I don't seems to get it why this doctrine has generated so much confusion even in Christendom! My take has always been God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit are three distinct (separate) Supernatural Beings United in Agreement of purpose, vision, spirit and the likes and not what I hear around that they are actually three entity in one unified body all in the name of - its a MYSTERY! when the BIBLE clearly states the supremacy of God the Father over and above all as attested to by our LORD JESUS CHRIST! Please what is your take on this?

tomakint: I don't seems to get it why this doctrine has generated so much confusion even in Christendom! My take has always been God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit are three distinct (separate) Supernatural Beings United in Agreement of purpose, vision, spirit and the likes and not what I hear around that they are actually three entity in one unified body all in the name of - its a MYSTERY! when the BIBLE clearly states the supremacy of God the Father over and above all as attested to by our LORD JESUS CHRIST! Please what is your take on this?

Your point

Do u think the Father is greater than the Son??

The first and most important commandment is to believe in One God and worship him alone. The bible even depicts God as a jealous being who Hates worship of others other than him.


It is simply unlikely that this same jealous God promotes such a doctrine that will likely contravene the first Law.

We are talking about the first and most important Law such as should be clear and undisputably uncontroversial.

It is obvious that the Christians are fruitlessly Packaging their doctrine such as not contravene the first law, but it is what it is; Fruitless and absurd.

ijawkid:

Your point

Do u think the Father is greater than the Son??

I throw it open so that people can air their views. Its a hotly debated topic and I believe someone out there can shed more light already you know where I stand on this, what is your own take. Christ referenced and respected GOD as his father, God is the creator He achieved this through Christ as explained in John 1: 1-2, Colosians 2. I mean let's learn not an argumentative thing

tomakint: I don't seems to get it why this doctrine has generated so much confusion even in Christendom! My take has always been God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit are three distinct (separate) Supernatural Beings United in Agreement of purpose, vision, spirit and the likes and not what I hear around that they are actually three entity in one unified body all in the name of - its a MYSTERY! when the BIBLE clearly states the supremacy of God the Father over and above all as attested to by our LORD JESUS CHRIST! Please what is your take on this?

