Salaam brothers and sisters,

I am not in a good place right now and I am having troubles with my faith. My name is Abdul and I am based in the UK. My problem with the faith started at work and it is really affecting me. I work in a multi-national firm with lots of employees from different religious backgrounds. Muslims are the minority there and I feel discriminated against but sometimes I feel guilty for the discrimination.

There are two major problems. The first one started with our bonding day (every last friday, the staff from our floor and department meet in a bar). The problem came when some of my fellow muslim workers challenged it because the bar is a place where alcohol is sold. The departments and floor have been doing this bonding day at the bar for over 7 years. The departments listened to us and cancelled the bonding day since there was no other place to meet and socialize that would be convenient. Many of the non-muslim workers were fed up with this change. The non-muslims stopped talking to all the muslim workers. There was even one of my sisters (a fellow muslim worker) that was crying in the toilet because none of the fellow workers came to her party again. they stopped. These people are very smart! they won't insult you in your front but they will keep a distance from you. I am a friendly guy and I still had some freinds. But the problem did not end there. There was a worker that was fed up with the change and complained bitterly about not meeting at the bar. He said that muslims were intolerant that they should not go to the bar if they did not want to meet there. He also said that there were christians who didnt drink but enjoyed the bar and that only muslims cause problems. We complained about his attitude and he was suspended. When this happened, it was the final straw, all our non-muslim workers just avoid us. It is painful when you see people going out of their way to avoid you. I dont know how to deal with this issue and I do not want to quit my job.


The other problem is when I got promoted to the finance section (on the same floor). My company engages in riba as they invest in shares of alcohol companies, gambling and any company that can return a heavy profit. I had to do some finance courses to be promoted to the finance department. I had to ask a fellow muslim how he was comfortable with such activites. My muslim brother gave me a shocking answer. He said that anyone that knows finance and the Quran knows that the Quran is wrong about riba. He said that there is no islamic country that does not have interest in foreign accounts just like the rest of other countries. He also said that only an illiterate will complain about interest because interest and profit are similar terms. He said that there is no difference in charging interest rate that will yeild 50% profit and charging someone with an upfront sale price that will yield a 50% profit. All profit is cheating because you sell more than what a product is worth. I was totally shocked but after some research, his argument seems true. concerning the alcohol and gambling, he said that he does not drink or gamble so he can not be held responsible. He also said that unless Allah wants him to be jobless

Again, another issue is this reaction to the anti-islamic movie. We had a big debate at work. The non-muslims were saying that there should be no punishment for blasphemy and apostacy while some of us muslims were arguing that it is not a right to insult and cause offence. Personally, I listened to the argument and as a Nigerian muslim, I believe that there should be no punishment for apostasy or blasphemy. Me and my co-worker friends used to make fun of christians and their 3 in 1 god. I can not ask for someones punishment when I am guilty of the same thing. Another point was made that the Quran itself will be classed as blasphemy to christians if christians were to have blasphemy laws in the UK. They believe that Jesus (PBUH) is a god. We muslims say that he is a prophet.


My issues at work are stressing me. Some of my non-muslim co-workers avoid me and other fellow muslims as if we are terrorists. The riba issue and how my friend that is a muslim is saying that the Quran is wrong about riba is, also affecting me. How can the Quran be wrong? And why are islamic countries using interest in foriegn accounts and firms? The countries I checked were Iran (oil in foreign exchange reserves), Saudi Arabia and Pakistan.

Please, I need advise on these issues.

^Salam Alaykum my brother, wow! I think I can identify with some of your dilemma.However, you need to understand stand Islamic injunctions are independent of people, even Muslims. So, whether some Muslims practise them (properly) or not, those issues remain valid. As for interest, it's quite possible that those Muslim countries have little or no choice because they won't be able to carry-out international trade without those interest bearing instruments. Another thing that has happened over the years is that western banks were using interest abandoned by Muslim governments to support causes, organizations, institutions and governments that were practically against Islam and Muslims. I have it on reasonable authority that this facilitated a review of many Muslims on the matter.

Please know that most rules in Islam are not absolute and certain condition may alter their implementation. I am a little bit busy but just wanted to respond to you.

@OP: i'm not a muslim but i believe that every one serious wit their faith ll face wat u re facing in one way or the other so i can relate wit u. i would advice that u learn wat is expected of u as a muslim and strive to follow it. however, wisdom is necessary and be considerate of everyone around u. u can also call ur fellow muslims and talk to them. a workplace is not a religious center and it is absurd to expect everyone to follow ur religious convictions. if u re not comfortable wit bonding in a bar(which i see no reason why u should be uncomfortable since u work in an alcoholic company), decide not to come for d party than depriving everyone else from having their fun. if ur religion doesn't agree wit something, u have to make that sacrifice and not others. it's not healthy when a group of pple are sidelined in a place of work. u can also call a general meeting and get ur fellow muslims to apologize to all the staff and explain ur reasons for not wanting d bonding party and decide in future to either make personal sacrifices yourselves or decide to participate in ways that it would not affect ur faith. God be wit u!

@Abdulsleek, may Allah strenghten your faith amin.

Living and working within a non-muslim environment comes with its challenges, some of these challenges are what you have just listed.

On the first issue on "bonding day", personally, i think your company is just trying to cut overhead cost and looking for an excuse for i believe they can find a better venue or exempt the muslims altogether. I reason with bukatyn's comment, calling your collegues and iron things out would go a long way in changing their minds.

On the second issue, "riba", i think you'll need an islamic scholar on this, you didnt start work in that section abi? and the company is not a bank or is it? your muslim collegue is just muddling things up, Allah Has made what is lawful in terms of profit and what is forbidden in terms of usury clear(Q 2vs 275). I think you should try islamqa and browse through their fatwa on working in finance or ask...

On the third, avoid such sensitive topics at work, if its to explain a certain islamic belief, i can do that but once it gets to arguments, i discontinue the discuss. I think its not healthy in an office environment.

