Would love to here your conversion story How long have you been a member? Do you hold a calling? Would love to know you

LDS Nairalanders?

What does LDS mean ?

Are there any people on Nairaland that belong to the LDS church - - the church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints (LDS)?

SewaG.R.I.T.S:
Are there any people on Nairaland that belong to the LDS church - - the church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints (LDS)?

Ok..How long have you been a member?

@mkmyers,
Pretty much my whole life. Just wondering if anyone else on NL was one as well.

SewaG.R.I.T.S:
@mkmyers,
Pretty much my whole life. Just wondering if anyone else on NL was one as well.

How do you know that you are with the truth? Have you studied other sects/religion?

@OP

Are you aware that the LDS church was explicitly rascist until as late as 1978? They believe that black people are inferior descendants of Cain and are "cursed by blood". Blacks were not allowed to be baptised into the priesthood, something that all male mormons above age 13 are entitled to. In fact, if you had a single black ancestor, no matter how far back, you couldn't be baptized, essentially making you a second-class Mormon.

This wasn't just an informal practice, it was official church policy as enacted by their prophet Brigham Young. The federal government had to essentially kick the LDS church out of Nigeria back in the 60s over their rascist behaviour.

They only stopped in 1978 when god apparently "changed his mind about the negro issue" (their words). Note that they have never apologized for their past behavior, or even repudiated it. They expect us to believe that they were simply obeying god who was a rascist back then, but isn't any more.

I've always thought that it would take a superhuman amount of credulity for a black person to believe in mormonism. I don't know how you do it.

www.utlm.org/onlinebooks/curseofcain_part3.htm

@mykmyers
Yes, I attended other faiths, and most of my family belong to other faiths. I can't claim to know everything about the other religions that I studied, and I certainly don't claim to know everything there is to know about my own faith. I am a work in progress, lol. U asked how do I know it's true...well, because of two promises. The first is in James 1:5, which promises that if we lack wisdom we can ask of God who giveth to all men liberally and upbraideth not. The second is Moroni's promise in Moroni 10:4, "I would exhort you to ask of God if these things are not true, and if Ye would ask of God with a sincere heart, with real intent, having faith in Christ, he will manifest the truth of it unto you". So in short, I asked, he answered.

@Evil Brain
I guess I have a superhuman amount of credulity, or just simple faith. I don't know it all, but here is what I do know:
I have been a member of this church all my life in various parts of the world, and in every place the gospel was the same - - love of Christ, belief in Christ as our Saviour, love of family and love of fellowman. No one is perfect, and man falls short. Despite that, in the many places I have been I have never felt like a second class citizen. I have never been made to feel like an "inferior descendant of Cain", and I've never heard teachings to that effect.
I also know that in the 1840s two Black men were ordained to the priesthood (which is actually given to all worthy males 12 and above, not 13). Those men were Elijah Abel and Lewis Walker.
I also know that one of the women I admire most in history is a woman named Jane Manning James, a Black woman, who lived in the 1800s as well. She was one of the first Black saints. I admire her for her superhuman faith (or credulity) that inspired her to walk with the saints 100s of miles across country with her feet often bloodying the snow because of her belief in the restoration of God's gospel.
I know that today there are over 14 million members of this church, not very large I know, many of whom have at least a drop of Black blood, nevertheless they enjoy all of the blessing and fellowship of members regardless of race or nationality. They intermarry. There, to my experience, are no respector of persons among this church. All are welcome.
I can't tell you why all of that went down pre78. I don't pretend to have the answers, but I do know that there were other times the priesthood was withheld from a particular reason. The Old Testament describes those times.
So call it credulity...I just wanted to know if there were other members on this forum.

@Evil Brain
Let me amend what I said...there should be no respector of persons...I'm sure that in this church there are those just as in others. What I'm trying to convey is that for a church with such a supposedly racist past, I've never felt that and I live in the south!

I'm not sure about the other guy's but the ordination of Elijah Abel was declared null and void in 1908 by Joseph F Smith. Brigham Young declared that a black man marrying a white woman was a sin engrave that it could only be stoned for by "cutting off his head and spilling his blood on the ground".