None of the Bible’s Writers Believed That Jesus is God: Christians and Muslims both believe in Jesus, love him, and honor him. They are, however, divided over the question of his divinity. Fortunately, this difference can be resolved if we refer the question to both the Bible and the Quran, because, both the Bible and the Quran teach that Jesus
is not God. It is clear enough to everyone that the Quran denies the divinity of Jesus, so we do not need to spend much time explaining that. On the other hand, many people misunderstand the Bible; they feel that the belief in Jesus as God is so widespread that it must have come from the Bible.
This article shows quite conclusively that the Bible does not teach that. The Bible clearly teaches that Jesus is not God. In the Bible God is always someone else other than Jesus. Some will say that something Jesus said or something he did while on the earth proves that he is God. We will show that the disciples never came to the
conclusion that Jesus is God. And those are people who lived and walked with
Jesus and thus knew first hand what he said and did. Furthermore, we are told in
the Acts of the Apostles in the Bible that the disciples were being guided by the
Holy Spirit. If Jesus is God, surely they should know it. But they did not. They
kept worshipping the one true God who was worshipped by Abraham, Moses, and Jesus (see Acts 3:13). All of the writers of the Bible believed that God was not Jesus. The idea that Jesus is God did not become part of Christian belief until after the Bible was
written, and took many centuries to become part of the faith of Christians. Matthew, Mark, and Luke, authors of the first three Gospels, believed that Jesus was not God (see Mark 10:18 and Matthew 19:17). They believed that he
was the son of God in the sense of a righteous person. Many others too, are
similarly called sons of God (see Matthew 23:1-9). Paul, believed to be the author of some thirteen or fourteen letters in the Bible, also believed that Jesus is not God. For Paul, God first created Jesus, then
used Jesus as the agent by which to create the rest of creation (see Colossians
1:15 and 1 Corinthians 8:6). Similar ideas are found in the letter to the Hebrews,
and also in the Gospel and Letters of John composed some seventy years after
Jesus. In all of these writings, however, Jesus is still a creature of God and is
therefore forever subservient to God (see 1 Corinthians 15:28). Now, because Paul, John, and the author of Hebrews believed that Jesus was God’s first creature, some of what they wrote clearly show that Jesus was a pre-
existent powerful being. This is often misunderstood to mean that he must have
been God. But to say that Jesus was God is to go against what these very authors
wrote. Although these authors had this later belief that Jesus is greater than all
creatures, they also believed that he was still lesser than God. In fact, John
quotes Jesus as saying: “...the Father is greater than I.” (John 14:28). And Paul declares that the head of every woman is her husband, the head of every man is
Christ, and the head of Christ is God (see 1 Corinthians 11:3). Therefore, to find something in these writings and claim that these teach that Jesus is God is to misuse and misquote what those authors are saying. What they
wrote must be understood in the context of their belief that Jesus is a creature of
God as they have already clearly said. So we see then, that some of the later writers had a higher view of Jesus, but none of the writers of the Bible believed that Jesus is God. The Bible clearly
teaches that there is only one true God, the one whom Jesus worshipped (see
John 17: 3). In the rest of this article we will explore the Bible in more depth, and deal with the passages which are most often misquoted as proofs of Jesus’ divinity.
We will show, with God’s help, that these do not mean what they are so often
used to prove. 2) Evidence From the Acts of the Apostles: Jesus performed many miraculous wonders, and he without doubt said a lot of wonderful things about himself. Some people use what he said and did as a
proof that he was God. But his original disciples who lived and walked with him,
and were eyewitnesses to what he said and did, never reached this conclusion. The Acts of the Apostles in the Bible details the activity of the disciples over a period of thirty years after Jesus was lifted up to heaven. Throughout this
period they never refer to Jesus as God. They continually and consistently use
the title God to refer to someone else other than Jesus. Peter stood up with the eleven disciples and addressed the crowd saying: “Men of Israel, listen to this: Jesus of Nazareth was a man accredited by God to
you by miracles, wonders and signs, which God did among you through him, as
you yourselves know.” (Acts 2:22). It was God, therefore, who did the miracles through Jesus to convince people that Jesus was backed by God. Peter did not see the miracles as proof that Jesus
is God. In fact, the way Peter refers to God and to Jesus makes it clear that Jesus is not God. For he always turns the title God away from Jesus. Take the following
references for example: “God has raised this Jesus...” (Acts 2:32) “God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Christ.” (Acts 2:36) In both passages, the title God is turned away from Jesus. So why he did this, if Jesus was God? For Peter, Jesus was a servant of God. Peter said: “God raised up his servant...” (Acts 3:26). The title servant refers to Jesus. This is clear from a previous passage where Peter declared: “The God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, the God of our fathers, has glorified his servant Jesus.” (Acts 3:13). Peter must have known that Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob never spoke of a Triune God. They always spoke of God as the only God. Here, as in Matthew
12:18, Jesus is the servant of God. Matthew tells us that Jesus was the same
servant of God spoken of in Isaiah 42:1. So, according to Matthew and Peter,
Jesus is not God, but God’s servant. The Old Testament repeatedly says that God
is alone (e.g. Isaiah 45:5). All of the disciples of Jesus held this view. In Acts 4:24 we are told that the believers prayed to God saying: “...they raised their voices together in prayer to God. ‘Sovereign Lord,’ they said, ‘you made the heaven and the earth and the
sea, and everything in them.’” It is clear that the one they were praying to was not Jesus, because, two verses later, they referred to Jesus as “...your holy servant Jesus, whom you anointed.” (Acts 4:27). If Jesus was God, his disciples should have said this clearly. Instead, they kept preaching that Jesus was God’s Christ. We are told in Acts: “Day after day, in the temple courts and from house to house, they never stopped teaching and
proclaiming the good news that Jesus is the Christ.” (Acts 5:42). The Greek word “Christ” is a human title. It means “Anointed.” If Jesus was God, why would the disciples continually refer to him with human titles like
servant and Christ of God, and consistently use the title God for the one who
raised Jesus? Did they fear men? No! They boldly preached the truth fearing
neither imprisonment nor death. When they faced opposition from the
authorities, Peter declared: “We must obey God rather than men! The God of our fathers raised Jesus...” (Acts 5:29-30). Were they lacking the Holy Spirit? No! They were supported by the Holy Spirit (see Acts 2:3, 4:8, and 5:32). They were simply teaching what they had
learnt from Jesus — that Jesus was not God but, rather, God’s servant and Christ

justaqad:

