Angels consciously sin. Adam and Eve consciously sin. But imperfect humans most times don't consciously sin due to their fallen flesh (that's tendency to sin)

Note that we have choices. Every human whether perfect, imperfect or angels. Choices to serve God or not. And then bear its consequences.

That choice was open to Adam and Eve and they lost it. It is now open to every human today, albeit in a less convenient condition like our first parents had.

Ma'am... we're saying the same thing. After the fall of man, we became more susceptible to sin.. and God couldn't fix things at the fall, he literally allowed the beings who are more prone to disobeying them due to their fallen nature, to multiply into the billions, while claiming he hates sin?

If your enemy put a virus in your computer that makes it more prone to blowing up.. would it not make more sense to fix the virus there an then, rather than let it spread to billions of other computers which will be made as copies of your explosive-prone computer? Please, make it make sense.

What sort of logic makes you allow a faulty copy multiply a billion times, while also claiming to hate the fault with passion? I fail to see the correlation.

Wilgrea7:


So you're saying it was after? Ok.. I'll still play along.

Revelation 12:9,12

Let me get this straight. The battle by satan to overthrow God with a third of the angels is not a coup? But satan deceiving humans to disobey God is the coup? Am I missing the definition of coup in this situation?

How is an act of disobedience more of a threat to sovereignty, than actually trying to dethrone somebody? That's like someone trying to impeach a king through forceful means, and then after losing, deceiving the king's infant child to disobey him.. And somehow, the literal attempt at dethroning is not the coup, but the disobedience?? How??

Please let's stop playing with words. I was the one that introduced the word coup d'etat here.

And I was referring to this incidence at Gen 3:1-5 simple. This place he turned his subjects Adam and Eve against him. Hence God sent Adam exiled him from the garden.

You keep making reference to the so called challenge. You've not explained what made the challenge a logical one. I gave the example of the parent and the child... and the garden to show why simply accepting any challenge, makes no sense.

So he didn't want to kill... And somehow letting his enemy wreak an astronomical amount of havoc on his creation is somehow a better alternative? He couldn't maybe send satan to another planet, or straight to hell? He had to accept a challenge bound to destroy his creation to prove a point?

And after the fall, he couldn't seal the deal there and stop it? He had to let the bet, which he obviously should have never agreed to, and went on to lose, go on, and multiply by billions of times? How do you not see the problem with this?
Ma'am... we're saying the same thing. After the fall of man, we became more susceptible to sin.. and God couldn't fix things at the fall, he literally allowed the beings who are more prone to disobeying them due to their fallen nature, to multiply into the billions, while claiming he hates sin?

If your enemy put a virus in your computer that makes it more prone to blowing up.. would it not make more sense to fix the virus there an then, rather than let it spread to billions of other computers which will be made as copies of your explosive-prone computer? Please, make it make sense.

What sort of logic makes you allow a faulty copy multiply a billion times, while also claiming to hate the fault with passion? I fail to see the correlation.

"Imagine that a teacher is telling his students how to solve a difficult maths problem.

Then a clever but rebellious student claims that the teacher’s way of solving the problem is wrong. Implying that the teacher is not capable, this rebel insists that he knows a much better way to solve the problem.

Some students think that he is right, and they also become rebellious. What should the teacher do? If you're the teacher what would you do?

ChocolateWine:


Revelation 12:9,12

Ok.. Noted.

Please let's stop playing with words. I was the one that introduced the word coup d'etat here.

And I was referring to this incidence at Gen 3:1-5 simple. This place he turned his subjects Adam and Eve against him. Hence God sent Adam exiled him from the garden.

You cannot simultaneously introduce a word, and yet make it mean something else from what the word itself initially means.

Coup, or coup d'etat, means to overthrow a government, or authority, often with the use of force. By that definition, the disobedience of adam and eve cannot be a coup. Their decision did not in any way, pose a threat to God's sovereignty, nor did it attempt to use any sort of force to do so.

Satan's rebellion on the other had, fits both criteria. I don't see how this should be a bone of contention tho. Let's just agree to disagree, since the meaning of the word is not the main topic of our discussion.

"Imagine that a teacher is telling his students how to solve a difficult maths problem.

Then a clever but rebellious student claims that the teacher’s way of solving the problem is wrong. Implying that the teacher is not capable, this rebel insists that he knows a much better way to solve the problem.