May Allah be with you amin.

maclatunji: ^Salam Alaykum my brother, wow! I think I can identify with some of your dilemma.However, you need to understand stand Islamic injunctions are independent of people, even Muslims. So, whether some Muslims practise them (properly) or not, those issues remain valid. As for interest, it's quite possible that those Muslim countries have little or no choice because they won't be able to carry-out international trade without those interest bearing instruments. Another thing that has happened over the years is that western banks were using interest abandoned by Muslim governments to support causes, organizations, institutions and governments that were practically against Islam and Muslims. I have it on reasonable authority that this facilitated a review of many Muslims on the matter.

Please know that most rules in Islam are not absolute and certain condition may alter their implementation. I am a little bit busy but just wanted to respond to you.

Thank you for your input. May Allah reward you.

I see your point in some Islamic countries not having a choice in engaging in Riba.
I still am concerned though, are there Islamic countries that you know of that do not engage in riba?

What do you mean by saying that rules in Islam are not absolute? My riba co-worker also said something similar

bukatyne: @OP: i'm not a muslim but i believe that every one serious wit their faith ll face wat u re facing in one way or the other so i can relate wit u. i would advice that u learn wat is expected of u as a muslim and strive to follow it. however, wisdom is necessary and be considerate of everyone around u. u can also call ur fellow muslims and talk to them. a workplace is not a religious center and it is absurd to expect everyone to follow ur religious convictions. if u re not comfortable wit bonding in a bar(which i see no reason why u should be uncomfortable since u work in an alcoholic company), decide not to come for d party than depriving everyone else from having their fun. if ur religion doesn't agree wit something, u have to make that sacrifice and not others. it's not healthy when a group of pple are sidelined in a place of work. u can also call a general meeting and get ur fellow muslims to apologize to all the staff and explain ur reasons for not wanting d bonding party and decide in future to either make personal sacrifices yourselves or decide to participate in ways that it would not affect ur faith. God be wit u!

Thanks for your practical input. Are u sure u are not a Muslim?

bukatyne: @OP: i'm not a muslim but i believe that every one serious wit their faith ll face wat u re facing in one way or the other so i can relate wit u. i would advice that u learn wat is expected of u as a muslim and strive to follow it. however, wisdom is necessary and be considerate of everyone around u. u can also call ur fellow muslims and talk to them. a workplace is not a religious center and it is absurd to expect everyone to follow ur religious convictions. if u re not comfortable wit bonding in a bar(which i see no reason why u should be uncomfortable since u work in an alcoholic company), decide not to come for d party than depriving everyone else from having their fun. if ur religion doesn't agree wit something, u have to make that sacrifice and not others. it's not healthy when a group of pple are sidelined in a place of work. u can also call a general meeting and get ur fellow muslims to apologize to all the staff and explain ur reasons for not wanting d bonding party and decide in future to either make personal sacrifices yourselves or decide to participate in ways that it would not affect ur faith. God be wit u!

Thanks for your practical input. Are u sure u are not a Muslim?

sino: @Abdulsleek, may Allah strenghten your faith amin.

Living and working within a non-muslim environment comes with its challenges, some of these challenges are what you have just listed.

On the first issue on "bonding day", personally, i think your company is just trying to cut overhead cost and looking for an excuse for i believe they can find a better venue or exempt the muslims altogether. I reason with bukatyn's comment, calling your collegues and iron things out would go a long way in changing their minds.

On the second issue, "riba", i think you'll need an islamic scholar on this, you didnt start work in that section abi? and the company is not a bank or is it? your muslim collegue is just muddling things up, Allah Has made what is lawful in terms of profit and what is forbidden in terms of usury clear(Q 2vs 275). I think you should try islamqa and browse through their fatwa on working in finance or ask...

On the third, avoid such sensitive topics at work, if its to explain a certain islamic belief, i can do that but once it gets to arguments, i discontinue the discuss. I think its not healthy in an office environment.

May Allah be with you amin.

Thank you for your advice. May Allah reward you.

My company is not a bank. They carry out IT solutions to finance companies and they also engage in investments.

Concerning the bonding day, the company really can not find another place because we are on the high street next to shops and bars. There is no hall around us to meet that is near.

As for the riba, I thought I could get some answers here. Also, it is unfortunate that it is only such debates that we Muslims and non Muslim workers talk to each other. I don't agree with your suggestion to refrain from the debates as they are a good source of learning. I didn't know that the queen was the head of the English church. Also, the debates usually happens on Fridays when we finish early

I need time, will seek it to address you properly, Insha Allah.

maclatunji: I need time, will seek it to address you properly, Insha Allah.

No problem. Thank you very mych

AbdulSleek: Salaam brothers and sisters,

Wa alaikum assalam wa rahmatullahi wa barakatuh!

I am not in a good place right now and I am having troubles with my faith. My name is Abdul and I am based in the UK. My problem with the faith started at work and it is really affecting me. I work in a multi-national firm with lots of employees from different religious backgrounds. Muslims are the minority there and I feel discriminated against but sometimes I feel guilty for the discrimination.

There are two major problems. The first one started with our bonding day (every last friday, the staff from our floor and department meet in a bar). The problem came when some of my fellow muslim workers challenged it because the bar is a place where alcohol is sold. The departments and floor have been doing this bonding day at the bar for over 7 years. The departments listened to us and cancelled the bonding day since there was no other place to meet and socialize that would be convenient. Many of the non-muslim workers were fed up with this change. The non-muslims stopped talking to all the muslim workers. There was even one of my sisters (a fellow muslim worker) that was crying in the toilet because none of the fellow workers came to her party again. they stopped. These people are very smart! they won't insult you in your front but they will keep a distance from you. I am a friendly guy and I still had some freinds. But the problem did not end there. There was a worker that was fed up with the change and complained bitterly about not meeting at the bar. He said that muslims were intolerant that they should not go to the bar if they did not want to meet there. He also said that there were christians who didnt drink but enjoyed the bar and that only muslims cause problems. We complained about his attitude and he was suspended. When this happened, it was the final straw, all our non-muslim workers just avoid us. It is painful when you see people going out of their way to avoid you. I dont know how to deal with this issue and I do not want to quit my job.