None of the Bible’s Writers Believed That Jesus is God: Christians and Muslims both believe in Jesus, love him, and honor him. They are, however, divided over the question of his divinity. Fortunately, this difference can be resolved if we refer the question to both the Bible and the Quran, because, both the Bible and the Quran teach that Jesus
is not God. It is clear enough to everyone that the Quran denies the divinity of Jesus, so we do not need to spend much time explaining that. On the other hand, many people misunderstand the Bible; they feel that the belief in Jesus as God is so widespread that it must have come from the Bible.
This article shows quite conclusively that the Bible does not teach that. The Bible clearly teaches that Jesus is not God. In the Bible God is always someone else other than Jesus. Some will say that something Jesus said or something he did while on the earth proves that he is God. We will show that the disciples never came to the
conclusion that Jesus is God. And those are people who lived and walked with
Jesus and thus knew first hand what he said and did. Furthermore, we are told in
the Acts of the Apostles in the Bible that the disciples were being guided by the
Holy Spirit. If Jesus is God, surely they should know it. But they did not. They
kept worshipping the one true God who was worshipped by Abraham, Moses, and Jesus (see Acts 3:13). All of the writers of the Bible believed that God was not Jesus. The idea that Jesus is God did not become part of Christian belief until after the Bible was
written, and took many centuries to become part of the faith of Christians. Matthew, Mark, and Luke, authors of the first three Gospels, believed that Jesus was not God (see Mark 10:18 and Matthew 19:17). They believed that he
was the son of God in the sense of a righteous person. Many others too, are
similarly called sons of God (see Matthew 23:1-9). Paul, believed to be the author of some thirteen or fourteen letters in the Bible, also believed that Jesus is not God. For Paul, God first created Jesus, then
used Jesus as the agent by which to create the rest of creation (see Colossians
1:15 and 1 Corinthians 8:6). Similar ideas are found in the letter to the Hebrews,
and also in the Gospel and Letters of John composed some seventy years after
Jesus. In all of these writings, however, Jesus is still a creature of God and is
therefore forever subservient to God (see 1 Corinthians 15:28). Now, because Paul, John, and the author of Hebrews believed that Jesus was God’s first creature, some of what they wrote clearly show that Jesus was a pre-
existent powerful being. This is often misunderstood to mean that he must have
been God. But to say that Jesus was God is to go against what these very authors
wrote. Although these authors had this later belief that Jesus is greater than all
creatures, they also believed that he was still lesser than God. In fact, John
quotes Jesus as saying: “...the Father is greater than I.” (John 14:28). And Paul declares that the head of every woman is her husband, the head of every man is
Christ, and the head of Christ is God (see 1 Corinthians 11:3). Therefore, to find something in these writings and claim that these teach that Jesus is God is to misuse and misquote what those authors are saying. What they
wrote must be understood in the context of their belief that Jesus is a creature of
God as they have already clearly said. So we see then, that some of the later writers had a higher view of Jesus, but none of the writers of the Bible believed that Jesus is God. The Bible clearly
teaches that there is only one true God, the one whom Jesus worshipped (see
John 17: 3). In the rest of this article we will explore the Bible in more depth, and deal with the passages which are most often misquoted as proofs of Jesus’ divinity.
We will show, with God’s help, that these do not mean what they are so often
used to prove. 2) Evidence From the Acts of the Apostles: Jesus performed many miraculous wonders, and he without doubt said a lot of wonderful things about himself. Some people use what he said and did as a
proof that he was God. But his original disciples who lived and walked with him,
and were eyewitnesses to what he said and did, never reached this conclusion. The Acts of the Apostles in the Bible details the activity of the disciples over a period of thirty years after Jesus was lifted up to heaven. Throughout this
period they never refer to Jesus as God. They continually and consistently use
the title God to refer to someone else other than Jesus. Peter stood up with the eleven disciples and addressed the crowd saying: “Men of Israel, listen to this: Jesus of Nazareth was a man accredited by God to
you by miracles, wonders and signs, which God did among you through him, as
you yourselves know.” (Acts 2:22). It was God, therefore, who did the miracles through Jesus to convince people that Jesus was backed by God. Peter did not see the miracles as proof that Jesus
is God. In fact, the way Peter refers to God and to Jesus makes it clear that Jesus is not God. For he always turns the title God away from Jesus. Take the following
references for example: “God has raised this Jesus...” (Acts 2:32) “God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Christ.” (Acts 2:36) In both passages, the title God is turned away from Jesus. So why he did this, if Jesus was God? For Peter, Jesus was a servant of God. Peter said: “God raised up his servant...” (Acts 3:26). The title servant refers to Jesus. This is clear from a previous passage where Peter declared: “The God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, the God of our fathers, has glorified his servant Jesus.” (Acts 3:13). Peter must have known that Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob never spoke of a Triune God. They always spoke of God as the only God. Here, as in Matthew
12:18, Jesus is the servant of God. Matthew tells us that Jesus was the same
servant of God spoken of in Isaiah 42:1. So, according to Matthew and Peter,
Jesus is not God, but God’s servant. The Old Testament repeatedly says that God
is alone (e.g. Isaiah 45:5). All of the disciples of Jesus held this view. In Acts 4:24 we are told that the believers prayed to God saying: “...they raised their voices together in prayer to God. ‘Sovereign Lord,’ they said, ‘you made the heaven and the earth and the
sea, and everything in them.’” It is clear that the one they were praying to was not Jesus, because, two verses later, they referred to Jesus as “...your holy servant Jesus, whom you anointed.” (Acts 4:27). If Jesus was God, his disciples should have said this clearly. Instead, they kept preaching that Jesus was God’s Christ. We are told in Acts: “Day after day, in the temple courts and from house to house, they never stopped teaching and
proclaiming the good news that Jesus is the Christ.” (Acts 5:42). The Greek word “Christ” is a human title. It means “Anointed.” If Jesus was God, why would the disciples continually refer to him with human titles like
servant and Christ of God, and consistently use the title God for the one who
raised Jesus? Did they fear men? No! They boldly preached the truth fearing
neither imprisonment nor death. When they faced opposition from the
authorities, Peter declared: “We must obey God rather than men! The God of our fathers raised Jesus...” (Acts 5:29-30). Were they lacking the Holy Spirit? No! They were supported by the Holy Spirit (see Acts 2:3, 4:8, and 5:32). They were simply teaching what they had
learnt from Jesus — that Jesus was not God but, rather, God’s servant and Christ