The prophets, elders and church presidents gave various reasons for refusing to baptize blacks. These included but were not limited to:
- Black people were the cursed descendants of various biblical figures including Cain (Joseph Smith himself was quoted to have said this) and Canaan.
- Black people were not intelligent enough to receive the priesthood.
- Black people lacked the moral integrity required to join the priesthood.
- Black people had refused to side with God against Satan when the two of them were fighting during pre-existence and were thus cursed.

Joseph Fielding Smith wrote that blacks were "an inferior race" and that our black skin was "emblematic of eternal darkness". Before 1978, an elderly black man who had spent his entire life devoted to the Mormon faith, had less standings the church than any random 12 year old white boy. The only criteria for this was race, not deeds, not moral bible, not standing within the community, just race. No black man could earn the priesthood, no black man could hold an office.

And like I said earlier, the church has never repudiated any of this meaning that it's still the official church belief that you belong to an inferior race. The only thing that has changed is that they now allow you to join the priesthood. How nice of them.

Look, I don't expect that anything I have written here can convince you to change your religion. I don't even think you have to since everybody has the right to believe whatever crazy stuff they want. I just hope you keep in mind the recent history of the people you are fraternities with. Whenever you're with any of the older Mormons (basically anyone 50 or above), remember that they they were all adults at the time when their church was actively discriminating against black people and it didn't bother them enough to make them leave.

You seem to be convinced that they have all changed. I hope you're right. And if not, I hope you don't find out in a nasty way.

I'm not sure about the other guy's but the ordination of Elijah Abel was declared null and void in 1908 by Joseph F Smith. Brigham Young declared that a black man marrying a white woman was a sin engrave that it could only be stoned for by "cutting off his head and spilling his blood on the ground".

The prophets, elders and church presidents gave various reasons for refusing to baptize blacks. These included but were not limited to:
- Black people were the cursed descendants of various biblical figures including Cain (Joseph Smith himself was quoted to have said this) and Canaan.
- Black people were not intelligent enough to receive the priesthood.
- Black people lacked the moral integrity required to join the priesthood.
- Black people had refused to side with God against Satan when they were fighting during pre-existence and were thus cursed.

Joseph Fielding Smith wrote that blacks were "an inferior race" and that our black skin was "emblematic of eternal darkness". Before 1978, an elderly black man who had spent his entire life devoted to the Mormon faith had less standing in the church than any random 12 year old white boy. The only criteria for this was race, not deeds, not moral fibre, not standing within the community, just race. No black man could earn the priesthood, no black man could hold an office.

And like I said earlier, the church has never repudiated any of this meaning that it's still the official church belief that you belong to an inferior race. The only thing that has changed is that they now allow you to join the priesthood. How nice of them.

Look, I don't expect that anything I have written here can convince you to change your religion. I don't even think you have to since everybody has the right to believe whatever crazy stuff they want. I just hope you keep in mind the recent history of the people you are fraternizing with. Whenever you're with any of the older Mormons (basically anyone 50 or above), remember that they they were all adults at the time when their church was actively discriminating against black people and it didn't bother them enough to make them leave.

You seem to be convinced that they have all changed. I hope you're right. And if not, I hope you don't find out in a nasty way.