Sincerely brother,being a muslim especially around non-muslims,especially the ones with prejudice and fanatical or evangelical christians isn't something easy if you don't have a strong will to confront them and make sure they don't bother you.based on what I can see from you explanation,the problem you're having is not with your work directly.its with keeping non-muslim friends.if these non-muslims treasure your friendship,there should be compromise.friendship like marriage has to do with compromise.anyone who is ready to avoid you is not worth your attention.are those you consider friends really your friends? Friends should care about the sensitivity of others.

Also,I see no reason why your company should cancel the get together for non-muslims.I think your company is just looking for an excuse to do that.I honestly think the non-muslims should continue their appointment every friday in the bar.remember the Quran says "there is no compulsion in religion".then another day can be chosen for the muslims to come together with no alcohol,and in which non-muslims can also participate.I'm sure not serving alcohol will not make them suffocate.alcohol is not air!

Another solution could be all of you go to the bar or may be a restaurant.then the muslims can have a table to their own without alcohol while the non-muslims have their table with alcohol.ofcourse that is based on the fact that we normally patronize restaurants,supermarkets and places alcohol is sold but we do not buy alcohol and we don't share table with those consuming it.

The second option needs self-control and knowledge in order that anyone of you people gathered there as muslims do not fall into temptation and end up embarassing the other muslims by wanting to try a sip of alcohol to the cheer and laughter of non-muslims.if among you there is a "weak link",then try the first option.

The other problem is when I got promoted to the finance section (on the same floor). My company engages in riba as they invest in shares of alcohol companies, gambling and any company that can return a heavy profit. I had to do some finance courses to be promoted to the finance department. I had to ask a fellow muslim how he was comfortable with such activites. My muslim brother gave me a shocking answer. He said that anyone that knows finance and the Quran knows that the Quran is wrong about riba. He said that there is no islamic country that does not have interest in foreign accounts just like the rest of other countries. He also said that only an illiterate will complain about interest because interest and profit are similar terms. He said that there is no difference in charging interest rate that will yeild 50% profit and charging someone with an upfront sale price that will yield a 50% profit. All profit is cheating because you sell more than what a product is worth. I was totally shocked but after some research, his argument seems true. concerning the alcohol and gambling, he said that he does not drink or gamble so he can not be held responsible. He also said that unless Allah wants him to be jobless

You raised a number of points in the above.

First you must educate yourself and may be your muslim friend too on the difference between riba collected on money and profit collected by trading an object.I am sure you will find many differences just by googling.

Also if your company engage in selling alcohol or gambling that doesn't concern you directly.you're not serving anyone alcohol by selling to him and you're not promoting it by displaying or supplying it.since you're in the finance department and you get to calculate bills,you're indirectly facilitating an alcohol business you have no choice on.now I am not an expert in islamic law and I am not a faqih.so my opinion are just opinions and you can further ask a faqih (islamic jurist) on such matters.but the general view I have come across is that you can work in a business environment dealing with alcohol if you have no saying in decision making,if you have no job to sustain yourself and family members.if your sustenance depends on the job,then work.but you should always be on alert to find a new job that does not deal in haram business.ofcourse that may be hard to find in a place like the UK.but if you come across a job that have no haram business in it,and that job can sustain your family even if the pay is less,then you should quit your current job.

The good thing about Islam and islamic laws is practicality.the Quran clearly states that Allah (swt) intends to place no burden upon us (through these laws).

As for the countries said to be collecting riba from banks in non-muslim countries I will deal on that further shortly.

Again, another issue is this reaction to the anti-islamic movie. We had a big debate at work. The non-muslims were saying that there should be no punishment for blasphemy and apostacy while some of us muslims were arguing that it is not a right to insult and cause offence. Personally, I listened to the argument and as a Nigerian muslim, I believe that there should be no punishment for apostasy or blasphemy. Me and my co-worker friends used to make fun of christians and their 3 in 1 god. I can not ask for someones punishment when I am guilty of the same thing. Another point was made that the Quran itself will be classed as blasphemy to christians if christians were to have blasphemy laws in the UK. They believe that Jesus (PBUH) is a god. We muslims say that he is a prophet.

Regarding the movie,I think this isn't a case of blasphemy or apostacy.in the Quran itself there is no stipulated punishment for either apostacy or blasphemy.the Quran clearly gives freedom to believe.the Quran states "let him who wills believe and let him who wills disbelieve".the context for punishing for apostacy or blasphemy most times is connected with treason,corruption or assault against the muslim society at large.when it reaches those stages,the matter is no longer confined to blasphemy on a personal scale/level by making fun for instance.it becomes on the societal scale where an individual case is used by the enemies of islam to undermine the faith and spread ill-intentions.the case of salman rushdie is an example.

So there is more to the issue than the way the westerners are made to believe by saying it is "freedom".also slander,defamation and insult cannot be "freedom of speech".you're not free to offend me.ofcourse violent reaction is not the means to react islamically.but not every muslim is an islamic scholar or literate at all and when emotions come in,muslims are humans too.anything can happen.

My issues at work are stressing me. Some of my non-muslim co-workers avoid me and other fellow muslims as if we are terrorists. The riba issue and how my friend that is a muslim is saying that the Quran is wrong about riba is, also affecting me. How can the Quran be wrong? And why are islamic countries using interest in foriegn accounts and firms? The countries I checked were Iran (oil in foreign exchange reserves), Saudi Arabia and Pakistan.

Please, I need advise on these issues.

Based on the issue of collecting riba,you should understand one thing.Allah (swt) have placed provisions such as Khums and Zakat to ease the situation of the muslims and alleviate poverty in the muslim state.therefore collecting loans by a muslim from another muslim with the condition of interest is haram because whether you succeed in the purpose of collecting the loan or not you will still have to refund more than you are borrowed.that is actually also a difference between profit and riba-there is the factor of compulsion or obligation to more than you can bear even in outragious ways.

So the bottom line is a muslim collecting or giving riba to another muslim is completely haram.now when the situation involve non-muslims,the rule change.you're playing by their rules,so you may collect riba but you cannot give riba to a non-muslim.if the bank is owned by both muslims and non-muslims or in a country that is mixed of muslims and non-muslims the rule again change.