I must confess you just did a thorough and good job on this, definitely not everyone will buy this, but i am of the opinion that the so-called mystery of the trinity is well exposed in the BIBLE (which you have rightly done) my question is why are so many christians attaching the word, "mystery" to this simple and open truth! Even the book of Revelations laid to rest the so called mystery attached to it starting from Revelations 5 onwards that God is SUPREME and every others did Obeisance to him. Our Lord Jesus Christ has been given the total power over everything and what many christians have failed to understand is who gave Christ these POWERS? Answer= GOD!

In The Name of The One, and Only God, Allaah. The Peace of Allaah, Be Upon You Everyone.

tomakint: I don't seems to get it why this doctrine has generated so much confusion even in Christendom! My take has always been God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit are three distinct (separate) Supernatural Beings United in Agreement of purpose, vision, spirit and the likes and not what I hear around that they are actually three entity in one unified body all in the name of - its a MYSTERY! when the BIBLE clearly states the supremacy of God the Father over and above all as attested to by our LORD JESUS CHRIST! Please what is your take on this?

Allaah, God, is not divided into thirds. He is but ONE GOD indivisible.

in·di·vis·i·ble/ˌindəˈvizəbəl/ Adjective:
Not divisible; unable to be divided or separated.


Chapter 17

When Jesus had said this, Philip answered: 'We are content to serve God, but we desire, however, to know God, for Isaiah the prophet said: "Verily thou art a hidden God," and God said to Moses his servant: "I am that which I am."
Jesus answered: 'Philip, God is a good without which there is naught good; God is a being without which there is naught that is; God is a life without which there is naught that liveth; so great that he filleth all and is everywhere.

He alone hath no equal. He hath had no beginning, nor will he ever have an end, but to everything hath he given a beginning, and to everything shall he give an end. He hath no father nor mother; he hath no sons. nor brethren. nor companions. And because God hath no body, therefore he eateth not, sleepeth not, dieth not, walketh not, moveth not, but abideth eternally without human similitude, for that he is incorporeal, uncompounded, immaterial, of the most simple substance. He is so good that he loveth goodness only; he is so just that when he punisheth or pardoneth it cannot be gainsaid. In short, I say unto thee, Philip, that here on earth thou canst not see him nor know him perfectly; but in his kingdom thou shalt see him for ever: wherein consisteth all our happiness and glory.' Philip answered: 'Master, what sayest thou? It is surely written in Isaiah that God is our father; how, then, hath he no sons?'

Jesus answered: 'There are written in the prophets many parables, wherefore thou oughtest not to attend to the letter, but to the sense. For all the prophets, that are one hundred and forty-four thousand, whom God hath sent into the world, have spoken darkly. But after me shall come the Splendour of all the prophets and holy ones, and shall shed light upon the darkness of all that the prophets have said, because he is the messenger of God' And having said this, Jesus sighed and said: 'Have mercy on Israel, O Lord God; and look with pity upon Abraham and upon his seed, in order that they may serve thee with truth of heart. His disciples answered: 'So be it, O Lord our God!'

