I have been thinking about one story for years now and doing lots of language compareing for years now...Weeks ago there was NL topic about the word "wahala" and its arabic roots..So it reminded me of other words in yoruba i knew to have arabic counter part and the most popular one to me is the word for night in yoruba "ALE" or we would say L´ale to mean "at night"..The oldest arabic books/tablets are linked to the oldest bible stories of Adam and eve and one sumerian epic tells of adam the first man having an woman counterpart before the story of EVE and in english ,they pronounce her name lilith or lila and the interpreters of the story said the story described her as dark as the night(as if she may have been deep african).The interpreter went on to say that lila or lilith is the european transmorphosis of the arabian word for night that has pronounciation "lalel" (even if i did not spell it as arabians would with their different enscription characters)it is pronouced very similar to how i spelled it...this is to say the woman was named after the night using the word for night in her culture which is similar to the word for night in yoruba culture.....When i was considering the word "wahala" it seems more likely that it was a more recent input to yoruba from arabic when islam was introduced to nigeria...I have to thnk otherwise on the word "ale" for night,the story traces back to the time of ancient sumeria and dated the scriptic tablet back to over 3000 years ago with reference to the presence of a woman black in colour as the night with a word for night very similar or the same as used in black peoples afican language...i go off the accomplished linguists theories that all languages come out of central african area and the Bantu group of languages is likely the oldest which has yoruba as a subset of bantu,or more so :twi is a subset of bantu languages where yoruba is in the twi group of languages..Twi is a language in togo and my friends from togo would say "wa" for me to come in their twi language,just as i would say "wa" for them to come in yoruba...So by this information i am swayed to think that "ale" is a very very old Bantu group language word that came out of africa and into Arabia...Korfodian group languages are related to Bantu group if i recal correct and then there are the languages that follow the nile river area and not to forget the ancient nile flowed from very near to lake chad in a time when there were other great lakes just north of nigeria where it was easy to migrate along lakes to other lakes all the way to arabic areas ,when lake chad was so large it almost reached the ancient nile river and the nile areas being the main historic route for africa to middle east movement

Oh God, I just lost a long and well written response to your post. Oh wellll!

umm, Im sorry i couldn't read your entire post. You shouldn't have bunched it all together like that, you should have made it have paragraphs. I got a headache just by looking at it.

Tolaaaaannni: umm, Im sorry i couldn't read your entire post. You shouldn't have bunched it all together like that, you should have made it have paragraphs. I got a headache just by looking at it.

Sorry about that..I posted another topic yesterday and it was a bit long and it was lost nowhere to be seen on this site...I would spend more time trying to write more elaborate Font and spread,buti have to stick to quick chat mode, even in long topics because so many times my efforts to be neat and easy reading are lost enroute and i only have less than 2 hours a day on internet to read and post on up to 6 web sites some times...I try but its not easy to take my time when i have little time on line...

Naia,

I read your entire post and I wrote a lengthy reply but lost it unforrunately so here is another attempt at it.

The earlier thread you referenced here was discussing the commonality of Yoruba and Arabic words and it gave credit to Islam and scholars from Hausa, Fulani and Mali and so on as responsible vehicles for the word and diction donations. If you look in that thread you will see my response and in which I categorically claimed that these common words in Yoruba pre-existed Islam in Africa. These words have existed in the Yoruba language and as part of the spoken tongue long before Islam in Arabia, we have spoken these words far earlier before Hausa, Fulani or Mali knew Islam. Hausa and Fulani and Mali may have adopted into their tongue words such as "alubosa", "alubarika", "alafia", "asiri" and so on from Islamic influence on their land and culture but that is not the case with Yoruba. These words were already native to Yorubas before Islam came to Africa or before it was even founded in Arabia. I want to point out that there thousands of words in Yoruba language that have roots and meanings in semitic tongues, particularly old Hebrew which does not even exist in either of Hausa, Fulani or Mali.

Every word beginning with "Al" in the Yoruba language has root in old Hebrew. Even words beginning in "B" mostly are rooted in old Hebrew..

