₦airaland Forum

@allonym and nefryn
i read somewhere on this forum that the God in the bible is either psychotic, he does not exist or he is misrepresented. I agree completly. Most people who tout the religion of christianity dont know the first thing about the nature of God
The argument about God beign omni- benevolent, potent and scient is very valid given what we observe but it fails in one respect; it only looks at the reality of what is said in the bible from one dimmenssion- the physical, 5 sense realm. So you either consider the existense of another realm that is not subject to our logic and science becos the foundation of science itself is based on the observable, or u do not judge the statements in the bible by ur own standards cos its explicitly talks of another reality removed from that which ur observations can quantify or qualify. Am i maknig sense?
Science as a rule cannot observe, measure or even acknowledge the existense of a reality that cannot be observed, measured or acknowledged with scientific methods. It is like a snake swallowing itself. So the best u can say is
we conclude that by our own rules, the omni-tri nature of the God of the bible cannot be proved but since the bible has its own rules, we dont have a case against the bible

Having established this, let us now fight by ur own rules.

there is nothng in the bible to suggest that God is omni-potent in this world, in this time frame, in this realm. it talks about satan beign the god of this world.

the bible clearly states there are two realms of existence, this one we can see feel and touch with our body and our mind and another we can only connect with with our spirit (of course u dont have to beleive or accept this but if we will judge the bible by its own rules we have to accept what it says of itself). The phisical realm is also said to be a subset of the spiritual, it gains its life and substance from it, it was created from it. an analogy is E = MC**2 as an irriversible reaction, if u catch my drift.

the story continues that, yes, God is omni-tri whatever in his primary spiritual realm but he created copies of himself and created another realm for them to be god over. this means they are omni-potent in that realm. why he did, it i will prob ask when we see face to face ,but some say he did it becos he wanted fellowship from beigns who had a CHOISE to fellowship wit him or not ( as opposed to his earlier creations who really didnt have too many options).
To cut the story short, man gave up the dominion or godship to someone else who was evil and becos God is also JUST and FAIR, he cannot take back what he gave totally to someone else who gave it to another of his free will, hence the dillemma. Where he can, he does what he can, but it is out of his hand for the mean time

So all the evil happening on earth is not his fault and he cant do much about it for now (but that will change very soon). Thus sayest the bible
so there goes ur argument out of the window

the reason why we argue so  much about the nature of god is becos we think he is some cosmic monolith in another galaxy. if u want to know about the nature of God look in a mirror. Why do we want children to raise, why wouldnt a human be content with with livin with life-like robots ? why do we empower our children to become independent of us and possibly greater than us, why are we ever willing to create new things and experiment? it is the god in us

i know u'all will cut my post to peices wit ur superior logic but, i have said my peice

t4cash:
AS I said in my post, some decisions are difficult, but in the end, we choose the way we are. "We are made in God's image" refers to the little sovereignty God left man. IN FACT living is by choice. We are the only living being that can choose to commit suicide. I wonder why this thread is still going on? Did God make him gay? No. Because even if God made him gayish, he has chosen to act on it.

People should pls stop saying GOD made anybody gay or gayish. God is not responsible for any of the flaws found in humanity, we are.

@shannon
sorry love i have nothing against ur post in particular, just the last one i read (obviously)
anyone can catch a disease, u may say its not their fault but it would be thier fault if the dont do anythin about it and spread it to other people. and yes, homosexuality is infectous,socially infectous, see what all the gay artists, scientists and film makers have done to us all. its called social manipulation, they have convinced us there is nothing wrong with it so more people "come out of the closet" than ever before where they would have tried to deal with it as a perversion. and we all have our own pet perversions

Shannon:
So what are you suggesting? If I follow this line of thinking then someone who comes in to your church and is a closet homosexual will be ok with you? I've had in depth discussions with my brother, a minister, about the whole concept of homosexuality and what his response to it was. His statements were, "I believe that some people are born that way, but I believe that it may be a manifestation of sins from past generations." So yes, I wholeheartedly believe some people are born that way, which would mean that yes, God made them that way. Do I believe they should practice? No, they should lead celibate lives if they are Christians, if they are not Christians then they can do what they want because they don't follow the same moral code. We all have things that we must struggle to overcome in this life because we are human and we are weak (ie alcoholism, drug abuse, medical problems, physical/emotional abuse).