Jesus said: 'Verily I say unto you, the scribes and doctors have made void the law of God with their false prophecies, contrary to the prophecies of the true prophets of God: wherefore God is wrath with the house of Israel and with this faithless generation.' His disciples wept at these words, and said: 'Have mercy, O God, have mercy upon the temple and upon the holy city, and give it not into contempt of the nations that they despise not thy holy covenant.' Jesus answered: 'So be it, Lord God of our fathers.'




Salaam/Peace. DevotedOne

tomakint:

I throw it open so that people can air their views. Its a hotly debated topic and I believe someone out there can shed more light already you know where I stand on this, what is your own take. Christ referenced and respected GOD as his father, God is the creator He achieved this through Christ as explained in John 1: 1-2, Colosians 2. I mean let's learn not an argumentative thing

You are totally correct...

I support ur stance on the issue....

u got it right....

The trilogy, the great invention of Constantine ...
Jesus squirming in his grave ...

If the word trinity is not found in the bible, how can trinity teaching be from the bible?

truthislight: If the word trinity is not found in the bible, how can trinity teaching be from the bible?

I have already explained. The Trinity is not biblical Jesus never spoke of trinity ...
The Trinity was an invention of Constantine at the Council of Nicea, fourth century.
My respects.

tomakint: I don't seems to get it why this doctrine has generated so much confusion even in Christendom! My take has always been God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit are three distinct (separate) Supernatural Beings United in Agreement of purpose, vision, spirit and the likes and not what I hear around that they are actually three entity in one unified body all in the name of - its a MYSTERY! when the BIBLE clearly states the supremacy of God the Father over and above all as attested to by our LORD JESUS CHRIST! Please what is your take on this?

Your take on "TRINITY" is one of the reasons for the "Furore"

The highlighted expression shows you believe in three Gods.

However, I agree with you that God, our heavenly father, is greater than his son, Jesus Christ. The bible references you made in your subsequent post explicitly support that.

Can you please do the same regarding the [b]holy spirit [/b]by referring me to where it is called "God" in the bible?

Freksy:

Your take on "TRINITY" is one of the reasons for the "Furore"

The highlighted expression shows you believe in three Gods.

However, I agree with you that God, our heavenly father, is greater than his son, Jesus Christ. The bible references you made in your subsequent post explicitly support that.

Can you please do the same regarding the [b]holy spirit [/b]by referring me to where it is called "God" in the bible?

No, no, no, no Fresky! I don’t believe in three Gods because by my own understanding it is anti-Bible! I’m sorry about that if you take my quoted post to be so. My intention on that is simply this; God the Father, God the Son (Jesus Christ) and the Holy Ghost works hand in hand, I think the doctrine of TRINITY is purely antithetical to the teaching of the Bible. While Christ was on Earth in human body, he made mention of the Supremacy of God the Father to every other one and even when the revelation was given to John in the Book of Revelations, Christ now in the Spirit, in the real appearance of a LAMB (from Revelations 5 onwards) still did obeisance to God the Father! He (Our Lord Jesus Christ) proved that they were separate BEINGS as seen in Revelation 5: 6-7. To buttress on your poser, I think you are right, there was no place in the Bible (at least by my searching) where the Holy Spirit was called God. Of course, the Holy Spirit was definitely involved in the creations as exemplified by the “Let us” in the book of Genesis 1. Definitely, the doctrine and origin of “TRINITY” must be well scrutinized because from time immemorial you hear the word “MYSTERY” attached to this doctrine even though Jesus Christ never made mention of it while he was in the body and in the Spirit forms. One thing I have noticed is that Christ knew many strange doctrines will spring up, no wonder he instructed us to “Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me” (John 5: 39). It’s a pity many Christians hardly read their Bibles these days but would rather go to church and allow strange doctrines to alter their lives, imagine some churches don’t even believe in Rapture and many other teachings of the Bible. Indeed, we are in the end times. God help us! Thank you.

tomakint: 1. My intention on that is simply this; God the Father, God the Son I think the doctrine of TRINITY is purely antithetical to the teaching of the Bible.

Totally agree with you.
The Trinity is not biblical, it is an invention of the Council of Nicea, promoted by Constantine in the fourth century after Christ.

My respects.