I am giving you these guidelines from my "marja-at-taqlid" who happens to be Ayatollah Ali Sistani and as a Shia Muslim.the sunni views may be the same,similar or slightly different depending on their interpretation.but I expect the Sunni view especially the salafist/wahhabi interpretation to be more inflexible and strict,and may be impractical from a Shia point of view.but all in all,whether sunni or shia,you should get a clearer idea about Islam generally.so I will leave you with questions and answers on riba in a post I previously made on nairaland quoting the views of Ayatollah Ali Sistani (it should give you insight as to why muslim countries may be getting interest from foreign banks in non-muslim countries) :

https://www.nairaland.com/259031/muslim-keep-fixed-deposit-account#10974518

LagosShia: Rulings on deposting money in banks as per the view of Grand Ayatullah Ali Sistani:

Q62: What is the ruling on depositing money in banks sponsored by Muslim and non-Muslim governments, with the stipulated condition of receiving interest?

A: Depositing in banks of non-Muslim countries is permissible in every case, even if it is under the stipulated condition of obtaining interest. As for depositing in government banks of Muslim countries under the stipulated condition of obtaining interest, then it is prohibited. But, if it is without this condition, then the issue is free of interest (riba) but it is not permissible to spend the acquired money without referring to al-hakim al-shar'ie (legal expert in islamic jurisprudence) or his representative. (FM, p. 405)

Q63: Is there a difference here between the principal and interest which the banks (in Muslim countries) give to the depositor?

A: No, there is no difference between them. One is not permitted to spend from anything taken from government banks in Muslim countries except by referring to al-hakim al-shar'ie or his representative. (FM, p. 405)

Q64: If I know that the bank will give me interest even without stipulating the conditions, is it permissible for me to deposit in a savings account that takes the form of a term-deposit?

A: Yes, it is permissible, as long as you do not stipulate the conditions of interest. (FM, p. 406)

Q65: Is it permissible to take interest from unbelievers, especially for those who live in their countries?

A: Yes, apparently one is allowed to take interest from the unbelievers, whose property is not honored. God knows best. (MMS, p. 27, Q49)

Q66: A national bank (in a Muslim country) offers a project to its clients in which a person deposits a sum of money in the order of 1,000 dirhams as a deposit which can be withdrawn at any time. It announces that after a period of time, a lottery will be drawn and the bank will grant a specific gift to the investors. Is it permissible to deposit with this intention?

A: Depositing with the condition of a gift is usury and therefore prohibited. By condition is meant to make the deposit with the requirement that the bank should give the gift. But the mere knowledge that the bank will grant it (gift) does not harm the permissibility of investing and the lawfulness of the granted gift. God knows best. (MMS, p. 36, Q76)

Q67: A person does not own a house to reside in. Is it permissible for him to borrow from government banks with interest for the purpose of building his own house?

A: It is not permissible to borrow with the condition of interest for any reason, but it is permissible to take the money from it (bank), though not with the intention of a loan, and to legitimize its spending by referring to al-hakim al-shar'ie or his representative. (FM, pp. 406-7)

http://sistani.org/index.php/biography/index.php?p=251364&id=50&pid=2440

Question :
If a Muslim tries to get from the bank’s cash dispensing machine some of his own money and more money than what he had asked for is dispensed, is he allowed to take the extra money without the bank knowing about it?

Answer :
It is not allowed.

read more on related issues:

http://www.sistani.org/index.php?p=616687&id=1132

good clarification lagoshia, but try to resist the urge to bring in divisive sectarian statements into your posts. you make some of us laugh.

snubish: good clarification lagoshia, but try to resist the urge to bring in divisive sectarian statements into your posts. you make some of us laugh.

Thanks for the compliment.however the intention behind touching on different point of views in Islam wasn't meant to create division.we can disagree atimes without forming divisions.let difference in opinions be seen as blessing and mercy instead of negatively.

LagosShia:
Wa alaikum assalam wa rahmatullahi wa barakatuh!



Sincerely brother,being a muslim especially around non-muslims,especially the ones with prejudice and fanatical or evangelical christians isn't something easy if you don't have a strong will to confront them and make sure they don't bother you.based on what I can see from you explanation,the problem you're having is not with your work directly.its with keeping non-muslim friends.if these non-muslims treasure your friendship,there should be compromise.friendship like marriage has to do with compromise.anyone who is ready to avoid you is not worth your attention.are those you consider friends really your friends? Friends should care about the sensitivity of others.

Also,I see no reason why your company should cancel the get together for non-muslims.I think your company is just looking for an excuse to do that.I honestly think the non-muslims should continue their appointment every friday in the bar.remember the Quran says "there is no compulsion in religion".then another day can be chosen for the muslims to come together with no alcohol,and in which non-muslims can also participate.I'm sure not serving alcohol will not make them suffocate.alcohol is not air!

Another solution could be all of you go to the bar or may be a restaurant.then the muslims can have a table to their own without alcohol while the non-muslims have their table with alcohol.ofcourse that is based on the fact that we normally patronize restaurants,supermarkets and places alcohol is sold but we do not buy alcohol and we don't share table with those consuming it.

The second option needs self-control and knowledge in order that anyone of you people gathered there as muslims do not fall into temptation and end up embarassing the other muslims by wanting to try a sip of alcohol to the cheer and laughter of non-muslims.if among you there is a "weak link",then try the first option.


You raised a number of points in the above.

First you must educate yourself and may be your muslim friend too on the difference between riba collected on money and profit collected by trading an object.I am sure you will find many differences just by googling.

Also if your company engage in selling alcohol or gambling that doesn't concern you directly.you're not serving anyone alcohol by selling to him and you're not promoting it by displaying or supplying it.since you're in the finance department and you get to calculate bills,you're indirectly facilitating an alcohol business you have no choice on.now I am not an expert in islamic law and I am not a faqih.so my opinion are just opinions and you can further ask a faqih (islamic jurist) on such matters.but the general view I have come across is that you can work in a business environment dealing with alcohol if you have no saying in decision making,if you have no job to sustain yourself and family members.if your sustenance depends on the job,then work.but you should always be on alert to find a new job that does not deal in haram business.ofcourse that may be hard to find in a place like the UK.but if you come across a job that have no haram business in it,and that job can sustain your family even if the pay is less,then you should quit your current job.