@ Evil Brain
As I stated earlier, I don't know why what happened pre'78 occurred, and as far as I'm aware people can only give speculative reasons why Blacks were denied the priesthood. But it is well known, not speculative, that other groups in the past and currently also did not receive priesthood ordination. Any member of a tribe not of Aaron or Levi - - were they evil tribalist? Or women today? The Lord does things in His own due time. Also, I think that any statement made by JF Smith or Young or anyone else for that matter must be qualified by the context in which they made it and the limited knowledge they had at the time. I wholeheartedly disagree that the official church belief is that I belong to an inferior race. Whether they make a specific public statement or not, the "official" church belief is found in the testimonies of church leaders and lay members who proclaim their love for all mankind irrespective of race thru their service and teachings. The way church members live their lives is repudiation enough for me.
I'm glad you don't expected to convince me to change my religion. It would be a fruitless effort. I strongly believe in the truthfulness of this gospel. I strongly believe it is the restoration of the very same gospel Christ organized when He walked the earth. I love Him and I love His gospel.
I have never felt second class or inferior. I'm not the only Black member of this church. There are 100s of 1000s if not millions Black members all over the world. We have personally wrestled with the "facts" you have been throwing at me. I find those "facts" to not hold water in face of the reality of what the members of this church do everyday and how the white members, even those over 50, live their lives. Despite what past issues people throw out, this church remains on of the fastest growing churches with a substantially number of Blacks joining, especially in W. Africa. Blacks and whites are marrying all the time with less disturbance than from the rest of the world. Multiracial children have been raised in healthy, loving relationships. Many of my friends, who are multiracial, are products of unions from the '70s
For a group that considers Blacks inferior, this church exerts an awful lot of humanitarian aid in Africa. Our Relief Society is the oldest and largest women's organization that provides charitable relief to all irrespective of color. The church's humanitarian aid organization is one of the world's largest often the first in and last out. We send aid to Africa, dig wells in Africa for clean water, fight AIDS, set up employment centers and perpetual education funds. That's a lot of effort for people who we considered "cursed from Cain" and inferior.
So I'm fully aware of who I fraternize with - - wonderful, loving, goodhearted people. Many of them are over 50. I have slept in their homes, eaten at their table, and dated with sons without a backwards glance from them. So while I don't have all the answers to the "priesthood ban" and early church race relations. I do know that it is not so...black and white. The scriptures say by their fruits you will know them. I judge based on what is going on now...and considering the present day church as it stands now, you will be hardpressed to convince me that it is an evil, racist organization.
Now, back to the original purpose of the thread...I guess their are no Naija on NL. Thank you.

I meant Naija LDS

SewaG.R.I.T.S:
@ Evil Brain
As I stated earlier, I don't know why what happened pre'78 occurred, and as far as I'm aware people can only give speculative reasons why Blacks were denied the priesthood. But it is well known, not speculative, that other groups in the past and currently also did not receive priesthood ordination. Any member of a tribe not of Aaron or Levi - - were they evil tribalist? Or women today? The Lord does things in His own due time. Also, I think that any statement made by JF Smith or Young or anyone else for that matter must be qualified by the context in which they made it and the limited knowledge they had at the time. I wholeheartedly disagree that the official church belief is that I belong to an inferior race. Whether they make a specific public statement or not, the "official" church belief is found in the testimonies of church leaders and lay members who proclaim their love for all mankind irrespective of race thru their service and teachings. The way church members live their lives is repudiation enough for me.
I'm glad you don't expected to convince me to change my religion. It would be a fruitless effort. I strongly believe in the truthfulness of this gospel. I strongly believe it is the restoration of the very same gospel Christ organized when He walked the earth. I love Him and I love His gospel.
I have never felt second class or inferior. I'm not the only Black member of this church. There are 100s of 1000s if not millions Black members all over the world. We have personally wrestled with the "facts" you have been throwing at me. I find those "facts" to not hold water in face of the reality of what the members of this church do everyday and how the white members, even those over 50, live their lives. Despite what past issues people throw out, this church remains on of the fastest growing churches with a substantially number of Blacks joining, especially in W. Africa. Blacks and whites are marrying all the time with less disturbance than from the rest of the world. Multiracial children have been raised in healthy, loving relationships. Many of my friends, who are multiracial, are products of unions from the '70s
For a group that considers Blacks inferior, this church exerts an awful lot of humanitarian aid in Africa. Our Relief Society is the oldest and largest women's organization that provides charitable relief to all irrespective of color. The church's humanitarian aid organization is one of the world's largest often the first in and last out. We send aid to Africa, dig wells in Africa for clean water, fight AIDS, set up employment centers and perpetual education funds. That's a lot of effort for people who we considered "cursed from Cain" and inferior.
So I'm fully aware of who I fraternize with - - wonderful, loving, goodhearted people. Many of them are over 50. I have slept in their homes, eaten at their table, and dated with sons without a backwards glance from them. So while I don't have all the answers to the "priesthood ban" and early church race relations. I do know that it is not so...black and white. The scriptures say by their fruits you will know them. I judge based on what is going on now...and considering the present day church as it stands now, you will be hardpressed to convince me that it is an evil, racist organization.
Now, back to the original purpose of the thread...I guess their are no Naija on NL. Thank you.