Some students think that he is right, and they also become rebellious. What should the teacher do? If you're the teacher what would you do?

Wrong analogy. The student teacher example is not in any way similar to the biblical story of creation and the fall. I've seen it used by theists before, but it fails at representing the situation.

Let me fix it for you.

A teacher is in a classroom, and a student, challenges his way of solving the problem. Some students agree with him and try to forcefully eject the teacher from the classroom. They fail. The teacher, is dumb enough to send the exiled students to another class, much lower than theirs, as a bet, to prove the exiled students are wrong.

Most people would stop here and call the teacher a bad and irresponsible teacher... but let's continue

The exiled students go on to the much lower class, where the students there have far less power and reasoning capacity than the ones in his class, and then deceives them and teaches them the wrong thing, which leads to problems.

The teacher sees that the lower grade students, who happen to be only 2 at the time, have been taught the wrong thing. And oh, does this teacher hate wrong teachings.

And rather than correct them and stop the wrong teaching there and then, and also punish the older students for having failed and corrupted his younger grade students, he lets the corrupted younger grade students multiply exponentially, giving rise to billions of younger grade students who carry around the very corrupt teachings he said he hates.

There.. I fixed it for you. Justify that.

Wilgrea7:

Dtruthspeaker.. it's been a while since you insulted me.. this should do it

MaxinDhouse .. feel free to jump in on this as well

elated177 .. feel free to issue your threats

All other contributions are also highly welcome

God told Adam and Eve rebellion will lead to their death {Genesis 2:17} they rebelled and God had to allow enough time for Adam's descendants to see the consequences of their parent's rebellion.

That's why God ordered His angels to allow mankind do whatever pleases them after all they chose to rule over themselves rather than submitting to His sovereignty!

Wilgrea7:


You do understand how dangerous this “mystery" game you're playing is right?

Imagine the number of illogical or downright abhorrent things that could be passed of as “mysteries"

A God who claims to hate sin does absolutely nothing to stop it... Mystery
A God commands his people to commit acts of genocide.. and stone people to death for unworthy crimes... Mystery

If the same God commanded people to kill their first children and place their heads on sticks in front of their houses.. you'd still classify it as a mystery.

You cannot continue to use appeals to mystery to excuse illogical or downright dumb things found in your holy book.

Mystery is not an excuse.. it's a copout.. and a bad one at that.

i thought i was talking to a sensible man. fvck up dead meat

InvestorVee:

i thought i was talking to a sensible man. fvck up dead meat

He just feel like arguing or debating religion for no tangible reason!

InvestorVee:
i thought i was talking to a sensible man. fvck up dead meat

Yeah.. because being sensible involves insulting the other party in a discussion.

Move along sir

Wilgrea7:


Ok.. Noted.



You cannot simultaneously introduce a word, and yet make it mean something else from what the word itself initially means.

Coup, or coup d'etat, means to overthrow a government, or authority, often with the use of force. By that definition, the disobedience of adam and eve cannot be a coup. Their decision did not in any way, pose a threat to God's sovereignty, nor did it attempt to use any sort of force to do so.

Satan's rebellion on the other had, fits both criteria. I don't see how this should be a bone of contention tho. Let's just agree to disagree, since the meaning of the word is not the main topic of our discussion.

Gen 3:1-6 5 “For God knows that when you eat from it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.”

The couple wanted to be like God. That in no way posed a threat to God's sovereignty?

Wrong analogy. The student teacher example is not in any way similar to the biblical story of creation and the fall. I've seen it used by theists before, but it fails at representing the situation.

Let me fix it for you.

A teacher is in a classroom, and a student, challenges his way of solving the problem. Some students agree with him and try to forcefully eject the teacher from the classroom. They fail. The teacher, is dumb enough to send the exiled students to another class, much lower than theirs, as a bet, to prove the exiled students are wrong.

Most people would stop here and call the teacher a bad and irresponsible teacher... but let's continue

The exiled students go on to the much lower class, where the students there have far less power and reasoning capacity than the ones in his class, and then deceives them and teaches them the wrong thing, which leads to problems.

The teacher sees that the lower grade students, who happen to be only 2 at the time, have been taught the wrong thing. And oh, does this teacher hate wrong teachings.

And rather than correct them and stop the wrong teaching there and then, and also punish the older students for having failed and corrupted his younger grade students, he lets the corrupted younger grade students multiply exponentially, giving rise to billions of younger grade students who carry around the very corrupt teachings he said he hates.