The good thing about Islam and islamic laws is practicality.the Quran clearly states that Allah (swt) intends to place no burden upon us (through these laws).

As for the countries said to be collecting riba from banks in non-muslim countries I will deal on that further shortly.


Regarding the movie,I think this isn't a case of blasphemy or apostacy.in the Quran itself there is no stipulated punishment for either apostacy or blasphemy.the Quran clearly gives freedom to believe.the Quran states "let him who wills believe and let him who wills disbelieve".the context for punishing for apostacy or blasphemy most times is connected with treason,corruption or assault against the muslim society at large.when it reaches those stages,the matter is no longer confined to blasphemy on a personal scale/level by making fun for instance.it becomes on the societal scale where an individual case is used by the enemies of islam to undermine the faith and spread ill-intentions.the case of salman rushdie is an example.

So there is more to the issue than the way the westerners are made to believe by saying it is "freedom".also slander,defamation and insult cannot be "freedom of speech".you're not free to offend me.ofcourse violent reaction is not the means to react islamically.but not every muslim is an islamic scholar or literate at all and when emotions come in,muslims are humans too.anything can happen.




Based on the issue of collecting riba,you should understand one thing.Allah (swt) have placed provisions such as Khums and Zakat to ease the situation of the muslims and alleviate poverty in the muslim state.therefore collecting loans by a muslim from another muslim with the condition of interest is haram because whether you succeed in the purpose of collecting the loan or not you will still have to refund more than you are borrowed.that is actually also a difference between profit and riba-there is the factor of compulsion or obligation to more than you can bear even in outragious ways.

So the bottom line is a muslim collecting or giving riba to another muslim is completely haram.now when the situation involve non-muslims,the rule change.you're playing by their rules,so you may collect riba but you cannot give riba to a non-muslim.if the bank is owned by both muslims and non-muslims or in a country that is mixed of muslims and non-muslims the rule again change.

I am giving you these guidelines from my "marja-at-taqlid" who happens to be Ayatollah Ali Sistani and as a Shia Muslim.the sunni views may be the same,similar or slightly different depending on their interpretation.but I expect the Sunni view especially the salafist/wahhabi interpretation to be more inflexible and strict,and may be impractical from a Shia point of view.but all in all,whether sunni or shia,you should get a clearer idea about Islam generally.so I will leave you with questions and answers on riba in a post I previously made on nairaland quoting the views of Ayatollah Ali Sistani (it should give you insight as to why muslim countries may be getting interest from foreign banks in non-muslim countries) :

https://www.nairaland.com/259031/muslim-keep-fixed-deposit-account#10974518

Thank you for your input!

We are going to have a debate tommorow in the office again. Tommorow is the last Friday of the month. The topic is still on religion and blasphemy!


Concerning your reply, I am grateful for the info on RIBA. I am a Sunni muslim but your suggestions make sense. I am waiting for Maclatunji to help me find some countries that do not engage in RIBA. I want to correct my co-worker.



Salman Rushdie came up during the office debate and the non-muslims really defended him. I want to ask, why the death sentence on Salman Rushdie? He only wrote a book about the Satanic verses. I have always not supported blasphemy laws. Salman Rushdie should be called to correct his book but not killed or punished.



By the way, I cant quit my job. I am responsible for most of my family. It is a sad thing that I am left in a choice to engage in Riba.

AbdulSleek:

Thank you for your input!

We are going to have a debate tommorow in the office again. Tommorow is the last Friday of the month. The topic is still on religion and blasphemy!


Concerning your reply, I am grateful for the info on RIBA. I am a Sunni muslim but your suggestions make sense. I am waiting for Maclatunji to help me find some countries that do not engage in RIBA. I want to correct my co-worker.



Salman Rushdie came up during the office debate and the non-muslims really defended him. I want to ask, why the death sentence on Salman Rushdie? He only wrote a book about the Satanic verses. I have always not supported blasphemy laws. Salman Rushdie should be called to correct his book but not killed or punished.



By the way, I cant quit my job. I am responsible for most of my family. It is a sad thing that I am left in a choice to engage in Riba.

Brother you're welcome!

On the issue of rushdie,anyone who thinks that rushdie sat and wrote a book on his own imagination and power is deluded.rushdie's book was facilitated and rushdie given support and protection by british intelligence.who were the ones protecting rushdie for years under tight security like an head of state? I don't think the british govt. Offer any ordinary writer or citizen what was offered to rushdie.

Also rushdie was born muslim and he didn't only blaspheme or apostacize.he abandoned Islam and then went to the enemy camp to assault Islam and attack the muslims.that is treason and in any islamic state it carries the death penalty.you do not defect to an "enemy state" and declare open enmity against your own people and question the character of your "head of state" and then pretend suprise if sentenced to death in absentia.

The war they cannot win with their planes and bombs against islam by subduing muslims,they're using the pen to try to destroy Islam and destroy the faith of muslims.the pen is indeed mightier than the sword as Prophet Muhammad (sa) stated.the pen is being used as a weapon.

If I may ask,who really organize these religious debates in a work environment and to what end? I don't think religion should be taken to work.it will only create more tension and bad feelings.

LagosShia:

Brother you're welcome!

On the issue of rushdie,anyone who thinks that rushdie sat and wrote a book on his own imagination and power is deluded.rushdie's book was facilitated and rushdie given support and protection by british intelligence.who were the ones protecting rushdie for years under tight security like an head of state? I don't think the british govt. Offer any ordinary writer or citizen what was offered to rushdie.

Also rushdie was born muslim and he didn't only blaspheme or apostacize.he abandoned Islam and then went to the enemy camp to assault Islam and attack the muslims.that is treason and in any islamic state it carries the death penalty.you do not defect to an "enemy state" and declare open enmity against your own people and question the character of your "head of state" and then pretend suprise if sentenced to death in absentia.

The war they cannot win with their planes and bombs against islam by subduing muslims,they're using the pen to try to destroy Islam and destroy the faith of muslims.the pen is indeed mightier than the sword as Prophet Muhammad (sa) stated.the pen is being used as a weapon.