Baale ...... Head of Village i
Bale Ile.....Head of household
Baba......Father or Elder
Bere......Begin or Start or Origin
Bere or Ibere ....... Question, make plain or probe

Then there are words in Yoruba that have voluntary or involuntary function, example, "ri" (to see), which is involuntary; versus "wo" (to look), which is voluntary, and there are very many of such involuntary words that also derive from semitic roots. Ri itself is derived from Ra'a (Hebrew for see or gaze). If Islam was the donor of these words then we should not find them occuring in Ifa corpus at all but if you look in the odus you see mny of these words chapter after chapter. Now, here I would like to make a revelation,, actually two.

1. Ale for night is a common word between Yoruba and Arabic and derives from the semitic root L-Y-L Ashale (dark of the night) in Yoruba also derive from semitic root and is a combination of Ish and Alayl, the same combination that gave birth to the Arabic word Isha (dark of the night), from which the Muslim prayer of "Isha" was designated.

2. Ogboni is the fraternal order of the cosmic earth and a Yoruba priesthood order. They are primarily the custodians and stewards of the Yoruba cosmological belief system. They are responsible for social order and esoteric rituals in all of Yorubaland. All of the mysteries and the doctrines of the sacredness of life and nature as spelt out in the Ifa manuscript is endorsed by them and the legacy of its veiled nd unrevealed mysteries is guarded by the order. A Babalawo or Ifa practitioner is also a custodian of these mystries. The difference between the two is that Babalawo deals with the individual at a consultative level, whereas Ogboni is universal and deals with the society as a whole and its relationship, positive and negative, as a net balance with the forces of earth or nature. Ogboni in Yorubaland is an ancient order and the origin of the name is "Awgan" or sometimes spelt as "Awgen". It is also where Ogbeni came from as well as Agba. It also gave birth to the Roman name Eugene.

In the old world, Egypt was the land of esoteric and mystical scholarship. Mesopotamians and the Akkadiansand Babylonians went there to learn the secrets of nature and the mystery of creation and life. Every Prophet of God touched foot into Egypt. Awgen was an Egyptian, he was the foremost esoteric teacher and ended up in Assyria, most likely through wars, where he established an order in the stewardship of earth mysteries. His followers were largely fthose devoted in the study of divine truths but he was also believed to have enrolled farmers and hunters. Subsequently when Rome rose as an Empire and defeated and looted Assyria, long after Awgen had passed, the Awgan Order and Fraternity had blossomed and Rome adopted its teachings and modeled its own fratrnity after that of Awgan. I am to a large degree convinced that Awgan is same person as Ogun, but I am still reading up on him and cannot declare him to be Ogun yet. Wole Soyinka's comparison of two characters of Ogun in Yoruba mythology and Roman/Greek mythology is evident of who Awgan might be. . . .. . .and it is even solidified in the fact that the Romans also adopted the name and called it Eugene. Although their Eugene does not have same reference in culture that our Ogun does.

Now, let me speak to your claim that Yoruba is Bantu and the common words migrated outward from a central location in Bantuland to as far out as Arabia. I respectfully disagree with that notion. The culture and language co-share between Yoruba and other people belonging in the Bantu category is a wide gap and there is far less common words and meanings found between Yoruba and any Bantu speaking tongue than there are common words and meanings between Yoruba and Arabic or other proto-Semitic groups. A people is defined by nativity. When people migrate their nativity migrates with them and though they end up in new assimilations, their legacy and antiquities remain part and parcel of their customs, rituals, tongue and creeds. Such is the case for the Yorubas. Their rituals and tongue, worship and cosmological philosophy as well as arts and antiquities shares more in common with people outside the Bantu region than it does with them.

More disclosures will bs revealed on these truths when the Katanga project fully takes off. Archeologists and Historians are interested in the capital of Old Oyo. They believe given what has been revealed so far about Yoruba a new study and intrest is needed using contemporary tools and techniques and letting Katanga reveal what is buried underneath its soil.