See this slave. I personally hope that you are not black.


Your first statement is a lie. The curse of ham doctrine was the reason why blacks were considered inferior in your LDS church. They believed that blacks were cursed to be servants of men. The reason is not speculative.


Giving aid to Africa does not change anything. The ctholic church also gives aid to Africa and encourages a good community among catholics. It doesnt change the fact that the catholic church is a pedophile cover up organisation or the fact that the catholic church is a corrupt and oppressive institution.



People like you sicken me. You disgust me. You only look at the nice things and close your eyes to the evils of your organisation/church.

I havent even started talking about Joseph smith.

@Macdaddy
Love u too :-)

SewaG.R.I.T.S:
@Macdaddy
Love u too :-)

Wow.....such an insightful comment on the LDS church!

As usual, when faced with truth, dishonest christians either deny or avoid the issue.


I rest my case.

MacDaddy01:



Wow.....such an insightful comment on the LDS church!

As usual, when faced with truth, dishonest christians either deny or avoid the issue.


I rest my case.

come on man give the girl a break. Don't you know how sweet it is living in a religious delusional bubble.

SewaG.R.I.T.S:
Would love to here your conversion story How long have you been a member? Do you hold a calling? Would love to know you

I hear the LDS encourages polygamy, on what scriptural or even rational basis do they justify this practise?

SewaG.R.I.T.S:
Would love to here your conversion story How long have you been a member? Do you hold a calling? Would love to know you

the LDS say that God is "flash and bone" and can be "seen/appears to we human" if we want him to and many of your members claim to have personally seen him.

Can you shade more light on this?

Pastor Kun:

I hear the LDS encourages polygamy, on what scriptural or even rational basis do they justify this practise?

The main body of Mormons no longer practice polygamy, though they did in the past.

The practice was started by their founder Joseph Smith who is reported to have had between 42 and 48 wives. Smith however married them in secret and publicly denied being a polygamist to his grave. The church started practicing "plural marriage" publicly in 1852 and Smith's successor Brigham Young had 51 wives, while other church leaders had over 60.

This obviously had serious consequences for the Mormon community. The church elders were basically reduced to a bunch of lecherous old men who abused their position to bed as many women as possible. Any attractive, young Mormon girl was immediately put under heavy pressure to marry one apostle or the other. Many women were coerced or deceived into entering such marriages. Underage girls were regularly married to old men. And the church elders were regularly getting "revelations" from god about how so and so's fine daughter was their "spiritual wife". In addition, the practice led to a serious shortage of women meaning that young men and boys couldn't find wives and and were often driven out of the community by the elders in order to reduce competition.

Eventually, due to widespread public revulsion, the US federal government started cracking down on the practice, criminalizing it, jailing many church members and driving them underground. The Mormons who until then had been in total control of the government of the state of Utah began to lose those political power because many of their leaders were in jail, and those outside were afraid to practice openly.

The Mormons however refused to abandon the practice until the federal government threatened to essentially invade Utah and seize all their temples if they didn't stop breaking the law. At that point, the then church president, Willford Woodruff received a revelation that god had changed his mind and was now totally against polygamy. And that was how the church was saved.

Nowadays, only some fringe fundamentalist Mormon sects still practice polygamy. The main LDS church regularly excommunicates all members who do. But just like racism, they haven't repudiated the practice, they still revere polygamist former leaders like Smith and Young, and they have left the door open to practicing it again in the future.

[url]en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mormonism_and_polygamy[/url]

manmustwac: come on man give the girl a break. Don't you know how sweet it is living in a religious delusional bubble.