If I may ask,who really organize these religious debates in a work environment and to what end? I don't think religion should be taken to work.it will only create more tension and bad feelings.

The debates at work is not just about religion. The debates are on the current issues facing the world. The anti-islamic film just happens to be the current issue.


Concerning Salman Rushdie, his book was fiction. He did not get protection until there was a death penalty on his head. Rushdie is wrong but trying to kill him is unislamic. All
Rushdie did was to write a book. He does not have an army of followers protesting Islam or does he have some political party that goes around bashing Islam?

I am a Muslim but I can never support death for apostasy or blasphemy under any circumstances. The only reason to kill is for physical self defence or sometes punishment for murder.


Please, I respect your opinion. However, unless you can show me what Rushdie has done to physically harm one Muslim, you are no different from those unislamic fake clerics that will not put the death penalties for tyrannical Islamic leaders who kill innocent Muslims but will target kaffir for words.

Islam has already been given a bad name as a violent religion. When I see Muslims chanting for death of kaffir just because of insulting words towards Islam, it breaks my heart. Every life is a blessing from Allah. To kill a kaffir for his insulting words is to accept that Allah can not change the kaffirs heart. We should only punish those who punish others.

AbdulSleek:


Thanks for your practical input. Are u sure u are not a Muslim?

u re welcome! i'm 100% sure! a born again christian would stil face d same challenges. why d question?

AbdulSleek:


Thank you for your input. May Allah reward you.


I see your point in some Islamic countries not having a choice in engaging in Riba.

Please read this article for further information http://www.islamic-awareness.org/History/usury.html

AbdulSleek: I still am concerned though, are there Islamic countries that you know of that do not engage in riba?

I am not sure, I would have to be a country's Minister of Finance to truly answer that. The standard is they shouldn't at all.

AbdulSleek: What do you mean by saying that rules in Islam are not absolute? My riba co-worker also said something similar

Permissibility of haraam things in the case of necessity and the conditions governing that
I know that haraam things may be permissible if it becomes necessary to do them. Are there conditions governing this ruling so that it may be applied correctly?.

Praise be to Allaah.

Among the basic principles of Islamic sharee’ah, on which the scholars are agreed, is that cases of necessity make forbidden things permissible.

There is a great deal of evidence to support this principle in the Holy Qur'aan and the Prophet's Sunnah, for example, the verses in which Allah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“Forbidden to you (for food) are: Al‑Maitah (the dead animals — cattle — beast not slaughtered), blood, the flesh of swine, and that on which Allaah’s Name has not been mentioned while slaughtering (that which has been slaughtered as a sacrifice for others than Allaah, or has been slaughtered for idols) and that which has been killed by strangling, or by a violent blow, or by a headlong fall, or by the goring of horns — and that which has been (partly) eaten by a wild animal — unless you are able to slaughter it (before its death) ‑ and that which is sacrificed (slaughtered) on An‑Nusub (stone‑altars). (Forbidden) also is to use arrows seeking luck or decision; (all) that is Fisqun (disobedience of Allaah and sin). This day, those who disbelieved have given up all hope of your religion; so fear them not, but fear Me. This day, I have perfected your religion for you, completed My Favour upon you, and have chosen for you Islam as your religion. But as for him who is forced by severe hunger, with no inclination to sin (such can eat these above mentioned meats), then surely, Allaah is Oft‑Forgiving, Most Merciful”

[al-Maa’idah 5:3]

“And why should you not eat of that (meat) on which Allaah’s Name has been pronounced (at the time of slaughtering the animal), while He has explained to you in detail what is forbidden to you, except under compulsion of necessity?”

[al-An’am 6:119]

Examples of this principle include the following:

1. Eating dead meat for one who cannot find anything else and fears that he will die of hunger.

2. Speaking words of kufr when subjected to torture and force.

3. Warding off an aggressor even if that leads to killing him.

See: al-Ashya’ wa’l-Nazaa’ir by Ibn Nujaym, p. 85

Necessity means cases in which a person will be harmed if he does not take the haraam option, in which the harm will effect the five essentials which are: religion, life, honour, reason and wealth.

With regard to the conditions of a haraam thing becoming permissible in the case of necessity, Shaykh Muhammad ibn ‘Uthaymeen (may Allah have mercy on him) mentioned two conditions for that and he explained them in abundant detail with examples, as well as mentioning some objections and the response to them. Hence we will limit ourselves to quoting his words. He (may Allah have mercy on him) said:

This principle is one of the basic fiqhi principles which are indicated by sharee’ah: Everything that is forbidden becomes permissible in the case of necessity.

So what is forbidden becomes permissible in the case of necessity, but there are two conditions.

The first condition:

We should be compelled to do this specific haraam thing, meaning that we cannot find anything with which to meet that necessity except this haraam thing. If we can find something else, then it does not become permissible, even though it could meet our necessity.

The second condition:

The necessity should be met by that haraam thing; if that is not the case, then it remains haraam. If we are not certain whether it will meet the necessity or not, then it also remains haraam. That is because doing something haraam is definitely wrong and meeting necessity by means of it is something concerning which there is doubt, so we should not transgress by doing that which is definitely haraam for the sake of something concerning which there is doubt.

Hence the ruling varies concerning a starving man who cannot find anything but dead meat. In this case we say, Eat the dead meat. If he says that this is committing a haraam action, we say that it has become permissible because of necessity, because you have nothing else to eat apart from this and because if you eat it you will meet that necessity.

It was said to a man: If you drink alcohol, you will be cured of sickness. In this case we say: It is not permissible for you to drink alcohol even if you are told that it will heal you from sickness. Why is that?

Firstly, because there is no certainty that he will be healed by it; he may drink it and not be healed of sickness. We see many sick people taking beneficial medicines that they do not benefit from.

Secondly, the sick person may recover without any treatment, by putting his trust in Allah and praying to Him, and by means of people’s prayer (du’aa’) for him and so on. This is from the point of view of reason.

From the point of view of evidence, it is narrated in a hadeeth from the Prophet (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) that he said: “Allaah does not put your healing in that which He has forbidden to you.” The rationale behind this hadeeth is clear, because Allah only forbade it to us because it is harmful to us, so how can that which is haraam be a healing and a remedy?