And last time I checked there aren't many gay people who would willingly go to church and tell someone God made them that way, mostly because they would probably be killed for voicing that belief. Oh, and the comment about Leviticus was directed at the people who seem to be using that passage as the only basis for their argument. If you want to base an entire argument on the Bible, I'm sure you can find more useful passages than that one which is surrounded by plenty of other rules we don't follow anymore.

the world has gone MAD!!!!!!!
i challenge anyone to come out and say he has never had a"HOMOSEXUAL" thought!! or an INCESTOUS one or a MURDEROUS one or a PEDOPHILIC one. true some may have these feeling more intensly than others just as some people tend to get more angry than others or feel music more intensely than others. But this does not give u the right to sleep with ur sister, kill ur neighbour, rape ur neighbours baby. why is incest and pedophilia against the law are they not "sexual preferences"

Gay people should stop givin the excuse that they are made that way and they cant help themselves. the child molester cant help himself too but we throw him in prison. i feel their pain, some were "born" that way, scientist can even trace genetic links to homosexuality but they can trace it to every other form of crimiinality too including bestiality but that does not change the fact that they are an abberation, they are psycologically flawed like the wide range of flaws in all human beigns. God did not make man flawed, man's sin made man flawed. the same sin that made some people born with cancer made some people born with a craving that is morally and biologically WRONG. If homosexuality was natural life would have ceased to exist eons ago

So all u gay guys out there get over urself and find a cure for ur disease, i wont judge u or crucify u just like i wont crucify someone with ebola, i will just tell him to stay away and try and get help. the only reason this argument exist at all is that a person suffering fron a disease wants to be well but all u gays out there are enjoying anal orgasmia so much u dont care if ur conscience is condemning u

Good Topic. Good post by Jibitoye

Awolowo is just human like everybody else. Extraordinary human but human all the same. Had his faults and weaknesses and made his mistakes. I think he was very tribalistic like most (if not all ) yorubas but i wonder where people got the idea that that was necessarily a bad thing. Anyway that is another topic for another day.

Since people like Isaac Boro are bent on this path, good luck to you and the ND. May you have your own peaceful paradise country flowing with oil and gas. And may all Nigerians suffer and die in agony when their life source has been cut off!!! Amen
PS.

issac boro:
I have a problem with you yorubas i am not a tribalist but the way you boys in this forum talk makes me to understand that you people will never change because OBJ is a yoruba man he can never do anything wrong and who ever says he his not doing well should be silienced what is the difference with Abacha regime is it not the same tactise they are using.

Take my word before the end of the year there will be a full scale civil war in the niger delta and guess what the US will support the niger delta and britain.
You know why the Americans do not like the chinese and nigeria is getting close to china is a security risk to them and they will look for ways to push china out of this region because of it's resources and they will be willing to finace the war and what will you people do eat your words a word is enough for the wise.

@Isaac Boro
If you were not so sensitive and complexed you would have noticed that the major oponents of OBJ have been Yorubas and it is not because we are jealous the power moved to another part of the country. We know OBJ is and will always be a monster. If we remember, no single yoruba state voted (rigged) for OBJ in 97, and all the ND states voted(rigged for him), or did someone from Ibadan come to Rivers to vote (rig) for him?.
Now that there is a civilian power you all can come out and start making noise. WHere were you during IBB, Buhari and Abacha? During Abacha's rule only NADECO and Ken Saro Wiwa stood up to fight. Many of these people paid with their lives. People like Etiebet, Anenih etc, did they drop from heaven.
Of all ND people only the Ogonis have Earned respect. They resisted when it was most difficult

issac boro:
Take my word before the end of the year there will be a full scale civil war in the niger delta and guess what the US will support the niger delta and britain.
You know why the Americans do not like the chinese and nigeria is getting close to china is a security risk to them and they will look for ways to push china out of this region because of it's resources and they will be willing to finace the war and what will you people do eat your words a word is enough for the wise.

