₦airaland Forum

There is a fervent craze for imitation of Arab culture in the core northern states, including their penchant for violence. Violence in Islam is more of an Arab culture than religion. Sadly, the origin of Islam is Arab. May their search for peace include the forfeiture of violence. Amen.

It shouldn't surprise anyone that many are not serious and therefore childish in their understanding of God and His ways. T B Joshua has consistently, over the years, made prophecies that came to pass, besides other numerous spiritual manifestations that God worked through him here and in other lands. For the information of all the atheists on this forum, God's wisdom, love and patience are infinitely enduring that such brash expressions of ignorance can't move Him to prove anything to the indolent.

@Kay 17;
Fore-knowledge without interference does not place any restriction on humans' freewill. There are recompenses for every deed done by humans: good brings good; bad brings bad. Within these arrangements exist infinite potentials for good and bad. It is therefore left for us to choose which of the two we wish to enjoy infinitely. God knows we have the capacity to make right choices and so He watches and wait for us to taste the result of each choice that we make; He wants us to become mature through self-determining processes that would qualify us as the Free and Perfect creatures, with a common link to Him through His immanent spirit in creation. God's Omniscience has more than enough rooms for humans to exercise their freewill.

@kay 17:
Your refusal to accept the Christian proof of God's existence, which is provable by His works in creation and through personal experiences, cannot in anyway be regarded as evidence of God's non-existence. And, God's Omniscience does not deprive man the freedom to make choices. Within the laws that govern creation exist sufficient rooms for humans to exercise their free will. Infinite knowledge on the part of God does not mean He would not allow His most favoured creature, man, the option of charting his course in creation without interference. God knows all but wills that humans must, on their own, develop to full realisation of their potentials through a learning process that makes them more mature and ready to fully appreciate and enjoy the fruits of a painstaking labour, which gives more satisfaction than ready made gifts.

@Kay 17:
How does one ascertain spiritual reality? You see, that is another area where you guys got it wrong. Repeatedly, Christians talk of personal experiences which atheists called delusion. Beside that, how do you explain phenomena that physical science has failed to proffer answers. Christianity as a religion has not failed, it is humans who have failed to live the Christian ideal.

@Kay 17; evil? God gave us the freedom to make choices, if we choose harmful ways (evil), we carry the blame, not God. And if you imagine that God erred by giving us the freedom to do either good or evil, you are suggesting that God ought to have created us like robots. Humans have the capacity to perfects their ways for their joyful stay on earth. The choice is ours.

@Kay 17; The statement; "The only reason why God seems necessary is to explain nature's complexities", is founded on fallible premises of physical sciences. Both theists and atheists subject their 'belief' to various tests to verify their claims. While theists use all known 'tools', including the scientific method, atheists confine their findings within the premises of physical sciences alone. It is therefore premature for you to claim that 'God does not exist' when you have not made use of the other means available. This being the case, atheists remain on the lower rung of the ladder when it comes to understanding 'nature's complexities'.

@ATLgal; So you believed a David existed as recorded in the bible, huh? We are getting somewhere. The bible's records of human failings, which included lying, ought to have reminded critics that it was honestly inspired to be written without concealing those aspects of human conduct which fall short of our expectations regarding those who were described as God's dear ones. It was because of such failings that God inspired the prophets to rebuke all who had left the right way, He later sent Jesus to redirect our steps. God loves those who admit their errors and call them His children. Children commit many errors but would never be abandoned by their parents. Delusional? perhaps we are both delusional, since we have "no evidence to prove" or "disprove" each other' s claim.

@ATLgal: The bible is better understood by those who believe that there is only one God who created all that exist; that God has laws governing all of creation and would not shift His stand on these laws, whatsoever; that His wisdom ensured that all He did was good and no useful purpose could be served in making any change. Within these laws there is free will, and there are provisions for reward and punishment. Actions that could attract reward or punishment are clearly understood by all sane humans of adult age. God also reserves the right to take any action against any person or group of persons who, through harmful conducts, seek to delay His plans for the general good of all. Understanding such structures in God's Kingdom would equip us better to 'challenge' seeming wrongs that could ordinarily be blamed on God. Christ made it easier by preaching LOVE which shields humanity from God's punishment. The old testament ways have been replaced with the new Way in Christ Jesus. In all these there are no contradictions.