Hence it is haraam to use haraam things as treatment, as the scholars have stated, and it cannot be said that this is a case of necessity, as some people think.

If someone were to say that a person is choking and he has nothing except a cup of wine, so is it permissible for him to drink this cup to stop him choking?

The answer is yes, because the two conditions are met in this case. He is compelled to use this exact thing and we are certain that the necessity will be met by it, so we would say: Drink the wine. But once the choking has stopped, he should stop drinking.

If someone were to say that a man found some meat that had been slaughtered in the halaal manner and some meat from an animal that had died a natural death, can he eat the dead meat because he is forced to do so by necessity?

The answer is that he cannot do that, because the necessity can be met by something else, so it is not permissible because the first condition is not met.

If a person were to say, I am thirsty and I have nothing but a cup of wine; can I drink it?

The answer is no, as the scholars said, because this is not a case of necessity; rather it will only make him more thirsty, so there is no benefit in transgressing and doing something haraam, because necessity will not be warded off by it and the second condition is not fulfilled.

If a person were to say: If a sick person has no choice but to drink blood as a remedy, is it permissible for him to do that? The answer is that it is not permissible for him to do that, because the two conditions are not met. End quote.

Sharh Manzoomah Usool al-Fiqh wa Qawaa’idihi (p. 59-61)

For more information on this principle, please see the answer to question number 137035.

And Allah knows best.

Source: http://islamqa.info/en/ref/130815

The above explains how rules may not be absolute in Islam. Please don't quote this post, the spam bot may ban you!

AbdulSleek:

The debates at work is not just about religion. The debates are on the current issues facing the world. The anti-islamic film just happens to be the current issue.


Concerning Salman Rushdie, his book was fiction. He did not get protection until there was a death penalty on his head. Rushdie is wrong but trying to kill him is unislamic. All
Rushdie did was to write a book. He does not have an army of followers protesting Islam or does he have some political party that goes around bashing Islam?

I am a Muslim but I can never support death for apostasy or blasphemy under any circumstances. The only reason to kill is for physical self defence or sometes punishment for murder.


Please, I respect your opinion. However, unless you can show me what Rushdie has done to physically harm one Muslim, you are no different from those unislamic fake clerics that will not put the death penalties for tyrannical Islamic leaders who kill innocent Muslims but will target kaffir for words.

Islam has already been given a bad name as a violent religion. When I see Muslims chanting for death of kaffir just because of insulting words towards Islam, it breaks my heart. Every life is a blessing from Allah. To kill a kaffir for his insulting words is to accept that Allah can not change the kaffirs heart. We should only punish those who punish others.

Please there is a difference between capital punishment and terrorism.the former is established by a knowledgeable Islamic scholar who specializes in Islamic law.

Talking about terrorism,the west have sponsored and still collaborate with terrorists who later on would "bite the hand that fed".then the west would use them to tarnish the image of Islam.

Please see these:
https://www.nairaland.com/863512/hilary-clinton-confesses-funded-wahhabis

https://www.nairaland.com/961495/timeline-sectarian-terrorism-against-shia

As for the case of salman rushdie,the first of a series of attack on the sanctity of islam,rushdie cannot deny the fact he knew what he was writing and the angry reaction of muslims.the british intelligence who can even count how many times you use your toilet seat know well how insulting Islam would result.the question is who's to be held accountable for the deaths that resulted during protests?

LagosShia:

Please there is a difference between capital punishment and terrorism.the former is established by a knowledgeable Islamic scholar who specializes in Islamic law.

Talking about terrorism,the west have sponsored and still collaborate with terrorists who later on would "bite the hand that fed".then the west would use them to tarnish the image of Islam.

Please see these:
https://www.nairaland.com/863512/hilary-clinton-confesses-funded-wahhabis

https://www.nairaland.com/961495/timeline-sectarian-terrorism-against-shia

As for the case of salman rushdie,the first of a series of attack on the sanctity of islam,rushdie cannot deny the fact he knew what he was writing and the angry reaction of muslims.the british intelligence who can even count how many times you use your toilet seat know well how insulting Islam would result.the question is who's to be held accountable for the deaths that resulted during protests?

So do you agree that we should not put the death penalty on Salman Rushdie?

This is another thing that puts my faith in confusion. Why do we muslims run to conspiracies when discussing simple issues? I returned from todays debate heartbroken again! The non-muslims made fun of us. Some of our debaters, especially those with proper Arab roots were running into conspiracies rather than debating the subject at hand. "the West this, the West that". I had to contribute and tell them to focus on the issue- blasphemy and apostacy and pluralism.

I agree with your comments on riba but why are you bringing the west and Hilary clinton into this? I know that the West attacks muslims but that is not the issue here.

bukatyne: u re welcome! i'm 100% sure! a born again christian would still face d same challenges. why d question?

No. Christians do not face the same challenges. You people are very flexible with your religion. We can see this in how christians can fit their religion into a capitalistic model which is materialistic at its core

@maclatunji


Thanks for all your help. You have been very helpful.

However, I still need more to correct my riba co-worker! He is a nightmare of a muslim. He actually said that the Quran is wrong on riba! I stat to wonder if one can live in the west and still be a devout muslim.

I am going to reread your links and search for more knowledge.

AbdulSleek:

No. Christians do not face the same challenges. You people are very flexible with your religion. We can see this in how christians can fit their religion into a capitalistic model which is materialistic at its core

Christianity is not a religion, it's a way of life so we necessarily don't have to lose our identity as christians. for example, d way a yoruba christian would eat, drink, greet, dress or dance is different from the way an igbo/hausa christian would do the same thing. God created us differently and loves when we showcase our styles/diversity to Him. christians also face d same challenges. a true christian wouldn't partake in some activities others see nothing wrong in and u know that the world hates people who are different esp when u are colleagues/mates. i assure u dat if u were a boss, ur colleagues would see ur difference in a positive light. if u feel people are wrong, you win them over wit d beauty of ur behavior and not your acts of self righteousness or condemnations. that's why i told you to read your koran very well and understand so that you ll not just do wat you see people doing but you know d right thing and how to defend it to others peacefully.