@MacDaddy01
What case did you bring up and how was your comment even designed to elicit insight? it appeared that your purpose was simply to derail a thread with a simple question by devolving into name calling and vitriol. I do what I have been taught to do - - show love. There is really nothing more to say. you regurgitate sensational "facts" from Wikipedia and other online "sources" (I use those terms loosely). I live this life and I know what my life and my religious choice entails. The Scriptures say by the fruits you shall know what is right or good, and I have witnessed a lot of good fruit from this church as well as many other faiths around the world. All of your facts relate to the past. I judge this church by the present. All of the good works I related earlier relate to the present. I'm not sure where you or Manmustwac live, but I am in the US. I'm sure you are more than aware of this country's racist past. Using your logic all Blacks should shun this country (and any western country for that matter) because of its past. A past that has yet to be repudiated officially, and still in many states have Jim Crow era laws on the books. How about Japanese Americans for being rounded up by this country during WWII just because of ethnicity? it's very easy to tear someone down, spew hate, and rant of things you do not know but have read from various biased web sites. I find no honor in that. I know what I believe to be true. I have studied it out in my mind, and have a firm testimony of it's truth. anyone who would like to know more, I invite you to visit www.lds.org for more information.

@Pastor Kun
It is a very common misconception that the LDS (Mormons) encourage polygamy. We do not and those who do are subject to excommunication.
In the early days of the church it was revealed that plural marriage was authorized under certain conditions. So it wasn't widespread among all members. It came up as a question as to why the Lord justified certain Old Testament prophets to have many wives and concubines. Joseph Smith first entered into plural marriage in 1835, and was married to 29 women. In these marriages, the men and women were asked to pray and receive divine confirmation before doing so. In a special address in 1852 these were the reasons given for plural marriage: 1) to multiply and replenished the earth; 2) to take part in the promises made to Abraham; 3) because in ancient times polygamy was more common than monogamy 4) to give good homes to many spirit children of God who were waiting to come to earth. Less than 20% of the members practised polygamy and in 1890 an official declaration was made to stop the practise. So it's been a long time since that has been allowed in our church. Hope that answers your question.

^^^^Its amazing how you're able to rationalize this stuff. Don't you have any doubts at all? Don't you have that nagging suspicion that Smith and co were just using their positions to get laid with as many women as possible? What happened to your natural skepticism? Or do you think it's right to unquestioningly obey and accept whatever the church teaches no matter how ridiculous it may seem on the surface?

SewaG.R.I.T.S:
@MacDaddy01
What case did you bring up and how was your comment even designed to elicit insight? it appeared that your purpose was simply to derail a thread with a simple question by devolving into name calling and vitriol. I do what I have been taught to do - - show love. There is really nothing more to say. you regurgitate sensational "facts" from Wikipedia and other online "sources" (I use those terms loosely). I live this life and I know what my life and my religious choice entails. The Scriptures say by the fruits you shall know what is right or good, and I have witnessed a lot of good fruit from this church as well as many other faiths around the world. All of your facts relate to the past. I judge this church by the present. All of the good works I related earlier relate to the present. I'm not sure where you or Manmustwac live, but I am in the US. I'm sure you are more than aware of this country's racist past. Using your logic all Blacks should shun this country (and any western country for that matter) because of its past. A past that has yet to be repudiated officially, and still in many states have Jim Crow era laws on the books. How about Japanese Americans for being rounded up by this country during WWII just because of ethnicity? it's very easy to tear someone down, spew hate, and rant of things you do not know but have read from various biased web sites. I find no honor in that. I know what I believe to be true. I have studied it out in my mind, and have a firm testimony of it's truth. anyone who would like to know more, I invite you to visit www.lds.org for more information.

You claimed that the racism of the past in your church was speculative. I did not derail the thread, I corrected your slave negro lie. The racism was a doctrine, not speculative. It was institutional.

Concerning the racism in America,

1) America is not a church claiming that it is a place of eternal truth and morality. America is a country

2) American govt has been vocal about apologising about the atrocities of the past. (Even though there is still racism today). Compared to the LDS whioh maintains that blacks were cursed until God gave a revelation to change their doctrine.

3) America is a country and a mass exodus of blacks has too many logistical problems. Where would all of them go? 30 million people? How would they fit in to foriegn cultures? What about the hole left in America by their exodus? etc.