With statements like this people will assume you are ignorant. U r not helping the image of Niger Deltans .
1)First of all were  has america openly supported the overthrow of a democraticaly elected regime except those they brand as terrorist?
2)Would it be easier for western powers to deal with a larger Nigeria for oil or would they rather deal with a coalition of coastal ethnic nationalities?
3)Have you been reading about the recent arms sales to Nigerian government by America. Soon OBJ and his monsters will have the fire-power to bomb the ND out of the water, they are just waiting for provocation eg a dead American Citizen  Even mend knows this.
4) Most oil Prodicing coys are moving to offshore locations where they will be protected by navies (Nigerian and Foreign). Did you know an American carrier has been doing "manouvers" off the bight of Bonny. With this arrangement they can circumvent the militants completely. That means no oil money, no coys and maximum vengeance by OBJ and his cohorts on ND
My guy its a loose loose situation if violence breaks out. Even the great Ibos tried it and failed even though they were very heroic.

But i will admit to one thing though. It is very sad that Yoruba leaders have not come out to fight for the people of the ND. We are big enough and influential enough to take the fight to the next level but thy have been to blinded by their ambition to rule (which has failed anyway). It is very sad that an Itshekiri an Edo or an Urhobo man would talk about a Yoruba man with hatred because they are culturrally and historically our blood brothers.For this I ask for your forgiveness

It seems owo is bent on secession! Good for u. We will have a country called warri, another called sapele and ogoni and ikwerre and the great federation of izon nations, etc, it will make the balkans will look like a playground argument. Get real!!!!! how many groups were in the last crisis that almost anihilated warri , 4 or 5? Considered the consequences of ur actions before u start calling for war. I feel the ND should be compensated for all the injustice but, let us be realistic

demmy:
I can't help noticing that its Obasanjo's Yoruba ministers that are messing.

I agree completely. Because the true Yoruba political elite (old,tribalistic and silly as they might seem) stand for truth and justice (at least there perception of it). Most people dont realise that the Yorubas are the greatest opposers of OBJ and those that serve under him are mostly traitors or sychophants with no grassroot support. Look at the record of Yoruba elders that have been seduced to the dark side by Baba Iyabo
Bola Ige (no disrespect to him, he was a great man) - murdered
S.O Afolabi - suicide?/murder?
Ogunlewe - disgraced/ gaoled?

Thank God people like Olu Falae and co have kept up their stance. History will judge

@owo
It is wholly untrue, and part of a wholesale lie, to state that there are no qualified ND people for the jobs in the oil industry. .
try not to be sentimental, if by relative population alone, in an equal opportunity environment, NDans will still have less pple in oil companies than say Ibos and Yorubas. If we then take demographics of an index like say secondary school enrolment they would have a lesser proportion still because of the underdeveloped infrastructure. SO I dont think for now NDans can carry the load, maybe after a few years of serious development. And oil firms a run by expats mostly for profit, they dont care where u r from they want results. so in the end they choose those who are most qualified for the job. so do not beef non-indegenes that end up in shell Warri or PH. Its not their fault. Besides pple only notice the non-indegenes and gripe, they overlook the thousands of NDans that do work in these places.
Another thing , i taught secondary school children inPH for a whole year and i was appaled. I know education is bad in Nigeria but i thought it was the north that had students that could write their names. We teachers wrote all their exams for them and they are all mostly happy in RSUST right now. How Do u expect them to compete? There is no friggin way!!! Except people are given jobs just because they are from the ND and would that not equate to the same nepotism that we are blaming the rest of the country for?

@gbenga
no hard feelings mate
But u must see we are on the same side. I want what is best for the ND to ( if not for anything, they have the finest women in Nigeria )

gbengeijot
I can see from ur pic that u are just a kid. Next time try and read carefully before u jump to conclusions. From all i wrote all u could pick out was that i feel NDans should rot in hell? Jeeez!! Besides, "western verbal culture"? what is that?.
To reiterate i think that if PROTESTS AND KIDNAPPINGS will help to eliminate the INJUSTICE that NDans are suffering ,MEND SHOULD RIDE ON. Those people deserve a lot more than they are getting right now. But let us not be fooled by propaganda, the hausa man is not our problem nor the pakistani for that matter, but the currupt greedy Nigerian Elite, people that loot funds so they can send thier children to school abroad and come and talk rubish on Nigerian forums. No disrespect to all you hardworking honest Nigerians out there.