I am going to create a new thread concerning the debate we had today.

The non-muslims at my work were very attack minded today. I think they won the debate since they were more prepared and there were more of them.

bukatyne: Christianity is not a religion, it's a way of life so we necessarily don't have to lose our identity as christians. for example, d way a yoruba christian would eat, drink, greet, dress or dance is different from the way an igbo/hausa christian would do the same thing. God created us differently and loves when we showcase our styles/diversity to Him. christians also face d same challenges. a true christian wouldn't partake in some activities others see nothing wrong in and u know that the world hates people who are different esp when u are colleagues/mates. i assure u dat if u were a boss, ur colleagues would see ur difference in a positive light. if u feel people are wrong, you win them over wit d beauty of ur behavior and not your acts of self righteousness or condemnations. that's why i told you to read your koran very well and understand so that you ll not just do wat you see people doing but you know d right thing and how to defend it to others peacefully.

Are you preaching? You christians and your preaching sef!


Thanks for the words of encouragement. Why did you say that christianity is not a religion, do you no worship God or Jesus? Forgive me, I am not too versed in christianity!

AbdulSleek:


So do you agree that we should not put the death penalty on Salman Rushdie?

This is another thing that puts my faith in confusion. Why do we muslims run to conspiracies when discussing simple issues? I returned from todays debate heartbroken again! The non-muslims made fun of us. Some of our debaters, especially those with proper Arab roots were running into conspiracies rather than debating the subject at hand. "the West this, the West that". I had to contribute and tell them to focus on the issue- blasphemy and apostacy and pluralism.

I agree with your comments on riba but why are you bringing the west and Hilary clinton into this? I know that the West attacks muslims but that is not the issue here.

that's why i told you to read ur koran earlier. there is a concept in christianity i want you to adapt: u and u alone is accountable for your sin. even if u are tempted, it is ur sole responsiblity to resist. forget d west and concentrate on how to be a better person and if u know something is right stand firm on it witout being judgemental. it's best if u don't join them in the debates for now. take care

AbdulSleek:


Are you preaching? You christians and your preaching sef!


Thanks for the words of encouragement. Why did you say that christianity is not a religion, do you no worship God or Jesus? Forgive me, I am not too versed in christianity!

u are forgiven! lol! when i say christianity is not a religion but a way of life it means there are no rigid rules. it is not a set of rules of do this, do that but we have the Holy Spirit in us who guide us on everything so d way i worship God or see some things ll be different from d way you see it that's why some christians see nothing wrong in trousers, make up, adding attachments to hair etc but some count it as a sin etc. the most important thing is to rely on the leading of the Holy Spirit. we worship God and Jesus Christ And we worship Them in Spirit and in Truth. They are everywhere.

bukatyne: u are forgiven! lol! when i say christianity is not a religion but a way of life it means there are no rigid rules. it is not a set of rules of do this, do that but we have the Holy Spirit in us who guide us on everything so d way i worship God or see some things ll be different from d way you see it that's why some christians see nothing wrong in trousers, make up, adding attachments to hair etc but some count it as a sin etc. the most important thing is to rely on the leading of the Holy Spirit. we worship God and Jesus Christ And we worship Them in Spirit and in Truth. They are everywhere.

Sorry but you are preaching. Even in my workplace, the atheists say that christians preach too much!

How can you say that christianity has no rigid rules? Is homosexual activities accepted in christianity?

You are sounding like the Buddhists and hindus from Asia at my workplace. They always say that there is no right and wrong. Just follow the spiritual leanings!


As you can see, I work a lot and so, I spend a lot of time at work!

bukatyne: Christianity is not a religion, it's a way of life so we necessarily don't have to lose our identity as christians. for example, d way a yoruba christian would eat, drink, greet, dress or dance is different from the way an igbo/hausa christian would do the same thing. God created us differently and loves when we showcase our styles/diversity to Him. christians also face d same challenges. a true christian wouldn't partake in some activities others see nothing wrong in and u know that the world hates people who are different esp when u are colleagues/mates. i assure u dat if u were a boss, ur colleagues would see ur difference in a positive light. if u feel people are wrong, you win them over wit d beauty of ur behavior and not your acts of self righteousness or condemnations. that's why i told you to read your koran very well and understand so that you ll not just do wat you see people doing but you know d right thing and how to defend it to others peacefully.

This babe just dey yarn oputu.

AbdulSleek:

Sorry but you are preaching. Even in my workplace, the atheists say that christians preach too much!

How can you say that christianity has no rigid rules? Is homosexual activities accepted in christianity?

You are sounding like the Buddhists and hindus from Asia at my workplace. They always say that there is no right and wrong. Just follow the spiritual leanings!


As you can see, I work a lot and so, I spend a lot of time at work!

when i meant rules, i don't mean commandments. rules is a wrong choice of words cos u won't understand wat i mean. God has given us commandments like don't steal, lie, kill, commit adultery etc. wat i meant was that there is nothing like eat this, sit this way, don't look like this, don't sleep like this etc. i might prefer kneelin to pray, some may prefer standing, i might like to pray @ night, some might pray in the morning etc i'm sure u get my drift. i'm sorry if i gave u the impression that there are no clear definitions of right and wrong. there are.

maclatunji:

This babe just dey yarn oputu.

mr, if u don't understand my post, it's best u highlight the part u don't understand and ask.

AbdulSleek:


So do you agree that we should not put the death penalty on Salman Rushdie?

This is another thing that puts my faith in confusion. Why do we muslims run to conspiracies when discussing simple issues? I returned from todays debate heartbroken again! The non-muslims made fun of us. Some of our debaters, especially those with proper Arab roots were running into conspiracies rather than debating the subject at hand. "the West this, the West that". I had to contribute and tell them to focus on the issue- blasphemy and apostacy and pluralism.

I agree with your comments on riba but why are you bringing the west and Hilary clinton into this? I know that the West attacks muslims but that is not the issue here.

Hilary clinton is making it easier by confessing and you still call that conspiracy?

You think this mockery of islam by the western media isn't planned and acceptable to their governments? Why is questioning the holocaust a crime but defaming others is "free speech"?