Part of the reason why black are pushed to an inferior status is their slave mentality of worshipping a religion that was used to enslave them. Some white people look at us disappointments. We blacks have potential just like any other race but we waste on anti-black religion.


Excuse me but am I to believe that God chose a white man (Joseph Smith) to be a messenger while my black folks where second class citizens? Am I to believe that God chose racists as his messengers?


Even look at the bigger picture of christianity. God chose only prophets from the middle east in the bible. Am I to believe that blacks descended from Jewish people of Adam and Eve when it is the other way around? When the first people on earth are actaully from Afirca as proven by science?


If you truly believe in a just God, then he would have chosen prophets and treated humans equally. Where are the Asian prophets? Where are the Latino prophets from South Amnerica?


I choose to be a humanist and see people as equal, rather than submit to a racist God with racist messenger from Moses (Genocide of Midianites) to Jesus (came for the lost Sheep of isreal) to Joseph Smith (Dont care about blacks).


Ask yourself about the guy called Joseph Smith and God. LDS is an American religion. America is only 236 years old. God vhose to be quiet for over 1,700 years after the death of Jesus christ to chose the a dishonest man called Joseph Smith who engaged in polygamy with married women.


Concerning blacks, any black man that sumbits to such a racist ideology that no black african man or woman has been worthy in the eye of God from Moses to Joseph Smith is a man challenged with inferiority complex. A slave to a racist ideology.

SewaG.R.I.T.S:
@Pastor Kun
It is a very common misconception that the LDS (Mormons) encourage polygamy. We do not and those who do are subject to excommunication.
In the early days of the church it was revealed that plural marriage was authorized under certain conditions. So it wasn't widespread among all members. It came up as a question as to why the Lord justified certain Old Testament prophets to have many wives and concubines. Joseph Smith first entered into plural marriage in 1835, and was married to 29 women. In these marriages, the men and women were asked to pray and receive divine confirmation before doing so. In a special address in 1852 these were the reasons given for plural marriage: 1) to multiply and replenished the earth; 2) to take part in the promises made to Abraham; 3) because in ancient times polygamy was more common than monogamy 4) to give good homes to many spirit children of God who were waiting to come to earth. Less than 20% of the members practised polygamy and in 1890 an official declaration was made to stop the practise. So it's been a long time since that has been allowed in our church. Hope that answers your question.

Thanx for the response but I am quite aware that some LDS members still practise polygamy.

@Pastor Kun
You are welcome. I know that the FRLDS (or something like that) practice polygamy still. But any member of the LDS church who practices it and the church knows will ne excommunicated. I don't doubt that you are aware of some members who practice it, but I can gaurantee that it is not encouraged, taught, or condoned by the church. Of course man has his agency, or free will, and may choose his actions irrespective of teachings. Our church teaches the Law of Chastity, which teaches that one should not have sex outside of marriage yet I know people who disregarded that commandment, and lied to church authorities to avoid excommunication. So who knows. I can't say anything about the people you know. All I can do is share what I know about our doctrine and beliefs :-)

@Truthislight
Yes, we do believe that God as well as Jesus Christ are beings of flesh and blood. We also believe that their have been various times when one or the other or both have revealed them selves to man. I have never had such privilege, and I'm sure that most members will say that as well. But I have felt their presence and their love in my life. I have also received revelations from them concerning my life and my family. It has been a great blessing to have such inspiration as I try to raise kids in this world.

SewaG.R.I.T.S:
@Truthislight
Yes, we do believe that God as well as Jesus Christ are beings of flesh and blood. We also believe that their have been various times when one or the other or both have revealed them selves to man. I have never had such privilege, and I'm sure that most members will say that as well. But I have felt their presence and their love in my life. I have also received revelations from them concerning my life and my family. It has been a great blessing to have such inspiration as I try to raise kids in this world.

fine and good, you did not denied that fact about the LDS.

Pls, how did you arrived at this teachin/central doctrine of yours?
What is the source/basis?
Thanks.

Mormon nairalanders let's meet here
https://www.nairaland.com/1221602/mormons-members-lds-lets-meet