@Folaski; atheists are like that. Most of them prefer 'louder' arguments than dealing with the substance in particle details.

@kay 17; the 'evil' you 'see' in religion is the product of your disappointment with the way most of those who claimed to be religious get involved in acts that are harmful to ,or to fellow humans; otherwise you can't genuinely fault the foundations of a religion like Christianity. Is it the the demand for humans to love one another that has evil in it? While Christians cannot present God to atheists the way they want Him presented, simple human virtues that hold the promise for joy on earth needed no subjectivity to be understood and appreciated. I must concede that defining God based on atheists' already defined parameters can never be correctly done by any theist until God Himself changes the ways He wants humans to perceive and recognise Him.

@kay 17: It affects atheists who blame religion for every crime committed on earth. May be you should go to other forums (Christianity vs Atheism- Google groups) where atheists constantly expressed their 'fervent belief' that the world would be better without out religion. You mentioned agnostics, nihilists and others but I don't see what common 'features' atheists share with them, so I won't comment on that; except that agnostics might find remaining neutral not totally out of question.

jayriginal. perhaps familiar. The metaphysical aspect of religious life, which leads to the perception and recognition of God, will always evade those who define reality based on what can be garnered through the 'scientific method'. Physical science confine its findings to what can be physically isolated and observed, while the metaphysical involves subjectivity, which gives an insight into truths that are laid beyond the parameters of the still developing physical science. Therefore, anyone wishing to go beyond the physical-physical plane, must be prepared to subject himself/herself to the conditions necessary for the perception and understanding of what lie there.  The The first step is the appreciation of the intricately designed things we see in our world, which should remind us that behind all of these great designs is a master designer. That's one step beyond the physical plane.

@folaski: your initial post and subsequent replies are encouraging to anyone interested in knowing man's unique position and obligations in creation. Atheist's refusal to search beyond the physical planes for the TRUTH has rendered their 'proclamation' that "God does not exist" quite trivial. Often times it is the loud nature of their argument that become issues for further discussion. To the atheist, the historical failures of humans to get things right through religion renders it unhelpful to changing the world for the better and there for an illusion. They easily forget the heinous crimes committed under "Godless states" like the former Soviet Union, and the khamer Rouge. All who believe in God and in Christ must, however, remain steadfast in prayers and good deeds for the change and salvation to come true.

@manmustwac: There is a distinction between disappointment with the behaviour of persons who claim to be religious and the Virtues of a religion. The fact that humans have, over the centuries, been unable to make those ideals that informed the emergence of religion permanent in their lives does not make it the fancy-house you constructed. On the other hand, the atheists' claim of "God does not exist" remain vague since physical science, which they use as the basis for their claim, is admittedly below the level that may be considered as perfect.  Atheists' idols like Richard Dawkins merely said the lack of, what he called, verifiable evidence remains his reason for denying God's existence. Much remain unknown. Therefore, one can at best choose to remain neutral. It makes more sense that way than the  total denial of what cannot be disproved.

@manmustwac: There is a distinction between disappointment with the behaviour of persons who claim to be religious and the Virtues of a religion. The fact that humans have, over the centuries, been unable to make those ideals that informed the emergence of religion permanent in their lives does not make it the fancy-house you constructed. On the other hand, the atheists' claim of "God does not exist" remain vague since physical science, which they use as the basis for their claim, is admittedly below the level that may be considered as perfect.  Atheists' idols like Richard Dawkins merely said the lack of, what he called, verifiable evidence remains his reason for denying God's existence. Much remain unknown. Therefore, one can at best choose to remain neutral. It makes more sense that way than the  total denial of what cannot be disproved.

Humans, rather than religion, are the source of the world's problems. Christianity as a religion is founded on the principle-Love your neigbhour as you love yourself. If therefore humans could not practice what was rightly conceived, they stand blamable. Those virtues that Christ sought to make permanently active in the minds of all humans remain the key to attaining world peace, if everyone would adopt them.

OBJ, like many Nigerian leaders, does not understand the psyche of religious fundamentalists. What these sect is demanding is impracticable in the setup called Nigeria. They are either allowed to implement their full plans or they are stopped and routed out, simple. Between these two options there is no space for carrot and stick approach. The Talibans of Afghanistan should be our study case in understanding the the boko harm wahala.