I live in the ND but i am from the West and i feel it is deplorable that the region has been allowed to deteriorate to this level. The East-West road is probably the busiest road in the country save the lagos-Ibadan-nothern route but the road is an eyesore. If a third mainland bridge could be built in Lagos with oil money i dont see why  bridges cant link places like Bonny Abonema Okrika etc. The niger Delta is in dissaray due to decades of neglect. Let us not be decieved by current government efforts, they are like a yoruba addage, treating the ringworm on a lepers skin. The people of the ND have a right to fight for their very lively-hood.And if kidnapping will help the , so be it. For years the money was flowing into nothern private pockets and the irony is the average notherner is more wretched than the average deltan.
However, that is only one side of the story and i speak from the perspective of one who has lived in the villages of the ND
1. Let us keep in mind , the bigger picture; all you see in the papers as political crises is almost exclusively the manipulation of selfish politicians e.g. EFCC, NDVF, MASSOB etc. So do not be decieved , keep an open mind.
2. Niger Deltans are angry at the rest of Nigerians now especially at the Notherners (traditional bad-guys in the eyes of all southerners) and Westerners (mostly because of the baboon-human experiment in Aso Rock) but they forget the following
         a)the period that gave  the educational and infrastructural advantage to the west ,and to a lesser extent to the core east, was the pre-oil days of the regions. At this time the regional leaders were basically responsible for the areas under them.This is where the Ibos failed the people of the ND. Remember that the west and notrh have minority groups too but integration and equality (at least to a great  extent) was such in these parts that there is not a great gap in development within these areas nor are the peoples of these areas complaining  (at least not too loudly) about marginalisation. We tend to forget that there are many non-Yoruba groups in the west like Eguns, Badagrys, Ilajes, peoples of Kwara etc but you will not readily notice that now. The old Eastern region was noted (if the truth will be told) by the nepotism of Ibos. This was the genesis of the underdevelopment of the ND. As a case in point, areas that were under the western region but later became the midwest (Edo, Sapele etc) are marginally more developed than the Eastern-region controlled areas of the ND. So our brothers in the ND should blame their current predicament on all of Nigeria and not just some parts especially with the recent wooing by their Ibo neighbours who are trying to paint themselves white in this whole Nigerian questions. Let us also remember that it was an Ibo man that centralised the government and resourses of Nigeria because it suited his purpose at the time i.e. Aguyi Ironsi.
          b) It is unfortunate to observe that the Niger Delta is breeding a generation of youths thatwill ensure the destruction of the region if care is not taken. In every village the most powerful force are the  "youths". These are almost always drug-using drop-out cut boys. These boys have taken over the region , they conduct election rigging, they are judge jury and executioner in the ND. Their cult system will shame all the ajebo cults of UI, UNILAG UNIBEN etc. There is no social structure in place to control these boys because (sorry to say) respect for the word of elders is not the strong-point of the cultural ethos of that part of the country. Every man does as he wishes. These boys have also been supercharged by the money guns and power struggles of people like OBJs golden boy Peter O.I was priviledged to see fist-hand a dey-gbam vs dey-well clash in Rivers state; let it suffice to say that after that you will not watch an action film again. These are the future of the Niger Delta.  The NDans  on this forum that are talking about the ability of ND to control their resources are probably sitting in front of a computer in Lagos with his UNIBEN certificate on the wall. Another case in point, ELF was looking for 4 geology graduates in the Omuku- Ahoda region to employ a few years ago. They could only find one. Of course they had to fill up the space with people from other places (the hated Yorubas ,Ibos) who had PhD holders in every wall crack
 So let our ND brothers consider all the issues before they self destruct in an effort to right legitimate and horrendous wrongs. Nigeria Existed before oil and can survive without the ND. But can the ND survive without Nigeria?