Speaking of soil I want to revisit the Ogboni order and talk about the Edan. The Edan itself is an anchor. . ...it is symbolic and though many people mistake it for a piece of artwork but in actuality it is not art but rather a tool or instrument of altar worship. Again here, it is difficult not to assign its significance and reference back to the time of Eden and the mystery of the essence of duality in the creation of man and woman. I will stop here.

Cheers :-)

Hey i like your Info..I was trying to suggest myself that Yoruba words spread across the world from africa long before islam or christians existed,even though i still believe a few arabic words were brought to naija more recently....I have other words to consider like DURO and OJU and so on that show up in other languages from india to europe...Ah write more info if you can,i like to learn/study language history..No worry to me if you disagree with some of my thoughts, i am no expert and love the subject and dont mind learning more from you.. Its true,so much yoruba history is hidden in Nigeria in Oyo and Bini strong holds...I heard one keeper of yoruba ancient info say that he has seen stories that talk of 10,000 years of yoruba history... its interesting thathe also said it was in "cylinder" encryptions,the same as hindu and hebrew knowledge was stored

Dudu_Negro: Naia,

I read your entire post and I wrote a lengthy reply but lost it unforrunately so here is another attempt at it.

The earlier thread you referenced here was discussing the commonality of Yoruba and Arabic words and it gave credit to Islam and scholars from Hausa, Fulani and Mali and so on as responsible vehicles for the word and diction donations. If you look in that thread you will see my response and in which I categorically claimed that these common words in Yoruba pre-existed Islam in Africa. These words have existed in the Yoruba language and as part of the spoken tongue long before Islam in Arabia, we have spoken these words far earlier before Hausa, Fulani or Mali knew Islam. Hausa and Fulani and Mali may have adopted into their tongue words such as "alubosa", "alubarika", "alafia", "asiri" and so on from Islamic influence on their land and culture but that is not the case with Yoruba. These words were already native to Yorubas before Islam came to Africa or before it was even founded in Arabia. I want to point out that there thousands of words in Yoruba language that have roots and meanings in semitic tongues, particularly old Hebrew which does not even exist in either of Hausa, Fulani or Mali.

Every word beginning with "Al" in the Yoruba language has root in old Hebrew. Even words beginning in "B" mostly are rooted in old Hebrew..

Baale ...... Head of Village i
Bale Ile.....Head of household
Baba......Father or Elder
Bere......Begin or Start or Origin
Bere or Ibere ....... Question, make plain or probe

Then there are words in Yoruba that have voluntary or involuntary function, example, "ri" (to see), which is involuntary; versus "wo" (to look), which is voluntary, and there are very many of such involuntary words that also derive from semitic roots. Ri itself is derived from Ra'a (Hebrew for see or gaze). If Islam was the donor of these words then we should not find them occuring in Ifa corpus at all but if you look in the odus you see mny of these words chapter after chapter. Now, here I would like to make a revelation,, actually two.

1. Ale for night is a common word between Yoruba and Arabic and derives from the semitic root L-Y-L Ashale (dark of the night) in Yoruba also derive from semitic root and is a combination of Ish and Alayl, the same combination that gave birth to the Arabic word Isha (dark of the night), from which the Muslim prayer of "Isha" was designated.

2. Ogboni is the fraternal order of the cosmic earth and a Yoruba priesthood order. They are primarily the custodians and stewards of the Yoruba cosmological belief system. They are responsible for social order and esoteric rituals in all of Yorubaland. All of the mysteries and the doctrines of the sacredness of life and nature as spelt out in the Ifa manuscript is endorsed by them and the legacy of its veiled nd unrevealed mysteries is guarded by the order. A Babalawo or Ifa practitioner is also a custodian of these mystries. The difference between the two is that Babalawo deals with the individual at a consultative level, whereas Ogboni is universal and deals with the society as a whole and its relationship, positive and negative, as a net balance with the forces of earth or nature. Ogboni in Yorubaland is an ancient order and the origin of the name is "Awgan" or sometimes spelt as "Awgen". It is also where Ogbeni came from as well as Agba. It also gave birth to the Roman name Eugene.

