I have observed that modern Christians have established their own personal spiritual and moral standard and will either ignore or withdraw form a church that preaches different or more profound principles.

Check Naijababe babe’s submission on the thread:  Should The Church Have The Right To Demand A HIV Certificate Before Marriage?

naijababe:

Me i don't even know where these people get this kain idea that's just bang out of order. Should the church offer advice yes, should they counsel big yes but to force and then ask for a certificate please that to me is an intrusion. When i was about to get married i was told that i'd have to do a pregnancy test 3 weeks to my wedding and then bring the certificate to the pastor. I bluntly refused and had a xtian ceremony elsewhere not because I was pregnant but because i consider it an intrusion and invasion into my private life. Somebody should tell these churches where to get of sometimes

Do we have to take our pastors words and instructions on spirituality or do we take the ones that we like (suit us) from different pastors and move along?

we should cross check then with the Bible and see that its not in contradiction.

If we have to cross check them then why then do we need them We could as well do ourself without.

Hi Kajad,

Good question.

Lets start with scripture

Hebrews 13
7 Remember those who rule over you, who have spoken the word of God to you, whose faith follow, considering the outcome of their conduct.
17 Obey those who rule over you, and be submissive, for they watch out for your souls, as those who must give account. Let them do so with joy and not with grief, for that would be unprofitable for you.

Matthew 23
8 But you, do not be called 'Rabbi'; for One is your Teacher, the Christ, and you are all brethren. 9 Do not call anyone on earth your father; for One is your Father, He who is in heaven. 10 And do not be called teachers; for One is your Teacher, the Christ. 11 But he who is greatest among you shall be your servant. 12 And whoever exalts himself will be humbled, and he who humbles himself will be exalted.

1Peter 5
3 nor as being lords over those entrusted to you, but being examples to the flock

1Corinthians 11
3 But I want you to know that the head of every man is Christ, the head of woman is man, and the head of Christ is God.

Reading the above scriptures, are they contradictory? One says "submit to those who have the rule", another says "nor as being Lords" another says call no man "rabbi/father". One seems to suggest "man is headed by Christ" another seems to be saying headship is in the church.

Like all scriptural truths, reading and understanding must be balanced. "The whole counsel of God" on a matter.

My take is this.

Men head homes, in the knowledge that they are accountable to Christ. We are all brothers and sisters in Christ, but in a church setting (as we are not discussing church structure, I won't touch on that!), to maintain order and for sound administration, certain people have roles and duties, giftings and callings and we should be in obedience to them.

So my answer to your question;

In church affairs we should submit to the elders/deacons for smooth running and progress. But if the outcome or the conduct is Biblically questionable, then question it, albeit in the right manner. I don't see that the Bible teaches ceding of your life's decision (who to marry, where to live, holiday destinations, tie/shirt combination ) to some "priestly" figure. Personal/family counsel is good, often required and may well be right. But it's just that counsel.

Going to church doesn't mean checking your mind/free will at the door. Just like in any well functioning family, it's good to talk.


Hope this help.

God bless

@TV01
Your detail explanation answers some questions. But in our ever changing world and in a situation like the one I quoted Naijababe above. Do you think one should ignore the pastor or go to another priest that will not demand the same requirements?

Changing world? - Malachi 3:6 - "For I am the Lord, I do not change; The Truth of God stands sure!

Firstly, can I say that I don't think NaijaBabe did anything untoward. If the "pastor" was scripturally "out of bounds" I think it would be impolite not to ignore him.

Is there a scriptural/legal requirement to be married in church? Not that I know of!

Many churches these days operate as organisations with "membership" requirements, "constitutions" and the like. Personally I do not see a Biblical mandate for this, and hence do not subscribe to this type of practice. But if you choose to join/attend such an organisation, I suppose you would expect to abide by its rules?

Organisations that sell products operate in markets right? So to maximise satisfaction, consumers shop around.

You pays your money and you take your choice.

Hope I'm making some sense.

God bless

God does not change but the world changes, our mode of communication is different form then for instance.

Christianity is by choice and belonging to any church is also by choice. Churches have some rules which could include little things as where various members sit.

Now sitting arrangement in the church is not biblical is it? And one is expected to abide by such rules right? So what you are saying is that if I do not like such church rules; I could wave it off as not being biblical and walk or go to where their rules suit me?

Hi Kajad,

Gotcha. I guess we are agreed on the unchanging nature and truth of God.

Christianity is a choice ~ True!

Church is a choice. Mmmmm!

My understanding is that when you repent towards God and have faith in Jesus Christ, you automatically become part of the body of Christ. The Ecclesia. So if you make a choice for Christianity, you instantly become part of the church as well.

So to me, church is not something you "go to" it's something "you are". The Bible says "Christ knows those who are His"

So wherever the disciples of Jesus Christ are gathered, there church is. I hope I am making myself clear.

Again I won't stray into church structure/functions, but if they (2 or more) meet in homes (as was the case in the early church), or anywhere else, all that is required to function as church is in the Bible.

Now, if men decide they want to build temples, install a priesthood, make sacrifices, have rules, regulations, constitutions bye laws, demand membership have peculiar doctrine, acquire a name and otherwise "differentiate" themselves, (i.e. make religion), who am I to stop them? But I certainly don't have to join them.

So, Christianity is a choice, church isn't, where and how you worship is.

God bless




But there is in fact only one Church. It has various appelations in scripture. But there is just one. So yes you can choose. You can literally choose from thousands of churches.

[/code] Christianity is a choice, church isn't,[code]

What do you mean church is not a choice?


The issue of HIV test came up when a pastor was picked by the parent of a bride and accused of conspiracy. That he was aware of the status of the guy and went ahead with marriage to ruin the life of their daughter. Another was asked if he knew about the HIV status of the couple before he went ahead to get involved in a life decision together. I think they are just been careful of what they do this days
On the issue of Pregnancy test, some do it on the basis that, a lady should not wear a white wedding dress which signifies virginity,  , but some will not marry you at all when they discover you are pregnant. I think this is just proving holy holy of the assembly, that they can only allow holy a matrimony.
It should be your decision to agree or disagree if you choose to stay with the said church

Different ministers function at different levels of faith and knowledge. Some have greater truths than others. Whatever church you are . You ought to submit to the authority there in every way.

Hebrews 13:17
17 Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves: for they watch for your souls, as they that must give account, that they may do it with joy, and not with grief: for that [is] unprofitable for you.

But If you have problem with any issue there. Go to the church authority for scriptural clarification, knowing that you may be wrong . Bit if the explanation is not convincing to you. You are free to move to a church who's doctrine suits your heart.

Also ,A man has to be led of the holyghost before changing church.