There.. I fixed it for you. Justify that.

Fix the example for me? You're fixing it for yourself to fit your narrative.

Before you claimed rebellion happended before humans. Now that's fixed.

Now you're claiming that's the reason the devil wants to sack God from heaven or what?

Humans where no longer under God's rule after they disobeyed him. How hard is that to explain?

ChocolateWine:

Gen 3:1-6 5 “For God knows that when you eat from it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.”

The couple wanted to be like God. That in no way posed a threat to God's sovereignty?

I'm sorry.. but how are you not seeing that the very verse you quoted is saying the exact same thing I was trying to say. It says "You will be like God, knowing good and evil".

It is clearly defined there, that the proposed god-like qualities in that verse is not ruling over the heavens and the earth and whatnot. It's knowing good and evil.

The verse didn't say "for you will be like God, ruler of the universe".. It clearly stated the qualities of God it was referring to. None of which are a threat to sovereignty. None, nearly as serious as trying to literally overthrow God with a third of his army.

The funny part is that, even if satan had said they would be like God, in the sense of ruling the universe (which he did NOT say) it still wouldn't be a thread to God's sovereignty.

As an example, if i gave your child an apple, and told them, "if you eat the apple, you'll be big and strong like your mommy, and be able to drive anywhere you want"... would you feel threatened? Does the claim match up with reality?

There's no outcome of them eating the fruit that would have in any way, posed a threat to God's sovereignty. Nothing as close as satan literally fighting God with a third of his own army. How is this even something we're disagreeing on?

Fix the example for me? You're fixing it for yourself to fit your narrative.

To fit what narrative? What have I said about the story that didn't happen as said in the bible?

Before you claimed rebellion happended before humans. Now that's fixed.

Yes, you corrected me, and i took the correction. And I said even if it happened after, it still doesn't validate your argument, and I explained why

Now you're claiming that's the reason the devil wants to sack God from heaven or what?

What ??

Humans where no longer under God's rule after they disobeyed him. How hard is that to explain?

Not being under someone's rule, and planning to overthrow the person, are not the same thing ma'am.

Wilgrea7:


Nowhere in the verse you quoted, did it state that God wanted to use man to punish satan for his arrogance. Not to mention, and I say this with no offense, but it sounds like a really stupid plan.

You think it would be a good idea to put the one dude who had the ability to make 1/3 of your angels revolt in the same place as your infant, weak creation? That's like putting your sworn enemy in the same place as your child, and expecting the child, who has neither the knowledge or the ability, to subdue your sworn enemy, who was able to take away 1/3 of your army.



How on earth does satan win in this situation? The person who wanted to destroy your creation succeeds in ruining the first 2, so you let him ruin billions more? That's like having a garden, where you just planted 2 new flowers, and having your enemy infect those flowers with a terrible parasite.

What sort of sensible gardener would let the infected flowers breed more and more infected flowers, going to the billions, while simultaneously saying he hates the infection? In what way is stopping the infection and planting new fresh flowers a loss? And somehow letting the infection multiply a billion folds is not??

What I stated are from my own personal reasonings. God never gave us His reasons for His actions. He's infinitely wise, you don't need to dabble into things you don't know.

However, the verse I quoted gives a clue. The bolded part makes us understand that God didn't want to leave the earth empty. Looking at all His activities throughout scripture, it appears He didn't want to create another set of human beings either. The reasons for that was not disclosed.

Now, did God put Satan side by side His weak humans? No, you're completely wrong. God didn't create man weak. He gave him a lot of authority and dominion. Then, covered man with His Glory. Not only that, He paid regular visit to man on a daily basis. Also, He placed man in an enclosed garden, secluded from the open earth where Satan roamed. How Satan gained access into the garden is unknown to us. But we know that Adam didn't fall, Eve did. Adam only joined Eve in eaten that fruit so that Eve would not be alone in her dilemma. It was out of love and concern for his wife.

The fault was largely Adam's. He should have secured his family better than he did.

God only told us the few things He wanted us to know. He's not accountable to man, so He can reserve the details He wishes to reserve (Deuteronomy 29:29). We as humans have imperfect knowledge, we cannot use that to judge the actions of an infinitely wise God.

This video answers your question
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DNcGVAk5I0I.
Then another is ..
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UzjoqYYRxTM. I hope I don't get banned