In the old world, Egypt was the land of esoteric and mystical scholarship. Mesopotamians and the Akkadiansand Babylonians went there to learn the secrets of nature and the mystery of creation and life. Every Prophet of God touched foot into Egypt. Awgen was an Egyptian, he was the foremost esoteric teacher and ended up in Assyria, most likely through wars, where he established an order in the stewardship of earth mysteries. His followers were largely fthose devoted in the study of divine truths but he was also believed to have enrolled farmers and hunters. Subsequently when Rome rose as an Empire and defeated and looted Assyria, long after Awgen had passed, the Awgan Order and Fraternity had blossomed and Rome adopted its teachings and modeled its own fratrnity after that of Awgan. I am to a large degree convinced that Awgan is same person as Ogun, but I am still reading up on him and cannot declare him to be Ogun yet. Wole Soyinka's comparison of two characters of Ogun in Yoruba mythology and Roman/Greek mythology is evident of who Awgan might be. . . .. . .and it is even solidified in the fact that the Romans also adopted the name and called it Eugene. Although their Eugene does not have same reference in culture that our Ogun does.

Now, let me speak to your claim that Yoruba is Bantu and the common words migrated outward from a central location in Bantuland to as far out as Arabia. I respectfully disagree with that notion. The culture and language co-share between Yoruba and other people belonging in the Bantu category is a wide gap and there is far less common words and meanings found between Yoruba and any Bantu speaking tongue than there are common words and meanings between Yoruba and Arabic or other proto-Semitic groups. A people is defined by nativity. When people migrate their nativity migrates with them and though they end up in new assimilations, their legacy and antiquities remain part and parcel of their customs, rituals, tongue and creeds. Such is the case for the Yorubas. Their rituals and tongue, worship and cosmological philosophy as well as arts and antiquities shares more in common with people outside the Bantu region than it does with them.

More disclosures will bs revealed on these truths when the Katanga project fully takes off. Archeologists and Historians are interested in the capital of Old Oyo. They believe given what has been revealed so far about Yoruba a new study and intrest is needed using contemporary tools and techniques and letting Katanga reveal what is buried underneath its soil.

Speaking of soil I want to revisit the Ogboni order and talk about the Edan. The Edan itself is an anchor. . ...it is symbolic and though many people mistake it for a piece of artwork but in actuality it is not art but rather a tool or instrument of altar worship. Again here, it is difficult not to assign its significance and reference back to the time of Eden and the mystery of the essence of duality in the creation of man and woman. I will stop here.

Cheers :-)

write more info if you can,i like to learn/study language history

write more what?

and what happened to google?

you can start your learning from there instead of nl.

Naia,

Thank you, a lot has already been told on the subject of Yoruba rootsand migration. Iam one of those who hold steadfastly in my convinction that the Yoruba commonwealth today is a summation of people who descended from varied migrant bloodlines in the Afro Asia zone and whose only common cultural dna is their proto-semitism. Some are descended through the Yemeni sector, some from Assyria, others from upper Egypt (Sudan-Nubia) and then some others from Canaan. Together, they all shared ancestry and native customs.


Tpia,

Google is a good resource, it shares but it does not teach! The history of Yoruba is a classic and needs to be taught.

Dudu_Negro: Naia,

Thank you, a lot has already been told on the subject of Yoruba rootsand migration. Iam one of those who hold steadfastly in my convinction that the Yoruba commonwealth today is a summation of people who descended from varied migrant bloodlines in the Afro Asia zone and whose only common cultural dna is their proto-semitism. Some are descended through the Yemeni sector, some from Assyria, others from upper Egypt (Sudan-Nubia) and then some others from Canaan. Together, they all shared ancestry and native customs.


Tpia,

Google is a good resource, it shares but it does not teach! The history of Yoruba is a classic and needs to be taught.

The bolded portion, can we say Upper Nilotic people ? Do you think we can find the percentage of population contributed by the different migrations? Remember, I once mentioned the similarities in vowel positioning of o's and a's between the Yorubas and the Nilotic group of Luos? A recent research has indicated that the Igbos may be related to the Luos. My question is this, could the population of the Nilotic migrant group have been the largest? Otherwise, were they the earliest settlers to lower Niger who formed the splinter groups of Igala, Igbo, Yoruba e.t.c. hundreds of years ago? It seems possible, negro!

In addition, I think the Canaan theory is very much true as the Yoruba traditional religion is infused with Hebrew names of God, though corrupted over the years.

Tony,

To obtain a somewhat defining lead from popuation poll of the sub parts to identify Nilotic roots is impossible. What standards will you use to delineate? Remember, Egypt and Sudan were one land about 100 yrs ago or less.

To understand the settlement wave and where it came from you must attend to the most important aspect of human emotion - fear!

The fear of loss is what triggers the fight or flee decision tree. We came from earth and we must return to it. Throughout life we continue to depend for sustenance and well being. When its survival is threatened man attaches or detaches from land. What is it about land that compels a man to attach himself and fight away the threat instead of detaching and fleeing? If the land is no longer sustainable what is the reward for staying? The search forsustainability decides settlement.

Hence you must explore a peoples history and antiquities and particularly their art andworship in order to place roots. If I understand the Igbo lannguage and customs and rituals well enough i would have done some tracing. There is nothing so farfrom any of my readings that connect Yoruba with anyone

The Beriberi and Tapa people are the only ones to my knowledge that Yoruba share some commonality with.

It interesting that major devastating volcanic eruptions that darkened the whole world with ash clouds for up to ten years are dated to have occured during most popular human migrations of nations ,like isreal out of egypt at the same time as south pacific islanders sailed into the great ocean to resettle in hawaii and their migration history dates to the same as isreal out of egypt and the eruption of mega volcano in mediteranean area..The two accounts from hawaii and isreal talk of a time of darkness upon the earth and the volcanic research shows ash being spread throughout the world in clouds from that time.....there is also 1500 years ago at the time of islam birth when arabia settlements fell into squalor making room for islams leader to rise to the peoples aid and islam was born..Its time coincides with the fall of King Aurthur England kingoms fall and disappearance and also a second hawaiian immigration in a second time of darkness with a second mega volcano dated to have erupted same period,where king aurthur england history talks of the sky turning black for years and rivers turn to blood colour as does the history in Egypt/isrealites and hawaiians talking of the time of darkness on earth....Its true,the world changes drastically around entire nations leading them to "FEAR" and it motivates them to amazing feats of migration and spiritual/religious changes.... any yoruba speaker in Nigeria is good for learning about yoruba and we never know who we are going to meet on any website such as Nairaland...I also got storys off of google,youtube ETC.. and i have stories now from NL negro dudu that dont readily show up on youtube and google...Every location and every person is an oppurtunity to learn or at least review what we learned in life

Dudu Negro: Ogboni in Yorubaland is an ancient order and the origin of the name is "Awgan" or sometimes spelt as "Awgen". It is also where Ogbeni came from as well as Agba. It also gave birth to the Roman name Eugene.

Dude Negro: Wole Soyinka's comparison of two characters of Ogun in Yoruba mythology and Roman/Greek mythology is evident of who Awgan might be. . . .. . .and it is even solidified in the fact that the Romans also adopted the name and called it Eugene. Although their Eugene does not have same reference in culture that our Ogun does.

Eugene is just a name that means "well born".

http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=Eugene

I don't see how you could think it has a connection to Ogun or Ogboni.

I never said it has a connection to Ogun.

What I say is Eugene is the Latinized version of Awgan/Awgen.

Hahaha

Dudu_Negro: I never said it has a connection to Ogun.

What I say is Eugene is the Latinized version of Awgan/Awgen.

Well it's obviously not unless Awgen means the exact same thing. It's not even of Roman origin anyway. It has a Greek origin.

Look at the word

"eu" (which means "good" like the "eu" in eugenics or eusocial or the Greek 'euangelion')

+

"gene" (which means "birth": http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/γενεά)

http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.04.0057%3Aentry%3Deu%29genh%2Fs

This is a very basic kind of name which does not need an external origin for a culture to have it.